Seeing a woman who doesn't like uncircumcised, might be a deal breaker for her

[Nexus One]

Maybe, and I said maybe that's true if I was already in love. But I've never really been in love prior to having sex (nor do I think I COULD fall in love prior), so I have trouble imagining that.

 

And, as I said, it wouldn't be a nice thing to do. But neither would I relish having sex with a man I had no desire to be with. In most circumstances, I don't consider myself a shallow person, but in this, I admitted it sounds shallow but there it is. I'll never be dishonest about who I am, even if it makes me look bad.

 

Well at least you're honest about it, that I can appreciate. It adds to the discussion.

[TBH]

How about loss of sensation and having the most sensitive part of the body. I don't wish something like that on anyone. Sex is a big part of a relationship and life in general, you don't start cutting at the most sensitive part of it.

 

I've read an article a while ago about couples these days arguing about circumcision of their baby boys. Many women want it, but most father don't want to do it to their sons. I think that is because they undestand the involved pain and future implications. In my opinion those women are shallow and don't love their sons enough, they'd rather sacrifice a part of their son's sensation and have them go through intense pain, instead of accepting how they are born.

 

+1 for fathers on this point.

 

i agree completely. also, there can be major problems later on in life after puberty as sometimes too much skin is removed making erections and sex painfull.

I could never, ever submit my child to a cosmetic operation which could potentially cause him problems later on in life, not to mention the loss of sensation.

 

It would be interesting to hear from someone who lives where female circumcision is generally practised. i doubt removal of the clitorus would be welcomed by any woman, or man outside of those countries for that matter.

Edited August 16, 2011 by TBH

[MrNate]

i agree completely. also, there can be major problems later on in life after puberty as sometimes too much skin is removed making erections and sex painfull.

I could never, ever submit my child to a cosmetic operation which could potentially cause him problems later on in life, not to mention the loss of sensation.

 

It would be interesting to hear from someone who lives where female circumcision is generally practised. i doubt removal of the clitorus would be welcomed by any woman, or man outside of those countries for that matter.

 

There really is no valid reason for having it done, other than aesthetics, which means that well...there is no valid reason for having it done. It's almost like saying.. 'ew, your vagina is too tiny, you need to get a bigger one. they shouldve started you on growth treatment at birth so men will accept and love you.' lol.

 

Needless to say, I will be getting my popcorn made soon.

[OliveOyl]

I don't know. Since it's very much not the norm where I live/with my generation, I'd expect it be mentioned. Personally. But that's just me. I'd mention any physical aberration from the norm I had.

It's not an "aberration." An uncut penis is normal. At least on the West Coast in fact, I think it's becoming more the norm. I'm surprised you haven't seen one in your travels.

 

And when erect, it looks nearly the same as a cut one.

[zengirl]

It's not an "aberration." An uncut penis is normal. At least on the West Coast in fact, I think it's becoming more the norm. I'm surprised you haven't seen one in your travels.

 

And when erect, it looks nearly the same as a cut one.

 

Well, I've not seen that many penises. Most of the men I've dated have been from the American South. One Brit boy, and he was also circed. I dated a lot of guys but wasn't there long enough to have a relationship/have sex. To me, the two are the same.

 

And if it's "becoming" anything, wouldn't those guys be too young for me to see their penises?

 

If I saw one and wasn't bothered by it, that'd certainly be fine. I don't want to be bothered by physical things, but there are certain physical attributes I'm really picky about, and unfortunately (since you can't see it right away!) penises are one of them. Though our sex life was fine, I hated the look of my college BF's penis (he was circed so that was not the issue) and I thought -- over time -- it was part of why I could never fall in love with him. Luckily, he wasn't in love with me either and I wasn't looking to get married then. But every other guy I've ever screwed? I loved seeing him naked. I just think that's important to a relationship, at least at some point.

 

Once I already loved him, I'm sure I'd deal. But I cannot imagine loving a guy without having sex with him. Though I never had sex with my HS Sweetheart and loved him (but I was a virgin) deeply, so I suppose it's not impossible; he was a Jewish boy though, so I know he was circumcised. They even had a party for it.

Edited August 16, 2011 by zengirl

[TBH]

this makes me laugh. as if removing a little piece of skin suddenly turns it from 'the last chicken in the shop' into a beautiful and flawless work of art.

