I Still Love Him and I Am Working On Not Being The Other Woman

[istilllovehim]

We're back together for now. Just thought I would start a new topic because I'm tired of having to go through 5 pages to read your reply. So here's what has happened.

 

Friday, I went home from work. I sat home and was trying my best to stay there and not go look for him. Anyway, I thought he was at home with his wife. Well she called me around 8 and she asked if he was with me because he was at his uncles only 2 blocks from my house. I told her no, and I wanted to know why he wasn't picking up his stuff from my house. I had half of his clothes. She said she didn't know. He had just been sitting around her house not really talking to her and telling her he was so confused. She and I talked for an hour. OMG, you would not believe how much alike we are. What is the deal with that? We agreed to let him make his choice with no pressure. I told her that if he chose to be with her, then I would envy what she has but I would let them be. I also said that if he chose me, that she would hate me and it would just be hell anyway. She said she wouldn't hate me. She kept making a reference about how she feels like that woman in the bible who's baby was going to be torn in half. I read the bible but I am not familiar with that story but I am going to check on it. I told her I wanted to go find him, but I was going to sit home. She was too. So within 30 minutes, I went for a ride around town. I drove by his uncles and he wasn't there so I went inside to talk to his uncle, get some advise. She showed up 15 minutes later and we all just sat there and talked. She told me she was going to go looking for him and wanted to know if I wanted to go with her. I told her no. She went to another town looking and about 15 minutes later I was there looking too. I was worried because he doesn't drink and he was drinking that night. Anyway, we didn't find him and she said she was going to go home. She said she already told him that if he didn't come home to her that night, she was going to divorce him. I went back to his uncles and I sat there and waited. Finally he pulled up, I went outside and told him that I wanted to know if he made his choice yet. He said he did and he wanted to be with me. We talked for a while and then I went home. I told him to come when he wanted and so he was there within 10 minutes. I asked him if he was going to sit at my house and think of her, he said "no, because I sat at her house and thought of you". Well we made up that night. I told him that I promised myself that if he did this again, that I was through. And I am going to stick to that promise!!

 

She called Saturday and obviously she knew his choice. She told him that she was going to continue packing all of his things, that he forced her to file for divorce. She asked him "Are you sure you're ready for this?" And he said "Yes". He went and picked up the kids and his stuff. She sent over some toys that she said we needed to keep at my house. It seems as though she is going to accept it although I know she is going to be up and down about it. We kept the kids overnight. Sunday he took the baby home and we took his 3 yr old and my 6 yr old and went to the river. We had a good time. I asked him why he loved me. He replied "Your smile, your eyes, the way you carry yourself, the way you treat others, and how kind hearted you are". So right now we are back together and it feels so right. I hope it will last but if not, I will pick my silly butt up off of the ground and I will move on.

[Dulce_Angel_Whispers]

Glad to see (or hear) that he came to his senses!

[miz_barby]

i posted on your other one but yeah glad to see you started a new post! Glad to hear that your man made the right choice...I think he probably just needed time to get his head straight!

[Dulce_Angel_Whispers]

It ALWAYS seems to be the scorned wife whose man has had an affair who has the nasty comments!

[istilllovehim]

It sure does. However, she doesn't seem to want to understand that every situation is unique. I know what I am doing with him is partially wrong. I know I should wait until they divorce. The wife has called me twice today asking me to bring her some divorce papers (I used to work for an attorney and still have access to them). So they are in the process. What the wife understands is that she screwed up badly when she cheated and she understands that MM cant fully trust her ever again. She says she cant be his wife so she will be the best friend he'll ever need. I am just going to continue to support both of them. She knows I am not evil, that I just happen to love the same man as her. A man who is actually her husband but not by heart anymore. She already burned that bridge.

[Debster]

It's your life and your decision. Sadly though, I thought that maybe, just maybe my posts would have had an effect on you.

 

I'm sorry to say you proved me right.

