"Compassion" for the Betrayed Spouse

[jj33]

Neither do you.

 

Uh thats the point none of us do. Its a question of standard (and correct) usage of the English language.

 

You can SAY you have compassion for the spouse but if you are in an A or trying to get the H to leave then no as a matter of fact, you do not have compassion for that person (unless of course you make up your own meaning for the word).

 

Claims to the contrary are simply disingenuous. And you can stick your fingers in your ears and say I dont hear you or I disagree til the cows come home but its simply a fact, just as surely as the earth revolves around the sun.

[Silly_Girl]

Feeling it and doing something as a result of it are two completely different things.

 

I felt it too but it didn't stop me

 

Exactly. You felt it. Tangible, real feelings. Probably on a daily or almost daily basis?

 

But yet, you didn't stop. That's all I'm saying.

[jj33]

Exactly. You felt it. Tangible, real feelings. Probably on a daily or almost daily basis?

 

But yet, you didn't stop. That's all I'm saying.

 

SG and BB you agree on this - sorry guys but this isnt something you two get to bicker over you agree

[Owl]

Can I bicker? I'm a great bickerer!

[White Flower]

I think after D Day it is not so much compassion, but perhaps empathy.

Empathy, pity, guilt, and compassion. All these things mean different things to different people. I think most often, in the context of which you speak, it is most often the first two. Yet, I believe all are born of the last one. Thus, the word 'compassion' is often used in the general when they really mean something more specific.

 

And THAT may be the hangup jj has about the subject; the many definitions and uses (or mis-uses) of the word.

[Silly_Girl]

SG and BB you agree on this - sorry guys but this isnt something you two get to bicker over you agree

 

Goddamnit. How'd that happen?

[White Flower]

And you can stick your fingers in your ears and say I dont hear you or I disagree til the cows come home but its simply a fact, just as surely as the earth revolves around the sun.

And here I thought it was you who needed people to see things the way you do or they don't know the facts.

[White Flower]

Uh thats the point none of us do. Its a question of standard (and correct) usage of the English language.

Thank you very much for repeating the point I made earlier.

[half_ofa_heart]

If you feel both guild AND compassion...why do you continue?

 

If I knew the answer to that... I wouldn't be continuing. I'm still searching for the answer that will lead me to an end.

[Owl]

If I knew the answer to that... I wouldn't be continuing. I'm still searching for the answer that will lead me to an end.

 

"Do, or do not. There is no try".- The little muppet had it right.

 

"You fail, because you try. Don't try...do."

 

Or a saying that my wife found that was accredited to Confuscious- "No matter where you go, go there with all of your heart".

 

Which direction can you go with all of your heart? With no regret, no indecision, knowing that your heart is leading you to the right place? Continuing with him, or ending the relationship?

 

Compassion, guilt...these are emotional tools that tell you where you should be going (at least in my experience...your mileage may vary). Internal conflict results when we fight or try to ignore these things.

[half_ofa_heart]

"Do, or do not. There is no try".- The little muppet had it right.

 

"You fail, because you try. Don't try...do."

 

Or a saying that my wife found that was accredited to Confuscious- "No matter where you go, go there with all of your heart".

 

Which direction can you go with all of your heart? With no regret, no indecision, knowing that your heart is leading you to the right place? Continuing with him, or ending the relationship?

 

Compassion, guilt...these are emotional tools that tell you where you should be going (at least in my experience...your mileage may vary). Internal conflict results when we fight or try to ignore these things.

 

I hear you owl and I am TRYING! I know reaching one's goal comes easier to some than others but I know in my heart that I have tried and I am STILL trying. I will get there.

[fooled once]

I'm being honest here when I say this and I know some will bash me for it but...

 

It is situational with each case I believe, cheating may be wrong yes, but if someone is treating their SO like garbage and no appreciation, you can hardly feel bad for them if you actually do have sincere love for them and are treating them better.

 

I think we can all agree that is one major reason they seek someone else, which also means there is a complete lack of communication in their relationship in the first place.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses, rather be blunt and honest over alot of situations that exist in this.

