Are Men or Women More Likely to Overvalue Themselves?

[Pyro]

You better not be moving forward with anyone other than CE!!

 

Everything I say on here is all hypothetically speaking of course:p

[torn_curtain]

There were countless times when I was out with my friends and we'd leave a place just because they thought there was no "talent". However, online, I still think women take the cake...

 

By the way, I don't think California is going to be big enough for the both of us...

 

Do you hang out with the cast of Entourage? Who speaks like that?

 

Are you moving to LA? I'm sure you'd fit right in there from how my bf describes it.

Edited August 19, 2011 by torn_curtain

[Sanman]

People value themselves in the dating market based on feedback, even if it is false or superficial feedback. People tend to value themselves based on the hottest person they can get to sleep with them, since average women can easily get hot men to sleep with them, and average men can not get hot women to sleep with them, there's your answer.

 

 

I've talked about this before and I agree with the above statement. I think both men and women can overvalue themselves by looking at incorrect feedback. I have probably done so myself a few times. I've talked about my 'ladder theory' before here and it applies to this. Many people think they tend to deserve the hottest of their date-able range all or most of the time. The truth is we often have a hard time looking in the mirror and making accurate conclusions about our own life than we like to admit. While a person online or in real life may get sex/date/fling from an attractive person, they never filter in the feedback that this person was having a dry spell, not serious about you, using you as one of many, etc. This is true even though we know others who act like this or may even do so ourselves.

 

Have a fwb because to didn't want to get with mr/ms average? Well, mr/ms perfect may just be passing time with you until something better comes along. Yet, even after you are dumped, you continue to measure other suitors/mates against this person never considering that they may have just used you.

 

The truth also depends on experiences. I do this that former 'hotties' may overvalue themselves after they age, gain weight, etc. Additionally, there are subcategories. For example, I consider myself average to above average overall in the general population. However, limiting myself to women of my own ethnicity I seem to be in the top 10-15%. While there are some very attractive women who will not date me, most women only looking within my ethnicity give me a shot. Taller, beefier Asian men, more successful professional black men, and tall latin men are a few examples of groups that are in high demand within an ethnic subculture. Similarly, online dating often turns into shopping and very attractive men will date many average women and use them artificially increasing their demand. These women will get angry about the men, but often not attempt to adjust their expectations and still use such a man for a point of reference. Then again, there are a significant number of women who would prefer to be the mistress of a high powered man to the SO of an average one.

[Mrlonelyone]

Have a fwb because to didn't want to get with mr/ms average? Well, mr/ms perfect may just be passing time with you until something better comes along. Yet, even after you are dumped, you continue to measure other suitors/mates against this person never considering that they may have just used you.

 

It's like the Halle Berry example I have used. Someone who is successful, beautiful, but apparently a bore and a |3itch to live with. Mr/ Mrs Looks Perfect may be a total psycho behind closed doors. Now that you mention it, she is also moving into the category of aged used to be hot woman too.

(Saw a funny "merrie melodie" which touches on this

worth it. Lola bunny overvalues herself.)

 

 

Then again, there are a significant number of women who would prefer to be the mistress of a high powered man to the SO of an average one.

 

Yes there are plenty of women who knowingly choose such a life, there are also 10X as many who honestly delude themselves into thinking that they will replace the wife.

[Sanman]

It's like the Halle Berry example I have used. Someone who is successful, beautiful, but apparently a bore and a |3itch to live with. Mr/ Mrs Looks Perfect may be a total psycho behind closed doors. Now that you mention it, she is also moving into the category of aged used to be hot woman too.

(Saw a funny "merrie melodie" which touches on this

worth it. Lola bunny overvalues herself.)

 

 

Mrlonelyone,

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but follow me...is there any chance that maybe, just maybe, you are not a huge Halle Berry fan?

[D-Lish]

Women from online dating sites definitely overvalue themselves. Part of it comes from the ego boost they get from all the messages they receive every day, but they don't realize that all women on those sites gets tons of messages everyday. I've gone out with a few expecting something at least equal to the average girl I date, but I often am very disappointed. A lot of them never offer to pay on dates and it just reeks of entitlement and self importance. Every girl i've ever been out with from the real world has offered to pay on a date. I think a lot of these women are delusional.

