Trying to let go...still.

[April72]

I know there is a lot of you tired of listening to me whine. Heck I'm tired of whining. I'm trying very hard to get past my insane jealousy over my SO's past. That with asking he so lovingly dumped on my door step.

 

Here's my thoughts today and I would love some constructive input... I don't need to hear how it's his past get over yourself... I already know and wish it were that easy.

 

A friend suggested that the reason he told me all this stuff was out of love. Her theory was that he wanted to be able to tell me everything about him even his worse and that if I still loved him after knowing then he would know I truly loved him. That he feared I would find out and have a bad reaction that he hadn't told me. And that because he loves me and wants a more serious commitment that he wanted to make sure that I could accept everything there was to accept.

 

My thoughts are I knew neither of us were virgins when we met. I knew his past was more colorful then mine because of a history of drug/alcohol abuse. And that's all I needed to know. Accepted. Why did he need to go into details of the sex he had ? Unless it's still going on or he stills wants those things then what does stuff from 20 yrs before matter now ???

 

Does anyone else think he did it out of love ???

Edited August 16, 2011 by April72

[Desensitized]

A friend suggested that the reason he told me all this stuff was out of love. Her theory was that he wanted to be able to tell me everything about him even his worse and that if I still loved him after knowing then he would know I truly loved him. That he feared I would find out and have a bad reaction that he hadn't told me. And that because he loves me and wants a more serious commitment that he wanted to make sure that I could accept everything there was to accept.

 

The truth of the matter is, your friends could come up with a lot of reasons for why he said what he said. The reality is, that, what they say could be the truth, or it could not be. If you really want to know why he told you, ask him. However, I wouldn't expect the absolute truth to come from his mouth as to why he told you in the beginning. Honestly, I believe those kind of people just like to brag about their pasts as some sort of accomplishment when in reality, it makes them look pretty un-classy and easy. You probably will never know the absolute truth to why he told you. Sorry.

 

And no, I don't think he did it out of love. You barely started to date when he told you, no? So how could he love you that quick? Just a thought.

[April72]

I know you guys are right.... I just want it to stop bothering me!!! Will it ever get better ????

[Desensitized]

I know you guys are right.... I just want it to stop bothering me!!! Will it ever get better ????

I can't speak for you. But, for me, my RJ never went away. I didn't feel that it was fair to my s/o that I was being distant from her, so I just ended things with her.

 

only if you want it too....

Not true. I'm sure she wants it to get better, but RJ is a very complicated thing.

[Kelemort]

brokenhartedkid, RJ is known for being a very long-term and difficult issue. It's believed to be a component of purely obsessional OCD, so it's not just something that you 'wish away' or 'choose' to get over. Why would anyone choose to feel this way? It's often daily misery for people.

 

I can say that my RJ has gotten better - I've been suffering for about 2 years. I'm not in therapy and I never underwent treatment. Many of the times that I post here is when I get the feelings the strongest. Time in the relationship and time since the offense helps; 2 - 3 years after my boyfriend announced the acts his ex performed on him with a huge smile on his face is different than it was a few months after.

 

I don't think it ever completely goes away. And I do think that partners who feel the need to tell you details, as mine told me, are immature morons. My boyfriend was only 25 when he did this and besides his ex (with whom I'm wagering he only slept a few times - it was a long-distance relationship and they saw each other for a grand total of 2 to 3 weeks), he was totally inexperienced otherwise. I think it was his attempt to bolster his self-esteem and make himself seem more attractive to another woman - i.e., "I've had sex before...girls want me and you should too," rather than an intentional slap in my face before we were barely out of the gate. But it's still entirely insensitive and cruel - no one is going to doubt that.

 

I really started getting more involved in my own life and stopped treating my boyfriend as the Holy Grail of my life. I had put all my eggs in one basket - him. All my happiness in him. It helped for me to put more interest in my career, family and friends. I get out a few nights a week. Nothing that involves him. I also started working out and losing weight, which has probably proven the biggest help in making me feel better. I felt prettier and more attractive and more people look at me now. It made me realize, "My boyfriend is not my only option."

 

I think RJ is worse, personally, when you feel your partner is the only one who would want you. I was a virgin when I met my partner and knew he wasn't. I didn't know to what extent he was CLINGING to his ex, though, and that makes a world of difference. When you feel you have options, suddenly you can say, "You were horrible to me, but I CHOOSE to stay with you," rather than, "You were horrible to me and no one else will want me, so I'm stuck here." Choosing to be in the relationship as opposed to 'stuck' can mean a world of difference.

