Has pornography ruined a generation?

[Des]

I can see you're going to continue to ignore the fact I am a man and I object to that sort of porn and have been ridiculed by a woman for doing so. I don't and she doesn't fit into your model. I find it a touch insulting and I wonder if you can see why?

 

No I can't see why you'd feel insulted. So you think women maybe want to be degraded or treated as in porn because one told you to hit her and you didn't? Because you offered an exception to what appears to be the rule?

 

I'm not trying to create "a model". But I am going by what I've most often heard and experienced enough to say there's a bigger issue here that extends far beyond being an isolated incident, and I'm offering one possible way to approach it is all. Sure both sides need to take responsibility, just saying I think it's time to come forth with women's opinion on the subject of men's porn use and the downright offensive nature of some of it when it crosses the line, and be able to do so without being made to feel insecure or inadequate.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Des

[Woggle]

I admit that some porn goes way too far and I do feel for women in relationships with men who are addicted but I feel it is often used as a scapegoat. The problems that plague relationships today go much deeper and the attitude I get from some women on here is that they seem to think if men would just stop looking at porn everything would be okay.

[betterdeal]

No I can't see why you'd feel insulted. So you think women maybe want to be degraded or treated as in porn because one told you to hit her and you didn't? Because you offered an exception to what appears to be the rule?

 

I'm not trying to create "a model". But I am going by what I've most often heard and experienced enough to say there's a bigger issue here that extends far beyond being an isolated incident, and I'm offering one possible way to approach it is all. Sure both sides need to take responsibility, just saying I think it's time to come forth with women's opinion on the subject of men's porn use and the downright offensive nature of some of it when it crosses the line, and be able to do so without being made to feel insecure or inadequate.

 

Whilst men who are "made to feel insecure or inadequate" as a result of women's use of porn are just an exception; a bit like male rape victims. There's less of them so they don't matter.

Edited August 24, 2011 by betterdeal

[sweetjasmine]

I've seen it become progressively more contrived and as it depends on shock to maintain its customer base, it has become ever more violent as it seeks out new angles from which to get that rush of adrenalin going in the viewer / reader. By conflating the Goat.se effect with sex, you can sell more.

 

Yes, and people seek out more and more shocking things because they need that extra edge to get off once they've desensitized themselves to what they were just watching. And after so much over-stimulation, it should be no wonder that they can't get off on ordinary, plain sex with an actual human being.

 

And now throw in 12 year old boys surfing the internet to the mix and have all these over-the-top violent sexual acts be their first exposure to sex. Have it be their constant exposure to sex for years before they become sexually active. Of course it's going to have an impact on their sexual development and their future actions. It just remains to be seen exactly what that will be like, IMO, but I think we're already seeing glimpses of that in the way some people in their 20s and early 30s behave.

 

More than that, women are seeking to be degraded. I've been ridiculed for refusing to hit a woman, and for refusing to cum in her face. At the same time, she is afraid of real intimacy such as kissing and making love.

 

This is a very important point. Instant internet porn isn't affecting just men. It's also shaping women's attitudes and affecting their behavior.

[Crusoe]

I admit that some porn goes way too far and I do feel for women in relationships with men who are addicted but I feel it is often used as a scapegoat. The problems that plague relationships today go much deeper and the attitude I get from some women on here is that they seem to think if men would just stop looking at porn everything would be okay.

 

Both sexes are being bombarded with unrealistic images and expectations of what life and relationships are all about. That's for sure.

[CarrieT]

I'm just saying that women don't stand up and speak up against porn enough, I rarely ever hear of that. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of girls I've heard explain how their boyfriends constantly use porn and how it stresses them, but in discussion they are never encouraged to speak out against it by their peers, but are told to "get over it" and quit being up-tight and are assured all guys use it and are basically entitled to it. So it's no wonder so many adapt to a "if you can't beat em, joint em" mentality.

 

That is all fine in theory, but look at the practicality of it; the young boys who are getting inundated and talk about it in the locker room because it is a multi-BILLION dollar industry.

