Therapist or Lover???

[Spark1111]

Half a heart, there IS affair as a substitute for therapy, so be careful here.

 

It is a badly, mid-life crisising man who is blaming his wife for ALL his unhappiness.

 

And the more unhappy and angrier he becomes, the LESS she wants to be around him, or admire him, or flatter him. Can't blame her, can you?

 

So he grows angrier and their fights escalate and he runs to you to vent, vent, vent. Even if you NEVER comment, he assumes your quiet listening is validating all his misplaced anger projected onto her.

 

This is typically the man, that once a DDAY hits, drops you like a hot potato and goes grovelling back to her.

 

Stop this venting NOW. Because how he speaks of her will some day be how he speaks of you, IF you distance yourself and end it with him.

 

Rediculous anger, even at a marital partner, is a sure sign of depression in men especially.

 

Anger pushes people away from you. It frightens others and they no longer feel safe around you. It becomes self-fulfilling. Now they complain everyone is so mean to them. They'd rather blame others for their own unhappiness then do the hard work of fixing themselves.

 

Don't be his therapist. Don't believe your love and compassion can change him. It can't.

 

He needs to change himself.

[ladydesigner]

Half a heart, there IS affair as a substitute for therapy, so be careful here.

 

It is a badly, mid-life crisising man who is blaming his wife for ALL his unhappiness.

 

And the more unhappy and angrier he becomes, the LESS she wants to be around him, or admire him, or flatter him. Can't blame her, can you?

 

So he grows angrier and their fights escalate and he runs to you to vent, vent, vent. Even if you NEVER comment, he assumes your quiet listening is validating all his misplaced anger projected onto her.

 

This is typically the man, that once a DDAY hits, drops you like a hot potato and goes grovelling back to her.

 

Stop this venting NOW. Because how he speaks of her will some day be how he speaks of you, IF you distance yourself and end it with him.

 

Rediculous anger, even at a marital partner, is a sure sign of depression in men especially.

 

Anger pushes people away from you. It frightens others and they no longer feel safe around you. It becomes self-fulfilling. Now they complain everyone is so mean to them. They'd rather blame others for their own unhappiness then do the hard work of fixing themselves.

 

Don't be his therapist. Don't believe your love and compassion can change him. It can't.

 

He needs to change himself.

 

What a great post Spark. You are a brilliant woman. I have enjoyed what you have offered here at LS. Your posts are always thought provoking.

[half_ofa_heart]

Half a heart, there IS affair as a substitute for therapy, so be careful here.

 

It is a badly, mid-life crisising man who is blaming his wife for ALL his unhappiness.

 

And the more unhappy and angrier he becomes, the LESS she wants to be around him, or admire him, or flatter him. Can't blame her, can you?

 

So he grows angrier and their fights escalate and he runs to you to vent, vent, vent. Even if you NEVER comment, he assumes your quiet listening is validating all his misplaced anger projected onto her.

 

This is typically the man, that once a DDAY hits, drops you like a hot potato and goes grovelling back to her.

 

Stop this venting NOW. Because how he speaks of her will some day be how he speaks of you, IF you distance yourself and end it with him.

 

Rediculous anger, even at a marital partner, is a sure sign of depression in men especially.

 

Anger pushes people away from you. It frightens others and they no longer feel safe around you. It becomes self-fulfilling. Now they complain everyone is so mean to them. They'd rather blame others for their own unhappiness then do the hard work of fixing themselves.

 

Don't be his therapist. Don't believe your love and compassion can change him. It can't.

 

He needs to change himself.

 

I couldn't agree more on the bolded. Particularly the part about pushng people away... it's pushing ME away. I don't want to be around him or speak to him. It's just so toxic.

 

I only hope this isn't just a phase for me and it's actual strength!!!

 

Thank you Spark for your words of advice.

[fooled once]

Sorry H, I thought you were in NC mode and had broken up with your MM already..

 

He's putting you in a bad place and you are allowing it!

 

I HOPE you're coming near the end of your rope, sick of the crap. He isn't focussing on you at all, which means... Sorry to say this, but he isn't leaving her, he's happy having the A, keeping you as the OW. You provide something for him yet you are getting the short end of the stick!

