MM wants to tell people about us

[John Michael Kane]

And I guess OP doesn't realize that people GOSSIP. The more people told, the more people tell.

 

As for poor MM, dealing with a terminal wife, kids, job....oh boo flipping hoo.

 

Welcome to life. Welcome to being married with kids. His inability to be faithful is astounding; yet you want to talk about how stressed and overwhelmed he is and how he needs an outlet Gimme a break. He is selfish. He is selfish and self serving. He is doing what many women do every single day. He isn't some hero or some God because he is helping with his wife's care and taking care of his children.

 

The fact that he has found time to have a mistress during ALL his responsibilities ..... yeah, poor guy. Heck, you honestly have no idea if you are his first mistress either.

 

You seem to think you are the only person who can 'help' him; when in reality ,you aren't helping him cope or deal with what life has thrown him. You are enabling him to continue to be a cheater, a liar and untrustworthy. You say you are in love with him...how in the world can you be 'in love' with some guy who is cheating on his wife and his children? You say he loves his wife! OMG, yeah, his actions and behaviors SCREAM how much he loves his wife, right? Can only image what he would be doing if he didn't love his wife.

 

I believe, like the others, that when his wife dies, he will be filled with so much guilt and self hate over his behavior while she was sick that you will end up regretting the affair and he will have no desire to be with you. He will be sickened by his actions; and rightfully so.

 

Then again, from your posts, I see you sticking with him and hoping and waiting for 'your time' with him.

 

Great post......

[spice4life]

Gosh, your situation is very tragic and I can't imagine what it must feel like...it has to be very hard because you love him. I've read through a lot of posts and I think yu have received a lot things to think about, but I think it is more simple than that. I see this as a case of a man who is maried and is trying desparately to appease your needs in the only way he can to keep you in his life. I don't really see that as a good thing. He is trying to fit you in to suit his own selfish needs. It sounds harsh, I know. If this man truly cared about you he would respect that he CANNOT give you what you want and need to be happy. If he cared he would accept his choices and responsibilities and simply let you go. He has responsibilities that will not allow you to be a full part of his life and he is showing you now what he is able to give. That is his choice and his responsibility, not yours no matter how much you love him. Is this something you are able to live with? Are you willing to bend to what he needs and wants without expecting anything more in return? Tough decision and one you realy need to take a good long hard look at...no?

[Gentlegirl]

As a physician I would agree. Even for secondary causes of dementia, under the age of 65 it's rare.

 

I had no idea of the wife's age,but it is early for dementia.

 

Are you SURE he is telling you the truth about that?

 

I understand in a small town that it would be common knowledge if the lady were terminally ill, but you haven't actually said kind of illness it is.

I think you said something like dementia has set in as a result of the illness or the drugs?

 

Just asking...

Gentlegirl

[seren]

Possibly pre senile dementia as opposed to Alzheimer's which is a different thing altogether. I would advise paying attention to the most helpful piece of advice I have read for carer's. It is simply this - Treat the patient with the dignity and respect that a normal person with feelings deserves. I am not going to harp on about A's in general and respect etc as this is the OW/OM board and I don't think that this is the main issue, in this post at least. However, I do think it is incredibly cruel to parade another woman around in front of people who might at one time been the BS friends, personally, I would find it not only distasteful, I would be dammed angry that my friend was being ridiculed. No matter if she knows or not, it is as though she no longer exists, which of course she does. It is the whole, she doesn't know or isn't aware, which on the whole applies to most BS, dementia or no that reeks of disrespect and compartmentalising to the bloody 'nth degree. You are not his wife, he should not expect you to take her place, bloody disrespectful to you too IMHO.

 

How on earth does he find the time to spend so much time with you if he is the primary carer and works all day? I understand that caring is so hard, I understand that he needs comfort and succour, that is very different from having an open relationship with you when his wife isn't made aware of it. Hmmm, says a lot about him TBH, yet I have a certain amount of empathy for him, but just know that if it were my H and even if I looked for comfort elsewhere, I would never, ever disrespect him in this way. Imagine if it were you, she is not a thing to be erased, but a woman with feelings, dementia or no.