 

Honestly, we know we aren't the only person they've messaged all week- and you can tell from a message and a profile who sends out hundreds of messages playing the odds, and who is more discerning about whom they send a message to.

[Mrlonelyone]

No, I like her movies. She is a woman who has everything on paper but can't hold a steady stable relationship. Just google a bit and you will see the horror stories about living with her.

 

That's the thing people forget. We focus so much on getting the date here at LS that we forget the important part starts after the dates...actually living with the person.

[Mrlonelyone]

Sorry Double posted.

[phineas]

Women from online dating sites definitely overvalue themselves. Part of it comes from the ego boost they get from all the messages they receive every day, but they don't realize that all women on those sites gets tons of messages everyday. I've gone out with a few expecting something at least equal to the average girl I date, but I often am very disappointed. A lot of them never offer to pay on dates and it just reeks of entitlement and self importance. Every girl i've ever been out with from the real world has offered to pay on a date. I think a lot of these women are delusional.

 

Not delusional. They just have "standards"

 

Some do realize that only losers who can't spell are contacting her & start to accept dates but they somehow still think their "settling".

 

But when MR. 6-pack who has a date lined up for every night contacts them, they spread their legs first date then out comes the "If your just looking for sex...." comments on the profile when the guy blocks them the next day.

 

They process "MR 6-pack went out with them" but somehow shift the logic that says "he just wanted sex" & apply it to their filter for average guys only. LOL!

[AlexDP]

I think it just depends on the person. An emotionally adult and healthy person will not be likely to overvalue himself. Mind you, overrating yourself does not necessarily mean you're arrogant, sometimes it actually stems from low or false self esteem. When women overrate themselves, I'd say it's usually because they have built up this facade in order to feel like they are someone. With men the reason is often a bit more shallow, it's more about bragging really. In any case I would never go for someone who overrates OR underrates himself or herself.

[USMCHokie]

But when MR. 6-pack who has a date lined up for every night contacts them, they spread their legs first date then out comes the "If your just looking for sex...." comments on the profile when the guy blocks them the next day.

 

They process "MR 6-pack went out with them" but somehow shift the logic that says "he just wanted sex" & apply it to their filter for average guys only. LOL!

 

Yep...somehow they think that if they can get Mr. 6-pack once, then they should only get Mr. 6-packs...and even if they get played by one, they still crave the esteem boost from getting "chosen" by him...it's a vicious cycle...so unfortunate...

[zengirl]

But no one would date someone who they didn't think was amazing, would they? I mean, not for long. I might go on a first date with a guy thinking, "He seems cute and cool" and not be at that "amazing!" point yet (because it's Date #1), but why would I go out with anyone I thought was "just average."

 

Rather, I think that people who are applying these labels whether they say, "I'm an average guy/girl looking for an average girl/guy," or "I'm hot stuff, and I expect hot stuff" are doing it all wrong. The problem isn't overvaluing (or undervaluing) yourself but it's attempting to place supposedly objective values on something that is highly subjective to the individual.

 

Hypothetically: If I look around a room and say, "There's no one I'd flirt with here," I'm saying something very different than if I say, "There are only ugly guys here." And not just in semantics, but in POV. There could be several great guys there, but maybe they don't do it for me. That only becomes a problem if I persistently cannot find someone to connect with, date, and develop the kind of rapport and relationship I want. And if THAT is a problem, I should look at myself, because I can't change the world. I can only change myself.

 

But I think approaching the world as though people are these labeled beings that fit into perfectly obvious groups is just weird. My friends will often see a guy and think, "He's hot!" and I think, "Eh, not my cuppa" and vice versa. Don't y'all have these experiences?

 

Anyway, my points are three-fold:

 

1. When it comes to looks and many other qualities, leagues are, for the most part, a myth. (I would say socio-economic groups and peer groups are perhaps more clear, but leagues? Not so much.)

