Christian Esoterica

[PratyekaYana]

I have recently come to greatly appreciate dialoguing with Christians of a mystical/esoteric bent, and, to that end, I am curious as to how much of a presence that side of Christianity has on the LS forums? Are there any Christians here that have what you might term unconventional views of their faith? Any Neoplatonists, Gnostics, Hermeticists, etc. present?

[Feelin Frisky]

I'm more or less what you call your Christian atheist.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

I don't see any value in Christ's story when it is related in terms of super-natural assumption. But if we keep it all human and in real nature and take out the conditions of faith and worship, the story of Christ comes alive with substance and meaning. In effect, if you value Christ as strictly a man then you can find the stuff that made him a memorable figure inside yourself. If you look elsewhere for it to be delivered, it won't come.

[Forever Learning]

I have recently come to greatly appreciate dialoguing with Christians of a mystical/esoteric bent, and, to that end, I am curious as to how much of a presence that side of Christianity has on the LS forums? Are there any Christians here that have what you might term unconventional views of their faith? Any Neoplatonists, Gnostics, Hermeticists, etc. present?

 

 

The message Jesus delivered, as a man, is what Jesus would have us conduct our lives by. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Love thy neighbor.

 

It seems to me, the rest is just distracting fluff created by the church to manipulate and control the masses to suit their needs.

 

*********************************************

 

On another subject, I would like to ask you (or anyone reading this right now) if in your travels you have had any experience or know anything about the following subjects:

 

The Hermetic Order Of The Golden Dawn

Ramtha

The Free Masons

Seth Speaks

Magik

The Illuminati

Spiritual Cord Cutting

Faeries

Alister Crowley

Astral Plane Travel

Reincarnation

Aliens/UFO's, in particular at Machu Picchu

The Void

Walmart Bunkers

 

Pick one and roll with it.

[PratyekaYana]

I'm more or less what you call your Christian atheist.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

I don't see any value in Christ's story when it is related in terms of super-natural assumption. But if we keep it all human and in real nature and take out the conditions of faith and worship, the story of Christ comes alive with substance and meaning. In effect, if you value Christ as strictly a man then you can find the stuff that made him a memorable figure inside yourself. If you look elsewhere for it to be delivered, it won't come.

 

Very intriguing, Feelin Frisky. I've observed this philosophy cropping up in some of the circles in which I travel. Those that practice it usually refer to it as a kind of Christian humanism and their reasons for having adopted said philosophy run parallel to some of thoughts that you expressed. Personally, I am of the opposite persuasion, though I have absolutely no grievances with the humanistic point of view. My worldview is steeped in Neoplatonic/Hermetic thought, and that requires manifest divinity (perhaps not in the sense traditionally taught) in the Christ figure in order to maintain internal consistency. What I share with the Christian humanists, though, is the belief that by looking within ourselves we might also find a representation/parallel of Christ that can positively inform our progression as a species. So I can relate to some degree, FF.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[Feelin Frisky]

I don't go around thinking about it much in the terms of "WWJD" or "what would Jesus do?", but saying it that way gets me off the hook of just saying atheist which draws people's ire a lot more unfortunately. What the heck is an atheist? It's nothing really. And I do have strong spiritual feelings about people and nature. I just won't have super-nature and Jesus Christ's apparent actions (rather than any words which have passed though translations sponsored by patrons with agendas) speak timeless messages about fellowship and courage to stand alone against popular belief when it's dysfunctional. Nice talking with you about it. Be well.

[D-Lish]

Jesus may have had some inspiring things to say, but he was just a man.

 

The Bible was written by man through heresay- Jesus never wrote anything himself. Christianity has been perpetuated through folklore. How people in the year 2011 still cling to this ridiculousness perplexes me.

 

There are plenty of other figures in history (and present day) that have said and done more impressive things. Socrates comes to mind as does Stephen Hawking.

[quankanne]

How people in the year 2011 still cling to this ridiculousness perplexes me. I ask myself the same thing, though from the opposite perspective (sans the ridiculous aspect): What is it about him that nearly 2000 years later, his message is still going strong? Especially when you consider how people have done their best to preach a counter-message. Interesting ...

 

Are there any Christians here that have what you might term unconventional views of their faith? does being Catholic count? LOL

Edited August 14, 2011 by quankanne

[PratyekaYana]

Jesus may have had some inspiring things to say, but he was just a man.

 

The Bible was written by man through heresay- Jesus never wrote anything himself. Christianity has been perpetuated through folklore. How people in the year 2011 still cling to this ridiculousness perplexes me.

 

There are plenty of other figures in history (and present day) that have said and done more impressive things. Socrates comes to mind as does Stephen Hawking.

