Not leaving for the children

[Heart On]

If children are the reason they STAY,then children should be the reason they STAY faithful.Why put thier lives at risk at all? They act as though they are entitled to doing ANYTHING they want and don't care AT ALL about how it effects others.It's all about them and really,thier lack of character.That is a true sign of someone lacking empathy....Narcissistic in my book.

 

Mine didn't give a rat's a$$ about his kids,made fun of them,lied to them,hurt them and didn't even notice, but claimed he couldn't leave because of the kids.HAHAHA...What a CROCK.He didn't want anyone to know his TRUE colors is all it was about.He wanted to cheat and get more sex and string us both along for his own personal gains.Period.

 

Stayed for the kids? lol The kids would have been better off with an honest character-bound father if you ask me! Instead,they all got a lying, cheating, manipulative Sociopathic/Narcissistic father who was devoid of empathy.

 

Total BS.The problem was,he wanted it all and openly admitted to that.

His image as a "good guy" vs. the reality that he was Narcissistic was what he grappled with.He exploited everyone he came in contact with in one way or another.What he did to me wasn't personal,it stemmed from his lack of conscience and ability to commit to anyone.It was also completely passive aggressive for him to cheat on his wife.Just another way to defy the percieved authority in his life.

 

He swore on thier LIVES once he would call me and failed to follow thru.When I saw him again,I asked him if he realized he

had no conscience.All he could say was.."That was bad,huh?"

 

Stupid should be painful.

 

The problem with affairs for most men is that they are a mean's to an end.

They are not meant to be "exit affairs" for them.They are typically about instant ego/sexual gratification and because we as OW's believe them to be more,thier inability to fully commit to us,for whatever "reason" they give leaves us asking...is it ME? Nah....it's the "kids"!

 

No...it's THEM and thier inability to commit to anyone.

 

I think people who start things they have no intention of following thru with for thier EGO'S sakes are all commitment phobics at heart.

They really can't commit to anything or anyone.

Take nothing and no one seriously.

And do everything within thier power to avoid fully saying Hello or Goodbye as FEAR rules thier worlds.

 

Kids are just a convienient excuse for sitting on fences if you ask me.

 

And it makes them look soooo altruistic,how could be blame them for leading us on to nowhere when all they want to do is be good fathers.

 

So laughable when you are out for years from the GROSS manipulations!

 

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Ultimate-Guide-to-Commitment-Phobic-Men&id=2708064

 

 

http://www.simplysolo.com/relationships/how_to_spot_a_commitment_phobic.html

 

 

The flip side of this is that OW who stick around waiting also seem to have triangulation/intimacy/commitment issues or they might not otherwise engage with MM in the first place.

[TurboGirl]

Are you kidding? He gets away with her knowing he is sleeping with her and at least one other woman, being without him on holidays, not being the first priority, settling for what time they can get together at his convience, and the list goes on and on.

 

Stillafool, you took that out of context! If the MM leaves his W for the OW, he won't be able to get away with anything... because the OW would be watching closely for signs of lying.

[Heart On]

Stillafool, you took that out of context! If the MM leaves his W for the OW, he won't be able to get away with anything... because the OW would be watching closely for signs of lying.

 

Sounds like a wonderful way to live and just why I bailed out instead of being strung along indefinately or worse,winding up with the liar.

[Silly_Girl]

Heart On, I think that's exactly the point, in your earlier post. There is no belief that having an affair will hurt the children. But there's significant belief that dad moving out would.

[Quiet Storm]

Stillafool, you took that out of context! If the MM leaves his W for the OW, he won't be able to get away with anything... because the OW would be watching closely for signs of lying.

 

OW may be watching for signs of lying, but she usually buys his BS just as easily as BW does.

 

He is fully confident in his ability to snow any woman that is emotionally invested in him, be it his wife, his mom, his OW, his daughter. He uses their emotions (their love for him, their need to see him as "good") against them.

 

If MM ends up with OW, he's not going to think "I can't cheat on her because she knows what I am capable of". Yeah, right!

 

Instead, he will think "she knew what I am capable of and still wants me."

 

He knows cheating is bad, and from his point of view, OW still love him and want him despite his character (liar, cheater). The fact that OW chose to engage with him, while he is committed to another woman, is evidence to MM that OW is gullible.

