FWB versus dating

[ThsAmericanLife]

I was always concerned that the transition to steady BF would not be so steady if a FWB or 'good for now' man situation was going on when I met hopefully steady BF.

 

How would I explain this, exactly, to someone I really like and want to see full-time??

[Pierre]

I was always concerned that the transition to steady BF would not be so steady if a FWB or 'good for now' man situation was going on when I met hopefully steady BF.

 

How would I explain this, exactly, to someone I really like and want to see full-time??

 

There are two options:

 

Lying by omission about the existence of FWB.

 

Or simply telling the date I currently have a FWB, but I am now looking for a steady BF.

 

It would be no different than a married woman telling the prospective OM I am curretly married. It may be or it may not be a barrier depending on the man.

[ThsAmericanLife]

There are two options:

 

Lying by omission about the existence of FWB.

 

Or simply telling the date I currently have a FWB, but I am now looking for a steady BF.

 

It would be no different than a married woman telling the prospective OM I am curretly married. It may be or it may not be a barrier depending on the man.

 

My ideal man wouldn't be happy with either one. And vice versa.

[ASG]

There is a bit of a contradiction with your situation ASG. You say ' I will also not settle for something that I don't think is going to work', but you are doing that in effect with your 'non relationship material' FWB man. At least you are not ignoring other prospects though.

 

There is no contradiction, My FWB is NOT my BF. He's a friend I hang out with, maybe once every 3 to 4 months, whenever I'm in town, seeing as I live in another country.

 

My relationship with him is what it is and it doesn't stop me from meeting other people.

 

Even recently I met a guy that, had circumstances been different, I would consider as proper relationship material. But due to the nature of both our jobs, getting involved would not be wise, as we'd only have about 7 weeks together and then probably not see each other... ever again!

So even though we clicked, we both agreed that it wouldn't be wise to get involved.

[verhrzn]

The consensus I'm seeing is that a FWB is someone who you are casually friends with, but also sleeping with.

 

So what would you call it when it is more than friends but less than relationship?

 

I've been in a FWB situation with a guy for about a month and a half. I figured a FWB wouldn't be bad, as I like physical contact and have no other prospects. My assumption was we'd get together, make out, and say so long.

 

Instead, our interactions have turned into things I'd expect more from a boyfriend/potential relationship. He messages me every day, we meet his friends, play video games, watch movies, etc. The physical contact has become less than 40% of our time spent together. He even took care of me when I got sick (stayed up with me all night, read to me, got me water) and always wants me to stay over.

 

Is that Friends with Benefits behavior by most people's standards? If not, then what is it??

[Pierre]

The consensus I'm seeing is that a FWB is someone who you are casually friends with, but also sleeping with.

 

So what would you call it when it is more than friends but less than relationship?

 

I've been in a FWB situation with a guy for about a month and a half. I figured a FWB wouldn't be bad, as I like physical contact and have no other prospects. My assumption was we'd get together, make out, and say so long.

 

Instead, our interactions have turned into things I'd expect more from a boyfriend/potential relationship. He messages me every day, we meet his friends, play video games, watch movies, etc. The physical contact has become less than 40% of our time spent together. He even took care of me when I got sick (stayed up with me all night, read to me, got me water) and always wants me to stay over.

 

Is that Friends with Benefits behavior by most people's standards? If not, then what is it??

You must provide some amazing benefits!

 

Sounds more like a BF to me.

 

You did it!! Congratulations!!

[ASG]

The consensus I'm seeing is that a FWB is someone who you are casually friends with, but also sleeping with.

 

So what would you call it when it is more than friends but less than relationship?

 

I've been in a FWB situation with a guy for about a month and a half. I figured a FWB wouldn't be bad, as I like physical contact and have no other prospects. My assumption was we'd get together, make out, and say so long.

 

Instead, our interactions have turned into things I'd expect more from a boyfriend/potential relationship. He messages me every day, we meet his friends, play video games, watch movies, etc. The physical contact has become less than 40% of our time spent together. He even took care of me when I got sick (stayed up with me all night, read to me, got me water) and always wants me to stay over.

 

Is that Friends with Benefits behavior by most people's standards? If not, then what is it??