 

Come on ..... you don't get to decide/judge how 'someone' is treating their SO. Are you there with the person 24/7 or are you just hearing their version of events? I mean, we see on here all the time how these poor pitiful MM are treated so badly by their mean old wife :rolleyes: and he just couldn't help himself when he dropped his pants. :rolleyes: Come on. Stop making excuses and trying to blame someone else for a choice made by an individual. No, I don't agree that it is the betrayed spouses fault that their cheating spouse chose to cheat.

 

All this comes after the fact. Just my 2 cents, but many OW don't feel compassion for the BS during the A. Some pretend the "wifey" doesn't exist. I guess it's easier to continue on in an affair when you don't think the MM's wife is a living, breathing, human being. That is, until a D-Day and the sheeyot hits the fan.. Then I DO think that the OW can feel compassion for the BS, regret the pain she helped cause by being part of the affair, helping MM betray his wife and family unit. Not all OW feel compassion though, even if an A ends. Guess it all depends on the person overall and their belief system about infidelity, marriage, cheating etc..

 

There are OW who do feel compassion, feel bad about the A but they are so in love with MM and trusting him at his word (my marriage is bad, my wife is a witch, she's mean/abusive/ignores me) it's easy to believe him and the feelings of love is much stronger than feeling bad or having compassion for the BS.

 

Agree

 

I've thought about this a little more.

 

I don't think it is common for someone in situations like these to feel a whole lot towards that BS if they are/believe in love with the om/ow and its ongoing.

 

Now there are some people in this world who actually enjoy causing harm to innocent people, and so in these kinds of cases they are just sick twisted individuals, so naturally they would feel very little if anything, in fact I am sure they may not even notice they exist.

 

Do some people feel guilt, remorse, compassion for the BS ? I think over time that is highly possible, depending of course on what the BS is really like.

 

I am 90% sure that deep down most people would have empathy and or compassion towards the children ( only if involved ), but if not children and depending on those involved I really do believe this is a case by cases sorta thing.

 

It would to me really take a real piece of work, a truly heartless empty cold person to feel nothing, no matter how much they enjoy doing something wrong.

 

Naturally as humans we make mistakes, mistakes that hurt others, sometimes we are not even aware until it is far too late to grasp the true damage done to others, those we love or even ourselves. Nobody is perfect, we will continue to make stupid choices or mistakes.

 

With ethics, they sometimes get overlapped with religious ethics, and this is a whole other topic but, what may be wrong in certain religions from an ethical standpoint, may not be wrong to each individual. Clearly things such as a murder, harming innocent people intentionally and children etc, we know naturally this is wrong ( if we are sound of mind that is ).

 

But we can look at other situations and say, is this or that really wrong ? it's easy for say a god fearing person to say its wrong because they believe in something we may not all believe in, they might have the outlook that only a god they accept to exist has a right to make judgments on if a person is deserving of this or that.

 

So when an OW knows what she is doing is wrong, knows it is hurting someone else (including kids) and doesn't care because "the heart wants what the heart wants" and why should THEY give up the love they feel for the married person then what? Its okay?

 

I think to some (at least myself) It's a constant struggle between guilt AND compassion. I know and genuinely like my MM's W. I hate what I am doing to her. So I feel guilty when I'm with MM but feel compassion when I think of her. But to say that I don't give a crap about her is not true either because if that were true, then I wouldn't feel guilty. It's a vicious circle.

 

But you choose to stay in an affair so logically, to me, you really don't have guilt or compassion because you are choosing to put your needs / wants above others and you know it hurts someone else, but you continue to engage in that behavior?

 

Neither do you.

 

Goodie :rolleyes:

[Owl]

I hear you owl and I am TRYING! I know reaching one's goal comes easier to some than others but I know in my heart that I have tried and I am STILL trying. I will get there.

 

Exactly my point! :D Stop trying, start DOING!!!

 

All it takes is for you to DO IT. END IT. MAKE IT HAPPEN.

 

It's a choice. It's a light switch. It's not a marathon race uphill against running water and high winds. It's a yes/no...not a "maybe sometime".

 

Once you view it as that...you'll succeed. Until then...you'll keep "trying".

 

And please realize this is no attack, I'm not calling you out, and I have no personal vested interest in your situation. I'm just trying to help you see this from a different, perhaps more useful and action-oriented perspective that might help you reach your goals.