 

Most emotionally healthy women would not put themselves in this position. Most healthy women won't allow themselves to get close enough to a married man for feelings to develop. Most healthy women would shut down MM's pursuit as soon as she found out he was married. OW didn't. She allowed or welcomed MM's pursuit. She reciproacted. MM know OW's weaknesses and exploits them for their own benefit from day one of the affair. (Just like he has learned BW's weaknesses and exploits them, too).

 

For the most part, I think that men base most of their opinions about women on her actions- not her words. MM spout words everyday with no action behind them and therefore don't put much stock into what OW says. For example: OW says she is not happy with the arrangement and wants him to leave the wife. She will discuss her unhappiness, cry to MM about it, question him, threaten to end it...but if she is still engaging with him, MM doesn't take her seriously. MM thinks if OW wasn't okay with the situation she wouldn't be in it. If OW doesn't like the arrangement, she would leave it...not just complain about it.

 

I think most OW feel that MM's lying is situational. They feel that he lies to the wife because they have a bad relationship, and that he probably won't lie to her because they have a good relationship, a connection, etc.

 

But the majority of MM are liars and conflict avoiders by nature. The lying isn't pointed towards specific people. They use manilupation and lying when it benefits them to do so, and their targets are interchangable.

 

JMO.

[Summer Breeze]

My thoughts came from other threads, and what we've all heard, each side, over and over.

 

MP don't leave because of child or children. If they are truly living their lives for kid(s); why are they risking the trama of an A on the children? Why are they, if they really are, letting their kids grow up seeing a disfunctional couple sleeping in separate rooms.

 

When someone says they stay 'for their kids', they have alot of questions to answer about every way they see to those kids, who are the only ones they claim to be thinking about.

 

I see this reason given by BS as often as WS. What are the BS doing for the kids either. Possibly poor role models, sustaining an environment where the parents may well not be happy, sacrificing their happiness for the kids (and that ain't a good thing and brings on adult onset guilt for those of us that have been told that).

 

I left my xH when I confirmed he was cheating and my child was under 5. It never was a consideration to stay. He gambled and lost because he ended up getting visits and lost the right to tuck the child in every night and read the bedtime story. I've never had an A and if I did I would make sure I did anything in my power to stay with my child. I know how hypocritical and nonsensical all of that is. I guess to me that epitomizes how difficult the argument in staying for the kids v leaving can be.

[ladydesigner]

Hey Quiet Storm,

 

You have totally figured out MMs!!! They seems to think women are stupid and easily fooled. How can you tell? When you ask them what would happen if the BW found out, they classically tell you she'll never suspect. "She trusts me"!!! These days I ask my male friends all sorts of questions about their Ms and almost all of them have zero intention to divorce. They can list 100 things they don't like about thier wives but then begin to list 1000 things they like. Those in As have explained it like this:

 

1. The W is as much a part of him as his kids.

2. Family to him means his W and kids and him and his parents and her parents and, and, and...

3. When he's with OW, he just wants to laugh and have fun. He gets irritated when she begins to tell him her problems because he couldn't care less. After all, she is an adult and he has enough of his own problems and those of his W and kids to deal with.

4. He can do and say things to OW that he can't to W. He is in awe of W and the value she brings to the family. W actually makes the whole family unit work. MM hardly deals with school, medical problems, running the home, etc. W does much of what makes his life comfortable.

5. So yes he has some complaints but at the end of the day he has figured out how to ease the resultant irritation from W by having an A.

 

Now back to the question of spouses staying for thier kids. I once believed that to be true but I have since realized that such spouses never ever had the intention to leave in the first place. Of course I'm talking about Ms where there is no violence or drug abuse. MPs do not begin As planning to get a divorce. If that were the case, there would be more open Rs (not secret As) and a divorce within a short period of time thereafter. So if a MM says he loves his kids dearly, forget it. He ain't leaving his W. On the other end of the scale, a MM who hates his kids probably hates his W too. he would definately leave them high and dry. Why would anyone trust a guy who'd abandon his W and kids to love them?

 

Good observation, OP.

 

Edit: I'm sure there can be exceptions but...