 

Yeah, you seem to be progressing your relationship.

A FWB doesn't text/call every day. You don't really hang out with other friends and they don't usually take care of you when you're ill.

[verhrzn]

Yeah, you seem to be progressing your relationship.

A FWB doesn't text/call every day. You don't really hang out with other friends and they don't usually take care of you when you're ill.

 

See, that's why I'm confused... Because he does that, but then he'll also slip in references to us being "casual." (Like last night he was explaining there were categories of attractiveness, like "the one night stand you never want to speak to again." He said," Or the friends you have a casual thing going with, like what we're doing-")

 

Buuuuut then once in a while he'll slip the other direction and call me his girlfriend (joking about how I'm his bodyguard at bars, since I do martial arts as a hobby, and he can brag to everyone that his girlfriend can beat up your girlfriend.)

 

So..... throw my hands in the air and give up?

[Pierre]

See, that's why I'm confused... Because he does that, but then he'll also slip in references to us being "casual." (Like last night he was explaining there were categories of attractiveness, like "the one night stand you never want to speak to again." He said," Or the friends you have a casual thing going with, like what we're doing-")

 

Buuuuut then once in a while he'll slip the other direction and call me his girlfriend (joking about how I'm his bodyguard at bars, since I do martial arts as a hobby, and he can brag to everyone that his girlfriend can beat up your girlfriend.)

 

So..... throw my hands in the air and give up?

 

 

Men are weak and can also fall in love after a few great romantic sessions in the sac.

 

I just thought of this analogy that may only apply to you:

 

Marriage more commitment than living together.

 

GF/BF more commitment than FWB.

 

I think he wants a GF, but does not want to sign the papers.

[Ruby Slippers]

The challenge I have with my guy is that he has clearly communicated he wants a relationship, and his behavior backs this up. He is caring, adoring, and will go to any length to please me in bed. He brings me little things (like chocolate), handles me with care, adapts to all my feedback.

 

But after I ended things with him before because he was getting emotional, now he has come back and told me that we can do this however I want -- just let him know when, where, and how I want him.

 

I know he's not boyfriend material, but he is very likable and desirable in a number of ways. So it's a battle between my emotional and rational sides. An interesting challenge, but certainly not an easy one.

[OliveOyl]

The challenge I have with my guy is that he has clearly communicated he wants a relationship, and his behavior backs this up. He is caring, adoring, and will go to any length to please me in bed. He brings me little things (like chocolate), handles me with care, adapts to all my feedback.

 

But after I ended things with him before because he was getting emotional, now he has come back and told me that we can do this however I want -- just let him know when, where, and how I want him.

 

I know he's not boyfriend material, but he is very likable and desirable in a number of ways. So it's a battle between my emotional and rational sides. An interesting challenge, but certainly not an easy one.

I'm going to guess that it's something about his job, financial situation, and/or living situation that is the "deal-breaker" about him being suitable BF. I know you've said it's something you don't want to discuss and that's cool. It's obviously not anything having to do with his looks, or his general personality, or he wouldn't even be lover status right now with you, right?

 

Here is my question: Assuming it's one of those three things (I remember you mentioned it's something that's fixable but will take time)... is this something that really makes him unsuitable for a real relationship? You earn your own money... you don't need a man/relationship for that now, or even in the foreseeable future, right? If he is say, "living with his parents", that's something that can easily change too. Is it that you would feel uncomfortable presenting him as your BF around your social circle because other people will tell you that you can "do better"?

 

I can't remember if it was you or another person who mentioned that their FWB wasn't as intelligent as they preferred and high intelligence was a huge "turn-on". Yet they were happily enjoying a FWB situation which makes me think such high intelligence was overrated. (My ex is highly intelligent and I loved that fact about him... at least the idea of it... but in reality, especially toward the end, it didn't matter one bit because we hardly ever talked about anything outside of mundane daily stuff. I'd much rather have someone who is "average" intelligence who I can TALK to...)

 

Are you interested in starting a family so a guy who earns a decent amount is important so you can be available for the kids? That reason that does make some sense.