 

Good luck to you my friend.

[MissBee]

Have you ever been the BS yourself? I have, so I know the pain a BS goes through. I know it intellectually and can sympathize with the BS intellectually but I choose not to feel the pain again. I don't want to go there, not in my memories and not to "feel" the pain of the BS.

 

I would rather my lover got a divorce, but it's not my choice to make. I choose to stay in our relationship, because the joy I experience is greater than the sadness I feel for her.

 

This is honest and makes sense....

[MissBee]

"Do, or do not. There is no try".- The little muppet had it right.

 

"You fail, because you try. Don't try...do."

 

Or a saying that my wife found that was accredited to Confuscious- "No matter where you go, go there with all of your heart".

 

Which direction can you go with all of your heart? With no regret, no indecision, knowing that your heart is leading you to the right place? Continuing with him, or ending the relationship?

 

Compassion, guilt...these are emotional tools that tell you where you should be going (at least in my experience...your mileage may vary). Internal conflict results when we fight or try to ignore these things.

 

Love this

[jj33]

Have you ever been the BS yourself? I have, so I know the pain a BS goes through. I know it intellectually and can sympathize with the BS intellectually but I choose not to feel the pain again. I don't want to go there, not in my memories and not to "feel" the pain of the BS.

 

I would rather my lover got a divorce, but it's not my choice to make. I choose to stay in our relationship, because the joy I experience is greater than the sadness I feel for her.

 

I agree with you entirely 1000%. Im not saying someone should feel compassion or that it is wrong not to feel compassion Im just saying that while many people intellectually know it, its not correct as a matter of english usage to say that the AP who is sleeping with the spouse is feeling compassionate towards the BS.

 

I think the problem is that people feel attacked as if they should feel compassionate or that it somehow makes them a bad person if they admit to not being compassionate but really it is just the way it is. The two are mutually incompatible, they can not exist at the same time.

[MissBee]

I agree with you entirely 1000%. Im not saying someone should feel compassion or that it is wrong not to feel compassion Im just saying that while many people intellectually know it, its not correct as a matter of english usage to say that the AP who is sleeping with the spouse is feeling compassionate towards the BS.

 

I think the problem is that people feel attacked as if they should feel compassionate or that it somehow makes them a bad person if they admit to not being compassionate but really it is just the way it is. The two are mutually incompatible, they can not exist at the same time.

 

Agree! I like elsa's response as it is frank and to the point, and covers the fact that she intellectually understands, having been there, but because she benefits from the situation she chooses not to "feel". She didn't apologize or try to defend her choice but simply explained how it is that it works for her.

[jj33]

No Elsa I did understand you. And somehow your post rings true it doesnt generally when people speak about having empathy in that situation. I think its the fact that you made the distinction between the intellectualising and the emotion.

[jwi71]

Exactly that is not compassion that is I dont know what but its not compassion.

 

And JW what you described is guilt. I was talking about during the affair and what is felt during the affair may be a clash of how someone sees themselves versus the consequences of what they are doing, or a discomfort with the pain they are causing but if they keep fing the spouse they are not acting with compassion nor do they feel compassion or they would stop.

 

Its guilt and a clash of their perceived personal values versus what they are doing to get their needs met

 

I agree.

 

But why the guilt and from where does the guilt come from?

 

From wronging others. And the presence of "wronging others" (guilt) is a form of compassion. I'd agree its a basal one and incompletely formed (developed?) but it IS compassion. Its an understanding, at some primitive level, that the BS is being hurt.

 

Now the OW/OM will ignore or explain or rationalize it to the end of time trying to assuage the guilt. Because she is wronging the BS and that bothers the AP - at some level and to some degree. I still maintain its a form of compassion.

 

And that compassion for the BS whilst simultaneously being the one hurting the BS is a helluva conundrum.

 

See it here all the time.

 

Witness the one thread where the OP was venting about telling her xMM's W.

I challenged her as to why not.

"Im not that person"

Compassion.

 

It IS there.

[jwi71]

jwi - what makes you call it compassion? why is it not selfish pain? At rejection or humiliation or frustration or embarrassment?

