Therapist or Lover???

[half_ofa_heart]

I know that my A is far from a “normal” relationship and since this whole type of relationship is new (new as in my first one) to me… I’m just wondering if any OW/OM fall into this… rock and a hard place.

 

My MM considers me his best friend. He doesn’t have any other guy friends to confide in so that kind of leaves only me (and his wife of course). I have no problem with him sharing certain trials and tribulations with me but I kinda have a hard time with being his therapist when it comes to arguments between him and his wife. It is very, very, very hard to sit and listen to the venting and bitching about his wife day in and day out without saying – “then leave her!”

 

It has gotten to the point where lately he even tells me about when she is complaining about not getting any sex!!!! Seriously… I am not making this up! Really??? Did I really need to hear about this? What kind of advice is he thinking I’m going to give him??? “Oh honey, you should probably be trying harder to have more sex with her.”

 

I don’t know… maybe I’m just reaching the end of my rope so hopefully this is a sign that the end is near.

[ladydesigner]

I know that my A is far from a “normal” relationship and since this whole type of relationship is new (new as in my first one) to me… I’m just wondering if any OW/OM fall into this… rock and a hard place.

 

My MM considers me his best friend. He doesn’t have any other guy friends to confide in so that kind of leaves only me (and his wife of course). I have no problem with him sharing certain trials and tribulations with me but I kinda have a hard time with being his therapist when it comes to arguments between him and his wife. It is very, very, very hard to sit and listen to the venting and bitching about his wife day in and day out without saying – “then leave her!”

 

It has gotten to the point where lately he even tells me about when she is complaining about not getting any sex!!!! Seriously… I am not making this up! Really??? Did I really need to hear about this? What kind of advice is he thinking I’m going to give him??? “Oh honey, you should probably be trying harder to have more sex with her.”

 

I don’t know… maybe I’m just reaching the end of my rope so hopefully this is a sign that the end is near.

 

:eek:This is unsettling. I agree that it sounds like a tough place to be in. In a way it is good you are not seeing him through rose colored glasses anymore. Be strong in whatever decision you make. The healthy one sounds like it's right around the corner, you just have to want it bad enough. You deserve more than this and so does his wife.

[cupshalfempty]

Thankfully mine doesn't talk too much about his. If he does start its very minimal. I am the opposite, he was my sounding board. He is for everything not just my ex but kids, friends, blech even my dog..lol.

 

I wouldn't be good @ being his for his marriage. He knows it..lol. I would have a hard time not agreeing with her on things and supporting him, and then be conflicted with my own biased wants of saying then leave her!

 

Half I made a new email if u didn't see so we could chat.

 

Cupshalfempty3333 at live dot com

[Silly_Girl]

Half... How frustrating for you. You must roll your eyes at times and yeah, just want to say "D'oh! Leave, you moron!!".

 

I'm not comfortable with that. I know my bf spoke lots about his life, his family, his marriage; I met him at a time when he really had cause to take a good look at things. But he didn't expect sympathy and he didn't slag his wife off. God, there were never personal insults. So him venting about his life in general was no different to me doing the same really. I think you're right to address this, with yourself first obviously, as you are doing.

 

And I think you're on to something. Him doing it is symbolic, and your feelings about it are symbolic.

[half_ofa_heart]

I try to be objective (a good friend) with ALL of his issues with his wife. I was married too and for some of the arguements, I point out where I think she's coming from and then I look at myself and say "WTH are you doing????" I should not have to play therapist to him about her!!!!

 

Like I said, I've been married before and I remember when I got to that point where NOTHING my husband could do was right or good enough. I just didn't like him and there was so much resentment that I couldn't see one good quality about him. I believe they are both harboring a lot of resentment for each other but, like I said, I don't need to be the one to fix it. You want my advice, Leave her and I've told him as much. But if he wants advice on how to fix it, I'm not that person!

 

The sex thing was where I drew the line!!! Obviously this man is so friggen selfish that he cannot see past his own needs! Why on earth do I want to sit there and listen to him gripe about sex with his W!!!!