 

Look how long it took for women to just get the vote - to try and go up against a tidal wave of this magnitude to change our society and you are in a sense stating that it is the WOMEN who have to rise up and speak against it? Nice idea, but flawed.

 

It must be society as a whole that sees how the early sexualization of our youth is causing the degradation of relationships. Why put the onus on women to fix a huge societal problem?

 

There are, by the way, women's groups again porn but most are viewed as radical feminists organizations who are laughed at for their extreme measures to bring to light this situation.

[Scottdmw]

I do think this is a serious problem. I try to stay away from porn myself as much as I possibly can. Even so I can see the progression of “needing” more and more bizarre things to get an effect. Where does the logic of that go?

 

I don't have kids, but if I ever do I’m going to try to make it a priority to limit their exposure to this kind of thing until they are at least a little older. My concept is to have no computers in the house except desktops in common areas, i.e. no one has privacy on the computer. Cell phones can hopefully be limited models that have no video capability.

 

Obviously this stuff is out there all over the place and kids are going to see it no matter what. But, I think there's something to be said for not giving kids a chance to actually develop a full-blown addiction at least until they're adults.

 

Scott

[2011aug]

hold on.

 

buffering...

[Eclypse]

Well I'm 20 so I'm that generation. I've been watching porn since about 13. There is a fine line between enjoying something, and becoming addicted to it (like video games). Porn works wonders when I get a sudden horny urge or I'm tired and stressed after a long day. I'd rather have sex with my girlfriend, but I can't see her everyday. I think that girls boyfriend was just a jerk, and in no way representative of all young men. I've never forced my girlfriend to do something she didn't want to do. Most of our sex is pretty vanilla. I wouldn't mind trying anal one day, but until then there's porn to indulge my fantasies.

 

That's what most of porn is really: fantasies. The majority of stuff in porn that turns me on I have absoltely no interest in doing (eg 3somes / double penetration). Who knows, maybe I'm just an anomaly. But I love my girlfriend and the majority of my pleasure from sex comes from knowing she likes it too. Yet I still watch porn pretty frequently.

[mike1988]

I can tell you that it changes the perception of sex. For me, I have had bad sex and good sex, but I've only been with older women or chubbier women (I am not shallow) but I know that if I were able to lift the girl up in the air or if she were more adjustable, the sex would feel better. Clearly I get this vision from TV where they lift the girl on the counter. I tried to do this once with a girl and nearly gave myself a hernia.

 

I am 6 feet tall, 160 lbs. I would date women who were tall and busty, and literally get the wind knocked out of me as soon as they got on top, which then makes me lose my erection. It's a pain. It's almost as if my body wants something different than my mind.

[betterdeal]

Look how long it took for women to just get the vote - to try and go up against a tidal wave of this magnitude to change our society and you are in a sense stating that it is the WOMEN who have to rise up and speak against it? Nice idea, but flawed.

 

It took men until the 1920s, and millions killed and maimed to get the vote here.

[Des]

Whilst men who are "made to feel insecure or inadequate" as a result of women's use of porn are just an exception; a bit like male rape victims. There's less of them so they don't matter.

 

oy... I don't see how people always take that away from what I'm saying. They always take to it somehow as if I'm meaning to put men down, and I'm not.

 

That is all fine in theory, but look at the practicality of it; the young boys who are getting inundated and talk about it in the locker room because it is a multi-BILLION dollar industry.

 

Look how long it took for women to just get the vote - to try and go up against a tidal wave of this magnitude to change our society and you are in a sense stating that it is the WOMEN who have to rise up and speak against it? Nice idea, but flawed.

 

The world was a very different place then. What I'm getting at is that nowadays yes, women can take initiative in their own relationships and not remain so passive about their concerns with porn. If the average woman would confront their SO when watching abuse/degradation porn and voice when they found it offensive or disgusting, and simply make it clear that they won't just accept it, this process of it's normalization wouldn't worsen and start to effect more and more people. I honestly don't see how that's so flawed or farfetched. I'm stating that it can be done, and I don't see how that is perceived as being difficult.