 

2. The concept of "value" is the problem. When you're entering into it as a value prospect, you're not seeking out connection in a productive way that's most likely to lead to success.

 

3. What does it matter what other people do? All that matters is, "Is what you're doing working for you?" You'll never really know if most of these people are "overvaluing" themselves, because you don't know what they want or what their results are.

[Sanman]

But no one would date someone who they didn't think was amazing, would they? I mean, not for long. I might go on a first date with a guy thinking, "He seems cute and cool" and not be at that "amazing!" point yet (because it's Date #1), but why would I go out with anyone I thought was "just average."

 

Rather, I think that people who are applying these labels whether they say, "I'm an average guy/girl looking for an average girl/guy," or "I'm hot stuff, and I expect hot stuff" are doing it all wrong. The problem isn't overvaluing (or undervaluing) yourself but it's attempting to place supposedly objective values on something that is highly subjective to the individual.

 

Hypothetically: If I look around a room and say, "There's no one I'd flirt with here," I'm saying something very different than if I say, "There are only ugly guys here." And not just in semantics, but in POV. There could be several great guys there, but maybe they don't do it for me. That only becomes a problem if I persistently cannot find someone to connect with, date, and develop the kind of rapport and relationship I want. And if THAT is a problem, I should look at myself, because I can't change the world. I can only change myself.

 

But I think approaching the world as though people are these labeled beings that fit into perfectly obvious groups is just weird. My friends will often see a guy and think, "He's hot!" and I think, "Eh, not my cuppa" and vice versa. Don't y'all have these experiences?

 

Anyway, my points are three-fold:

 

1. When it comes to looks and many other qualities, leagues are, for the most part, a myth. (I would say socio-economic groups and peer groups are perhaps more clear, but leagues? Not so much.)

 

2. The concept of "value" is the problem. When you're entering into it as a value prospect, you're not seeking out connection in a productive way that's most likely to lead to success.

 

3. What does it matter what other people do? All that matters is, "Is what you're doing working for you?" You'll never really know if most of these people are "overvaluing" themselves, because you don't know what they want or what their results are.

 

See this is where I think men and women differ. Science has shown that men are more likely to agree about the attractiveness of women than women are about the attractiveness of men. For us, there definitely is more of an objective standard. It is not perfect either, but we generally agree. If what you say about men was true, we wouldn't all be trying to hit on the 'hot girl' at the bar because we would disagree. This is not the case usually. Sure there are individual differences and a smart man will use those to his advantage. However, I think your view of this comes from a woman's view of dating. A guy who cannot accurately gauge his attractiveness level and that of women he is considering dating will fair poorly in choosing women approach. People even tend to cluster by looks when choosing friends. I rarely see a huge variety in a group of friends. Sure, again, there may be a bigger girl a cuter face vs a skinnier girl with a plainer face, but both of those would be considered about average. There is no bombshell in the group. Alternatively, I will see a group of beauties together. It makes sense as that keeps the peace no one becomes the object of jealousy quite as much.

[phineas]

But no one would date someone who they didn't think was amazing, would they? I mean, not for long. I might go on a first date with a guy thinking, "He seems cute and cool" and not be at that "amazing!" point yet (because it's Date #1), but why would I go out with anyone I thought was "just average."

 

 

Exactly. however most women online don't even give a guy a 1st date unless he is "HOT".

 

I gave up on it. only overweight women with strong myspace angles contacted me. the rest ignored me. even women with nothing to offer other than apparently their cleavage. POF low quality hook up site. seriously.

 

when I put on the athletic V's or T's & my straight leg jeans & go out.

Women actually come up to me & start talking to me.

 

Blows my mind. Then I notice every other guy my age is either with a chick or just plain fat.

 

So I got no problem getting numbers or dates I just don't go out much & my free time is limited because I got kids on weekends & half the week.

 

Lots of chicks don't want to work around that & almost all of them are younger with no kids.

 

so whatever.

