Are Men or Women More Likely to Overvalue Themselves?

[Casablanca]

Online I'd say women, offline I'd say men....but really both do it

[Mrlonelyone]

That is true but most women who do overrate themselves do so by more than 5%. They go beyond reason....to thinking their farts don't stink.

[Star Gazer]

I do have a benchmark for a womans level of attractiveness, and in addition I also have benchmarks for other qualities in a woman before I will move forward with her.

 

You better not be moving forward with anyone other than CE!!

[AHardDaysNight]

I think women are more likely to overvalue themselves, and men are more likely to undervalue themselves.

[USMCHokie]

Online women overvlaue thmeslves because theyre in a positon of power with a lot more men on there

 

Its why you have 90% of the women demanding men be 5'10 or over and in good shape even if they thmeslves look like a trainwreck

 

No offense but allot of those sites like pof seem to be filled with arrogant unattratcive women who feel they only deserve the best

 

This is more along the lines of what I was getting at. And to make matters worse, I find it incredibly laughable that 95% of women's profiles say something along the lines of: "tired of all the games..." or "looking for a good man for a change" or "why are all the guys here after only one thing..." And then they spout off a laundry list of "requirements" and say things like "chemistry is very important to me" (i.e., you have to be hot) and "I'm educated and you should be too" (i.e., you better have money) when in real life they don't even offer what they feel they are entitled to in a man...

 

All the women who chase the hot guys online become embittered when they are used for sex and swear there are no good guys out there when they eliminated 90% of the pool to start with because of their "requirements". Then they complain about it all while they keep chasing after those same guys who use them. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[verhrzn]

Online I'd say women, offline I'd say men....but really both do it

 

I'd agree with this. Part of the reason women may seem more selective/"value themselves higher" online is because they get cold called a lot and it's an easy screening method that doesn't make them feel like a bitch ("Hey I warned this guy I wasn't interested in the unemployed/blond/has a kid type.")

 

However, I'd seen lots and lots of women drop their list of requirements when they meet guys in real life, because they feel that chemistry with the guy, or because the guy has such a charming personality that wouldn't come across in an online situation.

 

On the flip side, nearly all the guys I run across have absolutely no standards in their profiles (aside from they don't want a fat/chubby body type.) But in real life, those very same guys will sit in the corner at bars with me and lament how only ugly girls are hitting on them, when the girls are perfectly presentable looking.

 

Being an ugly girl myself, I can also verify that guys online will SAY they have no requirements (besides, again, not being fat), but if I message them, they will respond back indefinitely without ever setting up a meeting, because DING, I don't do it for them physically. (I figure if I must be doing it for them intellectually/emotionally, or why waste time returning my messages.)

 

So, we could turn this camouflaged "girls are full of themselves" question into "At least girls are honest about their standards."

[verhrzn]

All the women who chase the hot guys online become embittered when they are used for sex and swear there are no good guys out there when they eliminated 90% of the pool to start with because of their "requirements". Then they complain about it all while they keep chasing after those same guys who use them. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

So in other words, the "good guys" are ugly, don't have education above a high school diploma, and are either unemployed or badly paid. Is that right?

[USMCHokie]

Do you mean in a physical attractiveness sense?

 

Both genders are capable of being full of themselves.

 

However, what I have noticed is that women have a benchmark for who the guy must be and provide, whereas men have a benchmark on how objectively hot the girl must be.

 

Yes. It's fairly obvious that physical looks are the primary factor in initial interest.

 

I agree, both genders are capable of inflated egos.

 

I don't necessarily agree with your last statement. I'm sure nonphysical traits are more important for women in the long run, but its the physical traits which usually generate the initial interest. Without them, there is no occasion or desire to learn about a person's personality.

[zengirl]

This is more along the lines of what I was getting at. And to make matters worse, I find it incredibly laughable that 95% of women's profiles say something along the lines of: "tired of all the games..." or "looking for a good man for a change" or "why are all the guys here after only one thing..." And then they spout off a laundry list of "requirements" and say things like "chemistry is very important to me" (i.e., you have to be hot) and "I'm educated and you should be too" (i.e., you better have money) when in real life they don't even offer what they feel they are entitled to in a man...

 

All the women who chase the hot guys online become embittered when they are used for sex and swear there are no good guys out there when they eliminated 90% of the pool to start with because of their "requirements". Then they complain about it all while they keep chasing after those same guys who use them. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

"I'm educated and you should be too" (while not the way I'd phrase it) doesn't sound like being about money to me. I'm not rich (not poor either, but: teacher's salary), and I value education because I'm highly educated (working on a PhD). I don't care if a guy is rich or not, though he should self-sufficient and do okay, but I won't date a guy without a degree. Doesn't have to be from somewhere fancy, but has to be college educated.