 

I'm just trying to understand why you are fighting so much against a relationship with this guy. I learned a lot in my marriage and one of the things I did learn is: the things that seemed to matter on paper don't really matter as much in the long run. I am wondering if you are trying to look for someone who looks good "on paper" because truthfully this guy who is your "lover" sounds wonderful.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm just trying to understand why you are fighting so much against a relationship with this guy.

Trust me, he is not a real relationship prospect. I wish he were! But he's not. Once I started getting to know him a little bit, I considered this very seriously, and quickly realized he is nowhere near the point of being a real candidate for me.

 

He's got great POTENTIAL. But it's very unwise to get into a relationship with someone for his potential.

 

Story of my life.

[verhrzn]

The challenge I have with my guy is that he has clearly communicated he wants a relationship, and his behavior backs this up. He is caring, adoring, and will go to any length to please me in bed. He brings me little things (like chocolate), handles me with care, adapts to all my feedback.

 

But after I ended things with him before because he was getting emotional, now he has come back and told me that we can do this however I want -- just let him know when, where, and how I want him.

 

I know he's not boyfriend material, but he is very likable and desirable in a number of ways. So it's a battle between my emotional and rational sides. An interesting challenge, but certainly not an easy one.

 

Would ya like to trade?

[Ruby Slippers]

Would ya like to trade?

No way. I think I'm in the best possible situation here -- a lot of power, and low risk.

[sm1tten]

But after I ended things with him before because he was getting emotional, now he has come back and told me that we can do this however I want -- just let him know when, where, and how I want him.

 

Do you think that he is capable of not going all emotional on you again, though? Because it already seems like he's getting in a bit over his head, again.

 

Also, what if this keeps going, would you possible consider changing your mind about a serious relationship with him?

 

Yes, I'm being a little nosy, but I'm also curious how stiff your boundaries are.

[Pierre]

Would ya like to trade?

 

After reading Ruby's post I thought of something. Could it be your FWB thinks you are missing some elements to be full blown GF?

 

Are you two of similar background? Is there anything that stands out?

[verhrzn]

After reading Ruby's post I thought of something. Could it be your FWB thinks you are missing some elements to be full blown GF?

 

Are you two of similar background? Is there anything that stands out?

 

Well there must be some reason I'm not suitable as a girlfriend, but I can't think as of what. We're both from middle class, Midwestern, Caucasian backgrounds, both went to college, both have parents who are still married, both have steady office-professional jobs (I make a *tad* more than him, being in IT), neither previously married or with children...

 

He also won't talk about why he isn't able to handle a romantic relationship right now (the best I got is that he went out on a limb a few months ago and it burned him... so...) From the little history I've gathered, he does seem far more comfortable with FWBs than girlfriends... He's 30 years old, has had about 11 partners but only 2 serious girlfriends, both of whom lasted less than a year.

 

He also has lots and lots of female friends, several of whom he's had some sort of arrangement in the past. He says he's not sleeping with anyone else ("I can see why you think that, as I have lots of female friends and am attractive").... but I suspect that he really just enjoys the freedom of being single, but also wants the benefits of a romantic relationship.

 

So, the classic "have his cake and eat it too"?

 

.... I do wish he'd knock it off, though, it can get quite frustrating with him sitting there going on and on about how excited he is to be a dad, and how he hopes his wife will be nerdy and into the stuff he is, as I'm sitting there across from him being.... nerdy and into the stuff he is.

[Ruby Slippers]

Do you think that he is capable of not going all emotional on you again, though? Because it already seems like he's getting in a bit over his head, again.

Well, he has done pretty well so far. He sent me one slightly sappy picture/message last week, but he has not contacted me at all since he came over on Thursday. And then in bed the other morning, he was looking at me and said all dreamily, "Beautiful blue eyes." I just smiled, said, "Beautiful brown eyes," and kissed him.

 

It's weird, though, because while I understand why he's playing it cool and not contacting me after the other night (he told me he was going to do it this way, to keep things more in control), it turns me off and makes my interest cool. Even though this is not a conventional relationship, I am strongly socialized to let the man pursue in almost all ways. And believe me, when he comes over, he is definitely "wearing the pants" the second he walks in the door -- which I love. I am not used to initiating contact at all. I would prefer that he contact me about getting together, then we find a time that works for us both.

