Not leaving for the children

[Lostinlife4now]

Of course not. But they see themselves that way.

 

My post was trying to point out what MM's point of view is. I'm not saying it's right or justified. Or that I agree with it.

 

Some OW really think that MM are nice guys in a bad situation. But that's not usually the case. MM have serious character flaws, and they are not related to BW or the marriage. Poor copings skills, narcisism, conflict avoidance...those traits will follow him wherever he goes.

 

Although I wouldn't say all MM are sociopaths, many have some of the traits of NPD, APD, BPD the- cluster B's.

 

I don't think MM should do what they do. But their have always been people like this and there always will be. It helps to learn their thought process (no matter how shocking), because it helps to keep us from getting caught up in their BS.

 

I must say AMEN to this......Xmm is definitely narcssisstic, conflict avoidance, poor coping skills.....He is just a douche bag.......

[silktricks]

Because most MM don't think that they will get caught. They don't think it is risky.

 

And if they do, they are confident in their ability to smooth things over. MM usually have a way with words...and it's not just the OW that believes his BS. BW usually does, too.

 

They often feel superior to women and are confident in their ability to manipulate, especially women that are emotionally invested in them.

 

Many times the marriage functions very well, because they have the ability to compartmentalize. They can flip the switch from OW to BW very easily. Much of the time, the separate rooms story is just another one of MM cons.

 

 

I think these statements apply to a very small subset of MM - serial cheaters.

[stillafool]

Stillafool, you took that out of context! If the MM leaves his W for the OW, he won't be able to get away with anything... because the OW would be watching closely for signs of lying.

 

Oh, I got cha. Definitely she would see signs.

[Heart On]

I think these statements apply to a very small subset of MM - serial cheaters.

 

And as for the rest? What do you think thier selfish,cowardly,duplicitous ways are about?

[worlybear]

I had to take a parenting class as a part of filing for divorce. The research that was presented in that class said that the older the child the harder the adjustment. The group that showed the most distress was 16-22. They say it is a transitional period in the life of a young adult and they need the stability of family. If they feel insecure about the home life, then adjusting to other aspects of growing and maturing are at risk.

 

Whatever the age of the children it's very hurtful to be daughters and sons of a cheater. My older children (early 20s) have completely cut their father from their lives because they were so disgusted by his behaviour.

They have lost their father and that is very sad.

My son didn't even want him at his recent graduation. It affects older children in different ways.

[bentnotbroken]

Whatever the age of the children it's very hurtful to be daughters and sons of a cheater. My older children (early 20s) have completely cut their father from their lives because they were so disgusted by his behaviour.

They have lost their father and that is very sad.

My son didn't even want him at his recent graduation. It affects older children in different ways.

 

 

Agreed. I watched my own children go from rage to despair. That part still makes me angry:mad:. My pain is one thing, theirs.....a whole different ballgame.

[Spark1111]

The fOW in my sitch was a work colleague raising a difficult son following an acrimonious D. Her xH married his last OW, a true exit affair.

 

She was beyond angry and turned to my H with her frustrations, first about her son and then about her X. Uh oh! Pity ploy and a true damsel in distress.

 

What amazed me is my H appeared to her to be Father of the Year, and until this affair, he was in our book. While our marriage has taken some knocks, we now realize one of our absolute strengths is our parenting, and we have three lovely stable adults to show for it.

 

But during the affair, he grew moody and distant and irritable, as if ALL his familial obligations were burdensome chores. Kids felt it big time. In fact, kids suspected another woman waay before I did, I discovered after DDAY during some family conversations.

 

I had no intentions of telling them, but my oldest daughter deduced it, and when asked point-blank, I couldn't lie to her.

 

Yet, the OW made every attempt to flatter him, wished her son had my H as a father, but she made a point to disparage her x, even in front of her child!

 

He could not believe the anger she expressed, the machiavellian scenarios she told of how this child was manipulated by two warring parents. Guess what? The son hates Dad too. And his new baby boy. And the wicked step-mother. Big shocker, I know.

 

How covoluted and distorted is this scenario?

