Question for Christians

[KR10N]

FTR, I have nothing against any religion.

 

I've had numerous discussions w/ friends, some Atheists, Agnostics (like myself), Buddhists, Christians, etc. Everything else is up for friendly debate.

Recently, a discussion came up w/ an old acquaintance which turned out to be a 'holier than thou' attitude & the ultimate decision that "I'm going to hell". This friend criticised me for my thoughts about sex & marriage. However, this old acquaintance was certain pre-marital sex was bad. Oddly enough she got pregnant & had a shotgun wedding & is often the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. Why is it that certain Christians think they have the right to tell people how to live when they're better off listening to their own advice? Does living in the south affect the way these people think?

[bee55]

The god tell us on holly Qur'an :-

 

Do you enjoined others to do what is good and forget your own selves, while you read the book ? Will you not then understand ?

[Rooster_DAR]

FTR, I have nothing against any religion.

 

I've had numerous discussions w/ friends, some Atheists, Agnostics (like myself), Buddhists, Christians, etc. Everything else is up for friendly debate.

Recently, a discussion came up w/ an old acquaintance which turned out to be a 'holier than thou' attitude & the ultimate decision that "I'm going to hell". This friend criticised me for my thoughts about sex & marriage. However, this old acquaintance was certain pre-marital sex was bad. Oddly enough she got pregnant & had a shotgun wedding & is often the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. Why is it that certain Christians think they have the right to tell people how to live when they're better off listening to their own advice? Does living in the south affect the way these people think?

 

You may find as you go through life, that Christians (as well as others) can be some of the worst people on earth. Christianity as well as Muslim and other religions were born out of violence and control. Don't worry..you're not going to hell, there is no hell. Premarital sex is (or sex in general) is a natural instinct shared among nearly every living species, therefore it's only modern theist culture that is saying it's bad. Cheers!

[KR10N]

The god tell us on holly Qur'an :-

 

Do you enjoined others to do what is good and forget your own selves, while you read the book ? Will you not then understand ?

I'm not sure what that means, but okay.

 

You may find as you go through life, that Christians (as well as others) can be some of the worst people on earth. Christianity as well as Muslim and other religions were born out of violence and control. Don't worry..you're not going to hell, there is no hell. Premarital sex is (or sex in general) is a natural instinct shared among nearly every living species, therefore it's only modern theist culture that is saying it's bad. Cheers!

I don't feel that Christians are the worst people, but there are certainly a few who open their mouth when they need to keep it shut. This is exactly what my acquaintance does. I have a good friend who is a Buddhist & she basically jumped his s*** for that. Then she started talking about God & how my friend was going to hell for being a Buddhist. My friend has studied religion so he was well prepared for her nonsensical rants.

 

Thanks for the post anyway & I appreciate your honesty. I don't want to assume but I'm going to go out on a limb & say you're an atheist?

[Rooster_DAR]

I don't feel that Christians are the worst people

 

Re-Iterate....Some, not all Christians. Some of my best friends are Christians and they are great people.

 

Atheist would probably best describe me......

[KR10N]

Re-Iterate....Some, not all Christians. Some of my best friends are Christians and they are great people.

 

Atheist would probably best describe me......

My bad.

[visualbasicide]

FTR, I have nothing against any religion.

 

I've had numerous discussions w/ friends, some Atheists, Agnostics (like myself), Buddhists, Christians, etc. Everything else is up for friendly debate.

Recently, a discussion came up w/ an old acquaintance which turned out to be a 'holier than thou' attitude & the ultimate decision that "I'm going to hell". This friend criticised me for my thoughts about sex & marriage. However, this old acquaintance was certain pre-marital sex was bad. Oddly enough she got pregnant & had a shotgun wedding & is often the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. Why is it that certain Christians think they have the right to tell people how to live when they're better off listening to their own advice? Does living in the south affect the way these people think?

 

Christianity and hypocrisy is not the same thing, don't let these type of people delude you. The real deal is (or should be) that sin is sin, if you are guilty of one you are still in the dog house. Doesn't mean everyone is going to hell, alternatively doesn't mean everyone is saved by default either. Real christians will tell you that no "said" behavior isn't acceptable but also it isn't our place to judge anyone. Doesn't mean we condone or agree what others do, but as far as saying someone will or wont go to hell is lunacy. We will ALL be judged together based on our behavior, coupled with the mercy and grace of the God we believe in, which is the ultimate deciding factor. Speculation on anything outside of this is someone that should go read the definition of humility.

