How To Handle An FWB

[Ruby Slippers]

As to why Mr Right is so hard to find:

 

Mr. Right has figured out that he does not need to be Mr. Right to get women to put out.

Well, like I said, many, many women, including most of my friends, were "putting out" casually long before I ever was. I've been trying the old-fashioned approach my whole life -- and I have yet to find a guy I can have a lasting relationship with.

 

So either the old-fashioned approach no longer works, I just don't have what it takes to attract a great guy, or something else.

 

Whatever it is, I know that I'm a lot happier having some fun, sexy interaction with a man than nothing at all.

 

And this isn't getting in my way of continuing to meet relationship prospects. In fact, it gives me a major boost, makes me feel sexy and on, and motivates me to meet a long-term guy even more.

 

After having sex with him last night, I was in a better mood than I've been in weeks. The incredible mood-boosting power of great sex is undeniable. We parted on positive terms, and I'm sure the next time I see him will be great, too. As long as neither of us tries to make this out to be something it's not, I think it'll be good for both of us.

[MrNate]

I've discovered from past experience that men will say pretty much anything to get you to keep sleeping with them. It seems like that's what this guy is doing. Men say a lot of things they don't mean, so don't take what he says to mean that he wants to get serious with you.

 

This is correct. Humans will often take the path of least resistance to get their desires met.

[Woggle]

I don't have an issue with FWB type of relationships but to me they never seem to work out very well in the long term. For some brief fun they are great but try to do it for too long and somebody ends up getting hurt. The one time I tried it it did not go well.

[zengirl]

But Pierre, if Mr. Right is being Mr. Right just to get women to put out. . . he's not actually Mr. Right at all and never was.

 

I'm not Ruby's age, though I have friends who are close (the upper level of the age range of my friends), so I cannot say why she sees such patterns in her age/generation. I will say, the girls I know who can't find relationships (consistently; everyone is single sometimes!), it has nothing to do with where guys can and can't get sex---it has to do with the girl not being in the right mindset/place to attract that person to them or ready for that person or clear on what they're hoping to find, etc. And I've many times seen that all click in and BOOM! the girl gets an awesome relationship. Just happened to my roommate, who'd had a four-year struggle, this year. And it was all about her fixing her mind (not that it was broken---she was awesome---but she had some beliefs and things that were holding her back).

 

And one such kind of negative belief is the belief that men are after sex and treating sex anything like a commodity. There are plenty of men who want relationships, and it's not just about sex. They want it all---everything a relationship entails. They are out there, they are not rare, and those are the guys to focus on if that's what you want. But if you want to have fun, go have fun. . . that's fine too. It's another myth that all women always want relationships. Sometimes they want something casual as well.

 

(FTR, I kind of find Ruby's plan odd, since she wants a relationship and instead has a FWB, but it's her life. It seems like it comes from a place of scarcity as well: 'this is all I can get right now' and that would be sad to me. But I haven't been through her multi-year struggles and it's her path to walk. My roommate -- who I mentioned -- had her own sad path, but it brought her to the guy she'll probably marry. )

 

ETA: I think it's a bad idea to accept less than you want, personally, so I get what you're saying there, Pierre. But I don't know that FWB situations are always about the girl accepting less than she wants. I've seen several that aren't.

 

Basically, it's an exercise in being very zen and in the moment. Accept that whatever you enjoy with this guy is for this moment only. Don't worry or wonder about the future. Just enjoy what you have with him now. And this is a smart way to live all the time.

 

Well, I agree with that being a smart way to live, but a FWB is by nature limited, isn't it? You're not really accepting things as they go---you're saying they can only stay inside a particular box and can never grow into anything more. Saying it can't is putting just as much expectation on it as saying it must. "Restriction is not acceptance; it's just another way we try to avoid," is actually something a Buddhist monk once told me, though in very cobbled English. Just a thought.

 

I think ALL dating is best done with acceptance that the good times are just as good no matter what happens next. I do respect your way of doing things for it's honesty. And I thought this was an interesting point, though.

 

I also think it helps if you are not more into the guy than he is you. In my case, the guy definitely seems to be a little more into me, and this feels a lot safer and more manageable to me.

 

I've heard this a lot. I wonder if then a successful FWB is just an orbiter the girl finds attractive enough to have sex with. Are you familiar with what I mean by orbiter? How would you say that is similar to or different than the dynamics you describe?

Edited August 15, 2011 by zengirl

[somedude81]

]Maybe those men want relationships, but they don't want relationships with ME

[/b]

No, they are out there as well. You just might not be searching in the right places.

. And I guarantee that if I asked this FWB guy, he'd say he DOES want a relationship, he just "isn't ready" or "hasn't found the right girl."

This guy just tells the girls what he thinks they want to hear.