 

I would also say that having seen similar situations, once the person dies, the one having an affair is so tied up with would'a, could'a, should'a that the transferrence of guilt is more than very likely and that may land on you.

[eleanor01]

I was interested in your story so I read your other posts. This is troubling. It is extremely rare for a woman in her 50's to have dementia. If your story is real, you should know that women with early-onset dementia or Alzheimer's (early meaning in the 60's) typically live for a decade or more. I have visited a lot of infidelity forums. This one seems to have a lion's share of controversial threads.

As a physician I would agree. Even for secondary causes of dementia, under the age of 65 it's rare.

I had no idea of the wife's age,but it is early for dementia.

 

Are you SURE he is telling you the truth about that?

 

I understand in a small town that it would be common knowledge if the lady were terminally ill, but you haven't actually said kind of illness it is.

I think you said something like dementia has set in as a result of the illness or the drugs?

 

Just asking...

Gentlegirl

 

Hello, Auntie Em, Tenacity, and Gentlegirl--

 

I just paid for the premium membership so that I could PM you about W's condition. I sent gg one message, but it didn't show up in my sent mail folder. Then I sent her another one, but that's also not showing up in my sent mail folder so I don't know if they are going through. If you get the PMs, could you please just let me know if you got it? I'm not expecting a long response that would take you a lot of time, I just would like to know that my messages arrived.

 

Many thanks,

Ellie

[eleanor01]

Auntie Em--

 

I just noticed that you only have one post (and I'm flattered that it's directed to me!). Given that you only have one post, I just don't feel comfortable sending you a PM with details about W's condition. I hope that you understand my reluctance. It's nothing personal.

 

Thanks,

Ellie

[eleanor01]

Hi, Everyone--

 

I'm going to try to answer some of the questions you have posed, first for the sake of clarity, and second as an update.

 

1. Yes, W is really, really sick. Yes, she is terminal and she does have dementia, but it's not Alzheimer's.

 

2. MM really doesn't have that much time to spend with me (which was one reason--among many--why I was thinking, "WTF" about his suggestion to tell this married couple, When, exactly, did he think we were going to socialize?). Mostly, we talk via email or telephone. The only time we see each other is for an hour or two here and there during the day when he'll take a little bit of time off of work. Also, I travel a lot, and for much of that I don't have email or phone contact. That's also a limiting factor in our relationship.

 

3. The unanimous opinion here is that it is a really bad idea to tell our married friends about us. There are many reasons for that, and I agree with almost all of them. Your responses and thoughts and opinions have been very helpful, as it's helped me organize my thoughts. We will not be telling our friends.

 

4. NoIDidn't--thank you. I will order that book today.

 

Again, thank you,

Ellie

[whichwayisup]

We will not be telling our friends.

 

Glad to hear this.

 

Though, what was the rush to tell all? Why involve more people in this and put them in a situation that they didn't ask to be put in and possibly have to choose sides (you and him vs his wife) causing uncomfortableness.

 

I did reply to you earlier, just wondering what your thoughts are on my suggestions?

[eleanor01]

Gosh, your situation is very tragic and I can't imagine what it must feel like...it has to be very hard because you love him. I've read through a lot of posts and I think yu have received a lot things to think about, but I think it is more simple than that. I see this as a case of a man who is maried and is trying desparately to appease your needs in the only way he can to keep you in his life. I don't really see that as a good thing. He is trying to fit you in to suit his own selfish needs. It sounds harsh, I know. If this man truly cared about you he would respect that he CANNOT give you what you want and need to be happy. If he cared he would accept his choices and responsibilities and simply let you go. He has responsibilities that will not allow you to be a full part of his life and he is showing you now what he is able to give. That is his choice and his responsibility, not yours no matter how much you love him. Is this something you are able to live with? Are you willing to bend to what he needs and wants without expecting anything more in return? Tough decision and one you realy need to take a good long hard look at...no?

 

Hey, thanks--

 

Your words are very kind. I have to say, though, that the situation really isn't that tragic for me. I'm just tangential to the real tragedy.

