Women posters on this site catch alot of hell....

[phineas]

The part I object to is the part where you said it is exclusively the domain of women to use people in this way.

 

That has not been my personal experience; plenty of times I've put up with guys sponging off me and expecting me to pay. Happened on first dates, happened on cab rides, whatever.

 

Do I think it's right when women do it? No, absolutely not. But do I think that means it's reasonable to say that it's JUST women who do it? Nope. And do I think it's reasonable to go off on women HERE ON LS about it? No, absolutely not. Because there are demonstrably ALREADY a number of women HERE who agree that it's not OK to sponge off people. So, you're preaching to the choir.

 

The people you SHOULD be complaining to are the ones who DO IT - i.e., your girlfriend and her friends. THEY are the offenders.

 

I honestly think that's what sally4sara was trying to say. And, seriously, it's a reasonable point - if they're the ones who did something crappy, shouldn't they be held accountable? Why talk smack about women in the abstract when it's these specific women who did something crappy? Why get upset at women here who basically agree with you that that's a crappy way to behave - and, in fact, are only disagreeing that ALL (or "MOST") women behave that way?

 

It's not about agreeing with you or disagreeing with you, in the sense that what happened to you happened to you. But it's the INEVITABILITY of it all, the sense that women in general are spongers, that's up for dispute. I see no reason why I should be forced to agree with statements like that, in order to maintain a civil conversation. Once statements like that are made, civil conversation is out the window. So those statements - that's what needs to go first, if we're ever going to find common ground.

 

It's just so EXTREMELY irritating to come on here and state a viewpoint, and then in the next thread see that a bunch of guys are laying on AGAIN about how NO WOMEN have that viewpoint.

 

TIRESOME.

 

At least your actually going out on dates with these men. j/k sort-of.

So are you mad you had to pay?

Would you of paid half if he had money & not complained?

Or do you expect the man to pay for dates?

 

A lot of men do stuff for women then get blown off or flaked on for the date once she got what she wanted out of them.

 

And as was said your a jerk if you won't do a woman a favor. But and I find this very interesting, only the really young girls have tried this with me since I got buff.

Later 20's & up just seem to know i'll laugh in their face if they try flirting with me then ask me to do something for them like replace the headlight on their car or fix their computer. Da hell?

 

I personally save treating women out to dinner for when their my GF & stick to inexpensive things for "dates" while i'm getting to know her.

 

Those truely interested don't care. Those looking to use me start mentioning expensive restuarants & wandering into the jewelery stores at the mall pointing out things she'd really love to have like the first or 2nd time we hung out

 

Then the constant mentioning of something on their house that needs fixing & how expensive it is to have someone do the work. I'm 100% serious. I deal with this probably with every 1 out of 3 women I meet out with.

 

These are women people set me up with, I meet at charity functions, social events in fine restaurants. Not dating sites or bars.

 

Blows my mind.

[sally4sara]

The part I object to is the part where you said it is exclusively the domain of women to use people in this way.

 

That has not been my personal experience; plenty of times I've put up with guys sponging off me and expecting me to pay. Happened on first dates, happened on cab rides, whatever.

 

Do I think it's right when women do it? No, absolutely not. But do I think that means it's reasonable to say that it's JUST women who do it? Nope. And do I think it's reasonable to go off on women HERE ON LS about it? No, absolutely not. Because there are demonstrably ALREADY a number of women HERE who agree that it's not OK to sponge off people. So, you're preaching to the choir.

 

The people you SHOULD be complaining to are the ones who DO IT - i.e., your girlfriend and her friends. THEY are the offenders.

 

I honestly think that's what sally4sara was trying to say. And, seriously, it's a reasonable point - if they're the ones who did something crappy, shouldn't they be held accountable? Why talk smack about women in the abstract when it's these specific women who did something crappy? Why get upset at women here who basically agree with you that that's a crappy way to behave - and, in fact, are only disagreeing that ALL (or "MOST") women behave that way?

 

It's not about agreeing with you or disagreeing with you, in the sense that what happened to you happened to you. But it's the INEVITABILITY of it all, the sense that women in general are spongers, that's up for dispute. I see no reason why I should be forced to agree with statements like that, in order to maintain a civil conversation. Once statements like that are made, civil conversation is out the window. So those statements - that's what needs to go first, if we're ever going to find common ground.