 

ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Period, you, me, believers, non believers, the whole human race. Anyone telling you anything different is probably missing the whole concept. I don't know if it's insecurities or what that lead people to behave like this.

 

I can't say that the few ruin it for the majority or if it's really the other way around but my take on this is (hopefully) clearly shown.

[KR10N]

Christianity and hypocrisy is not the same thing, don't let these type of people delude you. The real deal is (or should be) that sin is sin, if you are guilty of one you are still in the dog house. Doesn't mean everyone is going to hell, alternatively doesn't mean everyone is saved by default either. Real christians will tell you that no "said" behavior isn't acceptable but also it isn't our place to judge anyone. Doesn't mean we condone or agree what others do, but as far as saying someone will or wont go to hell is lunacy. We will ALL be judged together based on our behavior, coupled with the mercy and grace of the God we believe in, which is the ultimate deciding factor. Speculation on anything outside of this is someone that should go read the definition of humility.

 

ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Period, you, me, believers, non believers, the whole human race. Anyone telling you anything different is probably missing the whole concept. I don't know if it's insecurities or what that lead people to behave like this.

 

I can't say that the few ruin it for the majority or if it's really the other way around but my take on this is (hopefully) clearly shown.

It would be nice to talk to a real Christian for a change. All the people in the "bible belt" are total hypocrites.

[quankanne]

unfortunately, there's a lot more truth than not to what you're saying, KR ... I think that for some believers, you're "supposed" to be loudly proclaiming the Gospel with your mouth and your behavior, then when their behavior contradicts their belief, they just get baptized all over again because Jesus loves all the little sinners, so it's all worked out in the end.

 

St. Francis says it best: Preach the Gospel ... use words if you must

[D-Lish]

It would be nice to talk to a real Christian for a change. All the people in the "bible belt" are total hypocrites.

 

I've met a lot of "people" in general that are hypcrites- but I have to admit that some of the worst of them have been Christians.

 

I grew up having to go to church and what turned me off was all the hypocrisy and judgement in my mom's church. People were having affairs with one another, people talked behind others backs, and the Minister himself left his wife because he had an affair with the organist. It really turned me off, and the whole environment never seemed "right".

 

I myself got kicked out of Sunday school for "asking too many questions"- which apparantly made me a nuisance.

 

I've been told by relatives that I am going to hell for being an atheist, I've been told by strangers, and a close friend of mine said that if you took 100 people, half Atheist/Agnostic- and the other half Christian- that the Christian side would be the ones that have lived a more moral life. Really? Most of the Atheists I surround myself with are good people that live their lives according to a moral code that isn't coming from any other place than their desire to be a good person just for the sake of being a good person.

 

On the other hand- I've met some non-judgemental Christians along the way. A girl that works for me is a wonderful girl- very religious, but not judgemental in the least bit. She manages one of my stores for me, and once a very young employee of hers got pregnant and confided in her that she wanted an abortion, had no one to talk to, was scared, her bf had left her... She took her to a clinic to see a counsellor to explore her options- and when the girl decided she wanted to have an abotion, she took her, and looked after her afterward. She told me afterward- "I don't judge people. She was in trouble, she needed help, and even though it's against something I believe in, I couldn't turn my back on her". She's one of the kindest, most generous people I know.

 

There are always two sides to the coin.

[Tayla]

D'Lish,remarkable when we come of age to actually challenge and question that which is TOSSED at us as if its NEVER to be analyzed or speculated as true or not. I moved away from my one religion, explored others and came back to christianity in a new way...never allowing a bible thumper to think for me.

 

As a wise person said, Church IS FOR SINNERS...and sinners are there because they sin...daily.

 

I too have a friend who is atheist to the core. ANd yes its true, he is more abiding and courteous overall about people and circumstances. He has NOT been blessed with the FEAR of CONDEMNATION if he does wrong according to a Book. He knows right from wrong...lives a respectable life and every so often amazes me with his level of tolerance for differences when a relgious zealot tries to "SAVE" him. Rather comical actually. His wit and charm often disarm the "preacherman" and they leave actually scratching their heads wondering if they too should question things written in a book.

 

I do not beleive in heaven or heck after I pass on...

[D-Lish]

D'Lish,remarkable when we come of age to actually challenge and question that which is TOSSED at us as if its NEVER to be analyzed or speculated as true or not. I moved away from my one religion, explored others and came back to christianity in a new way...never allowing a bible thumper to think for me.

 

As a wise person said, Church IS FOR SINNERS...and sinners are there because they sin...daily.