 

I'm just starting to see some qualities about him that aren't too pretty. BIG things like being that perpetual teenager who lives in the past because that's when they were in their prime... you know what I mean???

 

Again, I don't know. I just hope that its true that perhaps the rose colored glasses are coming off.

[MissBee]

I know that my A is far from a “normal” relationship and since this whole type of relationship is new (new as in my first one) to me… I’m just wondering if any OW/OM fall into this… rock and a hard place.

 

My MM considers me his best friend. He doesn’t have any other guy friends to confide in so that kind of leaves only me (and his wife of course). I have no problem with him sharing certain trials and tribulations with me but I kinda have a hard time with being his therapist when it comes to arguments between him and his wife. It is very, very, very hard to sit and listen to the venting and bitching about his wife day in and day out without saying – “then leave her!”

 

It has gotten to the point where lately he even tells me about when she is complaining about not getting any sex!!!! Seriously… I am not making this up! Really??? Did I really need to hear about this? What kind of advice is he thinking I’m going to give him??? “Oh honey, you should probably be trying harder to have more sex with her.”

 

I don’t know… maybe I’m just reaching the end of my rope so hopefully this is a sign that the end is near.

 

I don't mean to laugh Half, but this was just too funny: “Oh honey, you should probably be trying harder to have more sex with her.”

 

LOL!

 

But seriously speaking, that's really too much. Think about it, if a single girlfriend of mine, or even if I was dating a single guy and he kept bitching about his ex gf or some such, I would be peeved and tell him that he clearly is hung upon this person and is in NO way ready to commit to me, so he needs to sort himself out! I really would not be his therapist as he moans and groans about some other woman...it is selfish and disrespectful. Like truly, if he cares about you as someone he seriously would want to make a life with, and not just a bestfriend who he gets sex and then complains about his wife to, he WOULD NOT tell you some of the stuff he tells you, like really, who does that????

 

When I was with the taken guy, I must say, he never once complained about his gf or spoke about her much at all, part of the reason he said was to be sensitive to my feelings about "the situation". I could respect that. The occasional times he did bring her up for some mundane reasons slapped me in the face like wow...ahmmm this situation is a bit of a mess...so I really cannot imagine putting up with someone who CONSTANTLY brings up the BS. It would be a turn off to me because: 1. the fact that he is such a huge whiner, who is not doing anything to change what's going on, that's not cute on anyone, particularly men. I like for a man to be decisive and not one who sits and moans and groans daily 2.the fact that they don't seem to have any sensitivity about my feelings and how awkward it is for me and 3. the whole illusion would come crashing down as it is indeed hard to be romantic and think of love and a future as this person complains about sexing their wife.

 

 

But Half.....at the end of the day hon, you're still there, sooo he sees nothing wrong with what he is doing. He is quite comfy, so much so that he complains to you about their sex and thinks NOTHING of it! You've allowed him to get that comfortable, so he's spoiled now. Surely he isn't the last man on earth, so if you don't fancy hearing about him and his wife and you don't like this situation, you can opt out. It won't be easy but I guarantee once you're out and looking back, this whole thing will seem even more absurd and you'll be glad to have put a stop to such foolishness.

Edited August 12, 2011 by MissBee

[half_ofa_heart]

But Half.....at the end of the day hon, you're still there, sooo he sees nothing wrong with what he is doing. He is quite comfy, so much so that he complains to you about their sex and thinks NOTHING of it! You've allowed him to get that comfortable, so he's spoiled now. Surely he isn't the last man on earth, so if you don't fancy hearing about him and his wife and you don't like this situation, you can opt out. It won't be easy but I guarantee once you're out and looking back, this whole thing will seem even more absurd and you'll be glad to have put a stop to such foolishness.

 

WOW!!! Thanks MissBee! You are absolutely correct. He is comfy and I've allowed him to be.

 

I've known for quite some time (mostly likely from the beginning) that this is soooo very wrong but I've let it go on. I'm loving him less and less but I know what happens... as soon as I break things off with him, he'll come to me with his words of love and how we belong together and I'll fall for it. It's happened so many times I can almost resite it.

