Waiting for a Decision

[xxoo]

I don't consider her a friend, because I'm in no position to be her friend. But she has isolated herself to the point where MM was her only lifeline. Due to my presence in their lives, she has started leaning on me more than him. It sucks, but I won't shut her out, either. I've been trying to get her to reconnect with her friends.

 

Cut her off. If she doesn't have you to talk to, she'll find someone else.

 

I agree with everything woinlove said, esp about the extent you've gone to deluding this poor woman. Is the reason you do not cut her off because you worry that change will make her suspect an affair?

 

carrie, allowing her to attach herself to you is cruel. This is not something that "just happened", but rather something that you allowed to happen, and possibly encouraged. The inappropriate nature should have been very glaringly obvious, and you should have prevented it. It worries me that you can't see that.

 

Are you in some counseling? I think it would help for you to get some objective, professional input about this situation.

[woinlove]

See, you say BW is in complete denial because of how she reacted to her H finally telling her about himself at least six months ago:

 

At least six months ago, he finally told her how much he'd changed. This was while he was doing some household project, and she was just hanging out, and she finally just listened. He outlined how his entire belief system had been shattered, including his faith and views about everything. He told her this over the course of 2-3 hours. He said he never blamed her for not being there because she has her own stuff to deal with, but that he finally understood how much he'd changed on a fundamental level. He told her I was the first person he could confide in because I wasn't in the situation. (Really, she's in it, but not even close to how much he is, and should have been there for him. She NEVER helped him through any part of it, but he didn't want her to feel guilty, since he was already halfway out the door, so to speak).

 

And she never brought it up again. She pretended the next day that everything was just fine. That was when he truly decided it was over, though he knew it a few months before that talk. She is seriously deluded. I equate her to Brie on Desperate Housewives...not because she's the homemaker (far from it), but because she's that unwilling to confront any problems head-on. They had a huge blow-out a month ago in which they both recognized that the marriage was failing or already failed, and the same night, she was smiling and being sweet and pretending it never happened. She is in complete denial.

 

 

But, this is how you described how you two were working to delude BW into believing a false reality about her H five months ago:

 

So far we have successfully pulled off the "friendship" front without suspicion. They both have prepaid cell phones, so there are no records on that end. My phone is password protected and nobody knows the password, which I change frequently anyway. He deletes texts as soon as he sends and receives them, and she'd never guess his email or other passwords for anything online. We're both extremely vigilant.

 

My only concern is that this will pique her interest and maybe make her wonder. She would be extremely hard-pressed to actually catch him doing anything wrong, and I really can't imagine how that would happen if we remain careful.

 

Mix this -- him apparently opening up to her while pulling off the biggest deception of all, a double betrayal by what appear to be the two closest people in the world to her -- together with the other things you've told us about you spending time with the two of them together, and it's a wonder this woman has not ended up in mental health facility. Two months ago you described her as:

 

She is a wonderful and very sweet and caring woman who has shown signs of strength, but only with his support...so far.

 

Now, she sounds like she is slipping into alcoholism, escapism, withdrawal,... with no signs of strength. How much longer are you two planning to push her along this path you've been plotting for her of keeping up the "friendship" front while trying to kill her marriage? Oh, I know you said the M died years ago, but it didn't really, still hasn't in fact, and does literally have to be killed you know. Usually best done with some frank talk and visits to lawyers. And I don't mean the secret lawyer stuff you talked about a while ago. I mean not so secret lawyer stuff.

Edited August 26, 2011 by woinlove

[woinlove]

heartinlove, I'm sorry for all my tj on your thread, but a few of us feel there is a potential disaster looming with how carrie is describing the current situation of her MM and his BW and some of it is coming out on your thread.

 

heartinlove, I know you are in pain, feeling like you are waiting for MM to make a decision and need feedback and support. I hope you can find the strength and resolve to take care of yourself, find some pleasure in things outside of MM. The more I hear of MM on LS, the less I think they are worth waiting for, but I really don't know much of your MM. I do know making a decision one way or the other is only the start of what is usually a long, painful path. When your heart is tied up with a MM, it is difficult to find joy elsewhere, but every attempt to do so is, I think, useful and rewarded.

[MissBee]

You know the depth of her problems, and, through poor boundaries on your part, you've allowed her to come to depend on you and trust you.

This is codependence to the extreme--not only rescuing the helpless MM, but also his alcoholic wife!