 

I too have a friend who is atheist to the core. ANd yes its true, he is more abiding and courteous overall about people and circumstances. He has NOT been blessed with the FEAR of CONDEMNATION if he does wrong according to a Book. He knows right from wrong...lives a respectable life and every so often amazes me with his level of tolerance for differences when a relgious zealot tries to "SAVE" him. Rather comical actually. His wit and charm often disarm the "preacherman" and they leave actually scratching their heads wondering if they too should question things written in a book.

 

I do not beleive in heaven or heck after I pass on...

 

I can only tell you that as an Atheist, I live my life real- If someone needs help, I'll be the first to jump to it without judgement.

 

Somehow, that still means I am going to "hell" by some standards.

 

THAT bothers me to no end.

 

I am a Religiuos Studies major- so I have read the Bible from cover to cover- along with studying other religions along the way.

 

You know what restores my faith in the "good" religious people? It's my co-worker that once said to me in a debate about religion "D-Lish, the God I know would never deny a "good" person at the gates of Heaven simply because they didn't/don't believe in him".

[Teknoe]

Why is it that certain Christians think they have the right to tell people how to live when they're better off listening to their own advice?

 

 

Because Christians are humans. And all humans are flawed. Some humans are more flawed than others. Just like how, some Christians are "worse" than other Christians, i.e. hypocritical, holier-than-thou attitude, etc.

 

Christians are called to love others, whether others = believer or not. If someone is not acting out of love, please don't let that be your image of the faith as a whole. It takes one bad apple or one bad experience to turn a person off on something, but there's a lot of good Christians out there.

[visualbasicide]

the God I know would never deny a "good" person at the gates of Heaven simply because they didn't/don't believe in him".

 

Exactly where I was going to go with my reply. For the curious, read the book of romans Romans Chapter 2 passages 12-23. Pretty much says the exact same thing. The core of that being

 

"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."

 

I got the above from the english standard version, it's a literal translation rather than an interpreted view or metaphor as are found in various others.

 

The law being the word of God written in the bible, Gentiles being anyone other than the original of god's chosen, hence, us, though in today's society of informational exchange would include non believers and agnostic people. I could go on but I'd rather stay on topic than write an essay.

[Lobouspo]

I am a Christian, and I can tell you there is nothing worse than Christians who preach to others about the spec in their eye but do nothing about the wooden block in their own. Christ was most harsh on the Pharissees in the Gospels because of shameless hypocristy like you mentioned. While I am not ashamed of my faith, I am weak and have shortcomings, and therefore do not judge others.

[SmellOfRain]

FTR, I have nothing against any religion.

 

I've had numerous discussions w/ friends, some Atheists, Agnostics (like myself), Buddhists, Christians, etc. Everything else is up for friendly debate.

Recently, a discussion came up w/ an old acquaintance which turned out to be a 'holier than thou' attitude & the ultimate decision that "I'm going to hell". This friend criticised me for my thoughts about sex & marriage. However, this old acquaintance was certain pre-marital sex was bad. Oddly enough she got pregnant & had a shotgun wedding & is often the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. Why is it that certain Christians think they have the right to tell people how to live when they're better off listening to their own advice? Does living in the south affect the way these people think?

 

Hi KR10N

 

I'm a Christian and yes I agree as in anything there are those who say one thing and do another.

 

Jesus therefore is my compass so to speak ~ He is not a hypocrite and His teachings are easy to understand and btw they never change. Modern society might change but His words don't. I read His word and with His help do what He wants me to do ~ the focus is on Him ~ not on other people. People will let us down but He never will.

 

We will all give an account to God for our actions......you will not give an account to me or your friend and I will not give an account to you ~ God is the ONLY one to whom we will give an account.

 

The Bible is very clear about sex before marriage as it's also very clear about not telling lies, stealing, coveting etc..... we each have to choose if we will follow what God says or not ~ the question really is, will I continue to follow Jesus even if everyone around me doesn't?

[Breezy Trousers]

FTR, I have nothing against any religion.

 

I've had numerous discussions w/ friends, some Atheists, Agnostics (like myself), Buddhists, Christians, etc. Everything else is up for friendly debate.

Recently, a discussion came up w/ an old acquaintance which turned out to be a 'holier than thou' attitude & the ultimate decision that "I'm going to hell". This friend criticised me for my thoughts about sex & marriage. However, this old acquaintance was certain pre-marital sex was bad. Oddly enough she got pregnant & had a shotgun wedding & is often the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. Why is it that certain Christians think they have the right to tell people how to live when they're better off listening to their own advice? Does living in the south affect the way these people think?

 

Humans are deeply conflicted. Humans make up churches. Therein lies the problem.