 

That's the thing that baffled me about this young girl. When her boyfriend told her he wanted to make her puke, although she did feel put off, she told us she found it gross and didn't like the idea instead of telling him. Apparently afraid to voice these feelings to him for fear of being a turn-off. If this kind of relationship dynamic continues, we're headed down a very bad path for this generation of young girls.

 

 

It must be society as a whole that sees how the early sexualization of our youth is causing the degradation of relationships. Why put the onus on women to fix a huge societal problem?

 

There are, by the way, women's groups again porn but most are viewed as radical feminists organizations who are laughed at for their extreme measures to bring to light this situation.

 

I see that and again am not saying that the burden should be all on women. Just suggesting more of their involvement. I think that sexualization needs to be called out with as much passion as racism is in our society. Minorities fight racism and prejudice tooth and nail, and while they may be completely supportive, majority groups do not put up that same kind of fight for them. But where is that same passion in defense of young girls and women?

 

I think feminist groups are doing pretty well for themselves lately. I've saw several gatherings and the discussion is civil, neutral, and simple to understand. I think the only people laughing at them are a) porn industry insiders and b) porn addicts. But these group can't do it alone.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Des

[Engadget]

Porn hasn't changed anything, it's mindless hysteria.

[betterdeal]

oy... I don't see how people always take that away from what I'm saying. They always take to it somehow as if I'm meaning to put men down, and I'm not.

 

It's easy to take that from what you're saying. You're saying men abuse women because of porn, and women need to tell men off for it, and when presented with an example of a men being abused by a woman because of porn, you dismissed it. It's an exception to the rule in your words. Which makes it okay?

 

Men and women are almost as likely to be abused as each other. That is to say, men and women are almost equally abusive. You are trying to whitewash out abused males and demanding women tell men off (and by implication, you men who are abused, just shut up), and refusing to accept the suggestion that this is a social issue that people (i.e. men and women) can work together on. That's what I get from what you're saying.

 

In the pornos, the women taking part are overwhelmingly doing so voluntarily. They are as much a part of the problem. Women aren't dumb animals. Neither are men. Youngsters are, however, very impressionable and it is up to their elders to decide how they are moulded and brought into adulthood. Their elders are their parents, extended families, communities, schools, nations and any other adult they come into contact with in this global village. That means you and me included. Not just girls telling boys off, but also men showing boys how to become men and women showing girls how to become women.

[Des]

Well I'm 20 so I'm that generation. I've been watching porn since about 13. There is a fine line between enjoying something, and becoming addicted to it (like video games). Porn works wonders when I get a sudden horny urge or I'm tired and stressed after a long day. I'd rather have sex with my girlfriend, but I can't see her everyday. I think that girls boyfriend was just a jerk, and in no way representative of all young men. I've never forced my girlfriend to do something she didn't want to do. Most of our sex is pretty vanilla. I wouldn't mind trying anal one day, but until then there's porn to indulge my fantasies.

 

That's what most of porn is really: fantasies. The majority of stuff in porn that turns me on I have absoltely no interest in doing (eg 3somes / double penetration). Who knows, maybe I'm just an anomaly. But I love my girlfriend and the majority of my pleasure from sex comes from knowing she likes it too. Yet I still watch porn pretty frequently.

 

Not sure you quite understand the dynamics of addiction. When a smoker is addicted, they get that "urge" (like you said) to go have a smoke and "take the stress of". Sounds like you get that urge too to and use porn every so often for the fix. There is a high porn users get that works similarly in the sense that it's addictive. To me, it sounds like you have an addiction and dependence on porn.

[Des]

It's easy to take that from what you're saying. You're saying men abuse women because of porn, and women need to tell men off for it, and when presented with an example of a men being abused by a woman because of porn, you dismissed it. It's an exception to the rule in your words. Which makes it okay?

