Never romantically attracted

[Turtles]

Hello LS. It has been a wonderful inspiration to read your stories these past few months. Now I fear I must add my own.

 

My partner of 9 years came up with the following revelation a few nights ago:

I am not sure I have ever been romantically attracted to anyone. I don’t think I was ever romantically attracted to you.

 

I did not say anything at the time – it was late, we were both tired, didn’t want to get into an argument in hot blood without having a chance to digest this first. Now I know you are getting this out of context, and I can spin this a few different ways, but have a hard time finding one that is not hurtful. We came back over it a few days later, had a big argument, but she never apologized for the statement (in fact, it has now become my fault, for trying to talk when we were both in bed and she was sleepy – yes, it was late, yes, I knew she was sleepy, but still, ain't no reason to try and rip out my testicles). I am still not sure exactly what she meant by “romantically attracted”, I think maybe she meant sexually. She has very low libido, I am about average for a man my age I believe, sex has been a contentious point in our relationship for some time, but not major, what bothers me much more than low sex is the lack of displays of affection like hugging, kissing - she never does, when I mention that to her she says I am not touchy feely.

 

So, I started packing my bags. Cue in tears, guilt trip, how could you waste all these years of my life, I wanted someone to be there to love me when I die, etc. Where is the cyanide when you need it, right?

 

Anyway, I do have a huge guilt trip about leaving her already, because she was with me when her son died (he was a junkie and managed to get himself killed – I am reasonably sure it would have happened regardless but she feels guilty she was not there to help him, and I feel guilty I kept her away – it’s a mess. Happened 5 years ago but still very raw for her. In fact yesterday she ended up mostly crying about him, not my leaving, maybe I am even jealous of that, though I am loathe to admit it. She has refused to go to therapy for it)

 

So anyway, I am still here, bags unpacked. I do love her dearly, but she drives me crazy. We fight quite a bit I guess, about once a month. The most frustrating part about them is that there is never a resolution to any conflict, she just has a “I’m right – you’re wrong” attitude, she'll fight tooth and nail for the smallest crap, I have a more easy-going attitude so I end up giving up all the ground in frustration. The main take away from yesterday’s argument:

Her: I am happy the way things are, why can’t you learn to be content with what you have?

Me: I am happy, but I think there is room for improvement – every relationship needs to keep growing, otherwise it’ll contract

Her: No, that’s greedy, a relationship needs to stay where it is at, otherwise it is unstable

 

So it comes down to a fundamental difference at the way we look at life in general. For me it is a succession of goals. There is some rest in between when we reach a major milestone but I believe there is always a way to get better. For her once we have achieved a major goal we need to settle down and just enjoy it the way it is. Mmm well now that I write it down like this my way does sound a bit needy. But hers sounds like death. What do you think?

[OnyxSnowfall]

It sounds like she should probably seek outside help to deal with the passing of her son --- I can't imagine dealing with that... I believe I would fall completely into pieces that could never be put back together.

 

There could be a number of reasons why she's doubting her "romantic" attraction --- a number of reasons why her libido is low --- it could be possible she's afraid of enjoying life and moving on from the death of her son with you because of the guilt or it could be other things --- any combination of them. Honestly, I wouldn't take her comment all that personally, if you are otherwise treating her decently.

 

Her "i'm right you're wrong attitude" is an underdeveloped part of her... I don't think it bodes well for any types of relationships. The fact is, we're all wrong at times and sometimes there's no right or wrong so it helps to be more conscious of other peoples perspectives and feelings but... that's something she may have to be willing to open up to.

 

As for your question.

 

I find it more difficult to appreciate things as they are --- simplicity is a secret to satisfaction... being grateful for where you are, what you have... doesn't mean that the mind has to reach atrophy and stagnant. Aspirations and always striving for more doesn't really create inner peace. Some people don't care about inner peace.

 

Inner peace doesn't mean growth ends though.

Sometimes it actually is what is necessary to grow.