 

BTW, of course he doesn't want a relationship, why should he when he's already got a girl he's sleeping with? Though he's more than happy to add another girl to his stable.

[Pierre]

Zengirl:

 

I cannot have a FWB relationship because I would fall in love with her. If I think I want to have sex with her I already have some emotional investment. If after having sex I do not progress into a relationship then I would stop seeing her. I seem to thrive within a relationship, but that is me.

[somedude81]

Men who want relationships are out there.

 

Not men that I want a relationship with -- at least, I haven't found anyone who fits that description in the past 3 years.

And what does that tell you about yourself?

[Ruby Slippers]

Well, I agree with that being a smart way to live, but a FWB is by nature limited, isn't it? You're not really accepting things as they go---you're saying they can only stay inside a particular box and can never grow into anything more.

I get what you're saying, but another big part of acceptance is accepting limitations. For instance, I have several freelance employees who work for me. I know that one in particular cannot be relied on for certain kinds of work. I have been open to giving him higher-level opportunities, and have tried it several times, but he always fails. So now I accept that, at least for the time being, he can only be trusted to handle assignments at a certain level. Rather than struggling with frustration about what he can't do, I work with him on projects that he can do.

 

It's the same with my FWB. I know that because of his limitations, we would hit a wall in a serious relationship, and that would cause both of us stress and pain. This is the simple truth. So I enjoy and accept what we have, even with its limitations. This feels good, right, and yes, even caring and loving -- to both of us.

 

I've heard this a lot. I wonder if then a successful FWB is just an orbiter the girl finds attractive enough to have sex with. Are you familiar with what I mean by orbiter? How would you say that is similar to or different than the dynamics you describe?

I am familiar with that term, but I do not allow orbiters in my life, as I think it's sad and unhealthy. This is different because everything is out on the table. I'm not trying to get anything from him that I'm not giving -- simply sex, a little bit of physical affection, and fun.

[Ruby Slippers]

And what does that tell you about yourself?

I have considered that my expectations are too high -- but believe me, I have lowered them as far as they can go. I would rather be alone than be with someone I'm not excited about at all. I can't fake anything, so that would just be sad.

 

The fact that I am still not meeting good guys tells me there must be something wrong with me. I'm working on everything I know to work on -- appearance, finances, social life, attitude. My hope is that the better I get, the better prospects I will attract.

 

But I'm not going to be a nun till I get to that point.

[ptp]

I have considered that my expectations are too high -- but believe me, I have lowered them as far as they can go. I would rather be alone than be with someone I'm not excited about at all. I can't fake anything, so that would just be sad.

 

The fact that I am still not meeting good guys tells me there must be something wrong with me. I'm working on everything I know to work on -- appearance, finances, social life, attitude. My hope is that the better I get, the better prospects I will attract.

 

But I'm not going to be a nun till I get to that point.

 

Maybe you need to shift your hunting grounds?

 

Lots women like the Viagra triangle;).

[Pierre]

I have considered that my expectations are too high -- but believe me, I have lowered them as far as they can go. I would rather be alone than be with someone I'm not excited about at all. I can't fake anything, so that would just be sad.

 

The fact that I am still not meeting good guys tells me there must be something wrong with me. I'm working on everything I know to work on -- appearance, finances, social life, attitude. My hope is that the better I get, the better prospects I will attract.

 

But I'm not going to be a nun till I get to that point.

 

 

What if you meet the right guy and he backs away because he does not want to compete with your prior FWBs. IN other words, how will you be able to differentiate a FWB from a true relationship? I think the answer is obvious, but perhaps it is not always obvious to others.

 

Lets say Mr Right is dating you: How will he know he is not just another FWB? I say this because you show some emotional attachment to the FWB.

[Ruby Slippers]

Maybe you need to shift your hunting grounds?

 

Lots women like the Viagra triangle;).

Where is that? Doesn't really sound like somewhere I want to be.

 

What if you meet the right guy and he backs away because he does not want to compete with your prior FWBs. IN other words, how will you be able to differentiate a FWB from a true relationship? I think the answer is obvious, but perhaps it is not always obvious to others.

 

Lets say Mr Right is dating you: How will he know he is not just another FWB? I say this because you show some emotional attachment to the FWB.

If I meet a guy I see potential with, I will immediately halt the FWB interactions and date the relationship prospect in the traditional way, give it a chance with him. My FWB understands that this could happen at any time -- he understands that, of course, he is also free to seek out a relationship elsewhere.

 

I'm sure we would have the STD talk before long, because I always do, and I would be totally honest with him about my sexual history, as I always am. If he did not accept that I'd had an FWB, he would be free to move on.

 

But so far in my life, the men I've had relationships with (beyond teen years) are not hung up on this kind of thing.