 

Then I would expect a great many more spurned OW to be dialing up the BW - and virtually all spurned OW would have a reason, from their perspective, to do so.

 

Yet most, a great majority I would wager, do not.

 

Why?

 

I say compassion.

 

How many times have we seen "I can't do that to her" or "Im not that person" - virtually every in one guise or another. Its compassion. Yes, it could also be a calculated step but, since I will take the position that most OW do not get the guy, at the end the spurned OW STILL does not.

 

Its compassion. And that nugget of compassion causes disproportionate grief and guilt in most OW.

 

I suppose, for me, it boils down to why the OW, even after dumped, doesn't tell. And many times they tell no one. Guilt, shame, humiliation like you say...but, at least some of it, formed of compassion.

 

And why the sam hell am I, a BS, arguing that OW have compassion AGAINST OW who claim they do not?

 

Seriously. Is it a full moon or something? Oh shyte, it IS!

[jj33]

I would still disagree. People say Im not that person but actions speak louder than words. You are that person if you are doing "that", you just dont like the implications of your actions. I know I was that person and I didnt like that aspect of being the OW but it was what it was.

[Gentlegirl]

Uh thats the point none of us do. Its a question of standard (and correct) usage of the English language.

 

You can SAY you have compassion for the spouse but if you are in an A or trying to get the H to leave then no as a matter of fact, you do not have compassion for that person (unless of course you make up your own meaning for the word).

 

Claims to the contrary are simply disingenuous. And you can stick your fingers in your ears and say I dont hear you or I disagree til the cows come home but its simply a fact, just as surely as the earth revolves around the sun.

 

It's actuall "none of us does" for any grammar pedants out there.

[Silly_Girl]

Then I would expect a great many more spurned OW to be dialing up the BW - and virtually all spurned OW would have a reason, from their perspective, to do so.

 

Yet most, a great majority I would wager, do not.

 

Why?

 

I say compassion.

 

How many times have we seen "I can't do that to her" or "Im not that person" - virtually every in one guise or another. Its compassion. Yes, it could also be a calculated step but, since I will take the position that most OW do not get the guy, at the end the spurned OW STILL does not.

 

Its compassion. And that nugget of compassion causes disproportionate grief and guilt in most OW.

 

I suppose, for me, it boils down to why the OW, even after dumped, doesn't tell. And many times they tell no one. Guilt, shame, humiliation like you say...but, at least some of it, formed of compassion.

 

And why the sam hell am I, a BS, arguing that OW have compassion AGAINST OW who claim they do not?

 

Seriously. Is it a full moon or something? Oh shyte, it IS!

 

Thanks jwi, I wanted more from you on this. I agree that those feelings simultaneously exist, just that they don't necessarily take priority over another feeling on a given day. Humans are complex, our emotions are not black and white, they bubble up and disperse, they ebb and flow, we feel sure of something, then we are not. I like the observation that jj is making, I just don't believe it's the reality. I think the reality (based on my experience and reading posts here) is more as you describe.

[Spark1111]

No Elsa I did understand you. And somehow your post rings true it doesnt generally when people speak about having empathy in that situation. I think its the fact that you made the distinction between the intellectualising and the emotion.

 

And that jj, is called denial or compartmentalization, not compassion...more guilt in my estimation.

[Spark1111]

Then I would expect a great many more spurned OW to be dialing up the BW - and virtually all spurned OW would have a reason, from their perspective, to do so.

 

Yet most, a great majority I would wager, do not.

 

Why?

 

I say compassion.

 

How many times have we seen "I can't do that to her" or "Im not that person" - virtually every in one guise or another. Its compassion. Yes, it could also be a calculated step but, since I will take the position that most OW do not get the guy, at the end the spurned OW STILL does not.

 

Its compassion. And that nugget of compassion causes disproportionate grief and guilt in most OW.

 

I suppose, for me, it boils down to why the OW, even after dumped, doesn't tell. And many times they tell no one. Guilt, shame, humiliation like you say...but, at least some of it, formed of compassion.

 

And why the sam hell am I, a BS, arguing that OW have compassion AGAINST OW who claim they do not?

 

Seriously. Is it a full moon or something? Oh shyte, it IS!

 

About the bolded? I disagree.

 

It's cowardice.