Edited August 11, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[Turtles]

Thank you.. it's hard because we can't talk. It's like we literally speak different languages. The other day I had a pack of hotdog buns in my hands, told her we had hamburger buns downstairs and she blew a fuse - actually accused me of lying, couldn't I see those were hotdog buns and not hamburger, etc. Lying, about hamburger buns, for Pete's sake. I thought it was a joke until she followed through with a 3-day silence treatment.

 

You can imagine how that translates to discussion about less trivial subjects. I can say, she is frustrated & angry at the world, she is lashing out, it's not really my fault, I need to be there to help her, etc. And I have. But I feel like I am living in an asylum. Sorry for all the venting. I used to keep all that inside. She said, why don't you ever express your feelings? I looked in, and this is what I saw.

 

I know she is unhappy with that too. Oh, she'll put up a front and say that all is fine and could I please stop rocking the boat, but it still comes out. I just don't know, if she hates me that much, why she won't let me go?

[TigerCub]

Hey Turtles

 

(I love your name - I love turtles) mmm, i love turtles

 

One thing that occurred to me...it may be totally off, but ...

The fact that she's never felt romantically attracted to someone - do you think that maybe in her childhood she suffered from sexual abuse?

I'm only asking because a very dear friend of mine was molested as a child and she's never been to therapy for it (i'm one of 2 people that even know about this) - but as a result, she shields herself from getting romantically/sexually attracted to people, or even giving people a chance to really fall in love with them.

 

I know that with your wife, its not quite like that (she's with you, and had been intimate - at least to have a child), but considering the fact that she's never sought help for dealing with her son's death, maybe (if she was abused) she never sought help for that either.

 

Do you know if that's the case? Do you think it might be? Would you be afraid of asking her?

 

As for the rest of it. She is obviously angry and doesn't quite know how to deal with things, but that doesn't say that its ok to make you her emotional punching bag!

 

She says you need to change so that you're content with the relationship that you have - that doesn't sound fair to me.

 

If you're not happy in the relationship, these things need to be addressed, why should you just shut up and grin and bare it?

 

No one wants to be in a relationship where they know that the other person doesn't really feel the attraction to them. So what? You're just there because she's afraid of being alone? That doesn't sound fair.

 

As for her losing her son - I can't begin to imagine how terrible that must be, but at the same time, what happened to him, doesn't sound like it was YOUR fault, so why is she guilting you with it?

 

Your instinct was to leave, but you stayed because of the tears and the guilt, so is that it?

Or are you going to one day start looking for fulfillment outside your marriage?

Or are you just going to stay and resent her and take her manipulation and abuse and let it build up?

 

Either way, those options don't sound good at all.

 

If it were me, I'd say that we need to really sort out what we want and why we want to stay together, and if its not good enough, well, life is too short, and this wont be the first relationship in the universe to fail. I might be time to move on.

 

ETA: sorry, I kept saying wife/marriage, you said she was your partner - so I was paying attention, just force of habit...sorry

Edited August 12, 2011 by TigerCub

[OnyxSnowfall]

Sometimes I think the most selfish people tend to be the most needy - like some vicious cycle, they adopt a "me me me me" mentality because they feel it's necessary but, it lowers their chances of having their actual needs met... making them burrow deeper into the "me me me me" mentality, lowering their chances even more, etc etc etc. . . while it's a human instinct to be selfish, it's also a human instinct to seek connection; the former tends to create fleeting highs that can become rot and the latter has the potential to seem sacrificial but can be nourishing and fulfilling (there are shades in there, and a little selfishness is healthy).

 

When a person adheres to a selfish mentality, it's really hard for them to break away from it. Sadly to say, often times they have to be "forced" into separating from it. Why? Because more often than not, that kind of mentality is in denial of its own existence (lol) and it blames everyone else for its' problems.

 

Someone has to admit they need help and then be willing to receive it. Unfortunately, and I really do mean unfortunately... in the end, an individual is the only one capable of helping themselves. Sometimes we meet people whose aspects we can know more intimately than they themselves do, and we can do good for them through that knowledge but --- we cannot make their life worth living for them. We cannot make them stop hurting us either... we can shield ourselves and become "detached" so to speak, but we also shield ourselves from a deeper intimacy... too.