 

knobs on there own are simply not one of natures most beautiful objects. (i mean aesthetically ) a penis can of course be beautiful but not in the same way as a pretty flower or an exquisite sunset.

 

if the man is gorgeous in your eyes so his penis will be also, cut or uncut!

[Cypress25]

You can't compare male circumcision to female genital mutilation. If done right, male circumcision should not cause any problems. Female circumcision, on the other hand, is supposed to cause problems. The goal is to deter women from having sex before marriage, because they know sex will be extremely painful. The man's penis has to tear through the woman's stitches, literally ripping her vagina open. If the woman lives long enough to have sex, that is. Female circumcision is likely to cause infection and death.

 

Male circumcision does not require stitches and there's almost no chance of infection. And it has no effect on his life after that. If you don't want your son to be circumcised, that's fine, but don't act like male circumcision is cruel and unusual punishment. There are too many circumcised men in the world who have absolutely no problem with it for that argument to be valid.

 

I guess I don't see how the sensitivity thing is an issue because most men I know are circumcised and they still love sex.

 

It's true. This may be hard for the uncut guys to believe, but circumcised men still manage to enjoy sex. We all know how important sex is to men, so if they couldn't enjoy sex for any reason, they would be very vocal about it. Aside from the tiny subset of men who have a penis inferiority complex, circumcised men love sex. It's not a problem for them.

 

Zengirl, I understand you. I wouldn't expect an uncut guy to warn me, but I'm afraid of what my own reaction would be if I was fooling around with a new guy and I discovered an uncut penis. Probably something along the lines of "What the hell is that thing?!" And that would be really awkward for both of us.

 

I know it's natural, but a lot of natural things are a turnoff to me. Pubic hair is natural, but I prefer shaved. Facial hair is natural, but I prefer shaved. (I like smooth skin, lol.) Just because something is natural doesn't mean I have to like it. I wouldn't expect a guy to get circumcised for me, but I don't know if I'd be able to get used to it.

 

I don't think i'm going to get unbiased information from a doctor whose going to make money from doing it.

 

Then what is your plan, OP? Were you planning to get circumcised without ever asking a doctor about it? Is this forum your only source of information on the matter?

 

Besides, you're wrong. See, doctors have to take this oath, whereby they swear to do no harm. So they're not allowed to perform an operation that might harm the patient, even if they could make money from it. It's not the doctor's job to talk you into it, it's his job to answer your questions honestly. Lying to you could cost him his license. I'm sure he makes enough money as it is.

[Asics]

You can't compare male circumcision to female genital mutilation. If done right, male circumcision should not cause any problems.

 

Wrong.

 

"We have shown that the genital cutting of male children is unnecessary, harmful, injurious, a threat to good health, and a violation of the child's human rights. The child's best interests include the protection of his legal right to bodily integrity. Boys whose genital integrity is protected suffer none of the harms and insults described above. They enter life with body, mind, and spirit intact. Genital integrity, therefore, is most likely to provide the highest state of health and well-being." - Doctors Oppsing Circumcision

 

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/statement12.html

 

Male circumcision does not require stitches and there's almost no chance of infection. And it has no effect on his life after that.

 

Wrong again.

 

"The excision of the prepuce exposes the newborn to meatal disease and leaves the patient permanently diminished, with impaired and degraded functions."

 

 

 

 

 

"We have shown in Chapter Four that the immediate complications of non-therapeutic male circumcision primarily include:

• bleeding, that may result in hypovolemic shock and exsanguination;
  
• infection, including life-threatening CA-MRSA;
  
• surgical accident resulting in mutilation, and
  
• death.
  

We have shown in Chapter Five that the post-operative complications of circumcision include:

• urinary retention that may result in ruptured bladder, renal failure, interruption of circulation in the lower extremities, and death;
  
• adhesions and skin bridges that may require surgical separation;
  
• meatitis, meatal ulceration, and meatal stenosis that may require additional surgery;
  
• urinary tract infection;
  
• post-circumcision phimosis, requiring additional surgery;
  
• buried, trapped, or concealed penis, requiring additional surgery;
  
• keloid formation, requiring additional surgery;
  
• circulation problems;
  
• chordee;
  
• inclusion cysts;
  
• lymphedema;
  
• neuromas, and
  
• cancer.
  