[istilllovehim]

Still together and still doing good. I have done alot of thinking and I believe I may have found the cause of my emotional attachment to men. I know this sounds crazy, but I had an absent father from the time I was about 6. I latched myself onto my oldest brother who was my 4 years older than me. Our mother worked all the time so it was always his responsibility to take care of me. When I turned 11 and my parents finally divorced after a long separation, he decided to move to Louisiana and live with my grandparents. That left me with my other brother who was only 2 years older than me. It became his responsibility to take care of me. He was my brother/father figure/ best friend and role model. We spent day in and day out together. Mostly fighting until I turned 15. Thats when he became my best friend and my role model. When I was 18 he moved away to live in Louisiana in the same town as my oldest brother. So that left me with my mom here in Missouri and them there. As I mentioned earlier, I moved to Indiana and immediately latched myself onto my ex-husband. It seems like I am trying to fill a void in my life. I am not a crier and I try to cry all the time to make myself feel better. But if I just think about how much I miss my brother, the one 2 yrs older than me, I can cry instantly. To me that means that I have a lot of unsettled emotion. I am sure a lot of siblings go through that but I don't think I ever let myself go through the grieving process of losing him, I did lose him in a way, not death, but still loss. He to me, is the greatest guy on earth and no one EVER can even compare. He is so kind and understanding and mellow about everything. I think that I really have to deal with that issue. I really don't know how to deal with it after all of these years. I kinda feel stupid bringing this up because I was raised that you deal with it and then its done. Anytime I had emotion, my mother told me to grow up. She always said that I was borrowing trouble. Is there anyone else out there who has these same issues? The thing about my MM is that he is so kind, like my brother. He reminds me of him so much. They always say that most women marry someone just like their father, and my brother was basically my father. I feel relieved to finally be seeing a light in this dark tunnel of confusion. Maybe I can sort out my emotions and lead a happy loving life with a loving man who is willing to give me as much as I am to give him. Even if it isn't my MM.

[Debster]

Based on this last post, I highly suggest counselling. Not to help you in this relationship but to deal with your childhood. I'm sorry you are going through this but I do see it as a breakthrough.

 

I don't know what the status is in the states for free/subsidized counselling but I think you should look into it.

 

Your current priorities are all out of whack. You seem to be too focused (almost obsessed) with this married man and his wife - where is he, who is he with, etc... You need to focus on YOUR life. Spend your energy 1) re-building and examining who you are and 2) spending time with your child. Your married man needs to move WAY down the priority list. Personally, I say dump his a*s. But I don't think you are ready to do that yet.

[miz_barby]

I hope that you get things worked out! If in the end things don't work out with this relationship at least you're starting to reconize why you're co-dependent. I think we all have a touch of that in us. I too grew up without my father and just as we started getting to know each other better (he was in and out of my life more out than in) he died of a heart attack. I never had a big brother though it may have helped if I did. I think most of us in the situation of lacking the older male role model end up with either slightly older abusive men or men who we can "cling" to. Of course this is just my opinion!

I tended to push people away out of fear of them abandoning me, I pushed them away before they could hurt me or I clung to the as*holes that seemed to just want to have me at their convience!

Anyway working on whatever issues you may have will help you have more healthy positive relationships in the future no matter who they're with.

I'm glad to hear she wants to file for divorce hopefully she will follow through with it and hopefully things will stay on the positive end for all of ya'll!

[istilllovehim]

Okay, so its been almost a week since I have posted but I have taken a lot of time to myself to sort out my feelings and thoughts. It has been a blessing because I feel much stronger now. The one thing I take pride in is how I am strong. I always say "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger". Well so much has happened, and I still have a lot of sorting to do but I am ready.

 

Friday, I had to take the day off from work for a doctor appointment. My friend who I grew up with and practically lived at her house, called and told me her mother died that morning. So I was really upset, I considered this woman a mother to me when I was younger and she counted me and my brother as her children. She will surely be missed. Anyway, the wife called and she actually asked if I was okay. She was so caring. I have found some respect for her. She was actually caring about me. MM came home and ended up going to her house for about 2 hours to see the kids. He stayed too long but I never complain because he wants to spend time with the kids.

 

Saturday, he went to work and I spend much of the day talking to his wife. She was telling me everything that goes on at her house. She still says that she gives him oral sex and they have sex. She asked me if he ever kissed me and of course he does. She said he never kisses her. She said he is not affectionate and they would not have sex if she didn't just jump on him. I knew that she could have been lying but I decided it was time that I believe her. He came home from work and I was leaving to go to the visitation for my friends mom. He told me he loved me. I didn't even bring up what she told me. Well he watched the kids while I was gone. When I got home, she called and wanted the kids so I told him to take them home. He told me he was going to be right back. So 15 minutes later she called and told me that he grabbed 2 beers from her house and that she didn't think he was coming back to my house. So I drove up town and bought a 1/2 pint of Jim Bean and got drunk alone. We stayed on the phone for 2 hours. Finally we decided to go find him together and confront him. So she drove over to the house, and we loaded up all the kids and drove around for 2 1/2 hours and finally found him driving around on gravel roads and drinking.