 

I've ordered the book, how to break the addiction to a person and am hoping to gain some insight on how to break free from this oh so toxic relationship. I have to do it for me!!!

[MissBee]

My first question would be why does this man not have any friends? HUGE RED FLAG BE THERE.

 

I did think of this too...

 

My ex was the same...well he had "friends", he claimed he didn't get along with males so only had female friends, all of whom were from highschool, all of whom he complained about, all of whom weren't really his friends....mind you he went to college and could not explain how come he had NO friends from college or from his job. I ignored this tid bit....later on it proved an important piece in the puzzle of his huge list of issues!

 

A grown man should have friends other than the wife he complains about and his OW whom he considers his bestfriend. I'm just saying...

[MissBee]

WOW!!! Thanks MissBee! You are absolutely correct. He is comfy and I've allowed him to be.

 

I've known for quite some time (mostly likely from the beginning) that this is soooo very wrong but I've let it go on. I'm loving him less and less but I know what happens... as soon as I break things off with him, he'll come to me with his words of love and how we belong together and I'll fall for it. It's happened so many times I can almost resite it.

 

I've ordered the book, how to break the addiction to a person and am hoping to gain some insight on how to break free from this oh so toxic relationship. I have to do it for me!!!

 

I'm excited for you that the facade is quickly disintegrating.

 

I know that back and forth drama where someone clearly is not good for you but somehow you think, "Maybe this time he means it", "Maybe I can just forgive him", "Maybe he's just stressed but this time will be different", "Maybe if I listen more", "Maybe he just doesn't know how to show his love" "Maybe..maybe...maybe"....and you know what? Maybe nothing! It ALWAYS boils down to the same thing that you already knew. You should check out the baggage reclaim site!

 

It's hard to break that cycle but with awareness it becomes hard to stay in the cycle and you're at that point where you're seeing the absurdity of it, and where your self delusions aren't as strong as they used to be. It's a good thing! It feels scary to let go of this one thing but you're on the cusp of emerging on a better level where you can have all that you want and deserve. I love this quote, and I think it is appropriate:

 

“What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.” - Richard Bach

[whichwayisup]

I know that my A is far from a “normal” relationship and since this whole type of relationship is new (new as in my first one) to me… I’m just wondering if any OW/OM fall into this… rock and a hard place.

 

My MM considers me his best friend. He doesn’t have any other guy friends to confide in so that kind of leaves only me (and his wife of course). I have no problem with him sharing certain trials and tribulations with me but I kinda have a hard time with being his therapist when it comes to arguments between him and his wife. It is very, very, very hard to sit and listen to the venting and bitching about his wife day in and day out without saying – “then leave her!”

 

It has gotten to the point where lately he even tells me about when she is complaining about not getting any sex!!!! Seriously… I am not making this up! Really??? Did I really need to hear about this? What kind of advice is he thinking I’m going to give him??? “Oh honey, you should probably be trying harder to have more sex with her.”

 

I don’t know… maybe I’m just reaching the end of my rope so hopefully this is a sign that the end is near.

 

Sorry H, I thought you were in NC mode and had broken up with your MM already..

 

He's putting you in a bad place and you are allowing it!

 

I HOPE you're coming near the end of your rope, sick of the crap. He isn't focussing on you at all, which means... Sorry to say this, but he isn't leaving her, he's happy having the A, keeping you as the OW. You provide something for him yet you are getting the short end of the stick!

 

What about YOU? Does he ever ask how you are doing? WHat's happening in your life? Care how you are feeling? Ever wonder or comment on the fact the type of stuff he's talking to you about is hurtful towards you? Considering your feelings? My guess is, no.

[half_ofa_heart]

What about YOU? Does he ever ask how you are doing? WHat's happening in your life? Care how you are feeling? Ever wonder or comment on the fact the type of stuff he's talking to you about is hurtful towards you? Considering your feelings? My guess is, no.

 

Good Guess WWIU!!

 

That's always been one of the things that has bugged me about him from day ONE!! It is ALWAYS ABOUT HIM!!! I have to admit that he was more selfish in the beginning than now but he's still very self centered

 

For the last couple of months, I've had this strange feeling that the end was near. Everyone kept telling me that I would do it when I was ready. I was afraid I'd never be ready but I'm getting the feeling that I'm getting ready. I hate to jynx myself because I really want to WANT to end this.