 

Anyway, your post has given me food for thought. I'll mull it over. I haven't seen him since Friday and might seem him tomorrow, maybe not for over a week (I have to go out of town).

 

Best,

Ellie

[eleanor01]

Your options:

 

1)Continue the A, quietly and hope for the best after his wife passes away.

 

2)End it and walk away, start again when the timing is right and he's had time alone to grieve the loss of his wife and family unit as one.

 

3)The previous from another reply. Come clean. Talk to him about this, telling his wife "the plan" and be included in her care. She knows you? If she does and she respects you, there's a tiny chance she'll want her husband to be happy in the future. Just don't flaunt it in her face and be affectionate or lovey dovey when around her IF you two do tell her the truth. Though, it could back fire completely and she could freak out, want nothing to do with you or him, kick him out..Then the fallout would be huge, including his kids. This is the sort of stuff that tears families apart and words are said that can never ever be taken back.

 

Maybe it's time to involve a therapist in this situation, get a professional opinion that understands the pro's and con's of handling this the proper and fair/respectful way.

 

This whole situation is painful but this all still falls on the head of your MM. He never should have come to you during this time, and it's too bad you didn't turn him away...he should have relied on close friends and other family members, take up hobbies to allow him some 'alone time'. Now he has a potiential time bomb ticking and it could go either way.

 

Hey, WWIU--

 

Sorry--didn't mean to ignore you. Your outline of options is astute. But, I can't really say what direction I'm leaniing right now. I need to think about things, and talk to him. #3 is not option; had it been, we would have already done that (I guess. . . hard to know since we didn't talk about it, because it wasn't an option. . .).

 

Regarding how well I know her--not well. She was a few years ahead of me in school and then moved away. She just moved back here after the terminal diagnosis. I haven't seen much of her.

 

Thanks for your time and thought,

Ellie

[fooled once]

- Treat the patient with the dignity and respect that a normal person with feelings deserves. ..... However, I do think it is incredibly cruel to parade another woman around in front of people who might at one time been the BS friends, personally, I would find it not only distasteful, I would be dammed angry that my friend was being ridiculed. No matter if she knows or not, it is as though she no longer exists, which of course she does. It is the whole, she doesn't know or isn't aware, which on the whole applies to most BS, dementia or no that reeks of disrespect and compartmentalising to the bloody 'nth degree. You are not his wife, he should not expect you to take her place, bloody disrespectful to you too IMHO.

 

How on earth does he find the time to spend so much time with you if he is the primary carer and works all day? I understand that caring is so hard, I understand that he needs comfort and succour, that is very different from having an open relationship with you when his wife isn't made aware of it. Hmmm, says a lot about him TBH, yet I have a certain amount of empathy for him, but just know that if it were my H and even if I looked for comfort elsewhere, I would never, ever disrespect him in this way. Imagine if it were you, she is not a thing to be erased, but a woman with feelings, dementia or no.

 

I would also say that having seen similar situations, once the person dies, the one having an affair is so tied up with would'a, could'a, should'a that the transferrence of guilt is more than very likely and that may land on you.

 

 

Great post Seren!

 

I think someone asked, but wasn't sure if the OP answered, but if the wife wasn't sick, would an affair would even be happening? OP how can you be okay with being the back up? You mention several times how much he loves his wife; maybe he is truly thinking of her when with you and trying to make you her and pretend that his wife isn't sick? Honestly, how do you respect him knowing he supposedly loves his wife?

 

Originally Posted by NoIDidn't

I was listening to an interview on the radio about this topic recently.

 

The man, who wrote a book about it, decided he wanted to date since his W had Alzheimer's. The interviewer seemed uncomfortable but non-judgmental about his decision. He said his girlfriend AND he visited his W in the hospital together frequently, or sometimes the girlfriend would go without him and visit the W.

 

I liked his situation. A high school teacher had the same setup when his W was dying from a brain tumor too. The women they were dating had to know and care for their Ws as well. In the teacher's situation, his W went so far as to hook the two up since she knew she was dying. In the author's situation, his W doesn't even know he's her husband anymore.