 

She told him she was through and so did I. I didn't want to see him except when he was to come to the house and get his stuff. I told him I had a lot to say and he was going to listen. So I went home. A friend came over and watched my child and I went to his uncles. We ended up driving by their house and he was there. She called me first thing in the morning and told me that he came there and fell asleep on the couch. She put him on the phone with me and he finally admitted to sleeping with us both. He told me he was truly sorry and that he loved me. He begged me to take him back. That he knew he loved me but didn't realize how much until that moment. The moment he lost me. So I told him that I could forgive him and trust him one last time but he had to file for divorce. I wanted to be his wife and the mother of his children. He said "You don't know how much that means to me". She listened the whole time. She heard him begging for me back. So they worked on the divorce papers yesterday. (I used to work for a divorce attorney so I had the paperwork and gave to her sister last week.) She said he went to bed and she couldn't do anything to get him up. So she called me and said she couldn't get him up, told me to talk to him and he got up and talked to me. She said that proved that he loved me, he does anything I ask. (I had asked him to stay there for a few days and give me time to sort my feelings out).

 

Well last night I finally called him and asked him to come over and talk to me. I wanted him to come home, I missed him. He said okay. So I called her about 10 and asked him if he was coming. She said that he had just left to go to his grandma's and see if I still wanted him to come home. She told me that she tried to have sex with him all day but he refused. He told her he wanted to make things right for me. He truly loved me and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. Then she proceeded to tell me that she wanted to give me her kids. She wants her children to have a mother and father who loves each other. I told her she was talking crazy, that those are her children and I could never or would never even try to take her place. She told me that she was going to die and that she knew I would take good care of her kids. She said she was sick in the head and her children needed a good mother. I started telling her what a good mother she is, that she is just upset. Then MM called and I put her on hold. I told her to call her and talk to her, she was talking crazy. So he did. He sat there on the phone with her and listened to her tell their 3 yr old that I was going to be his new mommy and that she would be an angel in the sky watching over him. She was telling her 3 yr old that she was going to die!! The poor kid. And she was screaming at them, making them cry. MM called me and told me. I asked him to go over there and stay with her and the kids for the night and make sure she didn't hurt herself or scare the children. So he did. He called me today and said she took a lot of pills last night and she still is messed up today. But she did call a mental hospital and talked to them. She has agreed to go in and get some help. He is supposed to call me when he gets back. I told him that I probably needed to stay away from them for a while but he says that she is just trying to drive a wedge between us. This is her last resort. He still loves me and he is going to try to find a way to be with me. She called me and I told her that I was proud of her for getting help. She said that she knows he loves me and that he is just there on suicide watch.

 

I don't know what to do. If I stay with him and she kills herself... I do not want to be responsible for her death. But we love each other, can we ever be together? Is he ever going to be truly faithful to me? Is it going to be like this forever? I am still sorting...

[Dulce_Angel_Whispers]

Please you have to understand that she is ill and no matter what neither you or MM can be responsible for her actions! She is sick and needs help or is just a horrible selfish attention seeker! I think she needs real help and no matter rather you are with him or not she will always be ill and the kids do need a stable enviorment!

[Chrissy21]

Girl, that is some crazy stuff. But it seems as if your MM has finally come to his senses, although it has to be hard to be able to forgive him for sleeping with the both of you. If I were you, I'd probably forgive him too. When your in love it is easy to be forgiving because you just want to be happy.

 

I'm glad your MM has finally decided on getting a divorce. Mine hasn't as I suspect he never will. If he does it will be a really big suprise to me. Read my post for my update on my relationship. I was pretty sad and lonely this weekend so I can kinda relate to how your MM's wife took all of those pills. Sometimes I want to do that but then I start to realize that he isn't worth committing suicide over no matter how much I love him. I'm stonger than that.