 

Thanks to EVERYONE for your support. Lord knows I can't rely on my MM for any

[whichwayisup]

Work on caring less and detaching. Not sayin' you have to dump him now, but get in the mindset of being in the process of ending it.

 

When he calls and talks about his wife and their problems, listen for a minute then say "I'm sorry do this to you but someone is at the door, I have to go" build up to it, each few days change it up.. "I'm sorry to do this to you, but I need to go, I'm feeling ill, think I'm coming down with the flu.." and take 2 days for yourself. don't answer his calls. Focus on you during that time. Forget him and his problems since he only cares about himself.

 

If he is that selfish, trust me, he has LOTS of others he talks to. Those types don't just pick one person. He probably does talk to his buddies about his stuff, co workers too. Don't feel obligated to him! YOu're not his wife, nor his therapist!

[half_ofa_heart]

Work on caring less and detaching. Not sayin' you have to dump him now, but get in the mindset of being in the process of ending it.

 

When he calls and talks about his wife and their problems, listen for a minute then say "I'm sorry do this to you but someone is at the door, I have to go" build up to it, each few days change it up.. "I'm sorry to do this to you, but I need to go, I'm feeling ill, think I'm coming down with the flu.." and take 2 days for yourself. don't answer his calls. Focus on you during that time. Forget him and his problems since he only cares about himself.

 

If he is that selfish, trust me, he has LOTS of others he talks to. Those types don't just pick one person. He probably does talk to his buddies about his stuff, co workers too. Don't feel obligated to him! YOu're not his wife, nor his therapist!

 

This is VERY good advice and even better, something I think I can do.

 

About the bolded... He doesn't have anyone in his life to talk to besides me and his wife. He talks to me about the issues with his wife but he has NO ONE to talk to about his issues with me... I'm his dirtly little secret

 

This week, since the "sex conversation" I have been a little less available but that's just because I didn't want to hear anymore about their fights. They seem to be more frequent these days.

 

One MAJOR thing that happened this week that could be what has helped open my eyes was... MM was over for dinner the other night and my kids were here (they have no idea we're anything more than friends) and my teenage son tells me after he leaves... "mom, don't take this the wrong way but sometimes MM is so darn full of himself." all I could do was laugh!

 

My son could see right thru him and I couldn't!!! Yet another reason to get away from MM

[MissBee]

This is VERY good advice and even better, something I think I can do.

 

About the bolded... He doesn't have anyone in his life to talk to besides me and his wife. He talks to me about the issues with his wife but he has NO ONE to talk to about his issues with me... I'm his dirtly little secret

 

This week, since the "sex conversation" I have been a little less available but that's just because I didn't want to hear anymore about their fights. They seem to be more frequent these days.

 

One MAJOR thing that happened this week that could be what has helped open my eyes was... MM was over for dinner the other night and my kids were here (they have no idea we're anything more than friends) and my teenage son tells me after he leaves... "mom, don't take this the wrong way but sometimes MM is so darn full of himself." all I could do was laugh!

 

My son could see right thru him and I couldn't!!! Yet another reason to get away from MM

 

 

Smh....what a shame! Oh well....NEXXXT!

[eleanor01]

I think this is great advice heart.

 

I would bet if you stick to this, You'll start to see his true colors, because he will make it all about him. He won't have enough sense to pick up the tempo and focus on you. He'll just bellyache some more about him.

 

I agree with BB07 on this point.

 

He really does sound like a narcissist, which means that any behavior change is just to humor you until he feels like you've been sufficiently mollified. It seems to me that he doesn't have enough empathy to clue into what you may not want to be privy to.

 

NC is really hard and it seems like folks here have different strategies. I was in a really toxic relationship with a narcissist and I eventually just had to cut it off completely--no easing out. My advice is to figure out what's best for yourself and then decide how best to get there.

 

Good luck.

Ellie

[half_ofa_heart]

I agree with BB07 on this point.

