"Compassion" for the Betrayed Spouse

[seren]

I think compartmentalising the BS is not just the act of the WS, I aslo think the AP has to do this to some extent. I know when I spoke to the OW she kept saying how sorry she was and that I sounded really kind, I thought , but I have always been kind and why sorry now? But also knew that if my H had contacted her she would have been there in a heartbeat. I find it odd that many OW/OM say they would never to it to the partner of a friend and think that because the BS is faceless it is easier.

 

I think after D Day it is not so much compassion, but perhaps empathy.

[Tayla]

Thru time and such I have learned to take scenarios as they come.

 

The reality is, some Affairs are one sided and vile in retaliations for whatever is ailing the marriage.

 

Without detail I stand uncommitted to saying OW's need feel compassion as a criterea one way or the other. Some A's are necessary given extenuating circumstances ....

 

SOme affairs (oddly) are within grasp of not needing compassion for the so called cheated on spouse, sometimes people make their own bed.

 

Outta curiousity what is the difference though between an open marriage and an affair? Somehow just because someone is open doesnt mean they arent in the christian sense not cheating just because all agree to partake of this style of relations....

[whichwayisup]

I think I'm going to have to disagree here.

 

I think the OW/OM truly DOES feel compassion and guilt.

 

But its excused away and suppressed. Often unsuccessfully. Its the source of the conflict felt. They KNOW its wrong, they KNOW it hurts others (including themselves) yet they continue. A's are frequently compared to addiction for good reason. The OW/OM will persist in hurting others and themselves to get their fix. Then, we the high subsides and the rational self returns...the guilt, born of compassion, kicks in. Its brutal.

 

Witness how many OW/OM here frequently say "I will NEVER do this again".

 

Hurts too much. Causes too much pain - most of it internalized as guilt (at hurting others - at seeing the damage done).

 

How is that NOT compassion? Or, more aptly, how is that not born of compassion?

 

I would expect a lack of compassion to manifest itself as "I don't give a damn" and have that attitude and tone persist. Yet that is rarely witnessed here.

 

I think there is compassion...and it causes OW/OM TONS of problems.

 

All this comes after the fact. Just my 2 cents, but many OW don't feel compassion for the BS during the A. Some pretend the "wifey" doesn't exist. I guess it's easier to continue on in an affair when you don't think the MM's wife is a living, breathing, human being. That is, until a D-Day and the sheeyot hits the fan.. Then I DO think that the OW can feel compassion for the BS, regret the pain she helped cause by being part of the affair, helping MM betray his wife and family unit. Not all OW feel compassion though, even if an A ends. Guess it all depends on the person overall and their belief system about infidelity, marriage, cheating etc..

 

There are OW who do feel compassion, feel bad about the A but they are so in love with MM and trusting him at his word (my marriage is bad, my wife is a witch, she's mean/abusive/ignores me) it's easy to believe him and the feelings of love is much stronger than feeling bad or having compassion for the BS.

 

Outta curiousity what is the difference though between an open marriage and an affair? Somehow just because someone is open doesnt mean they arent in the christian sense not cheating just because all agree to partake of this style of relations....

 

You should start a new thread for discussion about this topic.

[jj33]

So, is the "compassion" usually spoken of here the kind where the behavior will stop after the OP/AP gets what they want (the ruin of a marriage/devastation of a person for their personal gain)? Or the MP ends the affair?

 

Can that really be called compassion at all?

 

I, personally, call that condescension. Its very patronizing and not at all acknowledging that real harm has occurred and by that person's hand.

 

Exactly that is not compassion that is I dont know what but its not compassion.

 

And JW what you described is guilt. I was talking about during the affair and what is felt during the affair may be a clash of how someone sees themselves versus the consequences of what they are doing, or a discomfort with the pain they are causing but if they keep fing the spouse they are not acting with compassion nor do they feel compassion or they would stop.

 

Its guilt and a clash of their perceived personal values versus what they are doing to get their needs met

[MrSomewhere]

I've thought about this a little more.

 

I don't think it is common for someone in situations like these to feel a whole lot towards that BS if they are/believe in love with the om/ow and its ongoing.

