The Affair Boat

[StoneCold]

I think for is it is hard to separate the function from the feelings attached to it. As in: often a functional problem will have an emotional meaning (I.e. If we really want the kitchen painted and HE keeps saying that we can't afford it but buys a brand new Bar-B-cue, AND won't even listen to us complain about it because he's embarrassed that he did that. It shows us that our husband may not care about us period. It's such a small thing but if we feel like a guy won't even do the smallest things and figures he can shut us up by buying flowers in a few days, we feel marginalized. It is hard to see that it is "just a small thing, you are making too much of this.").

 

Good christ how do you exist like that?

 

You mean to tell me there is an emotional attachemnt to taking the garbage out? doing the dishes? and asking your husband to lift heavy sh*t???

 

 

Thank god I'm a guy

[StoneCold]

Wow. You totally don't get what she's talking about. It's the refusal of her H to give two shytes about the things she needs done, whether it be garbage out, the kitchen painted, etc. etc. etc. It's his behavior, not the things, although if he doesn't take care of some of the chores, ALL of it falls on her.

 

DOT, I absolutely LOVE your posts.

 

 

OK...so then if we arent clamouring to be your whipping boy for every single little thing....she takes it personally?

[PatFinkle]

No reason why the woman can't take out the trash, is there?

[dreamingoftigers]

Yup, but the funny thing is that we don't expect a high level of perfection or anything, the more regularly a guy shows he cares about us through small stuff, the less we need. We make little mental allowances.

 

Smart guys are pro-active on this stuff: they write a little email saying: just thinking about you, you are so pretty and I miss your smile" when he's at work. You can expect that after 2 or 3 times of that she's gonna get down with him all the time and she won't give a **** if his socks are on the floor.

 

It really is that little stuff. Now if we've been neglected for awhile, we'll test you. We'll see if it is because you like us or if it is because you want something.

 

And, quite frankly, most of you guys are terrible fakers.

 

When we are feeling secure relationally, take out the trash means take out the trash.

 

If we get the general impression that you aren't thinking about us and don't care "take out the trash or have a fight with me" is the perfectly unhealthy but normal standard for a woman to get that attention.

 

To men, it sounds like a threat: pay attention to me or I will strip a puns of flesh off of you. Which if course sounds like a challenge few men would ever want to get into. And most respond by: "I will not pay attention to you in the way that you want because you are trying to control me. Get stuffed, I'll just replace your controlling ass."

 

But yes, most functional life concerns come with

An emotional price tag for a woman. This is part of why some women (myself included) have trouble saying "no" to people.

 

When a man says: " I am not painting the kitchen this weekend, I wanna watch the game."

 

She may hear: "he loves the game more then me, he hasn't done anything for me in weeks."

 

He's thinking: "good thing I can paint the kitchen next weekend cause the big game is on this weekend, hope she doesn't nag me all week about it."

 

If he is the type to write her little notes and stuff that show he cares a little, he is more likely to come home to HER having painted the kitchen and saying: "I did this because I know you've been working so hard lately and I bought nacho ingredients and beer so you and your buddies could watch the game instead of having to paint the damn kitchen."

 

Win-win.

 

BUT both men and women have this little design flaw: they only have eyes that look outward instead of inward. We tend to see what other's aren't doing and not what we lack. Men as well, generally express love through routine actions. So if their partner is keeping the house clean and doing the routine stuff, he thinks she would be happy but the truth is women will often do the base functional stuff no matter how unhappy they are. So a guy doesn't see the warning signs (where we figure that we put up big billboards) when she one day ups and leaves. I think guys often figure that if she just stops bitching and "does" something like take out her own trash instead of expecting him to do it, that she'll be happier. They don't get that the trash has points value attached. And the points on the trash can easily be bigger then the jewelry you got for her birthday. ( you paid attention to her because it was her birthday, functional, see?)

 

My husband has always gotten the most points when he does 2 things instead of one. See the requirement for my birthday is done kind of attention. He made me a beautiful meal. Wonderful, home-cooked, lots of effort. You can see the thought that went into it: tons of points. Well, a few days later he decided I was so happy about it that he actually unexpectedly baked me a triple-layer lemon cake (my favorite) and said that my birthday "didn't have to be over just yet."

