A Sorry Tale...

[EmeraldCityGirl]

I'm hesitant to even post this...for a forum that is purportedly for the OW/M, there seems to be a lot of anger towards those involved in EMR's. But, I am desperate for some advice and perspective, so here goes. Sorry for the length, but its a complicated situation. I've had to change some details to preserve my anonymity, but the general story is pretty accurate.

 

A few years ago, I met a man. I'll call him "J". He began to pursue me, contriving to "end up" in the same places as me, offering me rides and help with my child (I was in a tough spot at the time). At first I had no interest in him at all, but after about a month of spending time together I started to develop feelings for him, which he encouaged. One day, an acquaintance of mine (and a friend of his) stopped us on the street, and confronted J about spending time with me while he had a girlfriend at home. I was shocked. I knew he had kids, but I assumed that him and their mother were no longer together. I should have walked away right then and there, but I didn't. I had allowed my feelings for him to develop to such an extent that the thought of no longer seeing him was repugnant to me.

 

To J's credit, he immediately told his girlfriend that he had met someone else, and that he didn't want to be with her any longer. However, they were still living together, and neither was in a position to move into their own place. Months went by, during which (according to him) his ex-gf spent every moment making him miserable and guilty, even begging on hands and knees for one more chance. He went back to her. Then, broke up with her again and back to me. Then back to her.

 

Then, to my shame, I became involved in a clandestine affair with this man. We spent months meeting up, having fantastic sex, taking day trips, generally behaving as though she didn't exist. But she did exist. And she found out. It was a horrible, horrible time for all of us. J and I didn't speak for a few months. He contacted me once, but I was involved with someone else and declined his invitation to meet up. A couple of months after that, my new relationship was on the skids, and J once again contacted me. He was no longer living with his gf, and asked if we could be friends. I saw him a few times over the next couple months, but was careful to keep things platonic. After I finally broke up with my bf, however, J and I once again became involved sexually.

 

Then, he told me he had to move back in with his ex-gf, that he could no longer stay where he had been, and that he had nowhere else to go (unless I wanted him to move in with me. I didn't). He promised me that they were working on being friends, and that this was a temporary arrangement. His "ex"gf and I have gotten to know each other over the course of the years, and though mutually distrustful, I don't think either of us can find it in our hearts to truly dislike the other. She is a pretty, intelligent woman, and her and I think alike about many things. It turns out (I'm sure you'll all be SHOCKED) that they weren't broken up at all. I confronted J about this, and he admitted he hadn't been entirely honest with me. He has no job at the moment, and no money...and therefore no place to live if she kicks him out (she works as an electrician, pays rent and all the bills; he takes care of the three kids). He says he needs to "keep the peace" by "telling her what she wants to hear" until he can work and save enough money to move out.

 

This is the skeleton of the story: there have been a lot of things that have happened over the years that would be at home on any daytime TV show. Its been sordid and ridiculous at times, and painful and humiliating. But I also have never had a connection with anyone like I do with J, ever. I have never really felt another person the way I feel him. When we are together the world disappears, and it is beautiful. He slept over with me the other night, and I just held him while he cried. He's not a monster: selfish, yes; weak, yes...but not a monster. I know this has hurt him at least as much as it has hurt her and I. I know he's in love with me, but I also know he loves and feels protective over her. I feel like I have been in limbo for years with this man, waiting passively for him to finally make a decision. I know I will never truly be able to move on while he is still keeping contact with me, but I don't know how much longer I can wait for this to be resolved. She deserves better, I deserve better...even j deserves better.

 

I am uncomfortable with ultimata, but I think in this case perhaps one is in order. Not "do as I wish or I disappear", but maybe setting a date by which he needs to move into his own apt. Or, make the choice to stay in his current relationship and give her the focus that she deserves...and promise to finally go ZERO contact with me. Something has to give, one way or another...

 

Thoughts?

Edited August 12, 2011 by EmeraldCityGirl
TMI

[EmeraldCityGirl]

Hmmm...why when I edited the post did the previous version remain? And how do I delete that post?

[Silly_Girl]

Hi ECG. Something I learned was that you really only can control yourself. No matter what you want HIM to do, you're in charge of you. He could make a billion promises, and break them all. Or promise nothing and surprise you entirely.

 

Speak to him about how you feel, but rather than talk about it in terms of what you expect from him, I suggest you talk about what you want from life, from a relationship, what makes YOU happy, and ask him if he can give you that. Can he offer you intimacy and an exclusive, honest relationship? Because if not, if that's not a real and imminent prospect and it matters to you, I suggest you set about seeking the life YOU want. That means looking at a relationship away from this guy with the components you need.

 

In short, go do your own thing if he won't commit. Your goal has to be YOUR happiness. Some people can find happiness within the affair scenario and it works for them. If it doesn't work for you, make changes

[EmeraldCityGirl]

Thanks for the reply, Silly Girl.