 

Now there are some people in this world who actually enjoy causing harm to innocent people, and so in these kinds of cases they are just sick twisted individuals, so naturally they would feel very little if anything, in fact I am sure they may not even notice they exist.

 

Do some people feel guilt, remorse, compassion for the BS ? I think over time that is highly possible, depending of course on what the BS is really like.

 

I am 90% sure that deep down most people would have empathy and or compassion towards the children ( only if involved ), but if not children and depending on those involved I really do believe this is a case by cases sorta thing.

 

It would to me really take a real piece of work, a truly heartless empty cold person to feel nothing, no matter how much they enjoy doing something wrong.

 

I think something else that is important for people to understand is, and while certain people may not like this viewpoint, is ethics.

 

Naturally as humans we make mistakes, mistakes that hurt others, sometimes we are not even aware until it is far too late to grasp the true damage done to others, those we love or even ourselves. Nobody is perfect, we will continue to make stupid choices or mistakes.

 

With ethics, they sometimes get overlapped with religious ethics, and this is a whole other topic but, what may be wrong in certain religions from an ethical standpoint, may not be wrong to each individual. Clearly things such as a murder, harming innocent people intentionally and children etc, we know naturally this is wrong ( if we are sound of mind that is ).

 

But we can look at other situations and say, is this or that really wrong ? it's easy for say a god fearing person to say its wrong because they believe in something we may not all believe in, they might have the outlook that only a god they accept to exist has a right to make judgments on if a person is deserving of this or that.

 

My personal attitude has always been, I try to live a life true to my own personal ethics, religion plays no part in this, I don't believe in karma either, because the harsh truth is people do so called good and evil things all the time, yet they don't have lightning bolts striking them down nor does a ton of horrible luck come their way, in fact over history people have done horribly destructive acts and well...they died living very comfortable lives, that's not a pass at being destructive or saying destructive choices are a positive option or you should do it, I don't believe that is wise or anything good.

 

I simply accept that it is my own right to decide what is ethically ok based on each situation I come across, this extends beyond simply love topics.

Edited August 12, 2011 by MrSomewhere

[jj33]

Mr Somewhere Im not saying the AP is wrong to be having the affair or casting judgement Im only casting judgement against those who who would claim to have compassion for the BS while they are doing it with the BS s husband. And even what they feel towards the children is guilt or maybe not maybe its not my family its his issue. In either case it is not compassion. (Read the definition of compassion)

 

 

If you say gee I wish my actions werent causing someone harm that is not compassion that is saying well I wish noone had to get hurt for me to get what I want, and I feel discomfort but Im going to do it anyway. Again read the definition, its not compassion. People WANT TO BELIEVE that they are compassionate because being in a affair crosses most peoples sense of their own boundaries but its not compassion

 

How many times does a post start - I never thought I would be in an A.... that is the clash of actions versus personal values or perceptions of who we are, its not compassion. Its guilt but not compassion and we rationalize that its different in our situation.

 

I find it interesting that people will own that they are an OW or proud OW but they, particularly the proud OWs, often wont own that they are not compassionate towards the spouse.

[jj33]

.

 

Without detail I stand uncommitted to saying OW's need feel compassion as a criterea one way or the other. Some A's are necessary given extenuating circumstances ....

 

SOme affairs (oddly) are within grasp of not needing compassion for the so called cheated on spouse, sometimes people make their own bed.

 

Outta curiousity what is the difference though between an open marriage and an affair? Somehow just because someone is open doesnt mean they arent in the christian sense not cheating just because all agree to partake of this style of relations....

 

Tayla Im not saying anyone needs to feel compassion Im simply saying that doing it with someone's spouse means by definition that you do NOT have compassion for the spouse. I never said you should have compassion just saying dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining. Its not compassion

[Silly_Girl]

(Read the definition of compassion)

 

You have:

 

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/compassion

 

sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

I would argue that it is possible to do something which is hurtful to somebody, or impacts on them, and still have those feelings.

 

Or there's:

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/compassion

 

Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it

I would argue that applying this definition of compassion means if one continues to act in a way that brings hurt or harm to another, they simply cannot claim to have compassion for them.