 

My point, I don't think his plan is horrid BUT.....big BUT here......I think he needs to discuss the whole thing with his family. Sneaking around with mutual friends looks devious and not like he's looking for support, but like he's screwing his family over of his time and energy. Having his family's blessing to incorporate you into his life would lessen society's glare. Some people will still talk but that would be their problem once the family is no longer in the dark AND gives their blessing.

 

Thanks for this NiD. I can totally see the scenario you described and that is completely opposite of the original posters story. I hope she can see that and see that the sneaking around IS going to one day be well known and many people will be hurt and may never forgive her and the MM for what they are doing.

[eleanor01]

I think someone asked, but wasn't sure if the OP answered, but 1. if the wife wasn't sick, would an affair would even be happening? 2. OP how can you be okay with being the back up? You mention several times how much he loves his wife; 3. maybe he is truly thinking of her when with you and trying to make you her and pretend that his wife isn't sick? Honestly, how do you respect him knowing he supposedly loves his wife?

 

So, this thread is starting go pretty far afield of my original questions.

1. No, the affair wouldn't have happened if the wife were not sick. If she were well, they would not have had to move back here.

2. Well, I don't suppose I can be anything else but the backup at this point. His priorities right now have to be with his family.

3. Okay, that was convoluted and it's pretty disturbing that you even came up with it.

 

Ellie

[eleanor01]

1. Though, what was the rush to tell all? 2.Why involve more people in this and put them in a situation that they didn't ask to be put in and possibly have to choose sides (you and him vs his wife) causing uncomfortableness.

 

1. There wasn't any rush on my part. I didn't want to do it. In my original post I said:

. . .my lover has started talking about maybe telling a married couple with whom we are both good friends [about us]. He'd very much like to socialize with them occasionally. . . . In short, I think that telling any more people than we have would be an enormous mistake.

 

2. I had indicated that I thought that telling this couple about us would cause them to freak out:

I just don't see that presenting ourselves as a couple to two people who really are a couple could do anything other than freak them out.

 

I should give credit here to the many posters who helped me look past the possible immediate freak-out. That was a place I needed to go.

 

Best,

Ellie

Edited August 16, 2011 by eleanor01

[Kitsune77]

Ellie, it could be as simple as he wants to spend some time with the other woman he loves (you), in the company of mutual suportive friends. I think there is a danger of to much over analysing going on here.

 

You may have read some of what I posted about my ex husbands wife dying. He nursed her for 4 years, did everything possible to try and find a cure for her, and was unfaithful to her at the same time.I also mentioned that if she hadn't gotten ill, they would have divorced (his words, not mine) Instead he choose to stay and look after her....He didn't choose to leave her while she was dying, and he didn't choose to be faithful in a romantic relationship that had died for both of them (mutual infidelity) years before. He chose to do what I see as the honourable thing, which was to look after her while she was dying. They loved each other as friends, not as lovers by that stage.

 

She was also aware that he was seeing others at that stage, and from what I was told (by mutual friends) she was happy that he had people to share his burdens with.

 

I know a lot of posters will not agree with what i am saying, but people do what they do to get through. And if I remember from your previous posts, your affair started from before she was ill, so I think its fair to say that their were problems in that marriage for a long time.

 

Your man does sound like a good man (I'm sure I'll be crucified by some over that statement) trying to do his best in a difficult situation. Do I think you should go public? I think that is up to how comfortable you feel with the situation, and also how it may turn out if his wife and children know.

 

All i know is that death, and dying, often has a way of cutting through what we traditionally think is right or wrong, and people who care about your MM and his wife, may not have the issue with it that you think.

 

Please take what you can from the advise you get on this forum, but remember, YOU and he are the only one that knows this situation clearly.

 

And to respond to some of the other responses you have got here, I for one do not think he will leave you when his wife dies.

The best of luck to you, Ellie Girl

[woinlove]

Ellie, it could be as simple as he wants to spend some time with the other woman he loves (you), in the company of mutual suportive friends. I think there is a danger of to much over analysing going on here.