 

Nevertheless suffering in this relationship will probably continue to erode at you, especially because it doesn't seem to be making a difference. IF she was struggling to deal with her demons and trying to be closer to you, then I would think the suffering would be worth it (provided you both loved each other and wanted to make things work) --- but...

 

If you love her, I don't think you should abandon her. But I don't think you should put up with her behavior, either. In your situation I would probably leave and inform the person I loved that I will be available to converse with them if they need me (when circumstances afford the opportunity) but that I cannot cope with things the way they are and am not going to live like that anymore. If she is unwilling to listen to you and your reasons, then she may be more willing after the reality sets in that you're not going to tolerate the situation anymore.

 

The only thing I'd really be concerned about is the other person "changing" for awhile to appease me and then after some time, reverting back. I don't think I would attempt to resume an intimate relationship with them until they sought professional help (and I would be willing to help them find it, even attend couple counseling with them).

 

It's possible she'd get angry and feel like you've left her to the dogs but --- she NEEDS to consider you in this relationship. If she hates you for pulling away, I don't think you should feel bad for it... she's too caught up in the "me me me me" and not considering the effects that she has on you.

 

A relationship involves two people and communication is an essential part of it. When one person or two people aren't willing to communicate, it's normal for resentment and negative things to set in and get out of control --- there's so much people misinterpret and on top of that, don't understand about one another --- it's important to open up and share and talk.

 

It could just be a matter of having different languages. That doesn't necessarily mean you two are incompatible... but if she is unwilling to listen to you and to translate things for you then...

 

it may be time to move on... good luck with whatever you decide. I think your situation is pretty complex, with feelings of guilt on both sides and I imagine much more (which is why I think professional help could be very useful in untangling things).

[Turtles]

Hey Turtles

 

(I love your name - I love turtles) mmm, i love turtles

 

Hey now, keep those jaws away from ma shell

 

One thing that occurred to me...it may be totally off, but ...

The fact that she's never felt romantically attracted to someone - do you think that maybe in her childhood she suffered from sexual abuse?

I'm only asking because a very dear friend of mine was molested as a child and she's never been to therapy for it (i'm one of 2 people that even know about this) - but as a result, she shields herself from getting romantically/sexually attracted to people, or even giving people a chance to really fall in love with them.

 

I know that with your wife, its not quite like that (she's with you, and had been intimate - at least to have a child), but considering the fact that she's never sought help for dealing with her son's death, maybe (if she was abused) she never sought help for that either.

 

Do you know if that's the case? Do you think it might be? Would you be afraid of asking her?

 

 

I am not sure. I think she may have. It's hard to tell because she likes to "embellish" the stories a lot so I am not sure what is true and what isn't. I have asked her before, she said her stepdad used to spy on her but never physically abused her. The son was from a previous marriage btw, we have no kid among this mess thankfully.

 

As for the rest of it. She is obviously angry and doesn't quite know how to deal with things, but that doesn't say that its ok to make you her emotional punching bag!

 

She says you need to change so that you're content with the relationship that you have - that doesn't sound fair to me.

 

If you're not happy in the relationship, these things need to be addressed, why should you just shut up and grin and bare it?

 

No one wants to be in a relationship where they know that the other person doesn't really feel the attraction to them. So what? You're just there because she's afraid of being alone? That doesn't sound fair.

 

As for her losing her son - I can't begin to imagine how terrible that must be, but at the same time, what happened to him, doesn't sound like it was YOUR fault, so why is she guilting you with it?

 

Your instinct was to leave, but you stayed because of the tears and the guilt, so is that it?

Or are you going to one day start looking for fulfillment outside your marriage?

Or are you just going to stay and resent her and take her manipulation and abuse and let it build up?

 

Either way, those options don't sound good at all.

 

If it were me, I'd say that we need to really sort out what we want and why we want to stay together, and if its not good enough, well, life is too short, and this wont be the first relationship in the universe to fail. I might be time to move on.