[Kelemort]

...If we're talking overvaluing in terms of looks, men easily win that game. Men typically go for women at or above their level in attractiveness (how often do you see a smokin' hot girl with an average guy? ...How about vice versa? ). Studies are continually rolling out indicating how men are happiest when they feel their partners are more attractive than they are. In my experiences and those of friends...this is generally true.

 

It's as they say - men go predominantly for looks and women go predominantly for status and checkbooks. That's not to say that ALL do, but it plays a role. A woman knows she has her looks to offer, and if they're particularly good...why WOULD she settle for an average-looking guy without any income or a future? It's shallow, certainly, but all dating transactions are shallow at the start.

[Kelemort]

Exactly. however most women online don't even give a guy a 1st date unless he is "HOT".

 

 

So...you're upset because you feel that women are only interested in the 'hottest' guys, yet you're also discriminating based on looks. Why shouldn't women? I can't say for sure what you look like or how 'hot' you are, but I do think that men tend to overvalue their looks. By a lot. They're also going for the hottest girls THEY can find, but then get upset when said girls don't believe they're the hottest that they can find.

 

The dating site in question matters too. I'd expect people on paid services to be far pickier than people on free dating sites. But I also think that people who judge solely or predominantly on those pictures are really missing out. I've gone on dates with guys before who I thought weren't all that attractive...turns out they had other things to offer. And my general rule of thumb is that any date that isn't ideal, unless it's a total disaster, deserves a second date.

 

But, I'm also an OK-AT-BEST woman, so I can't exactly afford to treat the opposite sex like crap. That's something to keep in mind. If you're talking to the cream of the crop, they're not going to have time for you if you aren't their 'level,' so to speak.

 

I can't tell you how many times I had men just grind away at me after simply sending a message like 'hello.' The responses were great, like, "Don't talk to me, you're too fat," or "Sorry, you're too ugly." Seriously, these were some of the responses I got. But everyone's tea is different - there were also many men interested in me.

[carhill]

It struck me how unique romantic relations are compared to nearly all other relations. That stirring of the loins thing.

 

I'm trying to apply this 'value' thing to other relationships and am failing miserably. I find equality and equity have multiple paths of synergy, where in dating those paths tend to be myopic.

 

Example: Most of my close male friends are far wealthier and some are far better looking (IMO) than myself, yet they value our friendships greatly and have told me so repeatedly. We find synergy in our interactions, interests and philosophies of life. I would say the majority have been married to the same 'average' women (can't think of one 'trophy wife') for decades, most of whom helped the men build their wealth or were partners in its growth. We're all just people living our lives, facing joy, sadness, sickness and death, and coming together as humans. To me, that's the true value of living.

 

TBH, when getting to know someone, whether that be a woman as a potential romantic partner or anyone as a friend, when I get a whiff of that 'value' in any obvious way, in that it seeks to segregate rather than unify, I look for the nearest exit. I'd rather spend that time with people who accept and embrace us as equals and humans. YMMV.

[Sanman]

...If we're talking overvaluing in terms of looks, men easily win that game. Men typically go for women at or above their level in attractiveness (how often do you see a smokin' hot girl with an average guy? ...How about vice versa? ). Studies are continually rolling out indicating how men are happiest when they feel their partners are more attractive than they are. In my experiences and those of friends...this is generally true.

 

It's as they say - men go predominantly for looks and women go predominantly for status and checkbooks. That's not to say that ALL do, but it plays a role. A woman knows she has her looks to offer, and if they're particularly good...why WOULD she settle for an average-looking guy without any income or a future? It's shallow, certainly, but all dating transactions are shallow at the start.

 

 

See, I don't think this is men who exclusively overvalue. A great provider is more valued by women and can get a hotter woman if he is willing to pay the bills. That is simply being aware of the fact that men and women value different things. However, if you are not a great provider or great looking then you do overvalue yourself.