 

To be human is to judge. That's what we all do on this planet. Christians don't have a monopoly on it!

 

To be human is to be locked in a consciousness which feels separate from one another, from God and often even from our true self (i.e., worshipping society's approval, not God).

 

This profound sense of separation is a complete illusion --- we are NEVER separate -- but it feels real to all of us 99.9 percent of the time. It's a mass hallucination, if you will --- "seeing through a glass darkly" or Plato's cave parable...

 

Judgment is what allows this illusion of separation to stay alive and essentially block God out. If you can attack someone, you are no longer connected to him/her. Unfortunately, when you attack someone, you are also no longer connected to yourself -- you are actually attacking yourself because we are all ONE in God. You are increasing your own sense of guilt and pain, but think, by projecting it out onto another, you are getting rid of it. So you feel MORE separate. And the hellish cycle continues. It's the insanity of humanity. It's our normal. But it's insane because, truly, there is no separation. This is why Jesus cautioned against it. But humans, including me, still love to bang their heads repeatedly against the wall and wonder why they hurt.

 

Jesus' ministry was not intended to create a church but to teach us how to have a direct relationship with God. One does not necessarily lead to the other. There's a difference between religion and spirituality. I think a good definition of the two is: "Religion is for people afraid of hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been in hell.".

 

Some people enjoy socializing at church, singing Kumbaya while holding hands, the bells & smells, and feeling part of a larger religious tribal identity/community -- but have absolutely no interest in transforming their own consciousness .(Remember how the BTK Killer was the deacon in his church and John Wayne Gacy regularly took holy communion? ... I guess you could interpret them as HUGE hypocrites ... or as two desolate souls seeking solace... Who knows?)

 

Others can meditate and pray each day, study spiritual texts, and seek self awareness and self correction, but have absolutely no interest in going to church.

 

Others can happily do both.

 

It depends on where that person's consciousness is. It's not the fault of the religion and, lately, I question whether it's really the fault of the person. It is what it is.

 

So religion is just a neutral tool. There are many tools leading us to God. Love will meet us in whatever form we need. It's humans who muck things up. We're profoundly, inexplicably loved anyway.

 

As Anthony DeMello once said: "The Bible, the Church, the Rosary, the Torah, etc., are just a finger pointing to the moon (God). The problem is that most people end up sucking on the finger and miss the Point."

 

Until we each heal our sense of separation from each other and God, that's inevitable, I guess. The more separate and disconnected ("lost") we are, the more obvious the disconnect will be between our words and our actions. But we all do it to varying degrees. It's just easier to see it in other people.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[D-Lish]

I think what bothers me the most is when religious people question the ability of an Atheist to abide to a moral code. It's assuming that because we don't have a Doctrine to keep us in line that we're naturally inclined to be corrupt and follow a path of unbridled immoral behaviour.

 

People seem to forget that the conscience is a powerful mechanism for keeping people in line. I know right from wrong, I don't need to consult a guide book when I'm already equipt with a built in moral compass.

 

It's not like we Atheists go around kicking puppies because we don't have a Jesus in our life to tell us it's not okay...

[Surfer Girl]

I searched many different sermons to hear what would help me... it was always the same.... I don't have any desire to go to church anymore as the same message... is always about certain rules.... I find within myself... nature, loving ones self and being happy with yourself projects more of yourself than one that condones you for not living up to the standards... Self love and being aware of all that surrounds you.. is me recognizing a higher power without all the rules.

[Symetrical-Siren]

they prefer to look at YOU instead.

 

From what I've seen of human behavior, lots of people find it is easier and just feels better to look at someone else and judge their actions and life style, than to face the pain of their own. Looking in the mirror at your own short comings simply does not feel good. Christians are not the only ones that do that, but they just use their religion as an excuse to get in your business.

 

The thing about Christians, they try to pass it off as genuine "concern". Like they are there to help and support you; but the minute they catch wind of your business, they immediately judge and condemn you if your beliefs do not fall in line with theirs.

 

I have only a handful of Christian friends that are cool. They are the one's that don't argue, because they have read the scriptures, and know much of what is said in the Bible conflicts with the attitudes and Christian traditions today. Down right hypocrite.

 

Easter and Christ-mass a.k.a. Christmas are perfect examples. Pagan religions the Christians tried to "Christ-wash" in order to make it right. Back then, the Church knew the pagans were the majority and could NOT be controlled. There was no way they would be able to stop them from the traditions they had done for generations. So, the pagans were allowed to continue celebrating their pagan holidays....only it was NOW in Jesus name. Christ-washed makes it okay. Christ-washing those traditions doesn't change the fact that they ARE pagan traditions, or that pagans are condemned by Christians that carry on pagan traditions (which in of itself is quite laughable, yet sad at the same time)

 

If you sheer a wolf and a sheep, and drape the wool over the wolf.....that does NOT transform the wolf into a sheep.