 

Have you considered that your willingness to listen to her rant for hours (after all the others that care about her have cut her off--STOPPED enabling) meets her needs and prevents her from being forced to seek true help? And your willingness to be with MM does the same for him?

 

You see yourself as her lifeline....but your actions could be her undoing.. .

 

carrie, allowing her to attach herself to you is cruel. This is not something that "just happened", but rather something that you allowed to happen, and possibly encouraged. The inappropriate nature should have been very glaringly obvious, and you should have prevented it. It worries me that you can't see that.

 

Are you in some counseling? I think it would help for you to get some objective, professional input about this situation.

I completely agree!

 

I mean it with zero malice. If a friend of mine were telling me this same story, I'd say the same thing. It is a very strange dynamic and no one can convince me that this is somehow helpful and healthy.

 

I wish you the best of luck but quite frankly can't wrap my head around having an affair with a man and also being his wife's therapist....it's all too much and maybe I am less of a woman or something but I like things to be far less complex in my world.

 

I am having a headache thinking about how you guys will eventually ever be together in the open, how will you detach from this bizarre relationship you have with the wife and have it be all good when you guys announce your relationship? I mean...it's one thing for an OW to pop up, whom the BS doesn't know from a can of paint, but to have her confidant resurface after the ending of her M as her husband's new gf, or upon a DDAY, is really weird. If she is that unstable and has no friends, I cannot imagine how that whole scenario would play out in a manner that is not a mess. She has not done anything to improve herself or be stronger, you haven't helped her one bit and you even feeling the need to "help" and "not turn her away" is very strange in itself...therefore I am not sure what the ultimate goal is, as this doesn't seem to be something that is improving overtime.

 

I have no reason to demonize you...I am truly just curious about the situation and how you plan to maneuver it later on and how you currently maneuver it and not feel like you're going insane. It is too much for me and yes there is no convincing me that some situations are just plain and simply dysfunctional, regardless of how they're spun...it's not a judgment of you as an individual but commentary on what looks to me like a clear case of an effed up scenario. Some take offense to people saying that OW and others should perhaps examine their behavior and focus on themselves and see if there may be something unhealthy going on, stemming from something within them....but I will always advise that, as I have yet to see anyone go wrong by being critical of their own actions and trying to figure themselves out and I have seen a lot of women come on LS who indeed are behaving in ways that reveal issues that go beyond "I so happen to be inlove with a MM".

Edited August 27, 2011 by MissBee

[carrie999]

Now, she sounds like she is slipping into alcoholism, escapism, withdrawal,... with no signs of strength. How much longer are you two planning to push her along this path you've been plotting for her of keeping up the "friendship" front while trying to kill her marriage? Oh, I know you said the M died years ago, but it didn't really, still hasn't in fact, and does literally have to be killed you know. Usually best done with some frank talk and visits to lawyers. And I don't mean the secret lawyer stuff you talked about a while ago. I mean not so secret lawyer stuff.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about. You really don't.

[woinlove]

You have no idea what you're talking about. You really don't.

 

I'm just going by what you have posted on LS, as explained in bold below.

 

 

Now, she sounds like she is slipping into alcoholism, escapism, withdrawal,... with no signs of strength.

 

This is the impression your recent posts describing BW give of her.

 

How much longer are you two planning to push her along this path you've been plotting for her of keeping up the "friendship" front while trying to kill her marriage?

 

I'm referring to the path you've described here that you are taking BW on. You've posted that the plan is not to let BW know about the A even through MM hopes to end the M. You also posted about how involved you are in their interactions, down to MM needing to inform you in advance if he thinks he might have to do more than kiss his W or sleep beside her during this process.

 

Oh, I know you said the M died years ago, but it didn't really, still hasn't in fact, and does literally have to be killed you know.

 

You have said that the BW doesn't want to get divorced, and will, in fact, be hurt by it even without finding out about the A. If one spouse wants out of the M while the other one doesn't, the one who wants out has to do something to end the M. In such cases, one can kill the M by either convincing the spouse to want a divorce or by going ahead and serving divorce papers. So far your posts have only suggested an extremely indirect approach to the former, but perhaps MM is doing more to end his M than you have posted here.

 

 

Usually best done with some frank talk and visits to lawyers. And I don't mean the secret lawyer stuff you talked about a while ago. I mean not so secret lawyer stuff.

 

I'm referring to the fact that one needs to (or their lawyer needs to) tell the spouse in order to divorce and usually a lawyer would draw up divorce papers. You said MM researched divorce laws and lawyers and you enquired about alimony laws, but this won't end end the M legally. The BW will need to know she is being divorced.