 

Men and women are almost as likely to be abused as each other. That is to say, men and women are almost equally abusive. You are trying to whitewash out abused males and demanding women tell men off (and by implication, you men who are abused, just shut up), and refusing to accept the suggestion that this is a social issue that people (i.e. men and women) can work together on. That's what I get from what you're saying.

 

You're making too much of something I didn't mean. Not saying abuse of men is insignificant. Your experience is valid, just not the brunt of the problems I hear about with porn related struggles, it's a bit peculiar. And yes I am speaking on behalf of young women like this girl who is faced with such a situation.

 

Sure men should stand up when there's a porn issue damaging their relationship. I'm just saying, I want to see more young women feel okay about doing the same instead of further succumbing to the woes modern porn.

 

In the pornos, the women taking part are overwhelmingly doing so voluntarily. They are as much a part of the problem. Women aren't dumb animals. Neither are men. Youngsters are, however, very impressionable and it is up to their elders to decide how they are moulded and brought into adulthood. Their elders are their parents, extended families, communities, schools, nations and any other adult they come into contact with in this global village. That means you and me included. Not just girls telling boys off, but also men showing boys how to become men and women showing girls how to become women.

 

Hey, I think people can be pretty dumb animals. I think history can prove that time and time again. They can treat each other like dogs and never face the fact that that's what they're doing.

[betterdeal]

Just like having a coffee.

[FeelingSmall]

I like "vanilla" porn. It can be VERY enjoyable, especially when watched WITH my SO. I do not care for the way out there stuff, I have my own little fantasies and I don't even enjoy watching those. I just like the visual aid sometimes and it's nice to watch him enjoy it as well.

 

I do think that people have been VERY jaded to sex because of porn but you can't win this battle. Porn has been around as long as the capability to make it has been. The only thing as individuals that we can do is not watch it, those who feel negative about it, that is. Getting angry at men for watching it IMO is silly, pointless and like banging your head against the wall.

 

Hey there's a new batch of cookies on the table! Try them! It's new and amazing! You've never tasted anything like it! Get mad at the cookie maker, not the cookie eater.

[Des]

I like "vanilla" porn. It can be VERY enjoyable, especially when watched WITH my SO. I do not care for the way out there stuff, I have my own little fantasies and I don't even enjoy watching those. I just like the visual aid sometimes and it's nice to watch him enjoy it as well.

 

I do think that people have been VERY jaded to sex because of porn but you can't win this battle. Porn has been around as long as the capability to make it has been. The only thing as individuals that we can do is not watch it, those who feel negative about it, that is. Getting angry at men for watching it IMO is silly, pointless and like banging your head against the wall.

 

Hey there's a new batch of cookies on the table! Try them! It's new and amazing! You've never tasted anything like it! Get mad at the cookie maker, not the cookie eater.

 

 

Oh I'm angry at the cookie maker, believe me. But I understand that like you said, it's more logical and reasonable to evaluate this from our perspective, the consumer.

 

But people are this jaded nowadays not because porn has always been around, but because of what porn has more recently became. The flood gates opened when porn became free and easy on the internet and at the same time became so predominantly extremist and misogynistic.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Des

[betterdeal]

I give up, Des, You're like the frigging Equalizer. Completely sexist and not realising it.

[Engadget]

Oh I'm angry at the cookie maker, believe me. But I understand that like you said, it's more logical and reasonable to evaluate this from our perspective, the consumer.

 

But people are this jaded nowadays not because porn has always been around, but because of what porn has more recently became. The flood gates opened when porn became free and easy on the internet and at the same time became so predominantly extremist and misogynistic.

 

Predominantly? Whaaaaat?

[Des]

I give up, Des, You're like the frigging Equalizer. Completely sexist and not realising it.

 

Well I don't know what you're giving up on. I didn't think we we're arguing, I thought we were on the same page. I just don't know how to explain my thoughts in a way doesn't somehow leave you feeling slighted when I've told you several times I do not disagree with what you've said.