 

Many states today have enacted parental alienation laws because of the lifelong damage one parent can do disparaging the other. If proven, children can be taken away and awarded to the non-custodial parent since the courts deem it a form of abuse. Children want to love and to be loved by BOTH parents, period.

 

I think affairs can be abusive to children as it takes away time, resources, and emotional investment from both the spouse and the kids.

[Memphis Raines]

And as for the rest? What do you think thier selfish,cowardly,duplicitous ways are about?

 

since you cheated on your husband and kids, and made the wife of your xMM out to be some idiot, why don't you answer that question for us?

[So Very Confused]

I divorced my first husband when my daughter was a year old. (because *shock* he was having an affair) She's now a grown woman and she's fine. She doesn't even remember when we were together and now she's insightful enough to realize why we were incompatible. We managed to be good parents through it all though.

 

On the other hand, I have a friend who's dad cheated on his mother his whole life. The mother was constantly upset, crying, dramatic about it. The dad finally left when my friend was in his 30's. He still has issues with any kind of relationship and he's still PO'd at his dad, many years later.

 

My xMM cited his children as his reason for not leaving his M. His kids were 10 and 14. He says he's been unhappy since the youngest was born. I've pointed out that he only sees them on weekends anyway since he lives in another city, and that he's setting a terrible example of how a husband should be treating his wife. He still chooses to stay. He could be lying about the whole thing. For all I know, he doesn't even have kids.

 

I don't buy the whole "staying for the sake of the children" yet screwing around thing as being good for the children at all. If you want what's best for your children, you man up and treat their other parent with dignity and respect. If you can't do that, you get out as peaceably as possible and do whatever it takes to stay in your child's life. I do personally, think it's easier when they are young that's just an opinion. Of course, I'm a bitter and butthurt today anyway so take it with a grain of salt.

[fooled once]

Ladies. Go lay next to your child. Snuggle up with them. Then imagine seeing them every other weekend, and on Wednesdays. Could YOU handle that??

 

My ex MM, his excuse for not leaving was the kids. I kinda got it all along, but at the same time, the whole, "if you really loved me, you'd be with me" thing was in the back of my mind. Until I put myself into his shoes. I laid down, watched a movie snuggled up with my little one. And I imagined, having a father's rights, going from seeing them every day to seeing them as the standard court order allows. I put myself in that situation....leaving an unhappy marriage, knowing what I was giving up with my kids. NO effing way!! There's just NO WAY!! How could I possibly choose anyone or my own happiness over my kids?! In my life, it just wouldn't happen. And, to me, I have more respect for a man who doesn't choose a woman over his children.

 

Now the flip side of that is the hurt we all feel (those that have heard this excuse), and maybe for a second imagine the immense hurt and stress and heartache that SOME (only some) MM feel when faced with this choice. Not all guys are bad.

 

EVERY situation is different. I just wanna give a new perspective.

 

So why is MM on the phone/internet with OW instead of with his kids? Why is he sneaking off to meet her instead of going to a school event/helping with homework/playing ball, etc with his kids? Why is his time with the OW more important than spending that time with the kids? And the "overnights"? Weekends away Why is he doing that instead of spend the time with his kids?

 

Did you ever think that just MAYBE having visitation instead of taking for granted that your kids are at home with the wife just might encourage dad to actually SPEND quality time with his kids? When he is left in charge half the time (depending on the custody situation --- many judges now want 50/50 custody) maybe he can focus on his kids instead of texting the OW or sneaking off for a quickie.

 

NOT having full custody of your children does NOT mean you are not fully involved.

 

I also manage to see them EVERY week regardless if its mine turn to have them or hers (I make every gymnastics, Tae Kwon do and swimming lesson)

 

Funny how that happens when a parent is INVOLVED.

 

However SG, you are right...I would prefer to have them 24x7.

And it was an option - I had that option to stay M...to stay "for the kids".

 

And rejected it after all of...maybe 4 weeks. I guess I decided they (the kids, who were 3 and 5) deserved a HAPPY, INVOLVED parent and not a MISERABLE INVOLVED parent.

 

Its my mantra for this thread (and one I very powerfully believe - and live): Kids don't need married parents they need INVOLVED parents (or parent).