 

At this point, I know he can't give me what I need in the way of a relationship. I told him the other night that we can't keep going in this way, and he agrees. The problem is, he's asking me to wait almost a year (I can't get into the reasons, as they're pretty specific, but they are valid) for him to exit his home and relationship. I wouldn't have a problem waiting (I've waited years already), but I just can't trust that he'll be able to go through with it once that year is up. We've been down this road before.

 

The only thing I can control is no contact on my end, which I've tried before. He always ends up contacting/running into me. We also have many mutual friends and often end up in the same places. I've seriously considered moving away as a solution to all of this, but I can't take my child away from our family.

 

And, I don't know if I'm really ready to let him go. I could change my number, move to another house, turn and walk away if I run into him, etc...but if I'm honest with myself, I don't want to do that. I don't know what the final straw will be for me. I've let so much happen already. Maybe I have no 'breaking point', and that scares the hell out of me. This has been going on for years; the thought of it becoming a decade makes me sick to my stomach

[whichwayisup]

It turns out (I'm sure you'll all be SHOCKED) that they weren't broken up at all. I confronted J about this, and he admitted he hadn't been entirely honest with me. He has no job at the moment, and no money...and therefore no place to live if she kicks him out (she works as an electrician, pays rent and all the bills; he takes care of the three kids). He says he needs to "keep the peace" by "telling her what she wants to hear" until he can work and save enough money to move out.

 

One word..Drama!!!!!!

 

If you choose to stay with him your life will be filled with heartache and drama. This guy has baggage! Big time!

 

Do yourself a list. All the good stuff and all the bad stuff, write it down.

 

This guy is and has knowingly LIED to you, so now how can you believe him?

 

Go with your gut. If you aren't sure, back off and watch his actions. focus on you and your own life, don't get sucked into his.

[whichwayisup]

Thanks for the reply, Silly Girl.

 

At this point, I know he can't give me what I need in the way of a relationship. I told him the other night that we can't keep going in this way, and he agrees. The problem is, he's asking me to wait almost a year (I can't get into the reasons, as they're pretty specific, but they are valid) for him to exit his home and relationship. I wouldn't have a problem waiting (I've waited years already), but I just can't trust that he'll be able to go through with it once that year is up. We've been down this road before.

 

The only thing I can control is no contact on my end, which I've tried before. He always ends up contacting/running into me. We also have many mutual friends and often end up in the same places. I've seriously considered moving away as a solution to all of this, but I can't take my child away from our family.

 

And, I don't know if I'm really ready to let him go. I could change my number, move to another house, turn and walk away if I run into him, etc...but if I'm honest with myself, I don't want to do that. I don't know what the final straw will be for me. I've let so much happen already. Maybe I have no 'breaking point', and that scares the hell out of me. This has been going on for years; the thought of it becoming a decade makes me sick to my stomach

 

It's time to seek out some counselling and straighten out your life so you can make better choices that won't kill your heart and make your life seem like a roller coaster ride.

 

You DO have a breaking point! Though I do believe you're scared of the unknown and addicted to what you know. Don't be afraid of ending it! or the pain you'll feel. The thing is, you end it, the pain is FINAL. It's grieving and then knowing no more of this..And that.. And one day you will realize ending it saved you.

[eleanor01]

Thanks for the reply, Silly Girl.

 

This has been going on for years; the thought of it becoming a decade makes me sick to my stomach

 

Hey, EC,

 

It occurs to me that if you're not exaggerating, you've got your answer right here. If your negative emotions about this guy and your situation are strong enough that you feel like puking, well then, it is time to protect yourself. I'm awfully sorry that this is happening to you. It sounds dreadful.

 

Best to you,

Ellie

[fooled once]

You have the power to make a decision.

 

Make it.

 

Either suck it up and continue to be his hidden mistress.

End the relationship until he grows up to be a man and not a pathetic user.

 

He is using his girlfriend.

He has lied repeatedly to you. How the hell do you ever trust him after all the lies?

He manipulates both of you.

What are you teaching your child?

 

Accept your current role or demand better. It really isn't that hard.

[EmeraldCityGirl]

I can't believe him. I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out which of his words are true, which lies, which may contain kernels of truth, etc. It's pretty damn silly. My rational mind knows that there is no way to build any kind of healthy relationship on the rotten foundation we have right now; that even if he were to move out today and call it quits with her forever, all I would have on my hands is a man that cheated on his last gf, lied to me, and manipulated us both repeatedly to further his own selfish ends. Not exactly the prince charming I dreamed of as a girl

 

But reason has flown out the window...I think whoever said I'm afraid of the unknown may be right. I feel like I've invested so MUCH time in this person, that to give up on him now would be...defeatist. Sweet Jesus that sounds ridiculous. I am making excuses for myself. I think I am addicted to the devil I know, and terrified of starting over, DATING (shudder)...