 

But, I try to keep my mind busy. Sometimes, when the thoughts surface, I just leave the room and go find an activity to do alone. Sometimes I still cry or write in a journal, but very rarely. Sometimes I admit to less healthy tactics - I find myself ignoring him or getting angry over the crap he pulled up until 7 months ago. I put up with a lot of crap being with this man, and I still do not think it was worth it. Eventually, I will probably leave.

 

I think the problem is partly ours and, in our cases, mostly because of our partners. I have not been jealous historically in past relationships - maybe a fleeting second or two if a boyfriend was going to be alone with another woman or something, but that was it. But this relationship really awakened my jealousy...because of his very upfront "Gotta tell you all about my ex! Who I am SO over !" attitude. If I dumped him, I'd probably be relieved of the burden.

 

I don't know why your boyfriend told you. Maybe it was also just to make him feel sexy. You said this happened 20 something years ago. An older man trying to relive his youth and feel attractive?

[Kelemort]

It's believed to be - purely O is all about the obsessions and rumination without the obvious physical compulsion part (hence 'purely O.') Not everyone who has RJ has purely O, but I wouldn't doubt that there's a HEAVY chemical issue going on in their brains regardless. Most probably have a history or a family history of serotonin-related mood disorders - depression, OCD, anxiety problems, etc.

 

I have several relatives who have OCD - an uncle and a few cousins, for starters. Several relatives who have had depression, whether diagnosed or not, including my parents. Schizophrenia, bipolar, etc, it's all there. The next generation of my family has started and I've seen several examples of potentially OCD-ish behavior in the kids (obsessing over things, repeating everything they say about 200 times, getting obsessed with perfection, etc...at 3 or 4! Spent most of my life baby-sitting kids, and it's abnormal for sure. Kids will repeat stuff, but not every. single. thing.)

 

RJ is absolute Hell. I have not had the worst of it for a few months now...my life is mostly normal but I still think about what bothers me at least in passing a few times a day. I have learned to have more of a sense of self and to view myself as #1 in my life. That really helped.

 

Low self-esteem is only going to push RJ further...you have to find a way to feel good about yourself. I don't know if my boyfriend thinks his ex was better than me or what, but I no longer care as much. I work on myself, shaping up my body and getting healthy. I don't need his opinion.

 

And I think a lot of relationships just damage, damage, damage you even further when you have RJ. I know for a very long time my partner was VERY resistant to helping me and would just call me 'unreasonably jealous' or 'controlling' because he didn't want to change his behavior.

 

Newsflash: it is NOT cool to go on and on about your ex, chronicle your sex life with her, show your new girlfriend all of the pictures you have of your ex stored everywhere, talk about sending your ex gifts, lie about being in contact with your ex, keep your ex's number years later...for God's sakes it was a one-year long-distance relationship. He saw the girl for a grand total of a few weeks.

 

I've seen some cases of RJ where people are just overwhelmed just because they know the partner had sex with someone else, and that's definitely not fair - that is just solely the sufferer's problem. But then you have other cases (apparently like mine and April's) where the guy BOASTED about it and spent months going on about it.

 

That's just emotionally abusive to your partner. That is reinforcing over and over again, "I have one or both feet in the past, and you can't come here, neener-neener" or "My ex is better than you - that's why I can't stop thinking or talking about her!"

 

So it's no wonder in those cases that people develop RJ - and in seems to some extent inaccurate to even call it RJ. Because if a partner's bringing his love/admiration for that person into the present, is it really retroactive? It's happening in your present. The woman may not be there but you're getting all of your partner's feelings for her blasted at you in the present.

 

So I think there's a difference there...I'd imagine the RJ where people flip just knowing the other person's slept with someone else is much, much, much more severe than what many people here have. And it also seems men are much, much more afflicted with RJ (it is more common in them) over simple things - i.e., knowing the girlfriend has been with someone else.

 

While usually, it seems it's a more complex issue for the woman - like, her guy obviously wasn't over his last girlfriend.

 

I know it really would have helped me if, early on, my boyfriend had just been honest and admitted he still had feelings for her or wanted to be with her - something. I just do not buy that a man who is 'over' an ex feels the need to go on about her like that years later. He still had feelings for her...he just wouldn't admit it. And unfortunately I had to suffer through that.

 

The resentment from that carries for a long, long time. I entirely empathize with April because this is never what I wanted or imagined with my life. I wanted a relationship where I felt secure and happy. Historically, that has not happened - but I have only been with one other person, who was very controlling/manipulative/insecure...the type to call you 10 - 15 times in a row if he knew you were with a friend. Any friend.