 

I sure you are probably really estatic to a certain point. If I were you I would probably be. Expect for the wife trying to commit suicide. But you have to know that your not responsible for that.

 

Good Luck

[istilllovehim]

How can I not be responsible? I got involved with her husband. She had to watch him fall in love with me all over again. When he sees me, he sees her faults and that makes him love her less. She has kids that she needs to be strong for and if I really love him and his kids, I need to give her that chance. The problem is, each time I do that, she calls me and tells me to call him because he is so depressed and she doesn't want to see him that way. She tells me that he loves me. Sunday, she said he wouldn't get up for her or the kids. He was just laying there depressed. That is why she called me. She said that she was testing him. She said "I am going to go tell him you are on the phone and see if he gets up". Which he did for me.

 

She said she wished she had never told me that he was sleeping with us both. He wont touch her now, he's supposed to be making things right. She said she could continue to live in this situation with me involved forever. I cant! I know that he has to be looking at her today either feeling "Wow, she is making an effort, what a woman" or "Look at how crazy she is". I don't know anymore how to feel. I am still sorting...

[Chrissy21]

First of all, that is crazy that she would be willing to stay married even if you were still involved with her husband. What kind of marriage is that? To be honest she sounds a little bit crazy to me. Maybe she loves him that much, but I would think the jealousy would eat her alive. Wouldn't eat you alive? Didn't it eat you alive when you found out that he was sleeping with the both of you?

 

Secondly, I don't think that you are responsible if she does commit suicide. That is not to say that your not going to feel that way, because any normal person would. But it is more your MM's fault than yours. He is the one that put you in this situation. Maybe you could have said no and walked away before anything even began between the two of you, but when he allowed you to fall in love with him and when he did the same it became his responsibilty to do something about his failing marriage.

 

Third, it must be a trait of a married man to lie in bed all day and be depressed when they realize the mess they have created. My MM does this all of the time. Mostly, on the weekends. He will literally stay in bed all weekend and never eat or drink a thing. Like fasting is going to somehow make his problems go away.

 

It is not your fault. None of it is. I mean I know that you and I both have to take responsibility for some of it. But why does the MM never have to take responsiblity for their actions? It makes me so angry that they put all of the weight on our shoulders. Just like my MM made me deal with his crazy mom all on my own. And his mom is crazy, just like your MM's wife is. His mom told him the other day that her dog was talking to her. That's crazy.

[istilllovehim]

She actually thought the dog was talking to her.... whew! She is crazy! I think my MM's wife just has a lot of issues. I hope hospitalization does help her become a stronger woman. Her mother is bi-polar and has really messed the wife up. She is the oldest of 3. I guess the Wife is going to be tested for bi-polar while there. I am not even sure if there is a test. My dad is bi-polar and he said they tested his lithium level but I heard that isn't true. I don't know really.

 

What if she finally does decide to kill herself and decides that she wants to take me out too? I have been thinking about that all day. I think I would! But I'm not crazy enough to kill myself or anyone else. What if she walks right up in my house and blows me away? I am actually getting worried now. I do not want my son to have to deal with losing me. I do not want to die. What kind of situation did I get myself into? I love this man but I live for my son.

 

If it is possible that she will kill me or herself, I am out of this relationship. I guess I will have to learn again how to live without the love of my life. I hate this. I sometimes wish I had never met this man! I guess then I would have never know true love and wouldn't know what I am missing out on.

[Dulce_Angel_Whispers]

When he sees me he sees her faults and that makes him love her less"

 

 

 

 

 

Once again I have to ask how can it be your fault? I understand it would hurt her to see him fall in love with someone else but in no way can you place the blame on yourself! Neither of you caused what happened between the two of them so she is the one to blame for her short comings in their relationship! I say "STOP beating yourself up and just be happy"

[Debster]

When are you going to get this into your head that what you are doing is not only destroying you - but also your son. While you may choose to put yourself in this ridiculous circus of a situation, your son did not make that choice. Don't fool yourself into believing that this will have no effect on your son. Look at what you are teaching him about love and marriage. Look at what you are teaching him about relationships and how to treat a woman. Look at what you are teaching him about self-respect and doing what is right. Look at the male role models you are providing for him. Not only does he have a father who is in jail but the other male influence in his life is a liar and a cheater.

 

What kind of future are your creating for your son?