 

ETA: sorry, I kept saying wife/marriage, you said she was your partner - so I was paying attention, just force of habit...sorry

 

Ah yup, we are married. Should have written wife. Freudian slip?

 

Yes, that's really it, I am just staying out of guilt at the moment. I have been trying to get the "in love" feeling back for many years now but it just aint happening. To be fair it was already rocky before her son's accident but things really took a nosedive then.

 

Anyway, the more I think about it and read your insight, the more I see where this is going. I'll have to put it in front of her (once she recovers from her current illness, apparently brought on by the stress of our last argument, though I think it has more to do with the amount of rum she drank after it). It breaks my heart to see her this way, even though our romantic love for each other may be gone I still care for her as a human being. And, I am worried she'll do something really stupid if I leave.

[OnyxSnowfall]

And, I am worried she'll do something really stupid if I leave.

 

What she does afterwards isn't your responsibility... but I know from my own experience that caring doesn't just go away. That's why I'd suggest keeping communication open as an option and being available to try to help her in other ways if possible (unless the point comes where you're being brought down so low, despite not living within it, that you need to completely withdraw for your own health. It's only something I would suggest if you're in a fairly strong place and ideally, so you can encourage her to seek help elsewhere and lean on others for support too).

[Turtles]

BTW... thinking about the intimacy issues... there wasn't any problem before we got married. Her actual words from the last fight:

 

Sex isn't the same thing for women. Sex isn't connected to love. Sex is just something we use to get what we want

 

Yikes, right? But, heat of the moment and all that. Besides it aint so much the sex I miss (we still technically have intercourse about 2/3 times a month), it's the actual intimacy & affection.

[Turtles]

What she does afterwards isn't your responsibility... but I know from my own experience that caring doesn't just go away. That's why I'd suggest keeping communication open as an option and being available to try to help her in other ways if possible (unless the point comes where you're being brought down so low, despite not living within it, that you need to completely withdraw for your own health. It's only something I would suggest if you're in a fairly strong place and ideally, so you can encourage her to seek help elsewhere and lean on others for support too).

 

I would love to keep communication lines open, unfortunately her coping mechanism is cut all communication, lock the door and get drunk (tho she very rarely drinks otherwise)

 

I've encouraged her to reach out to her family etc but since in her opinion there is no problem she does not see the need to. So maybe an ultimatum - "couple counseling or else".

[OnyxSnowfall]

Yikes, yes.

 

You know... it's likely she hates herself and she's (wrongfully) reflecting her self-loathing onto you. Sex can be a tool for many, many things but... (for me, at least), sex at its best, IS an expression of affection, love and intimacy. We all need that. She does too, even if she's the very obstacle that prevents it from blossoming in both of your lives...

 

If you present her with the ultimatum and she still refuses to accept responsibility then... what else can you do besides let her go? If she plummets into complete self-destruction, it isn't your fault... you've done what you can... it's not like you weren't willing to try...

 

it is something heart-breaking though.

 

I've been in a similar place (not with a lover, but with my mother heh). The woman has schizophrenia and has refused to take medication for it... she's off the wall crazy and thinks everyone else. It took me a long time before I realized that some people cannot be helped and all they will do is drag everyone who tries to help them down into misery with them.

 

...it is something heart-breaking, but we only have control over ourselves.

 

It's not easy to let someone go whose odds of self-destruction are great... but if it's just delaying the inevitable and bringing you into it, you have to find a way to come to terms with it.

 

I hope she's willing to get help though and start treating you better and I hope you're both able to come out for the best in it.

[Turtles]

Yes, that's about it... I don't know if it is possible to rekindle but don't want to give up without trying. Thanks for the words of encouragement

[torn_curtain]

Wow, that must have been really horrible to hear. It's also a rather bizarre thing for her to say, and it's unfair for her to expect you to be "content" with that. Did you ask her at all to elaborate on what it meant exactly?

[Ddeepprreesseedd]

WOW....PLEASE, PLEASE cut this woman some slack. She LOST HER CHILD. There is no greater loss than that of a child. And in such a horrible way.