 

Truth be told I have spent the summer trying to lose weight so the "function" of the cake was pretty detrimental to my goal (a little thoughtless in a way really LOL). BUT it scored about 10 million major points because of the thought, effort and just overall kindness about it.

 

It doesn't have to be that big. Two little things in a row actually scored bugger then my birthday points: he helped me with some housework that had been piling up, complimented me on how I looked and then when it was time to go to bed (he works earlier then I do) he wanted to stay up later with me just to cuddle. Plus he told me how much he really liked cuddling with me.

 

All of this took maybe half an hour. And I will tell you that my marriage has been a train-wreck with his addicted nightmare crap. But that night just being told I was pretty and how much he liked cuddling with me actually made me start reconsidering some things (because when we get those lovey feelings it makes me a little stupid).

 

When we get neglected for awhile, we get pretty cold and go to the Dark Side. If my husband was willing to semi-regularly stop being "all about him" this marriage would be 50x better.

 

But since I realize that that would require God himself to touch him, I have decided to do the functional things he would want and ignore my own agenda for awhile just to see what happens. He seems to trust me more, we get along better, none of my needs are being met but I don't expect that since he is so self-centered at this point. But the conflict has dropped.

[xxoo]

No reason why the woman can't take out the trash, is there?

 

I don't understand the trash wars, and prefer to take it out myself

 

Still, I get the bigger point....

 

But I don't test. I straight-up confront. I'm needy that way

[dreamingoftigers]

OK...so then if we arent clamouring to be your whipping boy for every single little thing....she takes it personally?

 

No reason why the woman can't take out the trash, is there?

 

Good Lord! Inter-gender translation is hard to do.

 

A woman if she is feeling like her guy regularly considers her and cares about her will take out the neighbourhood's trash if you told her that it meant something to you!

 

Here, I'll explain it in terms you guys might get

 

Think of it like sex: a woman requires a certain dick-size to hit her g-spot. If dude is naturally big, he'll hit it no problem.

 

If he is small she'll still sleep with him and even orgasm and like it BUT she's gonna have to beg him to go deeper, and push harder and she might have to spread her legs more.

 

How this translates: the big dick is like the stuff that gets done for her, all the "points a guy scores." she gets what she wants easily and she's happy.

 

The little dick can make her just as happy BUT she has to make more demands of it.

 

If a guy is like a roll of dimes, she might even get pissed off that he doesn't listen to how focused he has to be to hit her g-spot.

 

DON'T BE A ROLL OF DIMES.

[StoneCold]

Good Lord! Inter-gender translation is hard to do.

 

A woman if she is feeling like her guy regularly considers her and cares about her will take out the neighbourhood's trash if you told her that it meant something to you!

 

Here, I'll explain it in terms you guys might get

 

Think of it like sex: a woman requires a certain dick-size to hit her g-spot. If dude is naturally big, he'll hit it no problem.

 

If he is small she'll still sleep with him and even orgasm and like it BUT she's gonna have to beg him to go deeper, and push harder and she might have to spread her legs more.

 

How this translates: the big dick is like the stuff that gets done for her, all the "points a guy scores." she gets what she wants easily and she's happy.

 

The little dick can make her just as happy BUT she has to make more demands of it.

 

If a guy is like a roll of dimes, she might even get pissed off that he doesn't listen to how focused he has to be to hit her g-spot.

 

DON'T BE A ROLL OF DIMES.

 

 

But you dont have to have a big cock to hit the G spot... the G spot can be accessed by your middle finger. G spot stimulation has more to do with the curvature of your wang; actually the roll of dimes dick may be best for the G spot.

 

I think you are confusing the G spot for the A spot...not THAT you need a big cock for becaue you pretty much have to go right past her cervix to stretch out that little pocket behind it.....if your not quite a mandingo you can scoop her legs up to her chest which will drop the cervix and shorten the canal thus making it easier to hit the A spot.....

 

But this is a proceed with caution because many girls cant stand the A spot stimulation and may get quite pissed at you if you stuff your cock in her twat like you're drilling for oil....