 

But maybe this is just me letting my ego run the show, craving the validation of his chase. You know? He has pretty much said, "Look, I can't pursue you, because that gets me all fired up and fixated on you." And I get that. It makes sense. But it feels a little weird. Totally uncharted territory for me.

 

Also, what if this keeps going, would you possible consider changing your mind about a serious relationship with him?

Last time he was here, he immediately started telling me about some things he had done that would presumably move him closer to being a real relationship prospect. That's nice, but honestly, I think it would take him a considerable amount of time to make the necessary changes -- I'd say a year minimum. And I'm certainly not holding my breath for a year.

 

I have considered telling him let's end this, and get in touch with me if your circumstances change down the line. But that would most likely be the end of any contact with him.

[verhrzn]

I have considered telling him let's end this, and get in touch with me if your circumstances change down the line. But that would most likely be the end of any contact with him.

 

Well, if you're absolutely certain you're not gonna wait around for him to make the changes, and that he's not enough to convince you to date him, then I think it'd be cruel to continue letting the thing go on.

 

Even if he is able to stay strong, it's highly possible that he's doing it as a way to impress you... that he hasn't lost hope yet that you'll be as into him as he is into you.

 

I know you enjoy your time with him and get something out of it, but speaking as someone from the other side of the equation (not good enough to be a girlfriend but good enough to give sexual and emotional support as well as time and energy) it just becomes cruel, because there's the very serious chance that no matter how clear cut you are, you risk sending mixed signals.

 

All it takes is a small slip on your part (like my FWB-whatever accidentally calling me his girlfriend) for him to get the wrong idea, and for him to continue in an unhealthy attachment to someone who really just doesn't view him in the same light.

 

Isn't it really just wasting his time and energy when he could be spending it finding someone who DOES want him?

[Ruby Slippers]

Well, if you're absolutely certain you're not gonna wait around for him to make the changes, and that he's not enough to convince you to date him, then I think it'd be cruel to continue letting the thing go on.

 

Even if he is able to stay strong, it's highly possible that he's doing it as a way to impress you... that he hasn't lost hope yet that you'll be as into him as he is into you.

 

I know you enjoy your time with him and get something out of it, but speaking as someone from the other side of the equation (not good enough to be a girlfriend but good enough to give sexual and emotional support as well as time and energy) it just becomes cruel, because there's the very serious chance that no matter how clear cut you are, you risk sending mixed signals.

 

All it takes is a small slip on your part (like my FWB-whatever accidentally calling me his girlfriend) for him to get the wrong idea, and for him to continue in an unhealthy attachment to someone who really just doesn't view him in the same light.

 

Isn't it really just wasting his time and energy when he could be spending it finding someone who DOES want him?

I understand what you're saying. But isn't it his responsibility to decide what is OK for him and what's not?

 

I offered him fun, sex, sexual exclusivity, affection, and companionship, but no long-term commitment. I have not wavered on that at all.

 

It seems to me that your average undersexed 26-year-old guy would be totally on board with this arrangement. I think that most guys, even if they wanted to marry the girl, would take the fun and sex, if that were all she was willing to give. Am I wrong?

 

At any time, he's free to look for a real relationship prospect, as am I. In fact, I'm going to a social event this evening, and my main reason for going is to meet some cool new people. The best possible scenario would be that I would meet a relationship prospect.

[verhrzn]

I understand what you're saying. But isn't it his responsibility to decide what is OK for him and what's not?

 

I offered him fun, sex, sexual exclusivity, affection, and companionship, but no long-term commitment. I have not wavered on that at all.

 

It seems to me that your average undersexed 26-year-old guy would be totally on board with this arrangement. I think that most guys, even if they wanted to marry the girl, would take the fun and sex, if that were all she was willing to give. Am I wrong?

 

At any time, he's free to look for a real relationship prospect, as am I. In fact, I'm going to a social event this evening, and my main reason for going is to meet some cool new people. The best possible scenario would be that I would meet a relationship prospect.

 

Yes, yes, he's a grown up, you're a grown up, we're all very rational grown-ups.

 

Except even grown-ups aren't very rational when it comes to feelings. Feeling are, by nature, not the most super rational things.