 

Whatever your differences sexually might be please do not abandon her and cut her off because she has low sexual libido.

I am not saying you should stay in a relationship if you don't want to but if you abandon her as a human being you will completely decimate her.

[OnyxSnowfall]

I think it's far beyond sexuality...

 

She needs help... yes, but she's tearing up the OP --- probably because she's unwilling to get help.

 

In the end, she's the one that will decimate herself. Sorry... it's ridiculous to ask someone to put up with someone who is emotionally/verbally abusive just because something traumatic happened to them that THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO SORT OUT. A period of upset and craziness should be expected, BUT YEARS?

 

IF SHE CARES about the OP she will TRY to work on this. God knows how long he's already tried.

 

I DO think that losing a child is something unfathomable. I honestly think I would go crazy. But would I be willing to subject others to my madness? If I was, I don't know how I could be surprised if they did leave me... ESPECIALLY if they warned me beforehand.

[Turtles]

Well, the ultimatum didn't work too good. She said, Why should I try to change? you're the one with a problem! then proceeded to go break some plates. Soo I'm sitting in a motel room now. I realize this is probably not the best place to ask for legal advice but it's saturday night so not a whole lot of choice - is this considered malicious abandonment? This is what she kept telling me.

[Turtles]

WOW....PLEASE, PLEASE cut this woman some slack. She LOST HER CHILD. There is no greater loss than that of a child. And in such a horrible way.

 

Whatever your differences sexually might be please do not abandon her and cut her off because she has low sexual libido.

I am not saying you should stay in a relationship if you don't want to but if you abandon her as a human being you will completely decimate her.

 

D, don't think I haven't been telling myself that for the last 5 years. I believe sex is just a crystallization of the other problems in the relationship though. Honestly, I believe I could do without it if there was some other form of affection present. But I don't know how else to move forward if she does not have the will to change somehow. Maybe by destabilizing the relationship it will force her to seek some help? That's just me trying to ease my conscience though, the fact remains that I have failed her.

[Turtles]

Wow, that must have been really horrible to hear. It's also a rather bizarre thing for her to say, and it's unfair for her to expect you to be "content" with that. Did you ask her at all to elaborate on what it meant exactly?

 

Oh, I think it really was just a heat of the moment thing. She was angry and reached for the most hurtful thing she could find. I am rather used to it and don't pay it too much mind Besides, she is a red head, I've learned to live with the fire from the beginning.

 

I didn't ask her to elaborate because that is just what she wants to be able to twist the knife heh.

[linwood]

I haven`t the slightest idea of why you`re still with this harpy.

 

She has never had romantic affection for you AND she sees sex not as a bonding/loving experience but a tool for manipulation.

 

She`s self centered and violent, abusive and argumentative.

 

I don`t get it...GTFO!

[TigerCub]

Hey now, keep those jaws away from ma shell

Haha, I can't promise to try, but I'll try to try

 

I am not sure. I think she may have. It's hard to tell because she likes to "embellish" the stories a lot so I am not sure what is true and what isn't. I have asked her before, she said her stepdad used to spy on her but never physically abused her. The son was from a previous marriage btw, we have no kid among this mess thankfully.

 

 

 

Ah yup, we are married. Should have written wife. Freudian slip?

 

Yes, that's really it, I am just staying out of guilt at the moment. I have been trying to get the "in love" feeling back for many years now but it just aint happening. To be fair it was already rocky before her son's accident but things really took a nosedive then.

 

Anyway, the more I think about it and read your insight, the more I see where this is going. I'll have to put it in front of her (once she recovers from her current illness, apparently brought on by the stress of our last argument, though I think it has more to do with the amount of rum she drank after it). It breaks my heart to see her this way, even though our romantic love for each other may be gone I still care for her as a human being. And, I am worried she'll do something really stupid if I leave.

 

K, Turtles, I think you see what you have to do.

All those things in bold are your clues about what your next step should be.

 

I don't think people should stay married to each other out of guilt, or because they care for the person as a human being. I think married people should care for each other much more than that, there has to be something more!