 

This post and every post from QS I think best describes staying for the kids. It applies to my H's way of thinking and my own as both of us had engaged in A's. In the end there is no way I could have left for my AP or my H leave for his because of the kids. Unfortunately my H and I both handled our M wrong when times got tough. We both realize this now and are not looking back. The kids are the glue in our M and it is them that I chose to really work on my M. And yes we were both selfish during the A's. The kids were always in the back of my mind haunting me during my A.

 

I am also part of that history and so is my H. It is our history and kids included that became the main focus when everything was falling apart. It was always there I guess we never realized how important it really was until it was almost lost. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

I cherish my M more than I ever have today, my husband does too. I'm happy for it. Happy we got a second chance to make this work!

[worlybear]

Heart On, I think that's exactly the point, in your earlier post. There is no belief that having an affair will hurt the children. But there's significant belief that dad moving out would.

I totally disagree.

My STBXH's affair hurt all our kids terribly, especially our then 7 yr old.

Dad moving out to bring up her former friend as a stepdaughter hasn't helped either.

She is now nearly 10 and will have nothing to do with him.

[Heart On]

Heart On, I think that's exactly the point, in your earlier post. There is no belief that having an affair will hurt the children. But there's significant belief that dad moving out would.

 

If a wife or child was given informed choice (that the man they think they know is just an IMAGE of a decent father and husband)and not patronized with omissions and lies,I truly doubt they would even WANT "daddy"/hubby" to stick around and "give up" his other life for them.

 

But that's the thing about MM's and affairs.It's all contigent on his ability to compartmentalize and manipulate.

 

I see no love or respect for anyone involved under the circumstances.

 

And that includes thier kids.

 

Her husband used to say to me,what she doesn't know,won't hurt her.

 

He held ALL the power and that's how he wanted it.

 

I assume he rationalized about his kids and friends and family too.

 

By the end of it all,I was so disgusted at his audacity,lack of empathy or ability to be honest with anyone,least of all himself, after having left my marriage over his lies and my truths,I couldn't have cared less if he stayed with his kids or not.Actually,I was RELIEVED.

 

I still divorced my xH and kept my kids and my money and my motto was:

 

I'd rather be hated for who I am,than loved for who I'm not.

 

His was: Lie and Deny.

 

Kids,wife,friends, parents....all think he is something he's not.

 

That is the definition of a Lovefraud.

[bentnotbroken]

If a wife or child was given informed choice (that the man they think they know is just an IMAGE of a decent father and husband)and not patronized with omissions and lies,I truly doubt they would even WANT "daddy"/hubby" to stick around and "give up" his other life for them.

 

But that's the thing about MM's and affairs.It's all contigent on his ability to compartmentalize and manipulate.

 

I see no love or respect for anyone involved under the circumstances.

 

And that includes thier kids.

 

Her husband used to say to me,what she doesn't know,won't hurt her.

 

He held ALL the power and that's how he wanted it.

 

I assume he rationalized about his kids and friends and family too.

 

By the end of it all,I was so disgusted at his audacity,lack of empathy or ability to be honest with anyone,least of all himself, after having left my marriage over his lies and my truths,I couldn't have cared less if he stayed with his kids or not.Actually,I was RELIEVED.

 

I still divorced my xH and kept my kids and my money and my motto was:

 

I'd rather be hated for who I am,than loved for who I'm not.

 

His was: Lie and Deny.

 

Kids,wife,friends, parents....all think he is something he's not.

 

That is the definition of a Lovefraud.

 

Or in the south supreme jackazz.

[Silly_Girl]

I totally disagree.

My STBXH's affair hurt all our kids terribly, especially our then 7 yr old.

Dad moving out to bring up her former friend as a stepdaughter hasn't helped either.

She is now nearly 10 and will have nothing to do with him.

 

What I am saying is I think the dad PERCEIVES harm to the children from a divorce but DOESN'T perceive harm from the affair.

[Quiet Storm]

If a wife or child was given informed choice (that the man they think they know is just an IMAGE of a decent father and husband)and not patronized with omissions and lies,I truly doubt they would even WANT "daddy"/hubby" to stick around and "give up" his other life for them.