 

Dealing with RJ is tough because of the 'controlling' label. April, have you read "Romantic Jealousy: Causes, Symptoms, Cures"? I think it would be really good for you - it really did help me. I asked my partner to read that and that was when he started shaping up. Pictures got backed up onto discs and put away, he stopped talking about her, deleted her off Facebook, etc.

 

He always wanted to claim I'd just be 'jealous of something else.' Nope! Not jealous of anything else. Only thing that bothers me is if he goes on and on about how hot someone we know in person is. I don't care if he's going on about celebrities and all...who cares? But if it's a friend or something, I don't want to hear him spare more than a few comments about her looks at once.

 

Partners blame the person with RJ. I dealt with so many critical comments - from WOMEN especially. I honestly think that women are just trained to see themselves as being jealous and so attack others who openly share that jealousy as a way to reaffirm that they themselves are 'not jealous.' "Romantic Jealousy" actually has a bunch of surveys about what things would make people jealous...and I was pretty shocked to find out I was FAR less jealous than the average person.

 

For a long time after we resolved the issues I was still insecure - fearful that something ELSE would bounce up because he had a way of not following through at first (like when he agreed he'd get the pictures of his ex off the computer...and when I went to save a picture, up popped a folder that read "MY FUN TIME WITH X AT!" So much for backing those pictures up).

 

I offered a compromise and for a long time my partner was very headstrong ("I'm not doing that.") That was until the day I'd decided I had enough, bagged up all of his crap, and dropped it in his living room. I told him I'd had enough being second best to a memory and it was time for him to take me seriously. Never told him to destroy the pictures, but told him they needed to be in a place where I wouldn't have to be constantly reminded. It wasn't fair to me if he announced, "Hey, go check out my new pics on Flickr!" realizing I'd have to wade through shots of his ex on there. It's just entirely insensitive.

 

You need to have a backbone in this because your partner will walk all over you. Trust me. Don't back down. You deserve better treatment than for someone to reinforce that they're with you just because the ex left. Too many women especially tolerate that garbage. There is always ANOTHER MAN who will treat you like you're number one. Dump his ass if he's not willing to meet you halfway.

 

I think there's a fine line between setting boundaries and being controlling. I have no problem with all of my boyfriend's activities. We do things several nights a week with our own respective groups of friends. I don't mind if he goes out to lunch with a female co-worker. I would mind if he started getting closer to her, since he has a history of not respecting my boundaries. He talks to a bunch of female friends on-line and has discussed meeting them, which I don't mind. I have talked to at least some of them. We live our own lives and have a life together too - there is just no room for exes there, nor should they be.

 

But my general view is that this never completely goes away, at least while you're in the relationship that activated your RJ. I know some people suffer from RJ no matter what relationship they're in, which is really unfortunate. It is still sometimes a daily or weekly struggle to forgive my boyfriend for all the garbage he brought on me and the disrespect he showed me throughout this process.

 

He treated me horribly the first year we were together - always talking to me with attitude and being a jerk over-all. Now he realizes I'm getting more independent and confident away from him, and he's getting more insecure and even clingy. I think he realizes that his behavior is going to catch up to him and he's going to get a door very hard in the face one of these days unless he shapes up. Still doesn't treat me perfectly, but...

 

Well, this is quite a ramble. I digress.

[chelsea2011]

Kelemort said:

 

I know for a very long time my partner was VERY resistant to helping me and would just call me 'unreasonably jealous' or 'controlling' because he didn't want to change his behavior.

 

I was accused of this by my very recent ex and bought the whole ball of wax hook line and sinker. It turns out he was projecting what he was doing onto ME. Yup, he was living with and committed to someone else the whole entire time. I was duped! So I am jaded now in a different way with this whole rj experience. If I ever run into it again, I will question the person's integrity and find out if they are, indeed, involved with someone else. I am a very loyal person who would never cheat on someone I am committed to..ever, yet I was mae to feel like I was the biggest piece of crap on the face of the earth.

 

Kelemort, does your guy know what you actually say about him? You should let him read it, so he knows exactly where he stands with you. I think your lucky to have him in your life.

 

OP, you need to look within and figure out exactly what trauma you experienced as a kid and you will find your answers. Try yoga and meditation too. It helps.

[Kelemort]

I don't feel that lucky to have him, given that this problem carried on and on for more than 2 years...I always lacked the self-esteem and drive to leave. I know that he is a decent person and he would make a good boyfriend/husband to someone...but in general he has several other behaviors that are very off-putting to live with (being a nitpicker, for one).