 

I keep thinking that maybe this time it will work. When its good, its very, very good. I do love him. But I don't know if he really loves me. If you love someone, you don't treat them the way he's treated both her and myself.

 

A list is a good idea. I'm going to do one now: good things, bad things. I already know which one is going to stretch around the block.

[Tenacity]

You have the power to make a decision.

 

Make it.

 

Either suck it up and continue to be his hidden mistress.

End the relationship until he grows up to be a man and not a pathetic user.

 

He is using his girlfriend.

He has lied repeatedly to you. How the hell do you ever trust him after all the lies?

He manipulates both of you.

What are you teaching your child?

 

Accept your current role or demand better. It really isn't that hard.

 

The thing is, fooled once.... it really IS that hard.

 

As much as I respect you and like you and admire your advice... it IS that hard. It is easy to KNOW what the right thing is... to hear it from others and know it yourself. If it were easy to implement it, none of us would be here. It just isn't as easy as you would like it to be from all your posts which are always "just DO it".

 

OP.... I don't know. Perhaps I should stop posting here, because I recognize what you are going through and I don't have the answers. I no longer believe in no contact or that things will ever get better. I am starting to believe in fate and in destiny and that I have already met the only person who mattered to me, but it wasn't destined to work out. I no longer believe in "moving on" and finding another relationship because I no longer want any other relationship.

 

So, I don't have the answer, but I do understand the pain.

[woinlove]

ECG, what you write of this man reminds me of my xMM. I moved on right around the time his divorce was final. I didn't need monogamy or a full-time partner, but I decided I didn't want to spend my time with someone who didn't share my values for honesty and openness. He claimed he did, but his actions said otherwise. So, he divorced, I left, and he then went through a few R's before I lost track, the R's overlapping as much as the two women in each case would put up with.

 

You can't change him, so my advice is to either accept him as he is (and if its not going to be his gf/xgf, it may be someone else) or move on. If you decide you'd rather have him in your life, I think it's best not to expect honesty and openness. It'll save you some hurt.

[bentnotbroken]

The thing is, fooled once.... it really IS that hard.

 

As much as I respect you and like you and admire your advice... it IS that hard. It is easy to KNOW what the right thing is... to hear it from others and know it yourself. If it were easy to implement it, none of us would be here. It just isn't as easy as you would like it to be from all your posts which are always "just DO it".

 

OP.... I don't know. Perhaps I should stop posting here, because I recognize what you are going through and I don't have the answers. I no longer believe in no contact or that things will ever get better. I am starting to believe in fate and in destiny and that I have already met the only person who mattered to me, but it wasn't destined to work out. I no longer believe in "moving on" and finding another relationship because I no longer want any other relationship.

 

So, I don't have the answer, but I do understand the pain.

 

Just do it isn't easy at all. But it isn't impossible if it is what you want. When you waffle...it's because you either don't know what you want or don't give a damn as long as it makes you feel good. It isn't easy to restart a life(I know, deciding you don't like the position you are in and doing whatever is possible to change it, even if it is a half a step at a time is what she is talking about). Pain isn't absent of any responsibility.

[woinlove]

 

But reason has flown out the window...I think whoever said I'm afraid of the unknown may be right. I feel like I've invested so MUCH time in this person, that to give up on him now would be...defeatist. Sweet Jesus that sounds ridiculous. I am making excuses for myself. I think I am addicted to the devil I know, and terrified of starting over, DATING (shudder)...

 

You said it - sounds ridiculous. You have the rest of your life and it could be a really great one - the question is how great will it be with this man. If honesty and faithfulness aren't important to you, it could be fine.

 

I keep thinking that maybe this time it will work. When its good, its very, very good. I do love him. But I don't know if he really loves me. If you love someone, you don't treat them the way he's treated both her and myself.

 

I suspect he loves you as much as he is capable of loving someone. Probably loves his other gf that way too. Not everyone is capable of deep love and commitment.

[fooled once]

The thing is, fooled once.... it really IS that hard.

 

As much as I respect you and like you and admire your advice... it IS that hard. It is easy to KNOW what the right thing is... to hear it from others and know it yourself. If it were easy to implement it, none of us would be here. It just isn't as easy as you would like it to be from all your posts which are always "just DO it".

 

OP.... I don't know. Perhaps I should stop posting here, because I recognize what you are going through and I don't have the answers. I no longer believe in no contact or that things will ever get better. I am starting to believe in fate and in destiny and that I have already met the only person who mattered to me, but it wasn't destined to work out. I no longer believe in "moving on" and finding another relationship because I no longer want any other relationship.

 

So, I don't have the answer, but I do understand the pain.

 

But it IS easy to truly LOOK at the situation. By looking at it, even the OP knows the list of pro's and con's --- the con's will out number the 'good' probably 10-1.