 

Yet, these same people that are so quick to burn a "witch" or any pagan at the stake or condemn them to hell....will IGNORANTLY and happily put up the corpse of a tree in the corner of their home and decorate it. The Christmas tree is pagan, the wreathe is pagan, mistle toe......Easter bunny, chicks, and eggs.....all pagan. And any Christian with COMMON SENSE knows none of the said list of pagan items/symbols has anything remotely to do with Christ.

 

They are blind sheep that follow traditions that their lazy behinds don't even care to educated themselves about and look up the origins. Now that we have the world wide web, with good ol Wikipedia and other resources....there is no excuse for that kind of laziness. Even if you don't have time to go to the library now and do your own research, you can go online now and educate yourself.

 

Or simply open up a bible. There's no Easter Bunny/Chicks in the Bible. No dead decorated tree corpse, wreathe, or mistetoe in the scriptures.

 

I was raised in a Christian household. I believe that Christ existed; I believe in his teachings, and that he was a saint. However, I believe most Christians to be the true anti-Christs.....mainly because the entire point of calling yourself a "Christ"ian, is to be following in the footsteps of Christ.

 

How many Christians that YOU know, do that ?

 

Let me tell you something about Christ that IS in the Bible. When he was arrested and one of the arresting soldier's ear was cut off....Jesus healed the arresting soldier. // Jesus' friend Mary was a prostitute....Christ neither condemned Mary NOR Judas even though Judas betrayed him // When Jesus was crucified, there was another man being crucified along side of him, and Jesus did not condemn him. He told the man that he would be with him in Paradise.

 

Now, someone SHOW ME a Christian that does what Christ did. Christ was a humble man, not holier than thou.

 

The same Christians that are running around holier than thou....how much you wanna bet they are putting up those pagan trees and decorations in their homes. Going shopping for material things that have absolutely nothing to do with Christ.

 

Did Jesus not[/u] clear out the temple in Jerusalem of all the merchants in the scriptures ? So if Jesus did THAT, what would make one believe that Jesus would approve of shopping for a pagan holiday that was "Christ"-washed, and has absolutely nothing to do with him ? Common sense would tell me, since he didn't approve of the merchants selling in a HOLY place back at that time, then he would not approve of the materialistic holiday that Christians celebrate today (which by the way, the original holiday, which was Christ-washed - was based on rape, fornication, debauchery, the christian loved homosexuality.....and yeah, I forgot....they gave gifts too - that's where the whole Christmas gift exchange came from).

[Lostinlife4now]

I am a Catholic girl, have been all my life, and I can honestly say I have broken some of God's commandments...But I was always taught since I am a flawed human and the imperfect of humans...God will forgive me at the Gates..I do have remorse and try to do good each day...God knows that I am trying to be good, He is a Benevolent God. I do not judge for I don't walk in the other persons' shoes.

 

When my young son passed away very unexpectedly my Faith was what kicked in and saved my life. I had the most wonderful support of people around me, they took care of me and my family, and still to this day the Church still takes care of me. They are all Catholics, 90% of them anyway, and without these wonderful people, I wouldn't be sitting at this computer today....Not too sure where I am going with the Catholic thing, but it sure saved my life.

 

I have never really looked at any other religion out there, God is God, you can call Him whatever name you want....There is only One.

[Hediru]

Nothing irritates me more than a "Christian" who's not really one. They give the rest of us such a bad rap. Yes, things like premarital or extramarital sex, stealing, and the like are wrong. Yes, anyone who has ever committed any sin, ever done any little thing wrong in their entire lives (and that's all of us) deserves to go to hell. But just because we deserve it doesn't mean that that's where we will all end up. Jesus died on the cross, IN OUR PLACE. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. And by death in this regard, it means hell. All that we need to do is accept Jesus and recognize that when he died, he died for US. That is the only way into heaven. Now does that mean that we can still live as we please? Not exactly, because God desires us to live good and moral lives, and when you've accepted Jesus, you can't help but want to please God. But just because you commit sin X doesn't condemn you to hell either.

 

Sorry all. Didn't mean to go so long, but this is a passionate thing for me. You all want to meet a real Christian... Hi! Nice to meet you! Ask anything you want, and I'll try not to go on so long next time.