 

He doesn't know to what extent I blow off steam here. A lot of it is that we rehashed this argument so many times that it no longer does any good, regardless of how it's approached. It's just better to blow off steam here and continue to not bring it up in the relationship. I feel in some ways that bringing it up makes it worse - for one, he gets angry, I feel like a jerk for bringing it up, and then I feel like I've revived his ex-girlfriend and brought her into our present all over again.

 

He knows I am unhappy about all of the things he did - we've discussed it. And we've discussed why he did it until the ends of the Earth, but I think the excuses are full of crap (i.e., "I dunno why I did it" or "I just didn't realize it would hurt you." Those are excuses, not motivations for why he actually said it - which I believe to this day is still "omg I was so in love with her!"). So, I simply stopped asking. It got us no where and there was no sense in it.

 

For a long time, with my RJ, I found myself continually probing him for answers about what he did. And I admit I brought some of the RJ on myself, although not at the onset. I'd ask more questions in the hopes that having more information would make me feel better. Instead, it always made me feel worse. That only happened a few times - most of the information I learned about their relationship came from his ignorant, way-forthcoming mouth.

 

So, no. He doesn't know to what extent I resent him. He knows that I resent him, as our relationship has steadily grown colder and more distant. While I wouldn't cheat, I'd be lying if I said I didn't spend the vast majority of my time thinking about other men and the possibility of leaving my current relationship and getting into another. I rarely think about my boyfriend in a sexual context - he just doesn't turn me on anymore. Sex is a chore.

 

I just think that RJ has already ruined our relationship. I blame myself for not feeling confident and sexy enough in myself regardless of what he said - what he said just ended up toppling an already fragile sense of self-esteem. And I blame him for ever thinking it appropriate to start telling the girl he just started dating about the blowjobs his ex gave him or the sex they used to have. Who DOES that? Unprompted like that? I'd ask a little about her - like where she lived, etc. - but I did not ask for sexual details.

 

He learned his lesson but I still think it was too little, too late. I'd imagine his next relationship will probably be better, as he's learned a great, great deal in this one. And I have learned to instantly shut up any man who wants to start gabbing about his ex. A few comments about her, and then the topic ends forever, is best. There's no reason to divulge more about her if he's supposedly 'done' and 'over' her. I do not want to spend the majority of another relationship mending someone's broken heart from an EX lover.

 

It's just unfortunate that I had to be the 'bridge' between his ex and his next relationship. I don't think that we will survive but I'm at peace with it. You're right in that he is a decent man - that decent man has just done too much to me for me to be happy.

[chelsea2011]

You should leave him then and call it a day. I was told, through friends, al of the stuff you are saying and the reality was, this guy was in a fulltime relationship with someone else. He didn't have the courage to talk to me directly, which I am sure contributed to whatever he was going through.

 

You can't hold someone else responsible for your own fragile self esteem issues. That is something you need to figure out on your own. I too had low self esteem when I met him but I got myself into therapy and did the work I needed to do to fix it. I didn't back down and blame others for what was wrong with me. That was for me to figure out.

 

Plenty of people make mistakes in the beginning of relationships. For instance, I was told by others that my guy cheated before and he mentioned the woman A LOT when we first started dating. It was off putting for me as well, but I didn't hold onto to it. I eventually let it go. My biggest mistake was that I didn't listen to my gut in the very beginning. As soon as he said that him and his ex were great friends, I should have cut things off rigt then and there. Well, now I know and will never ever date a guy who is separated and not emotionally divorced from his ex. I will also not tolerate someone projecting their own insecurities onto me to make themselves feel better. Done with that and will send it rigt back where it belongs.

[Desensitized]

You can't hold someone else responsible for your own fragile self esteem issues. That is something you need to figure out on your own. I too had low self esteem when I met him but I got myself into therapy and did the work I needed to do to fix it. I didn't back down and blame others for what was wrong with me. That was for me to figure out.

 

I've yet to see where Kelemort's so-called self-esteem "issues" come into play here. Say that she did have self-esteem issues, would it really matter? The point of the matter is, that, her boyfriend was purposefully making her jealous in the beginning of their relationship. This type of behavior isn't warranted and anyone with actual feelings would be hurt by this type of behavior - especially if you actually like the person you're with. The only people that choose to brag about their history are the ones that have the self-esteem issues. Think about it. Would anyone with a good sense of self-worth even bother to brag about things that happened long ago? No. That would be like me bragging that I was my High School's valedictorian 10 years ago when, in reality, it's not even relevant anymore; there's probably other people that surpassed my intelligence long ago.