 

You may have read some of what I posted about my ex husbands wife dying. He nursed her for 4 years, did everything possible to try and find a cure for her, and was unfaithful to her at the same time.I also mentioned that if she hadn't gotten ill, they would have divorced (his words, not mine) Instead he choose to stay and look after her....He didn't choose to leave her while she was dying, and he didn't choose to be faithful in a romantic relationship that had died for both of them (mutual infidelity) years before. He chose to do what I see as the honourable thing, which was to look after her while she was dying. They loved each other as friends, not as lovers by that stage.

 

She was also aware that he was seeing others at that stage, and from what I was told (by mutual friends) she was happy that he had people to share his burdens with.

 

I know a lot of posters will not agree with what i am saying, but people do what they do to get through. And if I remember from your previous posts, your affair started from before she was ill, so I think its fair to say that their were problems in that marriage for a long time.

 

Your man does sound like a good man (I'm sure I'll be crucified by some over that statement) trying to do his best in a difficult situation. Do I think you should go public? I think that is up to how comfortable you feel with the situation, and also how it may turn out if his wife and children know.

 

All i know is that death, and dying, often has a way of cutting through what we traditionally think is right or wrong, and people who care about your MM and his wife, may not have the issue with it that you think.

 

Please take what you can from the advise you get on this forum, but remember, YOU and he are the only one that knows this situation clearly.

 

And to respond to some of the other responses you have got here, I for one do not think he will leave you when his wife dies.

The best of luck to you, Ellie Girl

 

Honesty/openness and lying/deception are very different and have a different effect on the people involved. Being in an open M, I can say one can have relationships, emotional, physical or both, that do not cause problems for the M or the spouse, while deception and betrayal would be a huge problem for me that could end our M.

 

If your exH was open and honest and the two chose to stay M, that is their choice, and very different than hiding a secret affair. However, eleanor says that was never an option in this case.

 

I'm not sure why it isn't an option, eleanor, and I would advocate honesty if you two want to continue your R. With 3 children who I think you said were in their teens, I just don't see how this can remain a secret from them. It seems fairly common for teens to figure things out before the BS. Under the circumstances, dealing with a dying mother, they are quite unlikely to say anything to either parent in that case, but that would not mean it did not affect them in a profound way.

 

Of course, the very best time for honesty would have been before MM became involved. If his W objected, he would have had to make a choice. Personally, I have not and would not get involved with anyone if my H objected because I love him and am committed to him. But that is a moot point here, as for some reason, MM decided to give honesty and openness a pass and you went along with it, bringing it into your own life. Even still, I think more harm accumulates the longer one keeps deception and dishonesty in one's life and, typically, one has to then deal with that at some point.

Edited August 17, 2011 by woinlove

[26pointblue]

2. Well, I don't suppose I can be anything else but the backup at this point. His priorities right now have to be with his family.

 

Ellie

 

Please take this as just my opinion as a former OW who has learned for sure what love is not. I don't believe that what he is doing to you is love . . . he is using you knowing you are the backup . . . & what you are doing to yourself by allowing him to do this is not love for yourself. What he is doing to his wife is not love either. . . cheating on her while she is still alive, when I'm assuming he vowed to forsake all others until death did them part -- not only that, but making a fool of her by telling other people he is with you while she's dying, carrying on with these secrets & lies while his family members are dealing with her illness & impending death . . . is not love either. It is all just selfish on his part & co-dependency/enabling on your part. I understand this is a hard time for him but there are much better outlets & resources he should avail himself of than taking on a secret mistress. It is BS to me that he can have an affair & tell people about it & want to tell even more people about it, but not go to counseling to get the help he obviously needs [& who wouldn't, in such a situation]. He is being weak in his way of handling this & you are enabling him.

 

Again this is just my opinion & I am not trying to condemn or judge you but I just don't understand how you can willingly allow yourself to be back-up & put yourself in this situation. Nor do I understand how you can think this is love - on his part or yours. I am trying to understand based on my own past decisions but I suppose it's beyond my realm of comprehension. And despite-- perhaps because of-- my many past mistakes, I am convinced that this is neither the right thing for you to be doing nor the right situation for you to be in - it is not being good to yourself. I wish you well.