 

Predominantly? Whaaaaat?

 

Most modern porn is compartmentalized, one sided, pick-your-fetish. Basically a market for whatever a guy could want to do to a woman's body, and each are treated as just the object for that interest and then on with the next. If that's not bad enough you have all this extremist degradation that often gets just thrown in with everything else on these websites.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Des

[Engadget]

Well I don't know what you're giving up on. I didn't think we we're arguing, I thought we were on the same page. I just don't know how to explain my thoughts in a way doesn't somehow leave you feeling slighted when I've told you several times I do not disagree with what you've said.

 

 

 

Most modern porn is compartmentalized, one sided, pick-your-fetish. Basically a market for whatever a guy could want to do to a woman's body, and each are treated as just the object for that interest and then on with the next. If that's not bad enough you have all this extremist degradation that often gets just thrown in with everything else on these websites.

 

Define predominantly extremist and mysoginistic though, I watch porn once in a while and don't see what you're talking about.

[Des]

Within the time I posted this topic, I've come across another relationship discussion topic with more or less the same issue. Another young woman sharing her concern and frustration with her current and past boyfriend's behavior stating "if I'm givin head, they did things like pull on my hair, gag me, even slap me and spit on me... call me nasty names." and she says "at first I really didn't like it, but I guess I just got used to it?". She goes on to explain that her current boyfriend "wasn't like that when we first started dating. he was really sweet" but now he too has started doing the same and she wants to know "what makes guys turn like that" and if this is something she is causing, or if "this is just normal" and a lot of guys are aggressive like this. "please help", she asks the forum.

 

Again, where is the sense of self-respect? Why passively accept that behavior and "get used to it" instead of speaking up for herself? Honestly, reading this stuff doesn't even shock me anymore. I suppose one could find another sad story like this everyday if I they looked... the problem for the vast minority? I'm really thinking not at this point.

 

Define predominantly extremist and mysoginistic though, I watch porn once in a while and don't see what you're talking about.

 

But I just explain that in the last post, maybe you just didn't even realize it?

[Electric.man]

Sorry Des, but I think you are making it a bigger deal than it really is.

 

I will agree on a part - porn makes it so that people, especially younger adults, get a skewed idea about certain roles and attitudes; Women might get the wrong impression that they have to be the silicone-enhanced, meat-stuffed version of a blowup doll, while men will get the message that they're nobody if they're not hung like a baguette and generally be the moronic-macho man type.

Those are things that will easily be "scrubbed off" by an adult, but make a dent in a teenager's ideas - but this is not porn's fault, it's their parents for being careless and allowing them to get in contact with something they shouldn't have.

 

Now, while I won't deny that there will certainly be the stupid teenager that just wants to re-enact something he saw in a clip downloaded off the internet, also know that porn is only showing things that always existed but were kept confined under secrecy when we step into fetish realm.

 

Kinky fantasies and fetishes are as old as mankind is; I have a very deep interest in the subject, and went through a lot of research over the years.

 

There is just about everything out there, from the "classic" kinky fantasies involving nurses and doctors to the most extreme and guess what, people haven been having those fantasies and fetishes since long before porn became mainstream or tried to show them off.

 

I myself am 31 and have been having my own fantasies for as long as I can remember and only started seeing them portrayed in erotic productions 5 or 6 years ago.

 

Through the internet, I came in contact with many other people sharing the same fetishes and learnt everyone has a different story - from the 60 years old man who dreamed about made-up scenarios as a teen while looking at the models in a mail order catalog, to the 18 years old girl that actually saw it in some erotic flick and realized it was having an effect on her you-know-what.

 

Of course, the way an individual relates to his or her own preferences is a matter of commonsense and maturity; While it's no point trying to force somebody into something she or he doesn't like, there is nothing wrong about sharing them with a consensual partner, of course while taking all the required steps towards safety and enjoyment. If anything, it will make both of your sexual lives one hell of a lot better.