 

It's pretty stupid to say "Chemistry is important to me," though (yeah, you and everyone else, hun, but you can't judge that by reading a profile so the point is moot).

 

Anyway, besides a quick list, I never listed what I wanted from a guy even though OKC asks, "You should message me if. . . " (I think I did say I like guys who are fun, happy, smart, liberal/tolerant, educated, interesting, attractive, and kind. But doesn't everyone, except the liberal part, which depends on how they feel, etc?) But that wasn't because I didn't see myself as an awesome catch. It was because, "What's the point?" There's no way to condense what you're looking for perfectly into words, and anyone who wants to message me can (I did get annoyed when people ignored my age parameters, and I did say I was only interested in local guys) and I'll see what I think. And, of course, I'm only going to message guys I like.

 

Anyway, not on there now, but that's how I always went about it. FTR, I don't think it means I valued myself any less than those girls (I still wasn't gonna go out with guys I didn't dig). They just write crappy profiles.

[USMCHokie]

So in other words, the "good guys" are ugly, don't have education above a high school diploma, and are either unemployed or badly paid. Is that right?

 

Not even slightly. I'd venture to say that the average guy online is reasonably desirable for the average woman. It's not that the average guy is so undesirable, its that the bar is set so high for what women would consider "desirable" that it eliminates a large majority of average guys who are genuinely good guys.

 

And this bar is the same regardless of what the woman can "offer" herself.

[carhill]

I tend to meet a fair amount of women my age who evidently were 'hot' in their youth and carry that persona as a feature of their personality well into their 50's, with the attendant airs. To me, that's 'overvalued', in that they're living on past laurels. Some remain deserving of those laurels; others not so much.

 

I had occasion to sit next to an overvalued man in first class from Dulles to San Francisco on Tuesday, chattering incessantly on his cell phone (must have been a salesman), smelling like I do after three days with no shower and dumping a glass of red wine on my Levis while I was sleeping (I woke to him picking up the glass) without comment or apology. Self-important men bore me. As I towered over him, I guess my calm and quiet demeanor must have seemed subservient. Perhaps that's because I undervalue myself. Humility these days is a lost art.

 

I think men and women are equally likely to overvalue themselves but in unique and individual ways. I personally prefer to let friends and loved ones speak for me. That's my style. YMMV.

[AHardDaysNight]

What exactly is this "bar" that is set? And how does the average guy meet it?

 

After all, if you weren't born to be social, saying "don't be shy!" is not exactly the way to snap a person out of being shy.

[Content]

This is more along the lines of what I was getting at. And to make matters worse, I find it incredibly laughable that 95% of women's profiles say something along the lines of: "tired of all the games..." or "looking for a good man for a change" or "why are all the guys here after only one thing..." And then they spout off a laundry list of "requirements" and say things like "chemistry is very important to me" (i.e., you have to be hot) and "I'm educated and you should be too" (i.e., you better have money) when in real life they don't even offer what they feel they are entitled to in a man...

 

All the women who chase the hot guys online become embittered when they are used for sex and swear there are no good guys out there when they eliminated 90% of the pool to start with because of their "requirements". Then they complain about it all while they keep chasing after those same guys who use them. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Women are classic for that going after the top 5% of Men getting pumped and dumped and then saying all men are shallow jerks who d othat..

 

Maybe lower your standards and realize the hot guy had sex with you becasue men are horny not because youre in his league.

 

As i said its not just the standards online its the arrogance and entitlement..One girl on there ripped me for being 5'8 and she was an older heavier women with a face only a mother could love.

[USMCHokie]

Hokie, here's another way to view it. If someone's garnering a lot of attention from the opposite gender, therefore are highly valued from a mate selection perspective, how is their self-valuation over-inflated?

 

Now, let's change perspectives. What's considered highly attractive can change with social perception from generation to generation, culture to culture. So, rather than gauge externally since societal perceptions aren't constant, isn't it better to gauge internally whereby you make the best of what you've been given genetically and accept yourself for who you are, that no one is universally attractive and not being so, shouldn't be considered a knock on self-esteem?

 

I don't think it's really about self esteem...you can be insecure and still get that feeling of entitlement just because you receive some external attention. I should know...

[Casablanca]

This is more along the lines of what I was getting at. And to make matters worse, I find it incredibly laughable that 95% of women's profiles say something along the lines of: "tired of all the games..." or "looking for a good man for a change" or "why are all the guys here after only one thing..." And then they spout off a laundry list of "requirements" and say things like "chemistry is very important to me" (i.e., you have to be hot) and "I'm educated and you should be too" (i.e., you better have money) when in real life they don't even offer what they feel they are entitled to in a man...