 

It's just so EXTREMELY irritating to come on here and state a viewpoint, and then in the next thread see that a bunch of guys are laying on AGAIN about how NO WOMEN have that viewpoint.

 

TIRESOME.

 

This right here -exactly.

[phineas]

I didn't say it was wonderful, I just explained where the attitude came from.

 

It also doesn't mean that I personally ascribe to it.

 

Nothing is perfect.

 

You made it clear to me in your post this was your perception. If you actually believe that is the way it should be you would of just told me to "deal with it" LOL!

[dreamingoftigers]

At least your actually going out on dates with these men. j/k sort-of.

So are you mad you had to pay?

Would you of paid half if he had money & not complained?

Or do you expect the man to pay for dates?

 

A lot of men do stuff for women then get blown off or flaked on for the date once she got what she wanted out of them.

 

And as was said your a jerk if you won't do a woman a favor. But and I find this very interesting, only the really young girls have tried this with me since I got buff.

Later 20's & up just seem to know i'll laugh in their face if they try flirting with me then ask me to do something for them like replace the headlight on their car or fix their computer. Da hell?

 

I personally save treating women out to dinner for when their my GF & stick to inexpensive things for "dates" while i'm getting to know her.

 

Those truely interested don't care. Those looking to use me start mentioning expensive restuarants & wandering into the jewelery stores at the mall pointing out things she'd really love to have like the first or 2nd time we hung out

 

Then the constant mentioning of something on their house that needs fixing & how expensive it is to have someone do the work. I'm 100% serious. I deal with this probably with every 1 out of 3 women I meet out with.

 

These are women people set me up with, I meet at charity functions, social events in fine restaurants. Not dating sites or bars.

 

Blows my mind.

 

Some of those things are not just because "we want stuff." Younger girls are often told to gage how much a guy is willing to do for you in order to see how much he likes you.

 

That is a huge factor. The vast majority of women can make their own meal or change their own lightbulbs. But if you ask a guy to do it and he does, more often then not he is either "just a nice guy" or he likes you.

[sally4sara]

It's quite simple really, both PTP & I were relaying our personal experiances of how women on the whole seem to expect us as men to pay for them.

 

It's happened to my friends quite often also.

Yet saly4sara tells us "you wouldn't be complaining if men did it to you"

 

Oh hell no I did not. I ASKED you. Its a question - You wouldn't be complaining if men did it to you?

 

You're such a misogynous ass you didn't even read it proper. You skimmed over it and assumed I was saying you favor men to the point where you'd eat it and shut up if men did the same thing these two did. Why would I say that? Better question is why would you assume I was saying that? Is this a slow learner deal or have I got you pegged right? You assumed due to your own bias against women in general?

 

well my response was i've never had men flirt with me & pretend to be sexually interested in me to get me to do them favors.

 

No you haven't because you instead make friends with them and they help out of friendship. Thats why I suggested making friends.

 

and she stopped responding.

 

I was working. I work. Don't you? Or do you just push keys and ruffle paper all day?

 

PTP told her numerous times women expect him to pay, different women on multiple occasions & his friend experienced the same.

And she still keeps trying to explain it away as anything other than a woman expecting a man to pay.

 

How am I "keeping trying to explain" if I've stopped responding?

 

Are you also going to say women don't use sexuality as a way to get what they want from men also?

 

No. Instead I'm going to tell you that I could make mincemeat out of your posts all night and do it with or without my sexuality. The longer it takes you to stop telling lies about me, the longer I continue making you look slow. Your choice.

[phineas]

Oh hell no I did not. I ASKED you. Its a question - You wouldn't be complaining if men did it to you?

 

You're such a misogynous ass you didn't even read it proper. You skimmed over it and assumed I was saying you favor men to the point where you'd eat it and shut up if men did the same thing these two did. Why would I say that? Better question is why would you assume I was saying that? Is this a slow learner deal or have I got you pegged right? You assumed due to your own bias against women in general?