[RainDown]

I'm not going to comment on the morality/dysfunction of this situation because others seem to have that well in hand.

 

To return to the topic of the post, which was about waiting and timelines and such, I'm a little bit puzzled about why there is pressure that he leave in August, October, December or anytime really. The reality is that even if he does leave the marital home in October you can't be with him for several years anyway. You're his wife's friend and a close friend of the family, it appears. It's not like you and MM can just move in together, get married, and live happily ever after.

 

It's going to be a few years before his wife gets over all this and if your plan is that she never find out you're having an affair with her husband you're going to have to continue to hide and lie for a long, long time. What does it matter if he leaves in October? The only thing that will change is that he doesn't live in the same house anymore. You'll still be the hidden mistress regardless.

[whichwayisup]

Originally Posted by carrie999

I don't consider her a friend, because I'm in no position to be her friend. But she has isolated herself to the point where MM was her only lifeline. Due to my presence in their lives, she has started leaning on me more than him. It sucks, but I won't shut her out, either. I've been trying to get her to reconnect with her friends.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Your situation is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Someone, or maybe ALL of you are going to end up 6 feet under when she realizes wtf been going on right under her nose. People do crazy things when pushed past their emotional limit and what you and her husband are doing to her, well, it's just plain wrong. You're both making a total fool of her and you may think you're doing something kind by being her friend, you're actually not. You and him are the devil (to her) in disguise yet she just doesn't know that (yet)so when the truth comes out, be prepared. Crimes of passion and this one could end up on the news one day, sadly.

[SunsetRed]

Hey Heartinlove, I havent read the following posts, so I just wondered if your MM really did leave as he said he was going to or did some "unforseen thing happen" and he needs to stay.

 

My heart goes out to you. My xMM recently came back to me w a story that he was finally in a position to leave. I actually called BullShoot on him and guess what, he didnt prove me wrong. He's still there and always will be.

 

My theory continues, that all these MMs are full of self centered BS. Almost every post on this forum reiterates that. There are so many similarites, its as if we're all dating the same guy.

[heartinlove]

Hey Heartinlove, I havent read the following posts, so I just wondered if your MM really did leave as he said he was going to or did some "unforseen thing happen" and he needs to stay.

 

My heart goes out to you. My xMM recently came back to me w a story that he was finally in a position to leave. I actually called BullShoot on him and guess what, he didnt prove me wrong. He's still there and always will be.

 

My theory continues, that all these MMs are full of self centered BS. Almost every post on this forum reiterates that. There are so many similarites, its as if we're all dating the same guy.

 

Here is my update. i havent been on here in a while so I havent read through the latest posts. I thought I would post again once there was movement in some direction. Just to clarify, I haven't seen his wife in years and we were never close friends. Also, she knows he had an affair with me. He told her himself months back.

 

So, Im pretty sure that most of you would have saw this coming. He was preparing to tell her the marriage was over this weekend. For the last few months we have talked of plans of our life together, he calls me every moment he has free, sees me every moment he can. I told him the only way I am comfortable with this is if he is clear he is leaving. He reassured me all the time, said he was waiting for the right time. There were certain events in his family he was waiting until they passed. I encouraged him to tell the truth. He believed he needed to wait until the right moment. I believed him.

 

And then last night she finds an email from me that he forgot to close, and everything came out. He told her he was no longer in love with her, he told her he had feelings for me and loved me. I doubt he told her he's in love with me or that he's been planning his life with me all along. Bottom line she fought for the marriage and said he needed to decide right then. She wanted to be on the phone when he told me, but at least he had the heart not to do that to me. So, i got a call this morning with him telling me that he has chosen the marriage. He feels he didn't give the marriage a fair chance, didn't work on it, because he still was connected to me, and that he owes it to his children to give her a chance.

 

At this point, I am just pissed. This is beyond. How can someone plan there life with another, and then when the moment comes just cave. I would have more respect for his choice if I believed he told her the whole truth. He has completely at this point devastated my life, the woman he calls his best friend, and honestly probably devastated his wife's heart to the point the marriage will never recover. Why??? Why take it to that level with me, if deep down he knew he couldn't really do it. Why do that to his wife, when he knew he couldn't really leave? How could someone not know themselves? I really believed we would be sharing our lives together now. I believe that he believed it too, but at the end of the day he should have know he couldn't choose it. He should have known that breaking up his childrens family was beyond his ability regardless of where his heart is. And thats what's so f---d up. I know he's in love with me. No doubt. Affairs hurt everyone. I know tonight that all three of us are in pain, we are all hurting.