 

To some it is sheer ridiculousness, to others it is dogma, and to others still it is a matter of initiatory experiences. My conception of the Godhead is of an emanating essence (similar to the spheres/sephiroth cosmologies that you find in Jewish mysticism), so Christ as a particular emanation of the Monad is not that difficult for me to accept. For you, lacking that experience, such a worldview is tantamount to lunacy and I certainly understand that. Thank you for sharing, D-Lish.

[PratyekaYana]

My apologies for answering your post out of order, Forever Learning. I initially missed it scrolling with my phone's browser.

 

 

The message Jesus delivered, as a man, is what Jesus would have us conduct our lives by. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Love thy neighbor.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement here. You could summarize the entire Christian ministry as an edict to simply love another as you'd love yourself.

 

It seems to me, the rest is just distracting fluff created by the church to manipulate and control the masses to suit their needs.

 

I can see how certain doctrinal aspects of Christianity could have been used for political/social control, but I would argue that there is quite a bit of value in that fluff nevertheless. It just isn't immediately apparent.

 

 

 

*********************************************

 

On another subject, I would like to ask you (or anyone reading this right now) if in your travels you have had any experience or know anything about the following subjects:

 

The Hermetic Order Of The Golden Dawn

Ramtha

The Free Masons

Seth Speaks

Magik

The Illuminati

Spiritual Cord Cutting

Faeries

Alister Crowley

Astral Plane Travel

Reincarnation

Aliens/UFO's, in particular at Machu Picchu

The Void

Walmart Bunkers

 

Pick one and roll with it.

 

I'll throw out small blurbs on the subjects that I can knowledgeably speak on; the others, I'll leave undisturbed .

 

Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn - once venerable tradition of mystical seekers; plagued by in-fighting and leadership disputes.

 

Freemasons - fraternal order with the mission statement of bringing men to their highest character; loads of conspiracy stuff abound.

 

Magick - practices designed to bring about change through what are considered supernatural means.

 

Crowley - it's not easy to think of a more polarizing figure.

 

There, lol. Do with these as you see fit.

[D-Lish]

To some it is sheer ridiculousness, to others it is dogma, and to others still it is a matter of initiatory experiences. My conception of the Godhead is of an emanating essence (similar to the spheres/sephiroth cosmologies that you find in Jewish mysticism), so Christ as a particular emanation of the Monad is not that difficult for me to accept. For you, lacking that experience, such a worldview is tantamount to lunacy and I certainly understand that. Thank you for sharing, D-Lish.

 

Well, I am a Religious Studies Major, and I've read the Bible from cover to cover.... I'm still an Atheist. Jesus did nothing to convince me of anything:rolleyes:

 

I've studied Judaism along with everything else... So I am not lacking experience. I've done my research, and a lot of it. Probably a WHOLE lot more than you.

[PratyekaYana]

Well, I am a Religious Studies Major, and I've read the Bible from cover to cover.... I'm still an Atheist. Jesus did nothing to convince me of anything:rolleyes:

 

I've studied Judaism along with everything else... So I am not lacking experience. I've done my research, and a lot of it. Probably a WHOLE lot more than you.

[sIZE=6][/sIZE]

 

You misunderstand me, D-Lish. I was not being snide with my comments to you earlier, and if that is the impression that I gave then I apologize. Moreover, I should have been less ambiguous with my wording. When I spoke of experience, I was referencing an internal experience, an interior gnosis brought about (in my case) through spiritual practices and exercises. I don't doubt that you are very well versed exoterically in the Christian faith, and many others for that matter, but I speak more to a less tangible grasping of the doctrine.

 

I hope that brings some clarity to what I wrote beforehand.

[CarrieT]

 

On another subject, I would like to ask you (or anyone reading this right now) if in your travels you have had any experience or know anything about the following subjects:

 

The Hermetic Order Of The Golden Dawn

Ramtha

The Free Masons

Seth Speaks

Magik

The Illuminati

Spiritual Cord Cutting

Faeries

Alister Crowley

Astral Plane Travel

Reincarnation

Aliens/UFO's, in particular at Machu Picchu

The Void

Walmart Bunkers

 

Pick one and roll with it.

 

 

I have extensive experience with those above which I have made bold. Just so you know, "Freemasons" is one word not two, magik" is spelled "magick," and "Alister Crowley" is spelled "Aleister Crowley" and is pronounced crow (like the bird) lee - not the way Ozzy sings it, like you would begin to pronounce crowd without the "d"...

 

I have been involved with the Ordo Templi Orientis for almost two decades.

[Forever Learning]

My apologies for answering your post out of order, Forever Learning. I initially missed it scrolling with my phone's browser.

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty much in agreement here. You could summarize the entire Christian ministry as an edict to simply love another as you'd love yourself.