[zengirl]

See this is where I think men and women differ. Science has shown that men are more likely to agree about the attractiveness of women than women are about the attractiveness of men. For us, there definitely is more of an objective standard. It is not perfect either, but we generally agree. If what you say about men was true, we wouldn't all be trying to hit on the 'hot girl' at the bar because we would disagree. This is not the case usually. Sure there are individual differences and a smart man will use those to his advantage. However, I think your view of this comes from a woman's view of dating. A guy who cannot accurately gauge his attractiveness level and that of women he is considering dating will fair poorly in choosing women approach. People even tend to cluster by looks when choosing friends. I rarely see a huge variety in a group of friends. Sure, again, there may be a bigger girl a cuter face vs a skinnier girl with a plainer face, but both of those would be considered about average. There is no bombshell in the group. Alternatively, I will see a group of beauties together. It makes sense as that keeps the peace no one becomes the object of jealousy quite as much.

 

The men I know don't all like precisely the same type either. I'm not saying women or men cannot be more "objectively attractive" (I think both can). I'm essentially saying that unless you're looking to crack into movies or something, that type of THINKING is irrelevant. If you are just looking to score the hottest chick you can find, or trying to assess some objective value of a woman to determine who you date (whether it's solely looks or looks, plus other things) you're not going to find a happy relationship, IMO, and I've observed this with men as well as women.

 

Obviously, I've only ever been a woman, but my male friends don't go around deciding who to date by some number/grouping system. Nor do they all find the same girl equally attractive/unattractive, or try to examine themselves to see who's on their "level" that they "should" find attractive. And most of my male friends? Do pretty well in dating. Certainly better than LS would have me believe men do in relationships.

 

I rarely go into a place and see everyone trying to hit on 'the hot girl' so I'm not sure what you mean by that phenomenon. I think who men hit on is actually more determined by apparent availability/receptiveness (coupled with some attraction, yes) than degrees of hotness.

 

It struck me how unique romantic relations are compared to nearly all other relations. That stirring of the loins thing.

 

I'm trying to apply this 'value' thing to other relationships and am failing miserably. I find equality and equity have multiple paths of synergy, where in dating those paths tend to be myopic.

 

Example: Most of my close male friends are far wealthier and some are far better looking (IMO) than myself, yet they value our friendships greatly and have told me so repeatedly. We find synergy in our interactions, interests and philosophies of life. I would say the majority have been married to the same 'average' women (can't think of one 'trophy wife') for decades, most of whom helped the men build their wealth or were partners in its growth. We're all just people living our lives, facing joy, sadness, sickness and death, and coming together as humans. To me, that's the true value of living.

 

TBH, when getting to know someone, whether that be a woman as a potential romantic partner or anyone as a friend, when I get a whiff of that 'value' in any obvious way, in that it seeks to segregate rather than unify, I look for the nearest exit. I'd rather spend that time with people who accept and embrace us as equals and humans. YMMV.

 

An interesting POV, and I think one that would serve anyone well.

[Woggle]

It depends. There are some women who look somewhat decent but are pretty much horrible who treat men like crap and contribute nothing positive to a man's life yet still think they are a catch who deserves the very best.

[Yellow_Duck'y]

...when it comes to dating...and is it different between online and "real life" dating...? Just browsing around on online dating sites, I couldn't help but notice how much women overvalued themselves and what they believe they are entitled to...I guess all that male attention would inflate one's self-perception...

 

Since I don't look at men's profiles, what do you ladies think about how guys value themselves to women?

 

On a separate note, I used to think online dating favored women...I no longer believe that...it definitely favors the most physically attractive men...

 

I think online dating is vastly different versus meeting someone in real life. If you're shopping for fruit in a supermarket, most people will be drawn to and want the freshest, best looking apple.

 

Online dating serves as sort of a buffet in that sense.

 

If I were to see two attractive men in real life, but one was more aesthetically pleasing to the eye, I may be drawn to the better looking one at first sight, but after interacting with both, my physical attraction may begin to shift.

 

That is a result of the psychology of attraction.

 

Lust, then attraction, then attachment. Body language and non-verbal communication makes up a large percentage when fancying someone. So in terms of people being overly selective of beauty initially, I think it is a natural human response.

 

Now if people refuse to date anything less than a "10", well, people are attracted to what they are attracted to. I am sure there are underlying reasons for that, who knows what they are.