 

 

 

No you haven't because you instead make friends with them and they help out of friendship. Thats why I suggested making friends.

 

 

 

I was working. I work. Don't you? Or do you just push keys and ruffle paper all day?

 

 

 

How am I "keeping trying to explain" if I've stopped responding?

 

 

 

No. Instead I'm going to tell you that I could make mincemeat out of your posts all night and do it with or without my sexuality. The longer it takes you to stop telling lies about me, the longer I continue making you look slow. Your choice.

 

when someone starts dropping insults & name calling it's a sure sign in my book that they really have nothing to bring to the discussion.

It also makes you look unintelligent & well, tells me you know you are wrong & don't lack the courage to admit it.

 

You can say whatever you want. Insult however you want.

From this point on I view you as an irrational person & your perception of me no longer matters.

[Woggle]

While I certainly don't condone women who take advantage of a man's generous nature I sort of agree with the women that all a man has to do is say no. If a man finds out he has a user on his hands then remove her from your life. There is a time when somebody goes from a victim to a volunteer. These guys are the male version of a woman who loves a jerk and keeps going back for more pain.

[sally4sara]

when someone starts dropping insults & name calling it's a sure sign in my book that they really have nothing to bring to the discussion.

It also makes you look unintelligent & well, tells me you know you are wrong & don't lack the courage to admit it.

 

You can say whatever you want. Insult however you want.

From this point on I view you as an irrational person & your perception of me no longer matters.

 

Hey Queen Ultimatum! You LIED about me. I am insulted. This is a blatant cop out to avoid an apology or an admittance after demanding I respond to you with a judgement of two women I don't know and the female gender in general.

 

You just keep on proving yourself to be that misogynistic bitter man you're so scared women will find out you are with every post till you apologize or confess a biased assumption drove you to slander me.

[alphamale]

I have read several posts that tell a woman poster that she should be the one to apologize, or back off or etc...even if its the guys fault. Are men always right?

 

This site seems to cater to this mentality.

not even 300 posts and you're already drawing inane conclusions

[Mme. Chaucer]

I haven't read the whole thread & I'm not gonna. But I have to say, what in heaven's name is this world coming to??

 

When I was a young and fabulously alluring woman, my friends and I used to stand at the bar at the I-Beam and ... YES! Get guys to buy us drinks! For fun! It WAS fun! They were playing the same game we were! We were trying to get drinks; they were trying to get something else. You can guess what. They weren't mad when we did not "put out." NO! They were HAVING FUN!!! They were also young and fabulous, just like we were.

 

What's happened?

[sally4sara]

While I certainly don't condone women who take advantage of a man's generous nature I sort of agree with the women that all a man has to do is say no. If a man finds out he has a user on his hands then remove her from your life. There is a time when somebody goes from a victim to a volunteer. These guys are the male version of a woman who loves a jerk and keeps going back for more pain.

 

Woggle, these guys are just male versions of themselves and they eat what they get served. You and I know what being a victim is really like and I have to admit I am a bit put off by them acting like they're being victimized while talking crap on women when they are not going to do anything but take it. They should speak up for themselves instead of snidely demanding I speak for them.

In your honest opinion, why would you say they are slandering me for telling them to speak up for themselves? Why do you think they're on my ass? You talk all the time about subtle misandry; what do you call this? Do you see in them what I'm seeing?

[Woggle]

I haven't read the whole thread & I'm not gonna. But I have to say, what in heaven's name is this world coming to??

 

When I was a young and fabulously alluring woman, my friends and I used to stand at the bar at the I-Beam and ... YES! Get guys to buy us drinks! For fun! It WAS fun! They were playing the same game we were! We were trying to get drinks; they were trying to get something else. You can guess what. They weren't mad when we did not "put out." NO! They were HAVING FUN!!! They were also young and fabulous, just like we were.

 

What's happened?

 

Gender relations have gotten much much worse since then.

[phineas]

Some of those things are not just because "we want stuff." Younger girls are often told to gage how much a guy is willing to do for you in order to see how much he likes you.

 

That is a huge factor. The vast majority of women can make their own meal or change their own lightbulbs. But if you ask a guy to do it and he does, more often then not he is either "just a nice guy" or he likes you.