 

EXACTLY!!!!! I divorced my son's dad when he was 6. My son thrived without the hostility and tension. Kids should not be forced to live in a house of tension, anger and negativity.

 

 

My xMM cited his children as his reason for not leaving his M. His kids were 10 and 14. He says he's been unhappy since the youngest was born. I've pointed out that he only sees them on weekends anyway since he lives in another city, and that he's setting a terrible example of how a husband should be treating his wife. He still chooses to stay. He could be lying about the whole thing. For all I know, he doesn't even have kids.

 

I don't buy the whole "staying for the sake of the children" yet screwing around thing as being good for the children at all. If you want what's best for your children, you man up and treat their other parent with dignity and respect. If you can't do that, you get out as peaceably as possible and do whatever it takes to stay in your child's life. I do personally, think it's easier when they are young that's just an opinion. Of course, I'm a bitter and butthurt today anyway so take it with a grain of salt.

 

Exactly. No one is saying stay in a miserable marriage. But for heaven's sake, stop being a selfish self centered jerk. BE HONEST. Be a man; be a decent man.

 

And if you must stay married "for the sake of the kid", stop having affairs and focus on your children and yourself.

[donnamaybe]

Who cares what the cheater wants as regards the kids? They weren't thinking about anyone but themselves while they were busy sneaking around. What is the most important is the well being of the kids, and a cheating parent is obviously not thinking about that.

[worlybear]

Who cares what the cheater wants as regards the kids? They weren't thinking about anyone but themselves while they were busy sneaking around. What is the most important is the well being of the kids, and a cheating parent is obviously not thinking about that.

Yay to this!!!!!!! Great post!:)

[Silly_Girl]

Who cares what the cheater wants as regards the kids? They weren't thinking about anyone but themselves while they were busy sneaking around. What is the most important is the well being of the kids, and a cheating parent is obviously not thinking about that.

 

Where I live the courts make no judgement as to fidelity and the ability to parent. Rightfully so.

[Memphis Raines]

Where I live the courts make no judgement as to fidelity and the ability to parent. Rightfully so.

 

you are correct, but not rightfully so.

 

the court didn't care that my x-wife had the morals of a snake and will set a bad example by being a serial huss.

 

IMO, someone that teaches a child unscrupulous values doesn't have much of an ability to parent.

 

It takes more than someplace to live and cooking food to be a parent.

[Memphis Raines]

Who cares what the cheater wants as regards the kids? They weren't thinking about anyone but themselves while they were busy sneaking around. What is the most important is the well being of the kids, and a cheating parent is obviously not thinking about that.

 

exactly. you'd think that the parent that goes out sneaking around leaving the spouse at home to care for the kids would be taken into consideration.

 

nope. only one thing is taken into consideration if the parent going for custody isn't a drug addict or abuser, and that one thing is gender.

[y2k]

My thoughts came from other threads, and what we've all heard, each side, over and over.

 

MP don't leave because of child or children. If they are truly living their lives for kid(s); why are they risking the trama of an A on the children? Why are they, if they really are, letting their kids grow up seeing a disfunctional couple sleeping in separate rooms.

 

When someone says they stay 'for their kids', they have alot of questions to answer about every way they see to those kids, who are the only ones they claim to be thinking about.

 

I'm one who challenges this motion plenty. Since there are plenty of conservatives folks around here, I can imagine I'll get negative comments.

 

I believe that personal relationships (romantic or not) between people and the relationships between a parent and his/her child are two distinct and different things and should almost never be put in the same category.

 

When people cheat, others always yell "oh my god what about your children??". But it doesn't make sense to say such a thing. If a man for example cheats on his wife, it means he's a bad husband. It doesn't tell us if he's a bad father or not, because we don't know how the relationship between the father and his kids are. Those are two different things.

 

At the same time you can have a man who is a wonderful husband who never cheats on his wife, and yet that same man can be a terrible father (never paying attention to his kids, hitting them, etc). Same goes for women.

 

If you want to judge a person on how much of a parent he/she is, you judge them from the personal relationship the have with their children. If that is good, then no matter what else they do in other aspects of their lives, they're good parents.