 

As for a comment I read in another response, so, does she think that sex is used as a manipulation tool (did she mean that she'll use it to manipulate you, or that you use it to manipulate her?)

 

well either way, although I can agree that sometimes sex can definitely be separate from love, I don't think that should be the case in a "meaningful" relationship.

 

All this is really not sounding good in terms of you staying...

 

As for the last comment in bold. Well you can't just commit to someone forever because they are unstable. That's being held hostage. She's responsible for her actions. You can try to get her to see someone and work through all her issues, but that's really as far as you can take it, the rest is up to her.

 

Good luck Turtles

[Turtles]

Thanks. I left for a night then came back, we had a looong talk, fought, made love, finally managed to tie some ends and got closer than we've been in a long time. So things are looking up a bit

[Minnie09]

Her behavior reminds me of people who act passive-aggressively. She might want to punish you for something. Might be a subconscious thing on her part, or even a conscious revenge for something from the past that hasn't been resolved and makes her resent you. Could that be the case? Everything you describe here just sounds so familiar. You're her target and she wants the upper hand in the M by letting you know that she cares less about you than you care about her. By putting up with her little insults, you show her that you are willing to endure "a lot", just to be with her. That makes her feel "loved" and gives her power.

[OnyxSnowfall]

It's wonderful that you two were able to talk ---

 

(I just hope she comes to a place where she wants to seek outside help, in addition to your support [with you and or independently from you]... for better or worse, positive "changes" tend to take place gradually... positive highs are something else altogether --- there are roots to issues that need to be weeded out).

 

Good luck and I really hope everything works out.

[giotto]

similar situation... wife suffers from upbringing issues and she is on ADs for it. She refuses to go to therapy, because scared of what might happen. Well, she has actually promised, but she doesn't do anything about it. Needless to say that issues + ADs = very little sex and NO intimacy. I have made mistakes, getting angry at the situation and - I suppose - at her, making things much much worse. She retreated in her shell. I'm staying for two reasons: she is "ill" (although fixable) and I feel guilty about leaving her and the kids. I've been trying to get the "love" back, but can't....

 

The problem is: you can't fix her if she doesn't want to get fixed. My wife admitted that her issues have ruined our relationship and still doesn't act on it. Isn't this selfish? But still, she managed to make me feel guilty, like it was my fault. So, I feel for you. Hopefully you'll manage to get over this stale mate. I've lost all hope and resigned myself.

[Turtles]

similar situation... wife suffers from upbringing issues and she is on ADs for it. She refuses to go to therapy, because scared of what might happen. Well, she has actually promised, but she doesn't do anything about it. Needless to say that issues + ADs = very little sex and NO intimacy. I have made mistakes, getting angry at the situation and - I suppose - at her, making things much much worse. She retreated in her shell. I'm staying for two reasons: she is "ill" (although fixable) and I feel guilty about leaving her and the kids. I've been trying to get the "love" back, but can't....

 

The problem is: you can't fix her if she doesn't want to get fixed. My wife admitted that her issues have ruined our relationship and still doesn't act on it. Isn't this selfish? But still, she managed to make me feel guilty, like it was my fault. So, I feel for you. Hopefully you'll manage to get over this stale mate. I've lost all hope and resigned myself.

 

Thanks, Giotto. I have read your posts and can relate to your situation. W has some health issues as well (won't go into details) so I feel guilty for thinking of her that way or thinking of abandoning her. I know it would not be right. But miss being able to really be heart to heart. Ah well, we still care for each other, so no doubt it could be a lot worse. And she is a great cook

[giotto]

Thanks, Giotto. I have read your posts and can relate to your situation. W has some health issues as well (won't go into details) so I feel guilty for thinking of her that way or thinking of abandoning her. I know it would not be right. But miss being able to really be heart to heart. Ah well, we still care for each other, so no doubt it could be a lot worse. And she is a great cook

 

I am the cook in the house! My wife can cook, but she is a bit average, I'm afraid... I suppose 25 years of inactivity (in that department too... ) have left her rather rusty...