[verhrzn]

What if you meet the right guy and he backs away because he does not want to compete with your prior FWBs. IN other words, how will you be able to differentiate a FWB from a true relationship? I think the answer is obvious, but perhaps it is not always obvious to others.

 

Lets say Mr Right is dating you: How will he know he is not just another FWB? I say this because you show some emotional attachment to the FWB.

 

That's easy... he would know he's different because she would be willing to give him a commitment, to be in a relationship, as opposed to what she's doing with the FWB (NOT giving him a commitment.)

 

A guy who backs away because he doesn't want to compete against prior FWBs is similar to a girl who backs away because the guy dated way more attractive women than her in the past... It's all about insecurity. If he can't handle her having a past, he probably can't handle HER.

[snug.bunny]

I do not believe in the concept of "FWB".

 

If a woman wants to have sex for the sake of having sex, then go over to his house, do your thing, and leave.

[Pierre]

That's easy... he would know he's different because she would be willing to give him a commitment, to be in a relationship, as opposed to what she's doing with the FWB (NOT giving him a commitment.)

 

A guy who backs away because he doesn't want to compete against prior FWBs is similar to a girl who backs away because the guy dated way more attractive women than her in the past... It's all about insecurity. If he can't handle her having a past, he probably can't handle HER.

 

 

I am not talking about insecurity regarding the number of prior partners. I am taking about what makes the BF different from a FWB. It goes without saying that the BF has higher hierarchy than the FWB, but how does he know that? What is extra for the BF? Is there anything else other than commitment?

[somedude81]

That's easy... he would know he's different because she would be willing to give him a commitment, to be in a relationship, as opposed to what she's doing with the FWB (NOT giving him a commitment.)

 

A guy who backs away because he doesn't want to compete against prior FWBs is similar to a girl who backs away because the guy dated way more attractive women than her in the past... It's all about insecurity. If he can't handle her having a past, he probably can't handle HER.

I don't think the issue really is having prior FWB. Everybody has a past, though a woman currently being in a FWB is a turn off to guy's who are looking for relationship.

 

Many men don't want to be with a woman who's getting her rocks off with another guy.

 

BTW where are you meeting these guys at? You said you met some at a "nerd convention." Did you go to Comic-Con in San Diego?

[zengirl]

Zengirl:

 

I cannot have a FWB relationship because I would fall in love with her. If I think I want to have sex with her I already have some emotional investment. If after having sex I do not progress into a relationship then I would stop seeing her. I seem to thrive within a relationship, but that is me.

 

Oh, I could never have one either. The idea of sleeping with someone I didn't want to at least have the possibility of building something with wigs me out, but I don't expect everyone always be like me!

 

I get what you're saying, but another big part of acceptance is accepting limitations.

 

True. But I feel like your situation sounds more like imposing a limitation. But, as I said, I don't walk your road. Maybe you really are limited on what you can have relationship-wise.

 

FTR, I totally get (even though I would not do it) the concept of just banging some cute guy because you want to and accepting nothing may come of it (regular casual sex); it's not my cuppa, but I don't find it dysfunctional in the least so long as one is safe. But, maybe it's just the way it sounds all typed out, your explanations always sound so clinical and restrictive, and that's what makes it sound very non-accepting to me. Again, not trying to be a bitch about it---just expressing how I view it in relation to acceptance.

 

For instance, I have several freelance employees who work for me. I know that one in particular cannot be relied on for certain kinds of work. I have been open to giving him higher-level opportunities, and have tried it several times, but he always fails. So now I accept that, at least for the time being, he can only be trusted to handle assignments at a certain level. Rather than struggling with frustration about what he can't do, I work with him on projects that he can do.

 

Totally, and I totally think seeing a broken cup as perfect at being a broken cup as awesome. But FWB the way you describe it sounds like a relationship-substitute, so it's like saying, "Oh, well, better to take what I can get" which is not what acceptance and the everything is perfect at doing what it does "uncarved block" concept is usually about. (Maybe it's like if you dosed it all with cynicism, then that's what you'd get.)

 

I do not believe in the concept of "FWB".

 

If a woman wants to have sex for the sake of having sex, then go over to his house, do your thing, and leave.

 

Yes, that makes WAY more sense to me, and I wonder why it's such a problem for gals (who say they can totally have sex without attachment) to do that---if you like anything but the sex about the guy, you're not having sex without attachment.

 

I also understand -- and have seen some FWB -- where there are two people who never really get fully involved, but just hook up on occasion. Usually they're not looking for relationships, but they genuinely like each other, and that seems to work. It's the whole notion of some complex arrangement that has always striked me as odd, but I don't get uppity if my friends do them. Though I wouldn't want to date a man who had that psychology, personally, and who could compartmentalize that well in terms of affection.

[ptp]

Where is that? Doesn't really sound like somewhere I want to be.