 

I completely get where you're coming from, but at the same time I think it's a perspective that exists solely in the Land of No Feelings. But in the Land of Feelings, no matter how hard someone tries to just "keep it casual," they still inevitably start feeling more attached. In the Land of Feelings, getting MORE attached is the logical thing to do... You like this person, they seem to like you, maybe they could like you MORE, why would you mess up such a good thing??

 

For instance, my situation is very similar, except you and I are playing opposite roles. My FWB-whatever is happy to offer me fun, sex, sexual exclusivity, affection, and companionship. But that's not what I want. I want him, in a relationship... The part of my brain that has taken up residency in the Land of Feelings assumes that hey, I'm halfway there, maybe if I hold out and keep demonstrating how awesome I am, this guy will realize he wants what I want!

 

But he's not going to, just like you're not going to decide to like him enough to commit to him. Both of you want completely opposite things, and keep playing Russian Roulette, waiting for the other person to be persuaded that their original want is wrong, and they should totally just cross the border and come over into Land of Feelings/No Feelings.

 

Yes, he's an adult... but he's also an adult who at the moment may be too blinded by his emotions to see that you're not interested. This is ultimately going to cost him dearly in the long run... Yeah, he CAN go out and meet people, but the thing is, deep down, he doesn't want to. He wants YOU. Why go out and waste an evening trying to meet people, all people who are just not as awesome as you are to him? Why would he want THEM when he could, potentially, maybe, *fingers crossed*, have you?

 

It's just not human nature, that if we're invested in something, we're going to go out and chase something else. You are not invested, so you feel free to mingle, but he IS, thus he will not/cannot. (For me myself, when I get a crush on someone it's like every other male on Earth loses their appeal. Awesome in a monogamous relationship, terrible in an FWB situation.)

 

If you insist on examining it logically, then really it SHOULD be you who ends it... You know, for sure, it's going nowhere. He doesn't, and he wants it to. (Which logically means he won't be quick to end it, even if he SHOULD.) You know you're not that attached... if you end it, you can shake off the bad feelings with much more ease than he can, who will have those messy after emotions to clean up. You are ready and in fact currently looking elsewhere... he probably isn't, and thus would be much more blind sided if you DID find someone else to date.

 

Either way... the thing between you and he has to end. The longer it doesn't, the greater the potential for pain, probably on his side. He obviously isn't strong enough to walk away from a situation that does not really benefit him in the long run. Right now, you're getting all the benefits... maybe it's time you took on some of the responsibility for what's going down as well.

[OliveOyl]

.... I do wish he'd knock it off, though, it can get quite frustrating with him sitting there going on and on about how excited he is to be a dad, and how he hopes his wife will be nerdy and into the stuff he is, as I'm sitting there across from him being.... nerdy and into the stuff he is.

 

I wouldn't.... couldn't put myself into that situation anymore. Way back when I did and never again. If the guy isn't into me, then strictly friends. None of this cake-eating stuff. It's a huge blow to self-esteem, IMHO.

[OliveOyl]

I understand what you're saying. But isn't it his responsibility to decide what is OK for him and what's not?

 

I offered him fun, sex, sexual exclusivity, affection, and companionship, but no long-term commitment. I have not wavered on that at all.

The very fact that he wants a relationship with you, means he's relationship-minded. He's actually not a good candidate for a FWB/lover situation, even if you think most 26-yos would "jump" at the chance for no-strings hot sex. The ideal candidate is someone who really does NOT want a relationship and isn't even tempted.

 

You've said right now it's good because he's more into you than vice-versa, maybe partly because it's protecting your heart. I get that. But I think it's not so good he's so into you. Not because I think you should care so much about his feelings (although of course that is a good thing). But because his feelings are likely to be what derails the current arrangement.

 

In other words, low feelings on BOTH sides will probably enable a longer lasting FWB situation. Intense feelings... means you need to keep things neatly within boundaries and have lots of guidelines and rules (don't call on the weekend, for example)-- otherwise the intensity of the feelings will cause the FWB/lover situation to implode.

[Ruby Slippers]

Yes, yes, he's a grown up, you're a grown up, we're all very rational grown-ups.