 

 

 

I can see how certain doctrinal aspects of Christianity could have been used for political/social control, but I would argue that there is quite a bit of value in that fluff nevertheless. It just isn't immediately apparent.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll throw out small blurbs on the subjects that I can knowledgeably speak on; the others, I'll leave undisturbed .

 

Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn - once venerable tradition of mystical seekers; plagued by in-fighting and leadership disputes.

 

Freemasons - fraternal order with the mission statement of bringing men to their highest character; loads of conspiracy stuff abound.

 

Magick - practices designed to bring about change through what are considered supernatural means.

 

Crowley - it's not easy to think of a more polarizing figure.

 

There, lol. Do with these as you see fit.

 

 

Thank you for the response - and I am so sorry I hijacked your thread! My apologies. I shall start my own thread regarding any of these items in the future. Sometimes I am a bull in a china shop! Where are my manners? Sorry. But thank you for your response!

[Forever Learning]

I have extensive experience with those above which I have made bold. Just so you know, "Freemasons" is one word not two, magik" is spelled "magick," and "Alister Crowley" is spelled "Aleister Crowley" and is pronounced crow (like the bird) lee - not the way Ozzy sings it, like you would begin to pronounce crowd without the "d"...

 

I have been involved with the Ordo Templi Orientis for almost two decades.

 

Thank you, I shall be in contact privately later. I appreciate it.

[PratyekaYana]

Thank you for the response - and I am so sorry I hijacked your thread! My apologies. I shall start my own thread regarding any of these items in the future. Sometimes I am a bull in a china shop! Where are my manners? Sorry. But thank you for your response!

 

Nonsense! There is no apology necessary. I asked for unconventional Christian affiliations, and any of the mystery tradition schools (Golden Dawn, Thelemic, or otherwise) are fair game. So, if you'd like to extend the conversation into those arenas in my thread feel free. I've only worked in a GD setting, so my opinions will be colored by that experience, but I am grateful that we have a Thelemite (CarrieT) amongst us to provide her own spin on any issues discussed.

[sally4sara]

How people in the year 2011 still cling to this ridiculousness perplexes me. I ask myself the same thing, though from the opposite perspective (sans the ridiculous aspect): What is it about him that nearly 2000 years later, his message is still going strong?

 

I always thought this question had an obvious answer.

The fear of Hell and winding up there is a big motivator.

 

The other is cradle inductee practices. We don't want to disappoint grandma and our parents.

[quankanne]

fear is a strong motivator, but not everyone can count it as their motivation ... familiarity, maybe?

 

the proper answer is that Christianity has prospered because the Holy Spirit – through God and Jesus – is at work.

[sally4sara]

fear is a strong motivator, but not everyone can count it as their motivation ... familiarity, maybe?

 

the proper answer is that Christianity has prospered because the Holy Spirit – through God and Jesus – is at work.

 

I don't think this is a subject with a proper answer. It might piss off Shiva, Orisha, Buddha, Allah, Oden, Diana, and the Force. We wouldn't want that now would we?

[PratyekaYana]

I don't think this is a subject with a proper answer. It might piss off Shiva, Orisha, Buddha, Allah, Oden, Diana, and the Force. We wouldn't want that now would we?

 

Perhaps the less contentious answer, pulling entirely from a personal perspective mind you, would be that the innate spark of divinity indwelling humanity is what keeps our many expressions of spirituality aloft. At some level, each of us seeks conscious reintegration with the One from which we descend; the spark seeks what is like itself. Thus, Christianity persists because the Christ figure is an excellent model for that reintegration, as is the Buddha (assuming a more Mahayana perspective anyway), as is any number of beings who have successfully completed such a journey. Even the non-corporeal intelligences that we reference in the form of the orisha, the loa, or the Greco-Roman gods and goddesses are in their own way representative of that desire.

 

My two cents anyway.

[Eve]

I have recently come to greatly appreciate dialoguing with Christians of a mystical/esoteric bent, and, to that end, I am curious as to how much of a presence that side of Christianity has on the LS forums? Are there any Christians here that have what you might term unconventional views of their faith? Any Neoplatonists, Gnostics, Hermeticists, etc. present?

 

View points interest me but not as much as a positive personality and positive actions. God is love. So saying, I have read a lot about the Gnostics... h'mmm, I like them.

 

I do have a preference and this is those who have been minding their own business, living their lives and then *BAM*, have a remarkable experience. It is these persons who I feel a greater affinity towards. As such I am most interested in psychics currently.

 

Personally, though I bow to Christ, I am in body, bloodline and soul a Shaman. Religiously, I like Hindus more often than Christians, even though I am one.

 

All in all, I don't take much notice of those who talk about philosophies and behave like heathens. After many years of figting against it.. I just don't bother with them. Some of those mentioned here are nothing more than hedonists and so I am unsure why they are linked to Christianity in any way shape or form ..

 

Take care,

Eve x