 

Stop thinking about yourself and this @#$@ up sorry excuse for a man. Stop thinking about his psycho wife. THINK ABOUT YOUR SON.

[miz_barby]

Hey Istilllovehim! Sounds like a lot has changed and that obviously all has not been good. Sorry to hear that MM had been a dog but at least he was caught.

Ultimately no matter what any of us say here on our posts you only you can decide what is best for you & your son. I hope that things work out for you and that they get easier, it seems no matter who or where you are (I mean this is general) life seems to be filled with more hardships than enjoyable times but then again they say that's what makes us stronger.....Just keep your head up and keep us updated.

[VivianLee]

What if she finally does decide to kill herself and decides that she wants to take me out too? I have been thinking about that all day. I think I would! But I'm not crazy enough to kill myself or anyone else. What if she walks right up in my house and blows me away? I am actually getting worried now. I do not want my son to have to deal with losing me. I do not want to die. What kind of situation did I get myself into? I love this man but I live for my son.

 

Read this 1 billion times if you have to....YOU SAID IT YOURSELF....if you mean this and you read it and believe, then the next time you post, it won't be "he said he loves me and my eyes so I let his drinking, two timing, married to a possibly murdering wife self back in the house"....gosh I sound mean but if you let him back after this realization (and all the other crap) then I don't know short of being killed or your son being injured what will get your attention....if you get back with him, you won't have to worry about me posting.....I won't be able to read another post concerning this...

[istilllovehim]

I am just sick of this whole damn situation... I got what I deserved though, loving a married man. This woman is crazy and dangerous, I have to get out!!! MM told me that the hospital put her on medication for schizofrenia (sp?), I am guessing that they think she is or they wouldn't medicate her for it. I know a schizo, he's dangerous and if she is anything like him, she's dangerous too. Oh I am so sad about this. I just want to cry because now I have to find a way to push him out of my life. But screw him, he should be protecting me. She is telling him that she wants to kill me. I wonder what he says to her? Does he protect me? He's a wimp to her. She's already taken every bit of strength he has so how can he protect me.

 

The last two nights he stayed at the house with me. Of course he had the kids with him. Last night she told him to come to my house. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea since she is in the hospital. I mean man, what kind of man is shacked up with his girlfriend while his wife is in the hospital? The only way I see any sense of that is since he has been living with me since March 20th. He may just be coming home since my house has been his home for the past 2 months. But she left me a message on my voice mail this morning and it said:

 

"Hello, Hello. This is ____. The used to be mother of my kids, the used to be wife of my husband. But you've taken that over now so I hope the kids are getting used to being at your house because I know your getting used to f&*king my husband.

 

She sounded so cold. There was no emotion in her voice at all other than hate and anger. I keep forgetting that she was the one who broke up the marriage by sleeping with her brother in law. She seems to have forgotten that too. She sees me as the woman who ruined her world. Maybe I am.

 

I don't know what to do. I love him.

[Dulce_Angel_Whispers]

Too bad you two are in this situation...maybe you should get out of the relationship, unfortunatley it doesn't sound like you two can pack up his kids and your son and move away from this whole mess. Have you ever asked him if he defends you? Even if he does it is probably to no avail because it sounds like she has it set in her mind that you are the only one to blame. In some of your other posts you mentioned driving around in the car with her looking for him....if I were you I would Never do that again! I would stay as far away from her as I could.

[Debster]

This woman is crazy and dangerous, I have to get out!!!

So get off or your as* and do it. Stop writing about it. What is it going to take - her doing something to hurt you and your child?

 

I just want to cry because now I have to find a way to push him out of my life.

 

You should have kicked him out of your life long before this. This shouldn't make you want to cry. It should make you get the reserve to kick this scumbag out of your life and your son's life for good.

 

She is telling him that she wants to kill me. I wonder what he says to her? Does he protect me? He's a wimp to her. She's already taken every bit of strength he has so how can he protect me.

 

Your priorities are so messed up. Instead of realizing that your life and your child's life is in danger, you are concerned about whether or not he protects you.

 

My god, I feel so sorry for your child. If you don't get off your butt and do something to get yourself and your son out of this situation I'm afraid either you'll both end up injured (or dead) or you'll raise a psycho-child where he loses all respect for his mother, thinks it is ok to be treated like crap, has no respect for marriage and that if you threaten and bully people you'll get what you want. This is going to have consequences on his life - or do you not care?