 

 

I deally you want to have an average sized dick. You please most of the women most of the time...you can go deep and you play it shallow...its your call. Being too small is not good for obvious reasons and being too big has its problems too...you could scare or intimidate some girls and you have to go home with blue balls not to mention you have to always be careful when you're ****ing them because if you get to happy you may seriously injure them...

 

 

 

mwahahahahahahahaha

 

 

 

Thread Jack....How that for listening?

 

teehehee

Edited August 18, 2011 by StoneCold

[dreamingoftigers]

The more little things you do for a woman, it is like adding a quarter-inch to your dick.

 

Often men look at this like, "she's such a B to need all that"

Well it is part of our physiological and emotional makeup, just like you guys would like thinnish women. Alright? We won't date the guy that is 525 lbs because it's obvious how things are going to have trouble working out. We don't want a mate that is a walking heart-attack.

 

Just like you guys take it personally if your wife was to balloon to 450 lbs. It isn't what you signed on for. We didn't sign on for a guy that doesn't consider us. When we met you, you were all over us, you were fun, you were secure and you were manly and didn't take too much crap. You were romantic and you ran towards us, not away.

 

Now it's like your asses have ballooned to 400 lbs and you are telling us, "I am gonna be in that damn hot dog eating contest and I don't care what you think. Fat is beautiful, and if you loved me you'd love hot dogs too!" you'd think to yourself what the Hell is this?

 

So we marry the romantic, crazy guys and then they do this funny thing: they figure that the job is done, "we got her, she knows we love her, she loves us, time to start eating hot dogs."

 

You get into the marital routine and stay there. We put up with it for awhile wondering when things will change back. Where'd that guy go? We start not caring as much, start complaining. He tells us to stop complaining. We give up and realize that hot dogs are your one true love and call it a marriage.

 

It can be a years-long process though. If we don't drive you away by complaining or nagging first.

 

What I think is that if you are a roll of dimes guy, you can add that quarter-inch even a half inch every time you do the small stuff, like write her a nite saying that you noticed something small about her that you liked. You can't add much more then that at a time.

 

If you do 2 or 3 little small things, that would be like Mr. Average Guy turning into a kind of Casanova, I think the the dick-effect lasts about a week until it starts to shrink. This means you need to do regular stuff to keep it large, which is exactly what we need.

 

The guy who does the huge thing to show his wife he cares once every few months is kind of like a guy who all of a sudden adds 12 inches to his dick and says, "oh come on, I just added 12 inches to my dick. Most chicks would worship this dick and here you are saying that you don't want it. You're too much. What's the problem? Still not big enough? We haven't done it in 3 months now here it is, all 13 inches of it and you can't "get in the mood."

 

See? His dick is all about him, not what is going to hit her g-spot. In fact her g-spot is probably trying to duck behind her ovaries.

 

Then there are the other guys who's dicks have been missing so long that they are inverted. They will do things for a week or so to get their wives attention until it grows (yes just like Pinocchio's nose) to be about an inch and a half pointed outward.

 

Then he complains that wifey is still to demanding. She complains that it won't penetrate her yet. So he gives up, wife is unpleaseable "he tried."

 

If he would have put in a bit more effort, his dick could give her that g-spot orgasm. But no, he gave up and blamed it on her. It isn't her fault that her g-spot is more then two inches in.

 

You can also do too much for a woman a get too big. Not good.

 

So guys, considering the analogy, you get to choose how big your dicks are.

 

How are we doing so far?

[dreamingoftigers]

For the sake of the analogy, try walking around with a roll of dimes and see how well that works out.

[xxoo]

Another analogy....like sex:

 

If your woman has plenty of sex with you, and it is generally fun, and she's very into it, and you feel like you are pleasing her....you probably won't care too much about the tiny details.

 

But if she is rationing out the sex, and is never in the mood, and treats it like a chore, but "gives" it to you a couple times a week....you might be like a lot of guys here, keeping track of how often each person initiated, how often each person performed each act, how often sex fell on an important holiday, and etc.

 

But we can feel similarly about stuff outside the bedroom Honestly, I bet you guys sometimes do, too!