 

He really does sound like a narcissist, which means that any behavior change is just to humor you until he feels like you've been sufficiently mollified. It seems to me that he doesn't have enough empathy to clue into what you may not want to be privy to.

 

NC is really hard and it seems like folks here have different strategies. I was in a really toxic relationship with a narcissist and I eventually just had to cut it off completely--no easing out. My advice is to figure out what's best for yourself and then decide how best to get there.

 

Good luck.

Ellie

 

Thanks Ellie,

 

I agree with you on the NC. I've tried it many times and it is something he notices which immediately puts him in crisis mode which i don't have the strength to fight. I think if I tried it this way, he might not notice it as much and I might be able to build the strength I need to get away. Kinda like a sneak escape

 

I would have to agree that he is indeed a narcissist. What worries me the most is that as strong as I thought I was... I wasn't strong enough to see it in the beginning.

 

Thanks again.

[eleanor01]

Thanks Ellie,

 

I agree with you on the NC. I've tried it many times and it is something he notices which immediately puts him in crisis mode which i don't have the strength to fight. I think if I tried it this way, he might not notice it as much and I might be able to build the strength I need to get away. Kinda like a sneak escape

 

I would have to agree that he is indeed a narcissist. What worries me the most is that as strong as I thought I was... I wasn't strong enough to see it in the beginning.

 

Thanks again.

 

However it works for you is the way to do it, then.

 

I really understand what you're saying about not being able to see it in the beginning. My marriage fell apart, but it wasn't toxic per se. However, the guy I dated and then moved in with after my divorce was so toxic that I cannot understand how I got myself sucked in, and even worse, stayed in. He was abusive and manipulative and nasty and a liar and I kept taking him back and giving him "just one more chance." I'm actually pretty strong and stable and I could not believe I was in the situation I was. So, when you say that "what worries [you] the most is that as strong as [you] that [you were]. . . I think that you should give yourself a break. It's amazing that this crap happens to strong, stable women, but sometimes it just does.

 

I wish for you the strength to do what you believe needs to be done.

 

Best,

Ellie

[Gentlegirl]

Question 1...Why does this man not have any male friends?

 

Thought... maybe they wouldn't trust him around their wives, or trust him peiod.

 

Question2....Why do you put up with him bitching about anything?

 

No thouhgts on this just why??????

 

Gentlegirl

[half_ofa_heart]

Question 1...Why does this man not have any male friends?

 

Thought... maybe they wouldn't trust him around their wives, or trust him peiod.

 

Question2....Why do you put up with him bitching about anything?

 

No thouhgts on this just why??????

 

Gentlegirl

 

Question 1 - Not exactly sure. He has acquaintances but no one that he can call on. It seems that neither him nor his wife have any "good" friends. They have had only each other for 20 years so perhaps that's it. I really don't know the answer to that question.

 

Question 2 - Like I would for any friend, I'd listen and give my thoughts and advice when needed. But where it's NOT like any other friend is that it concerns a relationship that I cannot be objective about.

 

I do need to learn to stop suffocating MY needs and listen to my gutt more often.

[Seraph1]

 

I agree with you on the NC. I've tried it many times and it is something he notices which immediately puts him in crisis mode which i don't have the strength to fight. I think if I tried it this way, he might not notice it as much and I might be able to build the strength I need to get away. Kinda like a sneak escape

 

I would have to agree that he is indeed a narcissist. What worries me the most is that as strong as I thought I was... I wasn't strong enough to see it in the beginning.

 

We go into relationships with people with a certain amount of trust that they will treat is with kindness, respect and dignity because it is how we would behave towards them! That we are lied to and pulled into a web of deception is not something that we expected.

 

I still beat myself up for not somehow KNOWING that I was being lied to and manipulated by someone that didn't have my interests at heart.

 

The same can be said for your MM. He does not have your care and best interests at heart. Nothing he has done has been to make YOU feel safe and secure. He isn't even really trying when you carefully look at it. He is giving you just enough to keep you around. Breadcrumbs when you deserve the whole cake!