 

This is no longer about you having fallen in love with a married man. This is about you putting yourself and your son in a deadly situation. I sure hope the boinking was worth it.

 

I can't wait for a politican that makes people have to apply for the right to breed.

[istilllovehim]

Debster, you say that but what if she is just putting on an act to scare me away. She has always manipulated people all of her life with her threats and has always got what she wanted. My dad is a manic depressant and said that he really does not believe that she will follow through with her threats. He said now that once they have her medicines straightened out that she will live a relatively normal life, or as normal as a manic can. My dad said he went through the same thing as her. I asked him to talk to her and he said yes. I told her and she seemed to agree to go with me to my dads and talk to him when she gets out. It may make it easier for her to find someone who can relate. She told me that she cant quit thinking, she thinks too much. My dad said its like you have a million thoughts in your head every second and you cant see what's real and what's not. She almost started to cry when I told her that because that is how she feels. They haven't diagnosed her schitzo but the schitzo medication that they have her on also goes with the manic stage of manic depression. She said that she is not a threat to me, that she knows that I did not take her husband or cause her these problems. She knows she is sick and always has been. She is just praying that they will be able to help her to be a better person. She does not want her kids to go through the tough times that she did when she was a kid with her mother. She told me not to walk away from MM just because of her sickness. She said he loves me and that she wants him to be happy. What a change. If she isn't a real threat to me, I do want to be with him.

 

And Debster, I know that you are getting tired of reading my threads but it really is helping me to sort out my feelings. You do not have to read them but I do respect that you are giving me an honest opinion. I do not expect everyone to read them and agree with my choices. I know that I am in a bad situation. I am just trying to find a way to make everything right. I do want my son to grow up and be an honest, respectful, caring, intelligent man. I know my actions right now are not leading to that but I am going to make things right. I will. One way or another. I do not cry in front of my son, I do not let him know what's going on, I am just being a loving mother to him. He likes my MM and he likes his kids. I am seriously doing better for him. I was in an abusive relationship with his father and I left that for his sake. I do what is necessary for my son. Right now I am not walking away from my MM because we do truly love each other. We have since we were teens, there has got to be a way to make things right. For some reason we keep turning back to each other.

 

I do know that you think he is a scum bag for sleeping with us both but it is a messed up situation. I was still kissing and hugging my ex-husband when we were separated and I was seeing someone. I was just trying to see if there was anything there, and there wasn't. It was hard to let go because we had spent so many years together. I not only left my husband but I also left what I thought was safety and security.

 

I have looked into the subsidized counseling, the only problem is that they only do M-F 8-5 and that is my working hours. I will keep checking around, hopefully I find something.

 

Today I feel at peace with myself and it feels good. I haven't felt that in a while. I am going to find myself again.

[Debster]

Debster, you say that but what if she is just putting on an act to scare me away.

 

I can't believe you are willing to take that risk.

 

My dad is a manic depressant and said that he really does not believe that she will follow through with her threats. He said now that once they have her medicines straightened out that she will live a relatively normal life, or as normal as a manic can.

 

I see.... the apple doesn't fall to far from the tree.

 

By the way manic depression (or bipolar) is NOT the same thing as schizophrenia.

 

Also, it often takes a long time for the medicines to take their tole. Plus in order for them to work she needs to consistently take her medicine - are you willing to take that risk?

 

Don't worry, I won't post anymore responses. What is the point? You are beyond the point of rational thought.

 

I wish you luck. You're going to need it.

[Dulce_Angel_Whispers]

So get off or your as* and do it. Stop writing about it.

 

Isn't "writing" about it the point of this board? Who are YOU to tell her she has to stop?

 

Don't worry, I won't post anymore responses. What is the point? You are beyond the point of rational thought.

 

Why are do you think she's beyond the rational thought? Just because she is weighing all options and isn't jumping to do what you say doesn't mean she is irrationally thinking.

If you payed attention to her earlier posts his wife seems to be a heck of a manipulator! She threatens to end her life or someone else's when her husband gets the balls to leave her for cheating on him, she knows it worked in the past but now she has to "take it up a notch" to make sure she doesn't lose his attention!

 

If you don't want to post don't save it for someone who has something constructive to say!