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/statement12.html

 

 

I didn't want this to turn into a debate about circumcising babies, but you are so ignorant it beggars belief Cypress25.

 

Read that link I posted and cure yourself of this terrible ignorance, for your own benefit.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Asics

[Asics]

dont you put on the jonny when you're already hard? so foreskin wouldnt normally be an issue as it pulls back over the head when erect anyway.

 

Yeah, but the problem happens when putting the condom on because my short foreskin is stretched so tightly over the shaft that the skin doesn't have any "give" in it. So it hurts when the foreskin gets pulled back and stretched even further by putting the condom on.

[dreamingoftigers]

There's a quick procedure that puts a little slit into it so it has a little give and you can still retain the sensation. I think another LS member had it done and with a much lower risk of complications.

[D-Lish]

It's not an "aberration." An uncut penis is normal. At least on the West Coast in fact, I think it's becoming more the norm. I'm surprised you haven't seen one in your travels.

 

And when erect, it looks nearly the same as a cut one.

 

I know!!!! It looks exactly the same. I didn't even know a bf was uncut because by the time I got my hands or eyes on his package he was fully erect, the skin automatically pulls back and you'd never know the difference.

 

Honestly, if you meet someone you really like, spend some time together and like them enough to have sex with them... Them being cut or uncut shouldn't be an issue. If it is an issue- you have an issue, lol;)

[Sanman]

I don't know. Since it's very much not the norm where I live/with my generation, I'd expect it be mentioned. Personally. But that's just me. I'd mention any physical aberration from the norm I had.

 

I don't know what I'd do. I don't think I could have sex with the guy. As I said, I'm aware it sounds shallow, but I don't see myself marrying a guy who isn't circumcised and I don't sleep with someone I KNOW I wouldn't marry at this point. In the hypothetical scenario in my mind, I'd have to just leave. And I'm sure that'd make me a bitch, but I kind of feel angry at hypothetical guy for not warning me.

 

But maybe if you're in love with someone, it's different than the hypothetical. I certainly hope I don't have to find out. It's just something I, personally, find very unattractive and repellent. Probably my socio-cultural conditioning, but it is what it is.

 

 

I have to admit that I too am surprised to hear that from you zengirl. It isn't like an uncircumcised penis is that different. So, if the perfect guy came along and was uncircumcised you would still dump him? Or would you give him an ultimatum similar to the OP? I honestly feel this is the same as a guy who is dating a girl demanding she get a boob job if he is to continue seeing her. It honestly sounds pretty shallow to me.

[Asics]

That is not just shallow that is very shallow and I can't believe you are the one who wrote that zengirl. That would be like a guy dumping you because he didn't like the look of your labia minora.

 

I have never heard of something like that before.

 

I have to admit that I too am surprised to hear that from you zengirl. It isn't like an uncircumcised penis is that different. So, if the perfect guy came along and was uncircumcised you would still dump him? Or would you give him an ultimatum similar to the OP? I honestly feel this is the same as a guy who is dating a girl demanding she get a boob job if he is to continue seeing her. It honestly sounds pretty shallow to me.

 

I don't really think she is that shallow. It's just another preference about a physical trait. Individuals of both sexes have their preferences for all kinds of physical traits in the opposite gender - height, build, race, skin colour, hair colour, short hair/long hair, breast size, dick size, circumcised/uncircumcised, etc. For example, some guys like women with huge breasts, while other guys don't care about how big they are. How is zengirl anymore shallow than a guy who likes women with big tits? All preferences over physical traits are pretty shallow. Preference for cut or uncut is no different.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Asics

[TBH]

You can't compare male circumcision to female genital mutilation.

 

I wasnt comparing the procedure, i'm well aware of the differences.

 

My point is the way a cut penis was termed as 'normal'

 

In those few countries where females are circumcised, to the menfolk, that is 'normal' too.

[Jynxx]

You say she's a nice person, I assume you mean she's nice apart from requesting you to amputate a perfectly healthy and natural piece of your body? The girl is a sick human being, OP, and you're crazy for even considering. If she told you she only wanted to date people with one hand, would you consider giving into that aswell?

[zengirl]

I wasnt comparing the procedure, i'm well aware of the differences.