 

 

I was just trying to make a joke that flat on its face

.

 

How long have you lived in Chicago? The Viagra triangle is directly south of Rush and Division in the Gold Cost. It is south of that shushi place Ra have you been there?

 

Believe me you will find plenty of hedge fund managers, lawyers businessmen etc...

 

I walk around there just to oogle and the Bentley dealership

 

Tons of rich eligible single men with tons more women chasing them. (not saying you're looking for Mr. Moneybags )

Edited August 15, 2011 by ptp

[Ruby Slippers]

zengirl, when I read your thoughts about this issue, they always sound SO complicated to me.

 

For me, it's quite simple. I want mutually beneficial and enjoyable sex that is affectionate, fun, passionate, safe, and all that good stuff -- not just some mechanical experience. If I wanted that, I'd use a toy.

 

And I want to have this sex with a guy that I have enough in common with to enjoy his company, and have some fun and stimulating conversation with while we're together.

 

If this guy is open to that and OK with it, great. I will never lie about what I want and where things are going.

 

This is not a substitute for a relationship, but it's something fun, sexy, and pleasurable for us both to enjoy while we are not in relationships.

[Pierre]

To those of you that like the concept of FWB and claim not to have any emotional attachment:

 

In the near future we will have virtual sex. Put on the glasses grab the dummy and you will think you are with the Hollywood star of your preference. The dummy is a dummy, but once you are wired it will feel like real flesh and will act and do whatever you like. These things will be programmed to please even the most demanding folks.

 

For the ladies you could specify penis size and texture. For the gents you will actually believe your penis is inside a real vagina. This is coming real soon and will hopefully get rid of all the problems associated with live FWBs.

 

I am sure there will always be purists who will reject technology, but at some point FWBs will be replaced by virtual reality.

[zengirl]

zengirl, when I read your thoughts about this issue, they always sound SO complicated to me.

 

For me, it's quite simple. I want mutually beneficial and enjoyable sex that is affectionate, fun, passionate, safe, and all that good stuff -- not just some mechanical experience. If I wanted that, I'd use a toy.

 

And I want to have this sex with a guy that I have enough in common with to enjoy his company, and have some fun and stimulating conversation with while we're together.

 

If this guy is open to that and OK with it, great. I will never lie about what I want and where things are going.

 

This is not a substitute for a relationship, but it's something fun, sexy, and pleasurable for us both to enjoy while we are not in relationships.

 

But you only want it because you can't find a relationship? (Or believe you can't.) I guess whenever you write about it, it makes me wonder if you actually really do want a relationship. Not that it's any of my business, but perhaps that's why my thoughts sound complex, because I cannot imagine assuming I could not have a relationship if I wanted one and thus going for something else in its stead.

 

Even though it's not my cuppa, I can imagine a dynamic like what you describe, but only if that's ultimately what I wanted. Or if I absolutely knew I couldn't have what I wanted---then, I'd adjust my wants. To me, that is acceptance, adjusting when the world says "No." But assuming the world is saying "No" seems odd to me. Whenever I want a relationship, I assume it's right around the corner. (And it often is.)

[snug.bunny]

Sex outside of a relationship, IS mechanical. The only difference is, instead of using a "toy", you have a live person, flesh and blood, inside of you (or you inside of them, depending on gender).

 

I would view sex with companionship (FWB) as sexually mechanical, as well as a mind-f***, because you are sexing it up with a false sense of companionship/closeness...

[2011aug]

... I am taking about what makes the BF different from a FWB. It goes without saying that the BF has higher hierarchy than the FWB, but how does he know that? What is extra for the BF? Is there anything else other than commitment?

 

That's a good point you make. I have not thought of that.

 

So, what is extra for the BF? What is the special that a BF gets that FWB does not?

[2011aug]

Sex outside of a relationship, IS mechanical. The only difference is, instead of using a "toy", you have a live person, flesh and blood, inside of you (or you inside of them, depending on gender).

 

I would view sex with companionship (FWB) as sexually mechanical, as well as a mind-f***, because you are sexing it up with a false sense of companionship/closeness...

 

 

A fully functioning robot is just around the corner. The advance in robotics nowadays is impressive.

[verhrzn]

That's a good point you make. I have not thought of that.

 

So, what is extra for the BF? What is the special that a BF gets that FWB does not?

 

Commitment and exclusivity; those are two very big things that BFs get that FWBs do not. For myself, I also have things that are "boyfriend-only" perks...

 

For instance, it's my belief that if you're dating someone exclusively, you should be keeping them satisfied, meaning making an effort sexually even if you're not in the mood. An FWB does not get that benefit... He gets physical affection when I feel like it, and only then.

 

For some guys, not getting a commitment or exclusivity from their FWB is not that big of a deal, but that's because they don't want to date the person, they have no emotional connection to them.