 

People that have the need to bring up the past in the present moment have something wrong with themselves, and they are the ones that need to see a therapist. Obviously they have some underlying self-esteem issues if they feel the need to constantly bring up their past achievements/adventures to make themselves feel special. Anyone who actually has a good sense of self-worth doesn't need to bring up the past because they know that they are the sh*t in the present moment without having to constantly bring up the past to sort of reinforce their "hey, i'm awesome" attitude.

 

@Kelemort - I say just dump the guy already. Doesn't matter if he's learned or not - honestly, what person would purposefully brag to their s/o about their past sexual activities? Certainly not a person with common sense. Your boyfriend sounds like the male equivalent of a bimbo. No offense. But, like you, I also dated a bimbo. Time to find yourself a real man, Kalemort.

[chelsea2011]

Hey, I didn't say she had low esteem, she did. Don't turn this around on me. I totally agree, she should dump the guy if he has caused her this much stress and she can't get over it. That's the logical thing to do.

[chelsea2011]

Hey, I didn't say she had low esteem, she did. Don't turn this around on me. I totally agree, she should dump the guy if he has caused her this much stress and she can't get over it. That's the logical thing to do.

 

Edited to add, after reading the history, I think you find it more convenient to blame your bf kmt. Your posts are oozing with anger. I think the real issue is that you had a huge bubble of anger hidden in a deep dark corner within you and this poor slobe comes along like a bull in a china shop and dislodged it and brought it to the surface. And instead of actually facing it head on and dealing with it honestly, it is easier for you to put it on him and make him bend to accomodate the fact that you don't want to face the real issue. Your reaction to him is just a symptom of a deeper issue you either aren't aware of or don't really want to face and take responsibility for. I say this because your posts are always about him and what he did to you. Even your efforts to control it are all about making you feel better an:love:d not about compromise and considering his needs. It's all about "me me me" and nothing about how you may be hurting him by dumping it all on him. He was at

least trying to compromise and that means he values/valued you and your needs.

[Orianne]

I heard similar stories from my husband, but that was years ago, when we were still just best friends. He would tell me about the dates he went on, the girls he slept with, how wonderful the hookers in Germany were, etc... I was pretty much his confidant about everything, and I had to bury all that info in the back of my mind when we started dating. Now it doesn't hardly phase me when I think about it.

 

If you want to let this stuff go, it will get better. But if you're just going to hold on to it and use it as a reason to resent your boyfriend, then you should leave him.

[Kelemort]

Yes, I am still upset about what happened - but I've mentioned before that when I post here, it's usually because it's surfaced to mind again. It's not representative of my feelings 24/7 (I've disappeared for weeks or months in the past). It's also not representative of how I handle the situation with HIM. I don't bring up the retroactive jealousy to him anymore and haven't steadily brought it up in months - I have my days and moments when it surfaces and I mention it, but mostly I have learned to handle it by myself. No, I don't feel it's fair to dump it all on him - which is why I don't.

 

And I'm also aware that the relationship is more or less in its death throes and has been for a while and I need to leave - but there are also barriers to that happening, and until those are sorted out, I'm sort of stuck unless I want to risk even more trouble.

 

Do I have self-esteem problems? Yes. But I'm pretty certain that any woman listening to her boyfriend opine about the amazing blowjobs and sex he got from an ex-girlfriend, how amazing she is/was, lying about being in contact with her, talking about her constantly, talking about sending her gifts - all the while supposedly not being in contact with her and not being in contact with her for years - is enough to rock anyone's views of themselves and how attractive they are to the opposite sex. I mean, he couldn't have put a bigger stamp on me that read, "You are nothing compared to my ex-girlfriend - that's why I can't stop thinking about her!"

 

I'm not angry about anything else and victimizing my poor, wittle, innocent boyfriend. Like I said - I have learned how to predominantly keep the RJ to myself. But, I'm done with going any deeper into the issues, chelsea - I don't think that you understand retroactive jealousy or Purely Obsessional OCD, and like most people who try too desperately to distance themselves from the prospect of jealousy, you blame anyone who shows jealousy.

 

Being jealous is not always solely the jealous person's fault - certainly I should be getting over this and should be happier with my life, but other peoples' actions DO affect you. Unfortunately, we still live in a society that believes that being jealous automatically makes one a defective, immature, irrational monster regardless of what the partner does.