 

Now when a MM/MW gives the "I have to stay for the children" excuse, it usually means either they're economically strapped to the husband/wife they don't love.

 

From my experience, children adapt pretty well if their parents split and fall in love with other people when both their parents have GOOD communication with the children to begin with. If both parents (each on their own) know how to communicate to their children, then they can communicate on the truth about life, that sometimes people fall in and out of love with each other, and that being in un-happy relationships is NOT healthy, nor nice. I'm not saying that cheating is correct, but neither is staying in an un-happy marriage/relationship when your heart is elsewhere.

 

Plus you can all think about it this way. If there is a husband or wife who is no longer in love with their spouse while being in love with someone else, that will create a frustration which will be a ticking time bomb within that house that would be set to explode anytime in the future. Is that ticking time bomb something you ever want to have children see????.........of course not. Plus on the individual level, it's NOT healthy.

 

My parents were divorced by the time I was around 10, and even though my father didn't live with us anymore, he still was a great dad that I saw plenty and he always communicated with me. Whatever happened between my mother and father was between THEM. I had two great parents......because from the time I was born, both communicated with me plenty.

 

So my only advice to people is that communication to your kids is the key.

[y2k]

Where I live the courts make no judgement as to fidelity and the ability to parent. Rightfully so.

 

I'll agree with those courts. They're right.

 

Fidelity is an issue between a person and his/her spouse, NOT his/her children.

 

Like I stated earlier, a person could be a WONDERFUL spouse, while being a terrible parent. Also a person can be a TERRIBLE spouse, while being an incredible parent.

[y2k]

I don't buy the whole "staying for the sake of the children" yet screwing around thing as being good for the children at all. If you want what's best for your children, you man up and treat their other parent with dignity and respect. If you can't do that, you get out as peaceably as possible and do whatever it takes to stay in your child's life. I do personally, think it's easier when they are young that's just an opinion.

 

Well stated. It is possible to get out peacefully of an un-happy marriage with kids and start another.

 

If divorce rates are over 50% these days, then it shouldn't be a big shock if people divorce and start over again, even with children. It's not wrong, and soon it will probably not be that unusual.

[y2k]

And rejected it after all of...maybe 4 weeks. I guess I decided they (the kids, who were 3 and 5) deserved a HAPPY, INVOLVED parent and not a MISERABLE INVOLVED parent.

 

Its my mantra for this thread (and one I very powerfully believe - and live): Kids don't need married parents they need INVOLVED parents (or parent).

 

This is the best thing I've heard all thread. Great words. Kids need HAPPY INVOLVED parents, NOT miserable involved parents.

[donnamaybe]

Where I live the courts make no judgement as to fidelity and the ability to parent. Rightfully so.

That wasn't my point. There's been a lot of focus in this thread on the "poor" WS that has nothing to do with court. It's obvious, at least to me, that if someone can't deal with their family with honesty, they aren't giving two hoots about them. It would be easier on everyone, children included, if a spouse HONESTLY ended their M instead of all this lying and sneaking about. Therefore, I am of the opinion that in that situation I wouldn't give a damn about what they wanted as regards the children and, in fact, that they really don't care enough ABOUT their children that I should, and I would do everything in my power to make sure my children were as unaffected as possible by the actions of the WS which may or may not include provisions in the parenting plan, and I would fight for every bit of it, with the help of a good attorney, tooth and nail. That's not to say the judge is going to make determinations based on the cheating (as you alluded to above), but there are other ways of persuading a judge. And it wouldn't be about revenge but about weighing the behavior of the WS and how his obvious lack of concern could hurt my children in future dealings with their father. I would, however, take into consideration the wants of my children when making decisions of that sort.

Edited August 25, 2011 by donnamaybe

[Silly_Girl]

The moral choices of the parent as an individual are just that. If a parent behaves in a way that impacts the children negatively, obviously it needs addressing, whether it be driving like a lunatic and putting them in danger, not sending them to school regularly or anything else.

 

Just because you yourself make a judgement regarding infidelity does not automatically mean the children suffer. They might... But they also might not.