 

 

 

Probably true for some wives, but I totally disagree with this in the situation of children. In my experience, most children are self focused and want their parents there, in the home. They don't care about their parents romantic lives and if they are "happy" or not. They definitely don't want their dad to leave them so he can go be happy with another woman! The father leaving the home destroys the family and a child's security. They won't be able to understand the pull of romantic love until they are older. They will only see that Daddy loved OW more than them, and that Daddy's love for them wasn't strong enough to make him stay. And when they grow up, they often have abandonment issues.

 

Kids,wife,friends, parents....all think he is something he's not.

 

That is the definition of a Lovefraud.

 

I don't think MM consider themselves a fraud when it comes to the family, because their ultimate goal and plan is usually to keep the family in tact. They may see themselves as a fraud to OW, because usually they have no intention of leaving, but tell OW they want out so she will remain available for them.

 

The marriage is not fraudulant, even if the romance has died. Marriage is not just about romance. It is about commitment, shared history, extended family, tradition, mutual caring, loving and nurturing the same children. Marriages ebb and flow, the feelings fade and spark back up again. For MM, lack of romance doesn't negate the marriage by a long shot. It is no reason to end the family and everything they have worked to build.

 

Women are usually prompted to leave the marriage when the love fades, but men are just prompted to have an affair.

 

Men know when they get married that the strong romantic feelings will likely fade. Fading romance is natural after many years. Men accept this and do not usually see it as a reason for divorce. It is not essential. They can and do get their romantic and sexual needs met elsehwere.

 

They have the affair to KEEP THE MARRIAGE- not to destroy it.

 

The OW's biggest mistake is to assume that because MM is having an affair, he doesn't want to be married. MM want both- to get their needs met with the affair AND to keep the marriage & family intact.

 

They have a need for more fun, more sexual variety, excitement, appreciation and the lack of these things can result in MM being unfulfilled and moody. An affair is the perfect solution (to them) because they get their needs met, are in a better mood at home, more patient, etc.

 

The marriage is not a fraud to them because they WANT to stay married. Coming home, being dad, doing family things is not fake.

 

Yes, they omit the fact that they are having an affair to their wives, kids, parents, etc. but to MM, the affair is a totally separate part of their life and doesn't concern them.

 

They are very selfish to think this way, as they do not consider BW's or OW's feelings, but they think an affair is a better option than turning their families lives upside to be with another woman (when those romance feelings will eventually fade with her, too).

Edited August 15, 2011 by Quiet Storm

[Heart On]

They have the affair to KEEP THE MARRIAGE- not to destroy it.

 

Oh come on.Are you actually defending MM who cheat with this convoluted sentiment?

 

I beg to differ.They cheat to triangulate,defy and disrespect

the very women who love and trust them.It's not about sex

it's about the power of deception to most of them.

 

And when they grow up, they often have abandonment issues.

 

Better than living a lie or worse dealing with the fall out of a miserable marriage,don't you think?

 

 

Women are usually prompted to leave the marriage when the love fades, but men are just prompted to have an affair.

 

And men are wrong in that thinking and action.They have no courage or character to think that cheating is the best alternative to losing HALF of thier income,thier image or thier fascade!

As they saying goes,it's cheaper to keep her and CHEAT.

 

I think it's anti-social to stay married unhappily or out of love,than to just say,I don't love you anymore,I want a divorce and THEN go out and find your bliss.

 

 

The OW's biggest mistake is to assume that because MM is having an affair, he doesn't want to be married. MM want both- to get their needs met with the affair AND to keep the marriage & family intact.

 

I agree with this and it's about the most selfish act a man can impose on the women he triangulates. They want to lie and manipulate both parties for thier own ends.I agree with that.

 

I don't agree with using thier kids as a way to continue to act out thier commitment issues.But that's just what they do.They can't say,I'm staying for my wife's sake because OW would BALK at the notion as if they want to be with thier wives,WTF are they doing with an OW telling her he loves her and wants to be with her?

 

But they keep going home as IF they are entitled to doing whatever they want as OW won't risk outting them and losing them and thier wives typically don't have clue one so they get away with all at the expense of everyone.

 

Nice.

 

 

The marriage is not a fraud to them because they WANT to stay married. Coming home, being dad, doing family things is not fake.

 

It is fake because the MM has to put on a show to keep status quo! I asked her husband how he managed to look her in the eye,and he said...