 

Except even grown-ups aren't very rational when it comes to feelings. Feeling are, by nature, not the most super rational things.

 

I completely get where you're coming from, but at the same time I think it's a perspective that exists solely in the Land of No Feelings. But in the Land of Feelings, no matter how hard someone tries to just "keep it casual," they still inevitably start feeling more attached. In the Land of Feelings, getting MORE attached is the logical thing to do... You like this person, they seem to like you, maybe they could like you MORE, why would you mess up such a good thing??

 

For instance, my situation is very similar, except you and I are playing opposite roles. My FWB-whatever is happy to offer me fun, sex, sexual exclusivity, affection, and companionship. But that's not what I want. I want him, in a relationship... The part of my brain that has taken up residency in the Land of Feelings assumes that hey, I'm halfway there, maybe if I hold out and keep demonstrating how awesome I am, this guy will realize he wants what I want!

 

But he's not going to, just like you're not going to decide to like him enough to commit to him. Both of you want completely opposite things, and keep playing Russian Roulette, waiting for the other person to be persuaded that their original want is wrong, and they should totally just cross the border and come over into Land of Feelings/No Feelings.

 

Yes, he's an adult... but he's also an adult who at the moment may be too blinded by his emotions to see that you're not interested. This is ultimately going to cost him dearly in the long run... Yeah, he CAN go out and meet people, but the thing is, deep down, he doesn't want to. He wants YOU. Why go out and waste an evening trying to meet people, all people who are just not as awesome as you are to him? Why would he want THEM when he could, potentially, maybe, *fingers crossed*, have you?

 

It's just not human nature, that if we're invested in something, we're going to go out and chase something else. You are not invested, so you feel free to mingle, but he IS, thus he will not/cannot. (For me myself, when I get a crush on someone it's like every other male on Earth loses their appeal. Awesome in a monogamous relationship, terrible in an FWB situation.)

 

If you insist on examining it logically, then really it SHOULD be you who ends it... You know, for sure, it's going nowhere. He doesn't, and he wants it to. (Which logically means he won't be quick to end it, even if he SHOULD.) You know you're not that attached... if you end it, you can shake off the bad feelings with much more ease than he can, who will have those messy after emotions to clean up. You are ready and in fact currently looking elsewhere... he probably isn't, and thus would be much more blind sided if you DID find someone else to date.

 

Either way... the thing between you and he has to end. The longer it doesn't, the greater the potential for pain, probably on his side. He obviously isn't strong enough to walk away from a situation that does not really benefit him in the long run. Right now, you're getting all the benefits... maybe it's time you took on some of the responsibility for what's going down as well.

You've given me some things to think about, so thanks for that. It is good to get the other side.

 

I don't agree that I'm getting all the benefits. I think we are getting the same benefits. But I do get that with him, I want mashed potatoes and gravy, and with me, he wants the mashed potatoes, gravy, steak, veggies, and iced tea -- the whole meal. We are both getting the mashed potatoes and gravy, and with him, I am content with that. He is trying to be content with it, but probably wants the whole meal and is just keeping his appetite at bay. (Though I admit that I am also tempted to sample the other dishes -- meaning, learn more about him as a person, attach to him, be sweet and a little sappy, etc.)

 

But in spite of the points you make above, something tells me he really would rather have what he has with me than nothing. I don't think he would have come back around and apologized for his behavior before if that was not the case. Right?

[verhrzn]

But in spite of the points you make above, something tells me he really would rather have what he has with me than nothing. I don't think he would have come back around and apologized for his behavior before if that was not the case. Right?

 

Well of course. Who wouldn't prefer something over nothing? It's why my FWB doesn't look me in the face and tell me exactly why he will never date me, why the whole "can't handle a romantic relationship" is an excuse and he's just using me for companionship/sex while he waits for someone awesome to come along.

 

It's why I don't look him in the face and tell him exactly how much his behavior crushes me, how I fade a little every time he mentions how excited he is to have kids, how I can't bring myself to go out on dates anymore because I don't feel attracted to other guys.

 

It's because we both prefer something over nothing. He prefers to settle for the time being, and I prefer to be desperate, then sit in our apartments and be completely alone.

 

But is that really a good thing?