 

What about YOU? Does he ever ask how you are doing? WHat's happening in your life? Care how you are feeling? Ever wonder or comment on the fact the type of stuff he's talking to you about is hurtful towards you? Considering your feelings? My guess is, no.

 

Great post WWIU!

 

This is VERY good advice and even better, something I think I can do.

 

About the bolded... He doesn't have anyone in his life to talk to besides me and his wife. He talks to me about the issues with his wife but he has NO ONE to talk to about his issues with me... I'm his dirtly little secret

 

This week, since the "sex conversation" I have been a little less available but that's just because I didn't want to hear anymore about their fights. They seem to be more frequent these days.

 

One MAJOR thing that happened this week that could be what has helped open my eyes was... MM was over for dinner the other night and my kids were here (they have no idea we're anything more than friends) and my teenage son tells me after he leaves... "mom, don't take this the wrong way but sometimes MM is so darn full of himself." all I could do was laugh!

 

My son could see right thru him and I couldn't!!! Yet another reason to get away from MM

 

Half I feel so sad for you. your own son can see what is right in front of you that you can't see. Your own son sees how arrogant and selfish he is. Why are those traits something you won't see? Why do you seem to think you can't break free? Where is your will? your determination? Your spirit? Sucked into a black hole dealing with a selfish, selfcentered jerk. You can break away; you are just choosing not to. The fact that he disrespected you so much to talk about sex with his wife :confused: I mean, that alone shows you doesn't care about you or your feelings. Please, open your eyes. Demand better for yourself. Not with him, because you have already allowed and set the stage for him to 'use' you. Cut him off. Tell him to go away. Why would you even want someone who obviously needs some major work done on his selfishness?

 

 

Question 1...Why does this man not have any male friends?

 

Thought... maybe they wouldn't trust him around their wives, or trust him peiod.

 

Question2....Why do you put up with him bitching about anything?

 

No thouhgts on this just why??????

 

Gentlegirl

 

Great questions Gentlegirl. Great!

[MissBee]

Mr. Messy is diagnosed NPD. He does not have male friends. He views them as a threat. He also views them as beneath him. And that other thing is most men don't trust him around their women.

 

Omg....my ex too! He said he didn't get along with males and had no male friends, only female friends, and I thought it was weird but didn't think much about it when we got together. In the end he did end up being a narcissist and EVERY strange thing that kind of stuck in my mind, like the friend thing, made perfect sense with that diagnosis.

[MorningCoffee]

Omg....my ex too! He said he didn't get along with males and had no male friends, only female friends, and I thought it was weird but didn't think much about it when we got together. In the end he did end up being a narcissist and EVERY strange thing that kind of stuck in my mind, like the friend thing, made perfect sense with that diagnosis.

 

As a guy, FWIW I suggest that a man with NPD does not take well to all the joshing and kidding around that guy friends do to each other when they are together. Oh, occasionally guys might have a serious conversation about something going on in one guy's life, maybe a problem with the guy's kid's behavior or something, but generally? guys get together to do stuff, and while they are at it, the just pitch each other a lot a shyte. All in good fun, of course, but a narcissist can't stand the banter, because he is so darned insecure and has so little sense of humor, that he is especially incapable of self-deprecation, even in jest. OP's MM sounds just like that kind of guy to me.

[MissBee]

As a guy, FWIW I suggest that a man with NPD does not take well to all the joshing and kidding around that guy friends do to each other when they are together. Oh, occasionally guys might have a serious conversation about something going on in one guy's life, maybe a problem with the guy's kid's behavior or something, but generally? guys get together to do stuff, and while they are at it, the just pitch each other a lot a shyte. All in good fun, of course, but a narcissist can't stand the banter, because he is so darned insecure and has so little sense of humor, that he is especially incapable of self-deprecation, even in jest. OP's MM sounds just like that kind of guy to me.

 

That was precisely my ex...his ONE male friend, was a gay man, go figure. I think he felt threatened by macho men or men with very masculine energy, all the stuff you mentioned, and his ego was overall just too fragile to hold his own among alpha males.