[twinsmom]

Wow, this is the same story I've seen told on this forum time and time and time again..It makes me so glad that I'm no longer feeling the same way. I mourned the loss of my MM for years, but I've finally moved past it, thank goodness...and you will, too.

[heartinlove]

Wow, this is the same story I've seen told on this forum time and time and time again..It makes me so glad that I'm no longer feeling the same way. I mourned the loss of my MM for years, but I've finally moved past it, thank goodness...and you will, too.

 

How did you get past it?

[SunsetRed]

Aww Heart, my Heart still goes out to you. My situation went down almost exactly like yours did. Long story short, they'd been separated for 3 years and the wife knew he had been with other women. when she found out he had an actual gf, she wanted him to move back. He jumped at the chance and in a matter of one day, he went from planning a life w me to moving back to the wife who'd thrown him out 3 years earlier.

 

That was last year. Now that she's ready to throw him out again, he's sniffing around me again. He's disrespected me way too much for me to go back and I know if I did, it would turn out nasty for me. I've got job and career agenda to focus on now and have no time to be depressed.

 

Anyway, dont beat yourself up for anything. All of us on the forum have made less than perfect choices concerning our self esteem, Just pick yourself up and move on. And no matter what he says, unless he shows up at your door with divorce papers dont even entertain the thought of being w him again. The only thing he's good for is more lies.

[heartinlove]

Heart, I can understand how you are feeling... but from someone who has been around on the face of the earth for a while with many scenarios to back up this statement - Go NC now rather than later.

 

Your talking with him every day, like a "sounding board" is ridiculous and YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WILL BE HURT by that even more if he does not leave his W. Staying in touch with him while all this is happening must be ripping your apart. Either way, he's gonna be just fine, he has you and his W and I gather the W has no idea he is planning on leaving. Soooooooooo when he tells W he is leaving there will be an inevitable scene, and begging and promises etc and he will end up staying so they can 'work on their marriage'.

 

Please, Heart, don't waste your precious lovely time anymore... not sayin' there is not a possibility that he actually WILL leave... but let him man up and figure it all out on his own without you to lean on. He needs to stand on his own here on this one. Tell him you have to step back for your own sanity and ask him to call you when he moves out.

 

Yeah yeah yeah I know, easier said than done, but no one ever said doing what you have to is easy. You have to quit talking with him! Protect yourself!!!

 

Should have taken this advice. I am the one who got dessimated and blindsided from believing him. Right now, I wish I did protect myself. This feels brutal.

[heartinlove]

Thanks SunsetRed for the encouragement.

 

Its the middle of the night and I am in so much pain. This hurts in a way that I just can't even believe. How do you go from truly believing you are going to spend your life with someone, from being so connected with him to in a moment having everything change on me and now having to let go of him completely and not even talk to him. I am trying to be strong, but I am so sad, my heart feels so ripped out by this. I really believed him, and now I don't know how to let go and feel ok.

[twinsmom]

Time..that's how I got past it. That is the best advice I can offer you. Also, in the ensuing years that it has taken me to get over it, I realized that the person I thought was my "soulmate" was not all that. Once the "fog" lifted, I realized that I would never have been happy with him long-term. He proved himself to be cowardly and a classic "cake-eater", and that realization is what finally convinced me that I was wasting my emotions on someone who didn't deserve it. It took me a long time, to the tune of 3 years, but I'm there now, thank goodness.

[mzdolphin]

I'm copying this from the book The Language of Letting Go. It really applies to this and so many situations the OW finds herself in.

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There are those who deliberately set out to sway us, to control and manipulate us through cheap talk! They know, they fully understand our vulnerability to a few well-timed words! Break through your naivete. They know what they're doing. They understand their impact on us!

 

We do not have to give such power to words, even though the words may be just what we want and need to hear, even though they sound so good, even though the words seem to stop the pain.

 

Sooner or later, we will come to realize that if behavior doesn't match a person's words, we are allowing ourselves to be controlled, manipulated, and deceived. Sooner or later, we will come to realize that talk is cheap, unless the person's behavior matches it.

 

We can come to demand congruency in the behavior and the words of those around us. We can learn to not be manipulated, or swayed, by cheap talk.

 

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