 

I have been through hell in my life (as many others have). I had the choice each time to go down certain paths. To stand in a circle, wringing my hands, was NOT an option (I do realize for some, it is their option. I have a hard time understanding it I will admit). Nothing in life is truly "easy". Heck, MARRIAGE isn't easy, being a parent isn't easy, being a good employee isn't easy. But most of us strive to be the best we can possibly be with whatever decision we make.

 

What is so hard about deciding you deserve better? What is hard about knowing deep down that something is "wrong"? What is hard about expecting honesty from someone?

 

Tenacity, your post made me so sad. It doesn't sound like the strong woman I believe you are. Something is bothering you/upsetting you. I am not sure what; but I hope you can pick yourself up. The MM is not the salvation so many believe he is. Life is what we make it. If you (general you) want to remain a mistress or be in an affair, have at it. Just make sure you have no expectations and will accept the crumbs you are given. Doesn't affect my life. But why in heaven's name do women think they are NOTHING without a man? I cannot understand that. A relationship should be a BONUS in our lives; not the be-end-all of our lives. No one should only be happy/content when in a relationship. We should be happy within ourselves. A relationship adds to our life, but shouldn't BE our life. Please don't stop posting. Please. If you want to PM me, please do. I don't want you to leave, as I think you bring so much to LS. I think so many can learn from you.

 

I never said it doesn't hurt. I DO understand the pain. I have had worse pain in my life than the ending of an affair. I have lost people - through death or other circumstances. I am not saying it doesn't hurt; but we do go on, even with pain in our lives. You know the phrase -- No pain No gain. We go through pain and we come out the other side; sometimes changed individuals. I do believe we learn something through every relationship we have - good and bad; friendship or love; etc.

 

 

Just do it isn't easy at all. But it isn't impossible if it is what you want. When you waffle...it's because you either don't know what you want or don't give a damn as long as it makes you feel good. It isn't easy to restart a life(I know, deciding you don't like the position you are in and doing whatever is possible to change it, even if it is a half a step at a time is what she is talking about). Pain isn't absent of any responsibility.

 

Bent said what I was trying to say. Starting a new life isn't easy; but it isn't horrible. It is a new chapter. It is a new journey. It is change. Some people (like me) embrace change; some fight it tooth and nail. Change = growth to me.

 

I hate seeing women think their self worth is wrapped in some guy I hate it when woman do not respect themselves. I hate seeing women lose their self respect and dignity.

 

No one should live a life that brings them more misery than happiness. No one should live a life that is devoid of joy. No one should live a life that is constant worry and constant anxiety. We as humans are given so many choices and options. It is up to us to take those options and run with them.

 

I have a dear friend whose 10 year old was in a horrible accident a week ago. His life is touch and go right now. She is a mess, rightfully so. Life is so damn short. Do NOT waste it waiting on anyone. Do NOT waste it on ANYTHING. Live each day as if it were your last; because you never know what is going to happen. My girlfriend finds comfort that the last words she said to her son were "I love you, be careful". Do you know how many people lose someone they love unexpectedly who never got a chance to say those words prior to losing their loved one? Too many.

 

Live life; don't stand by and watch it go by!

Edited August 15, 2011 by fooled once

[Seraph1]

But you already know that you are in an unhealthy relationship that has stalled and isn't going to change any time soon... unless you bring the change to it.

 

He is a liar. He is NOT a monster...but the relationship that he and you share has become twisted to the point where it is HURTING you. Walk away with your head held high and your dignity in tact. This is your power and your choice.

 

Let him feel the void of your absence. Let him know what life is like without you... and let him suffer for the choices that he has made and continues to make. If he comes back to you down the track free and wanting a future... you will have a chance to decide what you want to do WITHOUT the fresh and painful emotions of a current relationship to blind you.

 

Good luck. Leaving is hard and the couple of months after it will be awful...but I promise that it gets better and that life will be good again.

[Tenacity]

But it IS easy to truly LOOK at the situation. By looking at it, even the OP knows the list of pro's and con's --- the con's will out number the 'good' probably 10-1.

 

I have been through hell in my life (as many others have). I had the choice each time to go down certain paths. To stand in a circle, wringing my hands, was NOT an option (I do realize for some, it is their option. I have a hard time understanding it I will admit). Nothing in life is truly "easy". Heck, MARRIAGE isn't easy, being a parent isn't easy, being a good employee isn't easy. But most of us strive to be the best we can possibly be with whatever decision we make.

 

What is so hard about deciding you deserve better? What is hard about knowing deep down that something is "wrong"? What is hard about expecting honesty from someone?

 

Tenacity, your post made me so sad. It doesn't sound like the strong woman I believe you are. Something is bothering you/upsetting you. I am not sure what; but I hope you can pick yourself up. The MM is not the salvation so many believe he is. Life is what we make it. If you (general you) want to remain a mistress or be in an affair, have at it. Just make sure you have no expectations and will accept the crumbs you are given. Doesn't affect my life. But why in heaven's name do women think they are NOTHING without a man? I cannot understand that. A relationship should be a BONUS in our lives; not the be-end-all of our lives. No one should only be happy/content when in a relationship. We should be happy within ourselves. A relationship adds to our life, but shouldn't BE our life. Please don't stop posting. Please. If you want to PM me, please do. I don't want you to leave, as I think you bring so much to LS. I think so many can learn from you.