 

"Very carefully".Don't tell me that's about respect or wanting to keep his marriage together.That's about wanting to passive aggressively and covertly hurt the woman who keeps him from enjoying sex and live!

 

He used to LOVE getting one over on her.Took pride in it from what I could tell.

 

The marriage IS a fraud because it's based in LIES and BETAYAL's that the wife typically has no knowledge of.

 

Yes, they omit the fact that they are having an affair to their wives, kids, parents, etc. but to MM, the affair is a totally separate part of their life and doesn't concern them.

 

Yep.And that's what the real issue is the fact that they can't integrate thier realites speaks volumes.A therapist would label that a splintered personality and that is NOT a healthy person who can so easily compartmentalize an entire family out of his reality in order to get laid or attention or his "needs" met.That is a straight up DXed Narcissistic personality disordered person if you ask me.

 

They are very selfish to think this way, as they do not consider BW's or OW's feelings, but they think an affair is a better option than turning their families lives upside to be with another woman (when those romance feelings will eventually fade with her, too).

 

 

Well...aren't they special!~ lol....

 

So damn concerned about THIER OWN FEELINGS and no one else's.

 

I guess we should just see them as altruistic,sacrificial,saints then.

 

I'm sure that's what my xMM thinks of himself in his delusional mind!.

 

I think he is a SOCIOPATH without conscience who lead me on to nowhere until I left my xH over his lies and kept his wife in the dark because he knew she would kick him to the curb if he outted himself as I did in my marriage,and even he admitted that I was right on the money about that!

 

So yeah...THANK GOD he stayed with the woman and children who didn't know him from ADAM....because I couldn't stomach a man like that in my life if he was the last man standing.

 

And he knew that too.

 

P*ssy.Sorry,but my god,where do they get off?

 

Oh yeah........anyplace they want to and get away with it.

 

Such saints for doing what it takes to keep thier marriages together by exploiting OW who naively believe them and take them at thier word.

 

Fools? Or fooled!!

I think OW and BW are both victims of these men's selfishness and audacity in thinking an affair is a rational alternative to a divorce.

[Spark1111]

I believe QS makes some very valid points.

 

No one starts an affair believing they will get caught and they operate under the guise of what the BS doesn't know can't hurt her.

 

Yes, they do compartmentalize very well. And they rarely willingly leave the family unless discovered and divorced.

 

The treatment of the OW is despicable, but maybe women do project romantic feelings onto a man very happy with the arrangement as it is.

[Quiet Storm]

 

Oh come on.Are you actually defending MM who cheat with this convoluted

sentiment?

 

 

No. I am not saying MM are correct in their thoughts or actions. I am just explaining what I think their rationalizations are.

 

 

The marriage IS a fraud because it's based in LIES and BETAYAL's that the

wife typically has no knowledge of.

 

 

I didn't mean to impy that the BW or OW doesn't think the marriage is a fraud, just that the MM usually doesn't think so.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Quiet Storm

[jwi71]

MP don't leave because of child or children. If they are truly living their lives for kid(s); why are they risking the trama of an A on the children?

 

Why would an A affect a child?

 

I think you mean either D or marital discord resulting from a discovered A - aka the fallout.

 

Would a "non-A" D or marital discord be any more or less "damaging" to children?

 

If you are trying to say, and I think you are, that A's hurt children then I think you are incorrect.

 

An A can only hurt children if they are told. And the actions of the parents, age dependent, should NOT be divulged to children. Why do the children need to to now WHY the parents or D or there is marital discord?

 

It is, IMO, better to explain what a D is rather than the why the D is happening. As the children mature into adulthood (or if they are adults already) AND they ask specifically why, then tell age appropriate truths.

 

Otherwise, the intimate details of their parents lives are not theirs to know.

 

Why are they, if they really are, letting their kids grow up seeing a disfunctional couple sleeping in separate rooms.

 

The custom of sleeping in different rooms is not dysfunctional, it was widely practiced in the US (not even 50 years ago) and still in practice in parts of the world today.

 

When someone says they stay 'for their kids', they have alot of questions to answer about every way they see to those kids, who are the only ones they claim to be thinking about.

 

Bullshyte.

 

I don't think of my kids at the gym.