 

My point is the way a cut penis was termed as 'normal'

 

In those few countries where females are circumcised, to the menfolk, that is 'normal' too.

 

I described it as the 'social normal' and it is where I live; if it weren't and I hadn't been socialized in such a way, perhaps I wouldn't think so---but many things we find attractive are socialized. Normal doesn't mean the way it naturally happened. And I said if it were a procedure that normally caused pain (a la female genital mutilation) and hampered sexuality, I would be against it, but the fact is: it doesn't. Doctors in America would not be performing circumcisions if it had similar complications. The complications on an adult. . . I'm sure they are more severe, and I totally understand an adult male not wanting the procedure done.

 

I compared it to ear piercing, but actually I think it's more like braces. That is changing something that is perfectly natural (crooked teeth) for mostly cosmetic purposes (and some minor health effects) and parents decide that for their kids all the time. Only, unlike braces, kids don't even have to remember any pain or hassle from circumcision. If I could've gotten braces over with in infancy, I would've totally picked yes.

 

(FTR, crooked teeth? Not usually a big deal to me.)

Edited August 17, 2011 by zengirl

[BetheButterfly]

I think circumcision should only be done for religious reasons (and in most of the Western world, there is freedom of religion, where parents can bring their children up in the way they believe is true) or for health reasons where doctors recommend it in order to eliminate specific issues the individual has.

 

When Abraham and his household got circumcised long time ago, they did so under God's command:

 

Genesis 17 (NIV)

 

" 9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

 

So, circumcision was a way to set Abraham's descendants apart... and long time ago, there wasn't running water and more effective ways of cleaning one's body, so actually circumcision had health benefits - to keep the penis cleaner.

 

Nowadays men in most areas of the world can wash everyday, so it's not as needed.

 

Muslims and some Christians also get circumcised, but circumcision initially started as a part of a covenant between Abraham's descendants and God. I don't know if it's a requirement in Muslim beliefs, but it is not a requirement in Christian beliefs... though it gained popularity in Christian circles because it did seem to prevent health issues for some men.

 

So, if you are not Jewish or do not have a specific health issue, why get circumcised?

 

If any person has a problem with circumcision, they need to make sure it's not because of being antisemitic. Sad to say, many people in Europe, particularly Germany, Austria, Poland... discriminated against circumcised people, especially against Jews. The Nazis murdered many circumcised people. Though their reason was mainly an irrational, generic hatred against people of a specific ethnic group, circumcision helps "mark" who is from this specific ethnic group.

 

Circumcision doesn't make anyone better or not better... it does have reasons, but those who do so or have their sons do so need to understand the significance/meaning.

 

For adult men, it should only be done for someone with a spiritual reason or health reason.

Edited August 17, 2011 by BetheButterfly

[Pierre]

My dad and and granpa were cut. If I have a son he will be cut. BTW, I am Catholic.

 

I think an uncut penis does not have a classic look.

[Nexus One]

I compared it to ear piercing, but actually I think it's more like braces.

 

You're kidding me right, that doesn't even make sense. *shakes head*

[Jynxx]

I think circumcision should only be done for religious reasons (and in most of the Western world, there is freedom of religion, where parents can bring their children up in the way they believe is true) or for health reasons where doctors recommend it in order to eliminate specific issues the individual has.

You don't see anything wrong with parents amputating a piece of their sons penis because they believe in something and he doesn't have the power to stop them yet? I believe in personal freedom way more than most people, but society should protect those who can't protect themselves. Would you allow parents to tattoo their son if it's for religious reasons?

[sweetjasmine]

And I said if it were a procedure that normally caused pain (a la female genital mutilation)

 

Circumcision does cause pain. That's why a few doctors elect to use a local anesthetic.

 

I compared it to ear piercing, but actually I think it's more like braces.

 

No, it's nothing like braces. Unless the position of the foreskin could cause problems with surrounding body parts. Unless little Jimmy has his penis hanging out for everyone to see every time they look at him.

 

Male circumcision is exactly analogous to shaving off the clitoral hood/prepuce, which is the least invasive/damaging form of female circumcision (Type I).

 

Only, unlike braces, kids don't even have to remember any pain or hassle from circumcision.

 

Why does it matter whether the infant has a distinct memory of the event? Is it acceptable to cause a child pain up until its brain is capable of forming long-term memories?