I also love it how most of these people when ever I've sent a message to the type you describe don't even respond when in fact I am an honest guy who has goals, I own a house, have two degrees, have a career, and have a lot of interest beyond sex and sports. Depending on the day I'm an above average to good looking guy...I know my limits in terms of looks as to what I can realistically get (and have gotten) and almost never reach above that. The one's I get responses from come off as actually wanting a nice guy with goals and not ones who just say that

 

I think this is why I've had more luck off line than online....off line they get to see my personality and looks and base interest off that than just my looks and a self description (plus as lame as it may sound, and ive been told this by others too...I'm not super photogenic and I dont use that as some BS excuse)

[Star Gazer]

I don't necessarily agree with your last statement. I'm sure nonphysical traits are more important for women in the long run, but its the physical traits which usually generate the initial interest. Without them, there is no occasion or desire to learn about a person's personality.

 

But notice when you talk about what women online declare themselves to be "entitled to," they rarely say, "a hot guy." Rather, they tend to talk about the guy having a job, car, education, doing things for her, "treating her right" (however she defines it). If a guy doesn't meet THAT threshold, he doesn't have a chance (for these women), no matter how hot he is.

 

Guys don't outright say it in their profiles (or in person), but their first threshold isn't who a woman is (job, how she treats him, etc.), but what she looks like - how hot she is.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've seen this play out IRL too. At a bar, a guy won't give an awesome, funny, charming girl a chance if she's not up to his physical standards (usually pretty high), whereas an average guy can approach a gal and at least have a chance to woo her by explaining (through casual conversation and dropped hints) why he's a catch.

 

Of course, hopefully both sexes go beyond the initial threshold, but those are the initial thresholds that I've observed.

 

Just look at the things both sexes put as preferences. Men will put a body type (and even hair color and race, which tells you their "type"), and choose "any" for education, income, etc., whereas women will put "any" on the physical, but be specific about education, income, etc. preferences.

 

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. Men, by nature, are more visual, and women, by nature, seek out providers.

[verhrzn]

Not even slightly. I'd venture to say that the average guy online is reasonably desirable for the average woman. It's not that the average guy is so undesirable, its that the bar is set so high for what women would consider "desirable" that it eliminates a large majority of average guys who are genuinely good guys.

 

And this bar is the same regardless of what the woman can "offer" herself.

 

Except what I'm pointing out is how are those requirements you specified so high? Is having a job, being good looking, and being educated really such a challenge for the "average guy" to meet?

 

As far as the height thing, guys on this board seem really fixated on blaming women as superficial for judging a guy on his height, but are a-ok with men excluding females based on nothing else but their body type. Why do you say a woman is overvaluing herself for wanting a tall guy, but a guy isn't overvaluing himself for saying he wants a thin woman?

[verhrzn]

But notice when you talk about what women online declare themselves to be "entitled to," they rarely say, "a hot guy." Rather, they tend to talk about the guy having a job, car, education, doing things for her, "treating her right" (however she defines it). If a guy doesn't meet THAT threshold, he doesn't have a chance (for these women), no matter how hot he is.

 

Guys don't outright say it in their profiles (or in person), but their first threshold isn't who a woman is (job, how she treats him, etc.), but what she looks like - how hot she is.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've seen this play out IRL too. At a bar, a guy won't give an awesome, funny, charming girl a chance if she's not up to his physical standards (usually pretty high), whereas an average guy can approach a gal and at least have a chance to woo her by explaining (through casual conversation and dropped hints) why he's a catch.

 

That's also my experience. Generally speaking, ugly guys with a good personality have a very strong chance of getting a girl, just perhaps not online, as it's difficult to convey attitude, humor, and charm unless you're a talented writer. (That's why you see lots of couples in which the woman is pretty darn good looking and the guy is.... uh... not so much. You very rarely see the genders switched.)

 

Ugly guys with ugly personalities... Sorry, neither online OR offline is gonna work out well for you.

 

An ugly girl with a good personality... online they'll just use you for an ego stroke, and off line they'll just ignore you.

[AHardDaysNight]

That's also my experience. Generally speaking, ugly guys with a good personality have a very strong chance of getting a girl, just perhaps not online, as it's difficult to convey attitude, humor, and charm unless you're a talented writer. (That's why you see lots of couples in which the woman is pretty darn good looking and the guy is.... uh... not so much. You very rarely see the genders switched.)

 

Ugly guys with ugly personalities... Sorry, neither online OR offline is gonna work out well for you.