 

Funnily, he has a thing for strong females...but at the same time he can't handle it and then finds females that are very passive, submissive and who think he is the second coming. Then he gets bored of them and then tries to tell me I call him on his BS, he needs me in his life, he manipulated women but he hasn't done it to me, I'm the only gf he had no real reason to breakup with and the list went on...but ofcourse he could not sustain a real relationship with someone who wasn't stroking his ego and who demanded certain things of him and would run back to where it felt safe...then get bored...cycle restarts. Smh....

 

Also, he only has friends who have less education, less financial success, less everything than him, where they look to him as some guru. I thought that was very weird too and it all made sense in the end.

Edited August 13, 2011 by MissBee

[Summer Breeze]

Work on caring less and detaching. Not sayin' you have to dump him now, but get in the mindset of being in the process of ending it.

 

When he calls and talks about his wife and their problems, listen for a minute then say "I'm sorry do this to you but someone is at the door, I have to go" build up to it, each few days change it up.. "I'm sorry to do this to you, but I need to go, I'm feeling ill, think I'm coming down with the flu.." and take 2 days for yourself. don't answer his calls. Focus on you during that time. Forget him and his problems since he only cares about himself.

 

If he is that selfish, trust me, he has LOTS of others he talks to. Those types don't just pick one person. He probably does talk to his buddies about his stuff, co workers too. Don't feel obligated to him! YOu're not his wife, nor his therapist!

 

I want to reply to the original post first. He seldom talked about his W and when he did I started talking about someone I was dating and how I wasn't sure if I was ready to have him spend the night. He got the hint.

 

The quoted bit above is perfect. I never allowed the A to be the focus of my life and I never allowed him to treat me as an OW. We had a R and it was great. It was understood that I had a life because he had a life. To me it was quite similar to dating someone. When it was more than that and I wanted what he wasn't willing to give I ended it. I never allowed him to have the balance of power in the R. I think the advice above is perfect and gives you your power back. You need to feel that to be able to move on, whatever moving on may look like. If you end up with him you don't want to start on the back foot and if you find yourself serious about leaving you need to feel some control of yourself.

 

Luck to you hun!

[half_ofa_heart]

I want to reply to the original post first. He seldom talked about his W and when he did I started talking about someone I was dating and how I wasn't sure if I was ready to have him spend the night. He got the hint.

 

The quoted bit above is perfect. I never allowed the A to be the focus of my life and I never allowed him to treat me as an OW. We had a R and it was great. It was understood that I had a life because he had a life. To me it was quite similar to dating someone. When it was more than that and I wanted what he wasn't willing to give I ended it. I never allowed him to have the balance of power in the R. I think the advice above is perfect and gives you your power back. You need to feel that to be able to move on, whatever moving on may look like. If you end up with him you don't want to start on the back foot and if you find yourself serious about leaving you need to feel some control of yourself.

 

Luck to you hun!

 

Thank you. I've already started to distance myself. In the last 3 days, I've ignored more calls than I've answered. I've told him I'm not happy but it isn't the first time he's heard that so I'm sure that just went un-noticed. Weekends are easy to ignore him because he doesn't have a lot of opportunities to call me. Come Monday will be when he'll put on the pressure. I'm sure I'll be posting a lot by then.

 

Thanks to everyone.

[waytogo]

Half, may I ask how long you've been seeing this man? You seem so attached yet discusted by him. It took me 2 yrs to feel like that, so I was wondering.

 

Also, wanted to let you know getting away was so very freeing for me. With all his complaints, and what he says she complains about, let me guess, they are staying for the children? It is a very old and tired line.

[half_ofa_heart]

Half, may I ask how long you've been seeing this man? You seem so attached yet discusted by him. It took me 2 yrs to feel like that, so I was wondering.

 

Also, wanted to let you know getting away was so very freeing for me. With all his complaints, and what he says she complains about, let me guess, they are staying for the children? It is a very old and tired line.

 

We've been "together" for 2 years. Staying for the children is EXACTLY what he's doing and what she says is the "right" thing to do.

[waytogo]

We've been "together" for 2 years. Staying for the children is EXACTLY what he's doing and what she says is the "right" thing to do.