[phineas]

So...you're upset because you feel that women are only interested in the 'hottest' guys, yet you're also discriminating based on looks. Why shouldn't women? I can't say for sure what you look like or how 'hot' you are, but I do think that men tend to overvalue their looks. By a lot. They're also going for the hottest girls THEY can find, but then get upset when said girls don't believe they're the hottest that they can find.

 

The dating site in question matters too. I'd expect people on paid services to be far pickier than people on free dating sites. But I also think that people who judge solely or predominantly on those pictures are really missing out. I've gone on dates with guys before who I thought weren't all that attractive...turns out they had other things to offer. And my general rule of thumb is that any date that isn't ideal, unless it's a total disaster, deserves a second date.

 

But, I'm also an OK-AT-BEST woman, so I can't exactly afford to treat the opposite sex like crap. That's something to keep in mind. If you're talking to the cream of the crop, they're not going to have time for you if you aren't their 'level,' so to speak.

 

I can't tell you how many times I had men just grind away at me after simply sending a message like 'hello.' The responses were great, like, "Don't talk to me, you're too fat," or "Sorry, you're too ugly." Seriously, these were some of the responses I got. But everyone's tea is different - there were also many men interested in me.

 

HUH? who said I was upset? I can care less. Just relaying my experience of a whole month on POF. Like I said, I do just fine in real life. (well, getting dates & hooking up.) actually dating towards a relationship not-so-much. I meet a lot of flakes & low quality women in my age-group.

 

I sent a message, comment or joke about something in their profile & mention similar interests.

 

I keept it short. not "hi". I don't even respond to txt messages that are one word most of the time so I don't expect someone online to do the same with me.

 

They didn't respond? that's fine, I sent messages to a few other women plus I meet women in real life so I don't need to chase. if their interested they respond if they don't I assume their not.

 

I honestly don't take it too seriously.

 

It's when women go on 4 dates with me then *poof* or tell me they "just want to be friends" that I get annoyed because they always impress upon me that their not interested in anyone else & don't want me to be talking to other women.

 

but, they are still shopping online. it's why I got out of that scene.

 

I might try Match.com in the fall. A lot more women.

[Sanman]

The men I know don't all like precisely the same type either. I'm not saying women or men cannot be more "objectively attractive" (I think both can). I'm essentially saying that unless you're looking to crack into movies or something, that type of THINKING is irrelevant. If you are just looking to score the hottest chick you can find, or trying to assess some objective value of a woman to determine who you date (whether it's solely looks or looks, plus other things) you're not going to find a happy relationship, IMO, and I've observed this with men as well as women.

 

Obviously, I've only ever been a woman, but my male friends don't go around deciding who to date by some number/grouping system. Nor do they all find the same girl equally attractive/unattractive, or try to examine themselves to see who's on their "level" that they "should" find attractive. And most of my male friends? Do pretty well in dating. Certainly better than LS would have me believe men do in relationships.

 

I rarely go into a place and see everyone trying to hit on 'the hot girl' so I'm not sure what you mean by that phenomenon. I think who men hit on is actually more determined by apparent availability/receptiveness (coupled with some attraction, yes) than degrees of hotness.

 

It is more subtle than that. As I alluded to before, there are always individual differences. Smart men take advantage of those differences. For example, I find brunettes more attractive and like cute brunettes more than blondes, gingers, etc. Therefore, it would be smarter of me to approach a cute brunette over the gorgeous blonde (who is the only one i am attracted to). Men always notice the beautiful woman in the room and try and figure out how to hit on her. It is simply that most never get the courage to go through with it. I have friends who have gotten the 'hot girl' and it never really works out. They just don't 'fit' with the group. Part of this is that hot is often manufactured in modern day life (expensive makeup, prada shoes, and a dolce & gabbana dress) and my friends are not the type to prioritize this. Perhaps, as you say, it does not matter. However, I have yet to encounter a normal, healthy couple where both members are not similar in attractiveness (though I do know several unhealthy couples).