[dreamingoftigers]

I was trying to explain it in stereotypical make terms. The guys out here are pretty obsessed with size. I don't think most of us are.

 

As well, by comparing not maintaining other forms of non-sexual affection to dick shrinkage, I figured it might scare the Hell out of some poster lurking who hasn't been the nicest to his girlfriend.

[StoneCold]

Wait a minute... I just noticed something here..

 

you're turning this around...its nice you are giving the wierd female insight but you are also positioning it as if its up to the guy to fix everything.

 

Here.. Dave sums it up wel..

l

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA&feature=related

Edited August 18, 2011 by StoneCold

[freestyle]

The more little things you do for a woman, it is like adding a quarter-inch to your dick.

 

Often men look at this like, "she's such a B to need all that"

Well it is part of our physiological and emotional makeup, just like you guys would like thinnish women. Alright? We won't date the guy that is 525 lbs because it's obvious how things are going to have trouble working out. We don't want a mate that is a walking heart-attack.

 

Just like you guys take it personally if your wife was to balloon to 450 lbs. It isn't what you signed on for. We didn't sign on for a guy that doesn't consider us. When we met you, you were all over us, you were fun, you were secure and you were manly and didn't take too much crap. You were romantic and you ran towards us, not away.

 

Now it's like your asses have ballooned to 400 lbs and you are telling us, "I am gonna be in that damn hot dog eating contest and I don't care what you think. Fat is beautiful, and if you loved me you'd love hot dogs too!" you'd think to yourself what the Hell is this?

 

So we marry the romantic, crazy guys and then they do this funny thing: they figure that the job is done, "we got her, she knows we love her, she loves us, time to start eating hot dogs."

 

You get into the marital routine and stay there.

 

 

 

 

 

Great post & insight, DOT!!

 

I've heard another analogy that kinda sums up the point you're making here---

(and it applies to BOTH genders).......

 

"Once you've caught the bus, you don't have to run anymore..............."

 

 

In my experience, that's one of the biggest marriage/relationship killers there is--that mentality of no longer making the effort---and figuring you can just rest on your laurels, once you've landed your mate.

 

It almost comes across as a bait & switch, in some situations..........

[StoneCold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA&feature=related

 

I forgot to add...Dave really says it at 7:23

[Woggle]

You can flip it around and say that men are more likely to go the extra mile when they don't feel like a woman is throwing a fuss over every little thing. When women get in that mode men just want to run. Men are much more likely to go that extra mile and put in that extra effort when we don't feel like we have an emotional knife to our throat.

[xxoo]

It's absolutely a two-way street.

 

As women, naturally we give our point of view But it is equally important for wives to understand their partner's pov.

 

Understanding goes a long way in softening the heart, ime.

[Turtles]

Think that may be when the affair boat sails in... Either or both of the partners have given up on understanding the other and being understood so one of them looks elsewhere either for an emotional crutch or a way to self destruct the marriage.

 

Certainly it's not the moral high road.

[PatFinkle]

All a man really needs to do is:

 

1) pay the rent/mortgage

2) keep the fridge filled with groceries

3) keep his woman satisfied in bed

 

 

And if he fulfills 3), 1), 2) and everything else is completely optional.

[John Michael Kane]

K, sometimes I really envy your black and white vision of things. It must be so convenient.

 

Thank you, but this situation has nothing to do with "black and white."

 

A woman is currently being cheated on so whatever marital issues going on is canceled out like an algebra problem.

[John Michael Kane]

I love your "thoguht process....."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

or lack there of

 

My "thought process" is pretty clear. Is yours? You're cheating on your wife. What should be done about that?

[John Michael Kane]

You can flip it around and say that men are more likely to go the extra mile when they don't feel like a woman is throwing a fuss over every little thing. When women get in that mode men just want to run. Men are much more likely to go that extra mile and put in that extra effort when we don't feel like we have an emotional knife to our throat.

 

Not all men will run. Some, like me, will actually shut all of that down.

[dreamingoftigers]

Wait a minute... I just noticed something here..

 

you're turning this around...its nice you are giving the wierd female insight but you are also positioning it as if its up to the guy to fix everything.