 

I never said it doesn't hurt. I DO understand the pain. I have had worse pain in my life than the ending of an affair. I have lost people - through death or other circumstances. I am not saying it doesn't hurt; but we do go on, even with pain in our lives. You know the phrase -- No pain No gain. We go through pain and we come out the other side; sometimes changed individuals. I do believe we learn something through every relationship we have - good and bad; friendship or love; etc.

 

 

 

Bent said what I was trying to say. Starting a new life isn't easy; but it isn't horrible. It is a new chapter. It is a new journey. It is change. Some people (like me) embrace change; some fight it tooth and nail. Change = growth to me.

 

I hate seeing women think their self worth is wrapped in some guy I hate it when woman do not respect themselves. I hate seeing women lose their self respect and dignity.

 

No one should live a life that brings them more misery than happiness. No one should live a life that is devoid of joy. No one should live a life that is constant worry and constant anxiety. We as humans are given so many choices and options. It is up to us to take those options and run with them.

 

I have a dear friend whose 10 year old was in a horrible accident a week ago. His life is touch and go right now. She is a mess, rightfully so. Life is so damn short. Do NOT waste it waiting on anyone. Do NOT waste it on ANYTHING. Live each day as if it were your last; because you never know what is going to happen. My girlfriend finds comfort that the last words she said to her son were "I love you, be careful". Do you know how many people lose someone they love unexpectedly who never got a chance to say those words prior to losing their loved one? Too many.

 

Live life; don't stand by and watch it go by!

 

Thank you, f_o (hey... that's not a very good acronym Gee, glad I can still laugh at something).

 

I hear what you are saying. I have always been a "stong" woman. Career-wise, mother-wise, daughter-wise, relationship-wise.... everything.

 

For some reason, although I can see that your words are true (and I tell myself those words daily) I'm having trouble living it.

 

BUT... my self-worth, happiness, future,.... etc.... is NOT wrapped up in this guy or ANY guy. I am not about to start back into the A. Never again. Right now I am just trying to pick up the many, tiny, little pieces of my life that right now are in shards at my feet, put them back together again in some semblance of how things were before all of this, and find a way to build a completely new life. It just seems overwhelming right now. I know.... left foot, right foot....

 

I too have lost more than this, but it was part of this too. I lost a child at 24 weeks... his child. It was something I did not include in my original sordid story here because certainly there was enough there without all of that, and I would have received brutal attacks for it and I just could not deal with it. I had her alone, mourned her death alone. I never told him about her at that time (he broke it off with me to go back to his W when I was 10 weeks pregnant with her). She lived for a few hours.

 

I did finally tell him about her, but he accused me of making it up to get his attention. To this day he refuses to acknowledge that she ever existed. That is one thing that I am having a horrible time getting past. She would be a toddler now.

 

And no, it wasn't planned. We used protection.

 

It's really just so much loss that building a completely new life is just overwhelming. I am still strong.

[Silly_Girl]

Tenacity, I didn't really like the fact you were being criticised for 'not being strong'. I think sometimes it takes more strength to be realistic.

 

Occasionally, for me, the responses can be a little hardback-fairy-tale-book. Lots of us know exactly what, if we were to write it down, should happen - and even in what order. But being realistic about what we can do at that point, how we feel, what we want/need etc, I think that takes courage.

 

I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I wish sunnier times ahead for you.

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you, f_o (hey... that's not a very good acronym Gee, glad I can still laugh at something).

 

I hear what you are saying. I have always been a "stong" woman. Career-wise, mother-wise, daughter-wise, relationship-wise.... everything.

 

For some reason, although I can see that your words are true (and I tell myself those words daily) I'm having trouble living it.

 

BUT... my self-worth, happiness, future,.... etc.... is NOT wrapped up in this guy or ANY guy. I am not about to start back into the A. Never again. Right now I am just trying to pick up the many, tiny, little pieces of my life that right now are in shards at my feet, put them back together again in some semblance of how things were before all of this, and find a way to build a completely new life. It just seems overwhelming right now. I know.... left foot, right foot....

 

I too have lost more than this, but it was part of this too. I lost a child at 24 weeks... his child. It was something I did not include in my original sordid story here because certainly there was enough there without all of that, and I would have received brutal attacks for it and I just could not deal with it. I had her alone, mourned her death alone. I never told him about her at that time (he broke it off with me to go back to his W when I was 10 weeks pregnant with her). She lived for a few hours.

 

I did finally tell him about her, but he accused me of making it up to get his attention. To this day he refuses to acknowledge that she ever existed. That is one thing that I am having a horrible time getting past. She would be a toddler now.