[zengirl]

It is more subtle than that. As I alluded to before, there are always individual differences. Smart men take advantage of those differences. For example, I find brunettes more attractive and like cute brunettes more than blondes, gingers, etc. Therefore, it would be smarter of me to approach a cute brunette over the gorgeous blonde (who is the only one i am attracted to). Men always notice the beautiful woman in the room and try and figure out how to hit on her. It is simply that most never get the courage to go through with it. I have friends who have gotten the 'hot girl' and it never really works out. They just don't 'fit' with the group. Part of this is that hot is often manufactured in modern day life (expensive makeup, prada shoes, and a dolce & gabbana dress) and my friends are not the type to prioritize this. Perhaps, as you say, it does not matter. However, I have yet to encounter a normal, healthy couple where both members are not similar in attractiveness (though I do know several unhealthy couples).

 

I think your view of dating is perhaps highly skewed by living in NYC, Sanman.

 

I assume men notice lots of beautiful women, so I don't doubt that they notice various versions of "hot" when they see it, though I don't think everyone I know (male or female) would agree on who the hottest person in the room was. None of my friends are the kind of manufactured beauty/brandhounds, nor are they common at the places I go either (I mean, to some degree, yes, the gals mostly wear makeup and the guys aren't exactly turning up in burlap sacks or even just whatever---and you can tell when they spend time on their hair, ha!---but think way toned down from what you said)

 

I find women, more than men, try to find validation and see if other people think someone is hot. My male friends think a girl is hot if she's hot to them, but they wouldn't all agree. Granted, someone very attractive (objectively) is going to be attractive to a larger pool, but I don't see a lot of people in relationships caring about how objectively attractive their SO is.

 

If a guy goes into a place and sees 10 girls he finds attractive, my money is on him going up to the one who gives him the most "Hey come over" signals, not the most objectively hottest if a panel were to vote (unless they are one in the same). It's harder to say with women, because so many women refuse to really approach and aren't even very aware of their "Hey come over" signals and go way to subtle.

[Sanman]

I think your view of dating is perhaps highly skewed by living in NYC, Sanman.

 

I assume men notice lots of beautiful women, so I don't doubt that they notice various versions of "hot" when they see it, though I don't think everyone I know (male or female) would agree on who the hottest person in the room was. None of my friends are the kind of manufactured beauty/brandhounds, nor are they common at the places I go either (I mean, to some degree, yes, the gals mostly wear makeup and the guys aren't exactly turning up in burlap sacks or even just whatever---and you can tell when they spend time on their hair, ha!---but think way toned down from what you said)

 

I find women, more than men, try to find validation and see if other people think someone is hot. My male friends think a girl is hot if she's hot to them, but they wouldn't all agree. Granted, someone very attractive (objectively) is going to be attractive to a larger pool, but I don't see a lot of people in relationships caring about how objectively attractive their SO is.

 

If a guy goes into a place and sees 10 girls he finds attractive, my money is on him going up to the one who gives him the most "Hey come over" signals, not the most objectively hottest if a panel were to vote (unless they are one in the same). It's harder to say with women, because so many women refuse to really approach and aren't even very aware of their "Hey come over" signals and go way to subtle.

 

 

That is possible. However, I haven't only dated/lived in NYC. The reason I brought up manufactured is because a girl that has not down these things will not look as attractive even though she can be. I had a very cute tomboyish ex who hated to dress up. Months into the relationship she dressed up for a wedding and I was knocked on my ass by how beautiful she looked. The point is that my friends are not into the expensive stuff either. The girls who are and are brought in by dating my male friends really do not fit and it can cause relationship problems. See I don't think men or women are that different in what they want looks wise. Men don't all want the hottest girl in the room, but looks do matter. A ot guys want the cute girl who doesn't get hit on all the time because they hate the constant competition of other guys hitting on their girl. Like I said, there are personal differences in who thinks who is hotter, but (and I hate the number scale) one guy's 10 is another guy's 8 not another guy's 5. There is a general consensus on these things. The point is that most guys I know can admit this. Even guys who are married can admit their wife is not the hottest girl they ever dated. They just recognize that looks aren't the only important thing after a train wreck or two.