Nor do I think of them during fantasy football draft night (2nd pick booyah!).

I also don't think of them when I'm on vacation (w/o the kids in Florida for a week).

If I'm busy at work I don't think of them either.

 

Does that make me a bad father? Hell no.

 

Children don't need married parents they need INVOLVED parents - and I don't know anyone who is 100% always involved. Hell, that's TERRIBLE parenting - there's even a name for it - helicopter parents. Shudder.

[Quiet Storm]

 

I guess we should just see them as altruistic,sacrificial,saints

then.

 

 

Of course not. But they see themselves that way.

 

My post was trying to point out what MM's point of view is. I'm not saying it's right or justified. Or that I agree with it.

 

Some OW really think that MM are nice guys in a bad situation. But that's not usually the case. MM have serious character flaws, and they are not related to BW or the marriage. Poor copings skills, narcisism, conflict avoidance...those traits will follow him wherever he goes.

 

Although I wouldn't say all MM are sociopaths, many have some of the traits of NPD, APD, BPD the- cluster B's.

 

I don't think MM should do what they do. But their have always been people like this and there always will be. It helps to learn their thought process (no matter how shocking), because it helps to keep us from getting caught up in their BS.

[pureinheart]

I just read the first page (then noticed there were 2 more and don't have the time to read them)...I see so many misconceptions in some of the replies.

 

It is implied that and AP is not a good parent...false

 

It is implied that MP obsesses...false

 

Time spent with the AP takes from the kids...so does posting and obsessing on the internet, or any other activity.

[Jessica232]

Ladies. Go lay next to your child. Snuggle up with them. Then imagine seeing them every other weekend, and on Wednesdays. Could YOU handle that??

 

My ex MM, his excuse for not leaving was the kids. I kinda got it all along, but at the same time, the whole, "if you really loved me, you'd be with me" thing was in the back of my mind. Until I put myself into his shoes. I laid down, watched a movie snuggled up with my little one. And I imagined, having a father's rights, going from seeing them every day to seeing them as the standard court order allows. I put myself in that situation....leaving an unhappy marriage, knowing what I was giving up with my kids. NO effing way!! There's just NO WAY!! How could I possibly choose anyone or my own happiness over my kids?! In my life, it just wouldn't happen. And, to me, I have more respect for a man who doesn't choose a woman over his children.

 

Now the flip side of that is the hurt we all feel (those that have heard this excuse), and maybe for a second imagine the immense hurt and stress and heartache that SOME (only some) MM feel when faced with this choice. Not all guys are bad.

 

EVERY situation is different. I just wanna give a new perspective.

[MissBee]

Welll....I think it boils down to whether or not one is willing to deal with a particular situation indefinitely.

 

If a man doesn't want to divorce because of his kids...whether it is a lie or the truth....he's not leaving.

 

 

It is not for you to decide if it's a lie or the truth, it's about seeing that you have come to a fork in the road. If he is not going to leave so he can be with his kids....will you be fine with that? Will you accept never brining that up again as it is just not going to happen? Or will you continue to hope and pray? Or wait til the kids are 18?

 

That's the bottom line. People are free to do as they wish, but when you decide you be with someone, you have to decide what YOU can handle and it should be a mutually beneficial scenario. If a man is never going to divorce for his kids, hamster, finances, etc..it is for you to take what he says and decide if it is going to work for you.

 

 

It's not a case of bad versus good...but what works from what doesn't work or make sense and whether or not you are willing to truly listen and see what the situation IS versus what you hope it would be. I can't make a man with a child, not have his child. I realize dating a father comes with certain things that dating a single man doesn't, likewise dating a married man comes with things dating a single one doesn't. I cannot change the status, but I can decide to see what it entails and whether or not it is going to work for me versus wasting time trying to hope something different happens...

[bentnotbroken]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the younger the child is, the easier it is for them to adjust to the changes in a divorce. Right???

Doesn't research back this up?

 

That bs about waiting till the kids are 18 is just bs, imo. I mean seriously........whose world are you gonna rock more if the parents divorce, a three year old or a 18 year old? Who is it most likely to leave long last scars on? I think the older kids.