 

I understand this, but honestly, in my experience women almost never respect a guy who does things for her on a regular basis & they find it unattractive.

 

I'm not talking about those weasels that do stuff for women because they think it will get them sex either.

 

I'm talking generally nice guys like me that enjoy helping people out when they can.

 

You get taken advantage of. Everybody does it, but like I said, you don't see a guy working his cleavage to get another guy to help him move.

[alphamale]

Gender relations have gotten much much worse since then.

only in the US, everywhere else is pretty much ok.

[Woggle]

only in the US, everywhere else is pretty much ok.

 

Read a British website and they are almost worse than us.

[phineas]

While I certainly don't condone women who take advantage of a man's generous nature I sort of agree with the women that all a man has to do is say no. If a man finds out he has a user on his hands then remove her from your life. There is a time when somebody goes from a victim to a volunteer. These guys are the male version of a woman who loves a jerk and keeps going back for more pain.

 

But have you ever seen a user just gracefully bow out when the jig is up?

I don't see too many in the work place.

They get really pissed & go into damage control mode & love dropping the word "creepy"

 

I've had women at work tell me about guys who were "creepy" on the down low.

 

guys I've actually known for yrs that are good guys.

These guys just called these women out on their BS for leading them on.

 

not cool.

[alphamale]

Read a British website and they are almost worse than us.

no, male female relations in europe are much better than here.

[phineas]

no, male female relations in europe are much better than here.

 

They are a lot more open when it comes to relationships over there.

sometimes cheating isn't even acknowledged as cheating.

[rafallus]

Gender relations have gotten much much worse since then.

Highly doubt so.

 

Internet wasn't as widespread, therefore odds were you would never know about such sensitive to some individuals issues - or rather how staunch their stance really is.

 

Or that all could be just personas created for the net to vent off some steam or get reaction out of people.

 

Frankly, the more I hear or read it, the less crap I give.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Highly doubt so.

 

Internet wasn't as widespread, therefore odds were you would never know about such sensitive to some individuals issues - or rather how staunch their stance really is.

 

 

 

I think that the Internet is adding a lot of fuel to some peoples' fire.

 

Honestly, in my barfly days getting cute guys to buy drinks, there were probably some individuals who felt angry about having bought one of us one. But they didn't have this venue to rant and rave about it and to find all the other guys who felt that same way.

 

Conversely, all the guys who were having fun playing that social kind of game that boys and girls have enjoyed playing for decades, if not centuries, are still enjoying themselves with the ladies and not making a big scene about their failures here.

 

Same goes for the butthurt girls vs. the happy flirts. Just to maintain gender equality and all.

[phineas]

I don't really see a gender relation issue in real life.

Not in the work place at least.

 

By the way, I think i spend entirely way too much time with those people on a weekly basis by the way)

 

I can get along just fine with an outed user.

I can because once I loose respect for someone, anyone, I can't even muster the energy to dislike them.

 

I really only see it when women chase bad-boys constantly, wind up getting used, refuse to accept advice telling them to stop dating jerks then they take it out on a decent fellow, then go after a jerk again.

 

I also see guys trying to make ho's into housewives. Get cheated on disrespected ect. Then they run around pumping & dumping women left & right because they turned into bad-boy jerks.

 

The internet gives people courage. I work with hundreds of women that have known me personally. Not once have I been called "bitter" in real life.

I've been called jerk,ass, player, womanizer, Dog, player....did I mention player? LOL!

 

and i'm not. I just next a woman the second a red flag pops up & honestly there are dozens of women I've never met at happy hour.

[Disillusioned]

Gender relations have gotten much much worse since then.

 

It's only logical that the War Between the Sexes has only led to Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

And no, I didn't fire the first shot.

[Woggle]

On a nice day go out and observe people. Tell me how many happy couples you see. I bet not many.

[Disillusioned]

Gender relations have gotten much much worse since then.

 

Look where the War Between the Sexes got us... to the brink of Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

Satisfied yet, everyone?

[phineas]

Look where the War Between the Sexes got us... to the brink of Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

Satisfied yet, everyone?

 

I prefer to make love not war.

It's why I talk as little as possible to women in real life.