 

And no, it wasn't planned. We used protection.

 

It's really just so much loss that building a completely new life is just overwhelming. I am still strong.

 

 

How were the pyramids built? One stone at at time. Overwhelming just means you pick small goals to accomplish in order to reach an end result.

[fooled once]

Thank you, f_o (hey... that's not a very good acronym Gee, glad I can still laugh at something).

 

I hear what you are saying. I have always been a "stong" woman. Career-wise, mother-wise, daughter-wise, relationship-wise.... everything.

 

For some reason, although I can see that your words are true (and I tell myself those words daily) I'm having trouble living it.

 

BUT... my self-worth, happiness, future,.... etc.... is NOT wrapped up in this guy or ANY guy. I am not about to start back into the A. Never again. Right now I am just trying to pick up the many, tiny, little pieces of my life that right now are in shards at my feet, put them back together again in some semblance of how things were before all of this, and find a way to build a completely new life. It just seems overwhelming right now. I know.... left foot, right foot....

 

**Did you miss the positive above? You will never ever start back into the affair! YES! Good girl. Celebrate THAT victory. I know it hurts hon, I truly do. BUT you also made a great decision - to never again participate in an affair. Rebuilding a new life will be an adventure. You will get to decide how that life goes. (hugs)

 

I too have lost more than this, but it was part of this too. I lost a child at 24 weeks... his child. It was something I did not include in my original sordid story here because certainly there was enough there without all of that, and I would have received brutal attacks for it and I just could not deal with it. I had her alone, mourned her death alone. I never told him about her at that time (he broke it off with me to go back to his W when I was 10 weeks pregnant with her). She lived for a few hours.

 

**I am so sorry for your loss. I lost a child too many years ago. The strangest thing was when I got pregnant with my son, he was due 1 week later than my previous pregnancy. I struggled with getting past the time that I had lost my previous child; and my family was frantic with wanting me to be in a bubble to protect me from that happening again. You were given a few hours with your daughter; and that is a blessing. God, I am just so sorry for your loss ((hugs))

I did finally tell him about her, but he accused me of making it up to get his attention. To this day he refuses to acknowledge that she ever existed. That is one thing that I am having a horrible time getting past. She would be a toddler now.

 

**And that shows you the kind of pig the xMM was. Honey, you cannot make him believe you, you cannot make him grieve, you cannot stay angry at his lack of 'give a crap'. Focus on you. Focus on healing your heart from your loss. Focus on being able to have her just for a short period of time. She will always be your spirit baby and will always be watching over you. I know she has a playmate in Heaven, my sweet niece who also died (she was 3). Know that she is waiting for the day for you and her to meet. Let her give you strength to move forward and to honor her.

 

And no, it wasn't planned. We used protection.

 

It's really just so much loss that building a completely new life is just overwhelming. I am still strong.

 

Responses above in bold.

 

I am amazed at you. I am in awe of you. I want you to be proud of you and proud of how you are moving forward. Please please.... forgive yourself and let any hate/anger go. It is taking up precious space in your heart. Let your daughter's memory replace that. I know, I know - easier said than done. But do it for her. Show her what an amazing mom you are. Show her how her short, short life impacted you in a great way; honor her memory. Please stay strong for her. ((hugs))

 

I'm here if you need to talk.

 

And Silly, stop with your barbs. This isn't about you; its about Tenacity. Take it to PM if you have an issue with me.

[Silly_Girl]

And Silly, stop with your barbs. This isn't about you; its about Tenacity. Take it to PM if you have an issue with me.

 

100% of my post was for and about the OP. So back off or report.

[EmeraldCityGirl]

I'm hesitant to even post this...for a forum that is purportedly for the OW/M, there seems to be a lot of anger towards those involved in EMR's. But, I am desperate for some advice and perspective, so here goes. Sorry for the length, but its a complicated situation. I've had to change some details to preserve my anonymity, but the general story is pretty accurate.

 

A few years ago, I met a man. I'll call him "J". He began to pursue me, contriving to "end up" in the same places as me, offering me rides and help with my child (I was in a tough spot at the time). At first I had no interest in him at all, but after about a month of spending time together I started to develop feelings for him, which he encouaged. One day, an acquaintance of mine (and a friend of his) stopped us on the street, and confronted J about spending time with me while he had a girlfriend at home. I was shocked. I knew he had kids, but I assumed that him and their mother were no longer together. I should have walked away right then and there, but I didn't. I had allowed my feelings for him to develop to such an extent that the thought of no longer seeing him was repugnant to me.

 

To J's credit, he immediately told his girlfriend that he had met someone else, and that he didn't want to be with her any longer. However, they were still living together, and neither was in a position to move into their own place. Months went by, during which (according to him) his ex-gf spent every moment making him miserable and guilty, even begging on hands and knees for one more chance. He went back to her. Then, broke up with her again and back to me. Then back to her.