[eleanor01]

I feel an enormous amount of compassion for my lover's wife. I am not confusing compassion and guilt (which I also feel) here at all. She is going through a horrible situation unrelated to my affair with her husband and it just sounds like hell.

 

Best,

Ellie

[Owl]

And yet others who beat themselves sh*tless.

 

But not enough for them to change their actions/behaviors.

 

Hard to believe you feel too bad about it if you continue to conduct the same behavior that you're "beating yourself ####less about".

 

If it truly mattered to you...you'd change your behaviors/actions.

[Owl]

You have:

 

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/compassion

 

sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

I would argue that it is possible to do something which is hurtful to somebody, or impacts on them, and still have those feelings.

 

Or there's:

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/compassion

 

Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it

I would argue that applying this definition of compassion means if one continues to act in a way that brings hurt or harm to another, they simply cannot claim to have compassion for them.

 

I would say that actions demonstrate what you truly value. I would suggest that by these definitions...an OW who continues her affair certainly isn't demonstrating any evidence of feeling compassion, regardless of her verbal claims otherwise.

 

It's all about the actions, not the words. Haven't we seen/heard this before?

[Silly_Girl]

I would say that actions demonstrate what you truly value. I would suggest that by these definitions...an OW who continues her affair certainly isn't demonstrating any evidence of feeling compassion, regardless of her verbal claims otherwise.

 

It's all about the actions, not the words. Haven't we seen/heard this before?

 

Owl, I've already stated that for me the word compassion denotes the definition that leads to a change in behaviour, but it doesn't change the fact that people do use the word compassion in an empathy/sympathy context.

[jj33]

People can call it what they want but to me it doesnt change the fact that people can use whatever word that theyd like but if someone is having it off with someone's else's spouse his or her claim of sympathy empathy or anything relating to it is disingenuous in my view. Self serving, river of denial fluff. The tears are crocodile tears.

[Silly_Girl]

People can call it what they want but to me it doesnt change the fact that people can use whatever word that theyd like but if someone is having it off with someone's else's spouse his or her claim of sympathy empathy or anything relating to it is disingenuous in my view. Self serving, river of denial fluff. The tears are crocodile tears.

 

That's you and how you deal with things. I think some women DO feel that way. In fact I can think of an obvious case straight off. They genuinely DO have strong feelings about what the BS is feeling/suffering, and why, yet their behaviour does not change. There are occasionally posters who come hear and you can hear their pain in respect of the BS, they're haunted by it, but they haven't yet changed their behaviour.

 

Maybe it's as black and white as you say. I think maybe not.

[half_ofa_heart]

That's you and how you deal with things. I think some women DO feel that way. In fact I can think of an obvious case straight off. They genuinely DO have strong feelings about what the BS is feeling/suffering, and why, yet their behaviour does not change. There are occasionally posters who come hear and you can hear their pain in respect of the BS, they're haunted by it, but they haven't yet changed their behaviour.

 

Maybe it's as black and white as you say. I think maybe not.

 

I think to some (at least myself) It's a constant struggle between guilt AND compassion. I know and genuinely like my MM's W. I hate what I am doing to her. So I feel guilty when I'm with MM but feel compassion when I think of her. But to say that I don't give a crap about her is not true either because if that were true, then I wouldn't feel guilty. It's a vicious circle.

[Owl]

I think to some (at least myself) It's a constant struggle between guilt AND compassion. I know and genuinely like my MM's W. I hate what I am doing to her. So I feel guilty when I'm with MM but feel compassion when I think of her. But to say that I don't give a crap about her is not true either because if that were true, then I wouldn't feel guilty. It's a vicious circle.

 

If you feel both guild AND compassion...why do you continue?

[Silly_Girl]

It was my feelings towards the wife that meant when he and I got back in touch I refused to see him until he'd told her about me. Clearly I didn't feel THAT compassionate because I didn't have a big issue with him getting on the train to see me when she knew that was where he was going, but then she was seeing her guy too and not overtly lying about it so I was fairly cool once she was made aware of where he was spending his time and why.