 

 

I had to take a parenting class as a part of filing for divorce. The research that was presented in that class said that the older the child the harder the adjustment. The group that showed the most distress was 16-22. They say it is a transitional period in the life of a young adult and they need the stability of family. If they feel insecure about the home life, then adjusting to other aspects of growing and maturing are at risk.

[Silly_Girl]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the younger the child is, the easier it is for them to adjust to the changes in a divorce. Right???

Doesn't research back this up?

 

That bs about waiting till the kids are 18 is just bs, imo. I mean seriously........whose world are you gonna rock more if the parents divorce, a three year old or a 18 year old? Who is it most likely to leave long last scars on? I think the older kids.

 

As parent would you like to live with your child and see lots of them regularly and be fully involved as their parent until they're 18? Or just until they're 3? I know which I'd choose.

[jwi71]

As parent would you like to live with your child and see lots of them regularly and be fully involved as their parent until they're 18? Or just until they're 3? I know which I'd choose.

 

NOT having full custody of your children does NOT mean you are not fully involved.

 

I also manage to see them EVERY week regardless if its mine turn to have them or hers (I make every gymnastics, Tae Kwon do and swimming lesson)

 

Funny how that happens when a parent is INVOLVED.

 

However SG, you are right...I would prefer to have them 24x7.

And it was an option - I had that option to stay M...to stay "for the kids".

 

And rejected it after all of...maybe 4 weeks. I guess I decided they (the kids, who were 3 and 5) deserved a HAPPY, INVOLVED parent and not a MISERABLE INVOLVED parent.

 

Its my mantra for this thread (and one I very powerfully believe - and live): Kids don't need married parents they need INVOLVED parents (or parent).

[Silly_Girl]

NOT having full custody of your children does NOT mean you are not fully involved.

 

I also manage to see them EVERY week regardless if its mine turn to have them or hers (I make every gymnastics, Tae Kwon do and swimming lesson)

 

Funny how that happens when a parent is INVOLVED.

 

However SG, you are right...I would prefer to have them 24x7.

And it was an option - I had that option to stay M...to stay "for the kids".

 

And rejected it after all of...maybe 4 weeks. I guess I decided they (the kids, who were 3 and 5) deserved a HAPPY, INVOLVED parent and not a MISERABLE INVOLVED parent.

 

Its my mantra for this thread (and one I very powerfully believe - and live): Kids don't need married parents they need INVOLVED parents (or parent).

 

I know the theory, and I know the reality can be at two completely different ends of the spectrum. I know dads who've hit rock bottom and think suicide is the only way. And other dads who have a really fantastic and involved relationship and DO the school stuff and the doctor stuff and the taking time off work when they're ill stuff.

 

In my experience it's usual for the father/child relationship to suffer far more than the mother/child. And I resent the position of power the mother is often put in, legally, financially and by society.

 

It's a real bugbear for me, father's rights. I have a bit of experience in the field and have seen a lot of unneccessary pain affecting the kids, so whilst some families achieve co-parenting nirvana there are still lots and lots that don't and some posts I read here about how simple it is to divorce frustrate me.

[Heart On]

My post was trying to point out what MM's point of view is. I'm not saying it's right or justified. Or that I agree with it.

 

Ok...sorry.I know there's no justifying thier choices or actions.

 

Some OW really think that MM are nice guys in a bad situation. But that's not usually the case. MM have serious character flaws, and they are not related to BW or the marriage. Poor copings skills, narcisism, conflict avoidance...those traits will follow him wherever he goes.

 

Although I wouldn't say all MM are sociopaths, many have some of the traits of NPD, APD, BPD the- cluster B's.

 

This can't be understated if you ask me!~I really don't think most OW and BS's understand this.

 

 

I don't think MM should do what they do. But their have always been people like this and there always will be. It helps to learn their thought process (no matter how shocking), because it helps to keep us from getting caught up in their BS.

 

IN the realm of bringing some awareness....

 

http://www.lovefraud.com/

 

I wonder how many of us didn't get caught

up in thier Pity Ploys from the start.I know I did!

 

http://www.lovefraud.com/02_howToSpotAcon/the_pity_play.html

 

 

What I just don't get and never will is

WHY do they even get a choice to stay for thier kids sake's

without outting themselves to thier wives?

 

I see it as just another rationalization that stems from thier delusions of grandeur.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Heart On