 

An ugly girl with a good personality... online they'll just use you for an ego stroke, and off line they'll just ignore you.

 

You forgot the desperate guys who will date and marry ugly girls, just to not be alone.

[Queen Zenobia]

Except what I'm pointing out is how are those requirements you specified so high? Is having a job, being good looking, and being educated really such a challenge for the "average guy" to meet?

 

As far as the height thing, guys on this board seem really fixated on blaming women as superficial for judging a guy on his height, but are a-ok with men excluding females based on nothing else but their body type. Why do you say a woman is overvaluing herself for wanting a tall guy, but a guy isn't overvaluing himself for saying he wants a thin woman?

 

Well the height thing is grossly exaggerated by some people. Height is not nearly the deal breaker that some make it out to be. But, the thing about height is that there's pretty much nothing one can do about it, whereas with weight one can at least get in better shape (in most cases). They may never be rail thin, but it is generally easier to lose 10-15 pounds than it is to grow a few inches.

 

Everyone should have whatever standards they want to have, but just don't be surprised when it's hard to find exactly what you're looking for. If you want success, you might sometimes have to adjust your list of must haves.

[USMCHokie]

But notice when you talk about what women online declare themselves to be "entitled to," they rarely say, "a hot guy." Rather, they tend to talk about the guy having a job, car, education, doing things for her, "treating her right" (however she defines it). If a guy doesn't meet THAT threshold, he doesn't have a chance (for these women), no matter how hot he is.

 

Guys don't outright say it in their profiles (or in person), but their first threshold isn't who a woman is (job, how she treats him, etc.), but what she looks like - how hot she is.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've seen this play out IRL too. At a bar, a guy won't give an awesome, funny, charming girl a chance if she's not up to his physical standards (usually pretty high), whereas an average guy can approach a gal and at least have a chance to woo her by explaining (through casual conversation and dropped hints) why he's a catch.

 

Of course, hopefully both sexes go beyond the initial threshold, but those are the initial thresholds that I've observed.

 

Just look at the things both sexes put as preferences. Men will put a body type (and even hair color and race, which tells you their "type"), and choose "any" for education, income, etc., whereas women will put "any" on the physical, but be specific about education, income, etc. preferences.

 

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. Men, by nature, are more visual, and women, by nature, seek out providers.

 

I would agree with all of this. And I would also agree with the assertion that men feel more entitled in real life. There were countless times when I was out with my friends and we'd leave a place just because they thought there was no "talent". However, online, I still think women take the cake...

 

By the way, I don't think California is going to be big enough for the both of us...

[USMCHokie]

Well the height thing is grossly exaggerated by some people. Height is not nearly the deal breaker that some make it out to be. But, the thing about height is that there's pretty much nothing one can do about it, whereas with weight one can at least get in better shape (in most cases). They may never be rail thin, but it is generally easier to lose 10-15 pounds than it is to grow a few inches.

 

Everyone should have whatever standards they want to have, but just don't be surprised when it's hard to find exactly what you're looking for. If you want success, you might sometimes have to adjust your list of must haves.

 

I think the obsession with height came with the advent of online dating. Finally, women had a concrete, tangible way to weed out guys...

[Queen Zenobia]

I think the obsession with height came with the advent of online dating. Finally, women had a concrete, tangible way to weed out guys...

 

Well then they make their bed and they'll have to lie in it.

[Content]

But notice when you talk about what women online declare themselves to be "entitled to," they rarely say, "a hot guy." Rather, they tend to talk about the guy having a job, car, education, doing things for her, "treating her right" (however she defines it). If a guy doesn't meet THAT threshold, he doesn't have a chance (for these women), no matter how hot he is.

 

Guys don't outright say it in their profiles (or in person), but their first threshold isn't who a woman is (job, how she treats him, etc.), but what she looks like - how hot she is.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've seen this play out IRL too. At a bar, a guy won't give an awesome, funny, charming girl a chance if she's not up to his physical standards (usually pretty high), whereas an average guy can approach a gal and at least have a chance to woo her by explaining (through casual conversation and dropped hints) why he's a catch.

 

Of course, hopefully both sexes go beyond the initial threshold, but those are the initial thresholds that I've observed.

 

Just look at the things both sexes put as preferences. Men will put a body type (and even hair color and race, which tells you their "type"), and choose "any" for education, income, etc., whereas women will put "any" on the physical, but be specific about education, income, etc. preferences.

 

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. Men, by nature, are more visual, and women, by nature, seek out providers.

 

Women online have strict preferences physically as well

 

AS i said a lot of homely rude women with delusions of grandeur

[Star Gazer]

By the way, I don't think California is going to be big enough for the both of us...

 

CP, eh? Congrats!!