 

 

(((Half))), You sure have given plenty benefits of doubts. I always did b4 so I do relate. People who are really, but really done, don't stay for children. The poor kids are used as excuses till some selfish parents actually believe it and resent the innocent.

 

My brother D a few years ago, no A on either part. Both he and his xW were so careful about the 3 children's security. My brother is re-marrying by the end of this yr. My nephew helped pick a ring. My X sis-inlaw wishes all well and respects a new W will have influence over the children in some ways and is being involved about how, as a mother, she has certain ideas but respectful of the new marriage. This is how people who are really thinking only of children act. They don't let children be treated as stupid, sleeping in separate rooms and have separate lives while they all live in the same home.

[half_ofa_heart]

(((Half))), You sure have given plenty benefits of doubts. I always did b4 so I do relate. People who are really, but really done, don't stay for children. The poor kids are used as excuses till some selfish parents actually believe it and resent the innocent.

 

My brother D a few years ago, no A on either part. Both he and his xW were so careful about the 3 children's security. My brother is re-marrying by the end of this yr. My nephew helped pick a ring. My X sis-inlaw wishes all well and respects a new W will have influence over the children in some ways and is being involved about how, as a mother, she has certain ideas but respectful of the new marriage. This is how people who are really thinking only of children act. They don't let children be treated as stupid, sleeping in separate rooms and have separate lives while they all live in the same home.

 

I know exactly what you're talking about because I did the same thing when I divorced my husband. Neither of us left for anyone else and we always put the kids first. Thinking of them was precisely WHY i left. I was in IC and she asked me... "if your daughter was in your current situation what would your advice be to her?" my reply was quick "I'd pack her bags for her!" she then pointed out how do I expect my daughter to follow my advice when I can't do it myself. It was such an eye opener!!!

 

Their 4-year old daughter sleeps in between them. Both keep complaining about it and blaming the other. I'm just so damn tired of hearing about how "broken" their marriage is and how neither does a darn thing to change it. I need some space from him!!!

[waytogo]

I know exactly what you're talking about because I did the same thing when I divorced my husband. Neither of us left for anyone else and we always put the kids first. Thinking of them was precisely WHY i left. I was in IC and she asked me... "if your daughter was in your current situation what would your advice be to her?" my reply was quick "I'd pack her bags for her!" she then pointed out how do I expect my daughter to follow my advice when I can't do it myself. It was such an eye opener!!!

 

Their 4-year old daughter sleeps in between them. Both keep complaining about it and blaming the other. I'm just so damn tired of hearing about how "broken" their marriage is and how neither does a darn thing to change it. I need some space from him!!!

 

Whether I'm right or wrong, I really feel the reason the majority of spouses stray, is because someone makes it too easy to do so.

 

They can claim this martyr situation all they want. If they only lived for children or anyone else, then they would either stay in 'that misery' with dignity or leave to show children there are always choices.

 

It's always more than kids. Their 401K, other savings, as if the straying party was the only one who built anything. Just plain selfish

[half_ofa_heart]

Whether I'm right or wrong, I really feel the reason the majority of spouses stray, is because someone makes it too easy to do so.

 

They can claim this martyr situation all they want. If they only lived for children or anyone else, then they would either stay in 'that misery' with dignity or leave to show children there are always choices.

 

It's always more than kids. Their 401K, other savings, as if the straying party was the only one who built anything. Just plain selfish

 

The funny thing here is... He isn't staying because he thinks its the best thing for his child. He is staying be HE doesn't want to be without his child everyday. So you see, he is staying for purely selfish reasons. If he weren't selfish, he'd leave because he'd see that staying is not good for his child. At least, that's my opinion.

[TurboGirl]

Question 1...Why does this man not have any male friends?

 

Thought... maybe they wouldn't trust him around their wives, or trust him peiod.

 

Question2....Why do you put up with him bitching about anything?

 

No thouhgts on this just why??????

 

Gentlegirl

 

I thought that too. If he is a major whiner, that is why he has no friends. Guys tend not to like to hear whining - especially from another guy!

 

Extremely uncool about all that bi***n and complaining, UGH. Doesn't that just drain all of your energy? Not to mention, it is pretty self-centered and inconsiderate!