 

Here.. Dave sums it up wel..

l

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA&feature=related

 

Hold on, hold on. The guy doesn't have to do all the fixing. Totally, totally not.

 

(I haven't watched the link yet, it's kid time so I'll try to be brief).

 

In my case specifically, I have realized that completely NOT getting my needs met is not a good excuse to not act in the best interests of the marriage. Truly from the bottom of my heart I know that I am preparing to walk separately for at least a little bit because both my husband and myself have foundational issues that need fixing and we can't do that dysfunctionally entwined to each other.

 

I deeply suspect based on track record that he will not deal with his issues or work to repair them so the separation will be permanent, ending in divorce after a period of healing.

 

That being said, I want to be a better, more functional person in a relationship regardless and that does not depend on my spouse's choices.

 

Since I am more aware of his functional and emotional needs, I can for a period overlook my needs to bridge and meet his. Most of my needs have to do with stress-management anyways (as do most people's relational needs).

 

I HAVE to learn to manage stress better both on my own and in a relationship. I cannot in my case expect my husband to meet barely any of my emotional needs at all (narcissism).

 

I truly believe it is up to both spouses to fix their relational understanding and act accordingly.

 

I spoke about the guy's role because, well, the people who are in The Affair Boat that responded to this thread are guys. I tried to cover off our own reactivity as well because it goes both ways.

 

Oftentimes women will let the functional things drop (I.e. Clean house, waistlines) because they figure that the guy loves them so it's "in the bag do to speak." and we get downright upset if a guy thinks of leaving because we overspend or are messy or what have you. This is because "you are supposed to love me for me, not my weight, bank statements etc.)

 

Women don't get that guys need the functional stuff taken care of to feel connected.

 

In my case I take better care of the house, try to make sure that I am not just complaining, give him space and watch out for other such triggery-buttons. What I have found is that he actually IS much more I interested in connecting with me. In fact, he has become much more affectionate and supportive. It's about a 20% improvement over a month or so.

 

He tests me a little but after each little test, he settles into trusting me more.

(by test I just mean subconsciously, and it's not like he just foes things to yank my chain or anything, just I don't know, we all kind of test each other's patience). IT SOUNDS WORSE THEN IT IS.

 

Women can fix things up too, and should in fact. It just takes more patience on both's behalf and I think that waiting around for the other person to make the first move is a great way to lose a marriage.

 

I wait for no man

[dreamingoftigers]

It IS up to the guy to fix HIS part. Who else is suppose to do it? And IF a guy has a problem with his woman of which she is unaware, he should tell her, and it is up to HER to fix HER part of the problem.

 

BINGO!

 

Another thing, accept that human beings are kind of emotionally dense, all of us! It may take more then 3 tries. It may take a couple actual written notes. Not nags, jeez. Not nags. I think partners should pull back a bit.

 

As well it is up to us to enforce our boundaries so that our spouse knows we mean business, if we say one thing and do another, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

[dreamingoftigers]

You can flip it around and say that men are more likely to go the extra mile when they don't feel like a woman is throwing a fuss over every little thing. When women get in that mode men just want to run. Men are much more likely to go that extra mile and put in that extra effort when we don't feel like we have an emotional knife to our throat.

 

That is precisely the other side of the equation.

 

I will say that the stress my partner has caused me has had me on emotional overload and unfortunately we cannot compartmentalize as well as men (brain biology).

 

I know that if you are a high-stress woman that it is very difficult to raise your oxytocin levels back to normal to self-soothe, but no man can take full responsibility for that. Period.

 

John Gray has a list of 100 different ways that women can raise their own oxytocin levels when stressed.

 

Very important.

 

By the way guys, the number and quality of friends a woman has affects her oxytocin levels.

 

The better the friendships and the more she is connected with others, the better her stress levels tend to be. When women isolated themselves, things are much worse. If the relationship they are in starts to sour, often a woman will isolate herself and try to focus more energy on the relationship.

 

Considering she is already stressed and now focusing more on her man, what do you think will happen next?

[dreamingoftigers]

Not all men will run. Some, like me, will actually shut all of that down.

 

Shutting down is about the same thing as running. There are plenty of ways that men go into "avoid the woman that is going crazy" mode.