[woinlove]

 

Outta curiousity what is the difference though between an open marriage and an affair? Somehow just because someone is open doesnt mean they arent in the christian sense not cheating just because all agree to partake of this style of relations....

 

I'd say the difference is the lack of deception, dishonesty, betrayal, broken trust, disrespect,... in the open M case. So for the purposes of this thread, not clear what the compassion would be for as there isn't a "betrayed spouse".

 

However, I think any sexual relationship outside the confines of a marriage recognized by the religion might be considered sin, whether that is an open M or premarital or postmarital sex,...

[jthorne]

People can call it what they want but to me it doesnt change the fact that people can use whatever word that theyd like but if someone is having it off with someone's else's spouse his or her claim of sympathy empathy or anything relating to it is disingenuous in my view. Self serving, river of denial fluff. The tears are crocodile tears.

This is what I was thinking. It matters not what definition is used. Words without action are just that- words.

[Silly_Girl]

If his wife had been faithful to him, would that have been a deal-breaker for you?

 

BB, you know how these things go. We don't sit and read a clipboard of facts and stats and tick yes's and no's. What I'm trying to say is that looking back it's hard to state that. Because I could be kidding myself either way.

 

Him not having kids? GIGANTIC factor for me. Yes, a dealbreaker.

 

Her having another relationship for years? It was definitely a factor, I can't deny it. But I can't say it was a dealbreaker, because their marriage being kind of stilted and unconventional, that wasn't because she had an OM, she had an OM because of the marriage being lacking. So maybe one of them was going to be the first to stray. Maybe if it hadn't been her it would have been him - with me, so I'm genuinely not sure. It would be too easy to say I'd have stayed away. He is adamant there's no way he'd have even thought for ten seconds about being involved with another person before her affair.

[jj33]

See Silly now I agree with you. You are not claiming that you had compassion for her, which to me is perfectly valid given your set of facts.

 

But that wasnt even the point of the thread, whether you would have had the A or not in other circumstances. The point was that people show own up to the fact that Fing someones spouse is not a compassionate or empathetic act no matter what you call it.

 

And there is no law that says that the AP needs to have compassion it just makes me ill when people claim to have compassion for the people whose spouses they are Fing.

[Silly_Girl]

 

But that wasnt even the point of the thread, whether you would have had the A or not in other circumstances. The point was that people show own up to the fact that Fing someones spouse is not a compassionate or empathetic act no matter what you call it.

 

It is absolutely NOT a compassionate act. No question in my mind. It's not being done to benefit or show kindness to the spouse. With you there.

 

However (admit it, you knew this was coming!) I personally, and I'm not perturbed if I'm the only one, think some OW can still feel sympathy/empathy AND continue with the A.

[skywriter]

Without going into the details of my A, I'll say, no I didn't have compassion for my ex-AP's W.

 

I did feel guilt, but I was so selfishly enthralled into the A, that I didn't stop it.

 

It was something that I justified in my mind and wasn't ready to give up, until I finally opened my eyes to what I really had, nothing.

 

But, yes, I did hate, that I no longer felt myself a part of the sisterhood, that I'd felt, before becoming involved with the MM.

 

...and yes, there was guilt. Just very selfish behavior on my part as well.

Edited August 12, 2011 by skywriter

[White Flower]

Sorry, but you don't get to decide how other use/feel "compassion".

Neither do you.

[Spark1111]

Both the AP and the WS may feel guilt. Guilt is a result of shame, a feeling of doing something less than honorable that indirectly hurts another. In and of itself, guilt is self-serving.

 

Yeah, I feel bad, but I'm still going to see her again.

 

It has NOTHING to do with compassion or remorse.

 

Compassion and remorse are the ability to go outside one's own selfish desires and walk a mile in the victim's footsteps, and truly realize the damage you are doing.

 

If either the AP or MAPs had true compassion or remorse, they end the affair because they can no longer continue it.

 

Being selfish and guilty have to do with YOU. Having compassion and remorse has to do with the person you are hurting.

 

It is an oxymoron to say I was compassionate to the BS, but still had the affair.