 

I'm just disturbed by the way we've created a culture where this is totally acceptable and where parents feel pressured to remove a (highly-sensitive) piece of their child's body so he can look like daddy and so some other kids won't make fun of him several years down the road. Just because it's a cultural norm doesn't mean we should bend over backwards trying to rationalize it.

[strawberryshortstack]

I have started seeing an african woman (i'm a white guy). She has a huge problem with the fact that i'm not circumcised.

 

Although i'm NOT circumcised, it looks like I am because I have a very short foreskin. When it's flacid, the head is completely exposed...it doesn't have the "elephant trunk" look. The skin becomes stretched tightly when I have an erection so there is no loose skin on the shaft.

 

Anyway, I have known this woman for a few weeks. After the first time we had sex, we were lying on the bed naked, relaxing. She started playing with my cock and balls, and that's when she realised I actually had a foreskin. She slid her fingernail underneath the foreskin (she has those long acrylic nails), then grabbed it between her thumb and index finger and tugged it gently. She then asked me "aren't you circumcised?" I said no, and I could tell she was kind of disgusted, even though she tried to hide it.

 

The next time we had sex, she asked me to have a shower before we went to the bedroom. She came into the shower with me, rolled my foreskin out so the inside of it was showing and rubbed it to make sure it was clean.

 

Now she is asking me to get circumcised. She says it's because of hygiene issues and because bacteria can get trapped under there. She also says she prefers the look and feel of a circumcised one. We've had sex twice and she doesn't want to do it again until I get circumcised.

 

She's from sierra leone and she's only been in australia for about a month. So i'm probably the first uncircumcised dick she's ever seen or had.

 

What should I do? I would rather leave my dick the way it is, but I don't want to lose this woman. She is a very nice person and very attractive.

 

Leave it as is. There are other women out there who are also very nice and very attractive who will appreciate you the way you are.

[MrNate]

Did you slap her with it yet?

 

 

 

Third time asking this.

[zengirl]

Circumcision does cause pain. That's why a few doctors elect to use a local anesthetic.

 

It doesn't cause continued pain (like female genital mutilation does in every version I've heard) during sex or arousal. And I would hope they'd use anesthetic.

 

No, it's nothing like braces. Unless the position of the foreskin could cause problems with surrounding body parts. Unless little Jimmy has his penis hanging out for everyone to see every time they look at him.

 

Well, to the "hanging out to see" part, if it's someone you're dating, you'll constantly see it. I pointed out that it wasn't something continually visible. And there are minor medical benefits to both; they are mostly cosmetic procedures.

 

Male circumcision is exactly analogous to shaving off the clitoral hood/prepuce, which is the least invasive/damaging form of female circumcision (Type I).

 

Don't they do this when the girls are adolescents without any anesthesia and doesn't it cause sexual pain later in life? (I really don't know. Those are the only descriptions I ever heard.)

 

Why does it matter whether the infant has a distinct memory of the event? Is it acceptable to cause a child pain up until its brain is capable of forming long-term memories?

 

Not an altogether terrible point, but most men do not regret being circumcised. And I've met men who regretted not being circumcised. I'd like to see the %s on both, but I don't imagine they exist readily. I would put my son through physical pain he could never remember in order to save him psychological pain that could haunt him later.

 

You're not wrong about the cultural part. I'm sure I feel the way I do because it's culturally ingrained; I just feel like I'd rather never have sex again than have sex with a man who's uncircumcised. That's just my honest feeling; I'm not saying it's "right" but how can you have sex with someone whose body grosses you out? If it weren't a cultural norm, I imagine I wouldn't notice or care, but this is something that's pretty deeply ingrained for whatever reason.

 

I do hope the OP finds a girl without my (or his current girl's) cultural biases.

Edited August 18, 2011 by zengirl

[Crabbies]

Did you slap her with it yet?

 

Third time asking this.

 

Why are you even considering this? F*ck her... Or rather, don't...

You cut of part of your dick for this girl?

What next? Shaved and waxed for her majesty's pleasure?

I really hope you come back here and laugh at this soon, when you are happy with a girl who wants you as you are...

Don't worry, this one will be fine, she'll find some other poor sod willing to jump through her ridiculous hoops, like a good boy...