 

Then, to my shame, I became involved in a clandestine affair with this man. We spent months meeting up, having fantastic sex, taking day trips, generally behaving as though she didn't exist. But she did exist. And she found out. It was a horrible, horrible time for all of us. J and I didn't speak for a few months. He contacted me once, but I was involved with someone else and declined his invitation to meet up. A couple of months after that, my new relationship was on the skids, and J once again contacted me. He was no longer living with his gf, and asked if we could be friends. I saw him a few times over the next couple months, but was careful to keep things platonic. After I finally broke up with my bf, however, J and I once again became involved sexually.

 

Then, he told me he had to move back in with his ex-gf, that he could no longer stay where he had been, and that he had nowhere else to go (unless I wanted him to move in with me. I didn't). He promised me that they were working on being friends, and that this was a temporary arrangement. His "ex"gf and I have gotten to know each other over the course of the years, and though mutually distrustful, I don't think either of us can find it in our hearts to truly dislike the other. She is a pretty, intelligent woman, and her and I think alike about many things. It turns out (I'm sure you'll all be SHOCKED) that they weren't broken up at all. I confronted J about this, and he admitted he hadn't been entirely honest with me. He has no job at the moment, and no money...and therefore no place to live if she kicks him out (she works as an electrician, pays rent and all the bills; he takes care of the three kids). He says he needs to "keep the peace" by "telling her what she wants to hear" until he can work and save enough money to move out.

 

This is the skeleton of the story: there have been a lot of things that have happened over the years that would be at home on any daytime TV show. Its been sordid and ridiculous at times, and painful and humiliating. But I also have never had a connection with anyone like I do with J, ever. I have never really felt another person the way I feel him. When we are together the world disappears, and it is beautiful. He slept over with me the other night, and I just held him while he cried. He's not a monster: selfish, yes; weak, yes...but not a monster. I know this has hurt him at least as much as it has hurt her and I. I know he's in love with me, but I also know he loves and feels protective over her. I feel like I have been in limbo for years with this man, waiting passively for him to finally make a decision. I know I will never truly be able to move on while he is still keeping contact with me, but I don't know how much longer I can wait for this to be resolved. She deserves better, I deserve better...even j deserves better.

 

I am uncomfortable with ultimata, but I think in this case perhaps one is in order. Not "do as I wish or I disappear", but maybe setting a date by which he needs to move into his own apt. Or, make the choice to stay in his current relationship and give her the focus that she deserves...and promise to finally go ZERO contact with me. Something has to give, one way or another...

 

Thoughts?

Hello everyone, it’s been a while since I’ve posted here, but I wanted to give an update on my situation, and perhaps offer some perspective to others in my situation.

 

I know it's very, VERY rare for MM to actually, permanently, leave their wives. I know many OW hope and pray and wait, dreaming that one day their MM will suddenly see the light and leave his W. MM and OW will then begin to live their happily ever after. What is far, far more common is for MM to suddenly (and conveniently) recall their vows, and decide their “conscience” cannot allow them to continue the affair (this epiphany almost always occurs immediately after a D-day). The OW is left alone and broken, choking on her own misery. I know, because I’ve been there. I know that pain, and it is awful.

In this case, things played out differently.

 

After posting here about my affair and the limbo I felt I was stuck in, and reading the thoughtful responses from LS members, I spent a few days thinking things over. I thought about what I wanted, and what I deserved as a woman and a human being. I thought about all the pain I had already experienced, and all that was likely to come if I stayed the present course. Most of all, I thought about what I was teaching my young daughter, about relationships, about men, about respect and self-worth.

 

I came to the decision that this particular journey was over for me. I was really and truly (finally!) done. I had told MM before that I couldn’t continue seeing him, in hopes that facing the prospect of life without me would spur him to “PICK” me, to leave his wife for good. It never worked. He knew, and I knew, that my threat was an empty one, with zero substance and even less staying power. This time was different. This time, I didn’t care what he did or didn’t do. I had come to the realization that the only person I could control was myself. The only hand I could force was my own, and that it was up to me to free myself from a situation in which the pain far outweighed the pleasure.

 

I sat down with MM and told him that I loved him, and always would in a way; that I wished him and his wife well, but that it was long past time for me to move on with my life. I wanted and needed more than he was willing to give. I knew he loved me, just not enough. If he had a finalized divorce and a place of his own, I would be willing to talk to him again. Otherwise, I asked that he not contact me. I hugged him (he looked stunned) and left. I felt like I left the weight of the world behind me. I felt free. Don’t get me wrong, there was pain, unbelievable pain. I cried until I literally had no tears left. I hurt, I isolated myself and second-guessed my choice. But it got better. Slowly, it got better.