 

Don't try to understand his motivations. You will do your head in and it will only lead to more confusion. NC is the way to go. NC is really No Choice when you think about it. You know that you deserve more and that you are worth more... the hardest part is taking the first step. I know the pain. I've lived with it for 7 months and there are still days that I hurt...like today.

 

But it really does get better....so much more slowly then you could want or hope... but it does happen. You have a lot of strength and a lot of heart... it's probably time to turn all that glorious love on yourself and focus on making yourself into the best person you can be for the NEXT love of your life!

[MissBee]

We go into relationships with people with a certain amount of trust that they will treat is with kindness, respect and dignity because it is how we would behave towards them! That we are lied to and pulled into a web of deception is not something that we expected.

 

I still beat myself up for not somehow KNOWING that I was being lied to and manipulated by someone that didn't have my interests at heart.

 

The same can be said for your MM. He does not have your care and best interests at heart. Nothing he has done has been to make YOU feel safe and secure. He isn't even really trying when you carefully look at it. He is giving you just enough to keep you around. Breadcrumbs when you deserve the whole cake!

 

Don't try to understand his motivations. You will do your head in and it will only lead to more confusion. NC is the way to go. NC is really No Choice when you think about it. You know that you deserve more and that you are worth more... the hardest part is taking the first step. I know the pain. I've lived with it for 7 months and there are still days that I hurt...like today.

But it really does get better....so much more slowly then you could want or hope... but it does happen. You have a lot of strength and a lot of heart... it's probably time to turn all that glorious love on yourself and focus on making yourself into the best person you can be for the NEXT love of your life!

 

Amazing post!

[half_ofa_heart]

We go into relationships with people with a certain amount of trust that they will treat is with kindness, respect and dignity because it is how we would behave towards them! That we are lied to and pulled into a web of deception is not something that we expected.

 

I still beat myself up for not somehow KNOWING that I was being lied to and manipulated by someone that didn't have my interests at heart.

 

The same can be said for your MM. He does not have your care and best interests at heart. Nothing he has done has been to make YOU feel safe and secure. He isn't even really trying when you carefully look at it. He is giving you just enough to keep you around. Breadcrumbs when you deserve the whole cake!

 

Don't try to understand his motivations. You will do your head in and it will only lead to more confusion. NC is the way to go. NC is really No Choice when you think about it. You know that you deserve more and that you are worth more... the hardest part is taking the first step. I know the pain. I've lived with it for 7 months and there are still days that I hurt...like today.

 

But it really does get better....so much more slowly then you could want or hope... but it does happen. You have a lot of strength and a lot of heart... it's probably time to turn all that glorious love on yourself and focus on making yourself into the best person you can be for the NEXT love of your life!

 

I'm starting to see this more and more these days. I have known he has "selfish" qualities and he goes so far to admit that he's selfish in a lot of ways. Because I grew up with a very abusive mother who always tried to break my spirit, I grew to be insecure and always put others needs ahead of my own. With IC I taught myself to put my own needs first which IMO is a form of being selfish. But I guess there's a difference in paying attention to YOUR needs and putting your needs first at the expense of others And that's how I'm starting to see MM's actions to be.

 

My heart is hurting but I'm not exactly sure why. Is it because I'm disappointed in myself for not seeing all this sooner?? Is it because I'm afraid I won't have the strength to be able end this affair??? I'm just glad that its the weekend and I CAN'T see him and speaking to him will be limited. I need space and time right now.

 

Thank you

[bentnotbroken]

Question 1...Why does this man not have any male friends?

 

Thought... maybe they wouldn't trust him around their wives, or trust him peiod.

 

Question2....Why do you put up with him bitching about anything?

 

No thouhgts on this just why??????

 

Gentlegirl

 

 

Mr. Messy is diagnosed NPD. He does not have male friends. He views them as a threat. He also views them as beneath him. And that other thing is most men don't trust him around their women.

[half_ofa_heart]

Mr. Messy is diagnosed NPD. He does not have male friends. He views them as a threat. He also views them as beneath him. And that other thing is most men don't trust him around their women.

 

What is NPD?

[bentnotbroken]

What is NPD?

 

 

Narcissistic Personality Disorder