 

About six months after my last meeting with MM, I got a text from him asking to meet me. He was living on his own, and had actually gotten a divorce. It was my turn to be stunned. After all the years, and all the misery, it was done. I had mixed feelings about agreeing to meet, wondered if he was lying, and if so was I setting my healing back months, etc. To make a long story a little less long, I did meet him. He was telling the truth.

 

We got married last summer. I won’t say its all been smooth sailing, because I doubt any marriage is. I will say that when you go from Mistress to Wife, you inherit all the trust issues that his ex must have dealt with. Its hard to keep myself from grabbing his phone and reading his texts; I listen in on his phone conversations when I can. Hopefully with time these trust issues will be resolved…or I will end up in his ex’s shoes in more ways than one. That’s the chance I took when I married my affair partner.

 

If I could go back and change the choices that led me here, would I? Yes. I love my husband more than I can express, but there are many good men out there, men that don’t bring a lifetimes worth of suffering before you even say “I do.” ~ECG

[woinlove]

Thanks for updating, Emerald, and I hope things work out for you.

 

I made a different choice and ended things even though xMM divorced and wanted us to be together - for exactly the reasons you mention, trust.

 

When MM reconcile with their BW, we read about all the work they need to do to change. Usually this involves MC, IC and a lot of soul searching on their part, and a noticeable change in behavior, in boundaries, in communication, etc. I think the same amount of work needs to be done when they end up with the AP. If you two go through that together, that could resolve the trust issues. In my case, xMM only wanted to change partners, not change himself. So I wasn't interested. He did repeat his behavior with his next partner, although it took 6 or so years. I really hope your case is different and I think it can be if the desire to change is there.

[EmeraldCityGirl]

Thanks for your input, woinlove.

 

May I ask how long your affair with xMM lasted? I admire your strength in being able to say "no" to the OW Holy Grail, a MM that actually follows through on his promises and divorces

 

It must have been difficult for you, after spending time having to hide your affair, to turn down the chance to have an open and (hopefully) healthier relationship with xMM. I had invested so many years, and spent so much time planning our future, that when he actually divorced and asked me to be his wife, the thought of turning him down barely crossed my mind. I wish I had spent some more time really thinking about what being married to a man who spent years cheating on his wife would entail. Like I said, I love him, so deeply; but I don't trust him Things are wonderful between us right now, but I can't silence that little voice in my head that whispers things were probably wonderful between him and his ex-wife, too...in the beginning.

[woinlove]

Thanks for your input, woinlove.

 

May I ask how long your affair with xMM lasted? I admire your strength in being able to say "no" to the OW Holy Grail, a MM that actually follows through on his promises and divorces

 

It must have been difficult for you, after spending time having to hide your affair, to turn down the chance to have an open and (hopefully) healthier relationship with xMM. I had invested so many years, and spent so much time planning our future, that when he actually divorced and asked me to be his wife, the thought of turning him down barely crossed my mind. I wish I had spent some more time really thinking about what being married to a man who spent years cheating on his wife would entail. Like I said, I love him, so deeply; but I don't trust him Things are wonderful between us right now, but I can't silence that little voice in my head that whispers things were probably wonderful between him and his ex-wife, too...in the beginning.

 

It had only been hidden for the first couple months and we were both living away from our permanent home for work when we met, so he was away from his wife at that time, and there wasn't much "hiding" needed. When he returned home, he confessed and filed for divorce shortly after. We had already been out in the open for about a year when I ended it. Somehow, it wasn't until his divorce was finalized that I looked at the situation and him more realistically and critically. There was still a lot of drama even after he separated and filed for divorce.

 

Would you two be willing to do MC together? If you find the right counsellor, that could help a lot with trust and give you more confidence. Some people may make the transition successfully from A to M without this, but I would not count on it. I think cheating takes a willingness to cross a certain boundary and one needs to understand why he was willing and what is going to change. Any long marriage will go through some trials, may be illness or something else, so having a great beginning is good but not enough.

 

You are married now, so worrying about this doesn't serve much purpose except to spur you to action. I think there are steps you and your H can take to make it much less likely, but it requires your H to do a lot of the work too. On the bright side, it seems like you are really in love and that is great. There have been OW turned W who posted here and only realized after marrying the MM that they didn't get the partner they deserve. Sometimes the drama, competition, masks all this. That is what happened to me, but fortunately I realized it early on. With real love, if your H recognizes that his own shortcomings that lead to cheating need to be understood and addressed, and you both work together on all these issues, you can have a good M. Without that work by both of you, I agree with others that you may have good reason to worry.

Edited February 18, 2013 by woinlove

[veryhappy]

Thank you for updating a story that otherwise would have seemed to have the regular ending.

 

I think the takeaway is that an AP needs to bail when the time has come, and value themselves enough to go through the pain of ending things. You would have been okay even if he hadn't gotten a divorce.

 

How come he got a divorce? Did he think you'd still be available to be with him? Men are usually scared to end up alone.

 

I wish you normalcy and that he can help you with your trust issues.