Has pornography ruined a generation?

[Taramere]

The situation the OP described is the VAST VAST minority.

 

Of porn? It's been estimated that 20% of porn on the internet is child pornography. Here's a source for that figure.

 

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV70.pdf

 

The purveyors of that pornography aren't necessarily child molestors themselves. Organised crime will always make its money out of whatever happens to be illegal...and child porn is no exception. They make money out of it because there is an enormous demand for it. Does a figure like that mean 20% of people who use internet pornography are viewing child porn? Maybe it's just that people who are into the sexual abuse of children are very high level porn users....and probably have a near insatiable appetite for this material.

 

I think it would be more difficult to produce a figure relating to violent porn, as there's a continuum between non-violent, lovey dovey depictions of adult sexuality, and very violent porn. I wouldn't be surprised if the kind of porn Des is talking about makes up a significant chunk of the market, though. Not necessarily because lots and lots of people are consuming it....but perhaps because those who do consume it most probably do so in very high quantities.

 

I can't quite get past that 20% of porn is child porn figure. If I'm honest, I'm trying to be optimistic when I say that I believe it represents a tiny portion of porn users who consume that type of porn in huge quantities. There's another part of me that thinks a lot of people out there are probably consuming this stuff. The sexual abuse of children is one of the last taboos...and only because children are legally deemed to be too young to consent.

 

ETA. Apologies for taking the thread off course somewhat. My point is that the tamer type of porn doesn't necessarily constitute the vast percentage of what gets consumed on the internet.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Taramere

[Woggle]

There is a huge huge difference between child porn and stuff that promotes violence and degredation and looking at a nudie mag or even watching Debbie Does Dallas. Not all porn is created equal.

[AHardDaysNight]

Well, I don't look at child porn. It actually makes me ill.

 

That being said, I don't discount the figures. It's a sweeping generalization, though.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

There is no two bones about it (pun intended). Porn has changed sexuality for the worse. I think the fact that we spend so much time trying to normalize porn is a big clue about just has big an issue it is.

 

And the person that mentioned the growth of child porn is right. While not all porn is created equally, I don't think I ever saw one porn movie that didn't stereotype, objectify or debase people in some way. (Usually women). I also think while most people aern't looking at child porn, alot of men are looking at "barely Legal" porn or porn of babysitters or school girls or other nonsense that completely minimizes these young women and older women alike.

 

For a moment, lets look at our country in general seperate from porn or sex even. We have a country over indulgent in so many things. Our nation's debt is one form of this. The amount of people that are over weight is another form of this. Tivo, Ipads, Facebook....Our culture's addiction to celebrities... The list goes on. We are an overall unhealthy over-indulgent culture.

 

And yet, when it comes to porn, people all the sudden think that most people just use porn in moderation and that it's only a minor problem. Yet, I bet for many of us, sex is a bigger lure then food or drink or drug. After all, sex is the basis of human connection and ultimate pleasure not even achieved through the most delicious of chocolate cakes. And on top of that, how porn is received is different from how one would have to go about getting food or drink or drug. To get these other commodities, you have to actually leave your house, you have to have some kind of exchange with another human being and you have to pay varying forms of money to feed it. With porn, it now comes directly into the home, completely free (except for the cost of an internet provider) and completely void of any interaction with another person. You are not held accountable by anyone for what you are viewing. You can vie the most disturbing things behind closed doors and on the outside project the image of American normacy. (How many of us were shocked by the idea of a man wanting a woman to "puke" on his penis? People weren't exactly gasping in surprise to that even though some of us claim that a "minority" of the population is "like that") On top of that, porn is increasingly hateful and cruel. Usually toward women. Not only are young generations of young men and women growing up on this stuff like never before. Older adults are experience this world like never before as well. I've heard many older women complain about how they can't even get their 50+ year old husbands away from their computer and they know they are looking at porn of "barely legal" girls.

 

We don't live in a world anymore where porn is a "once-in-awhile" thing. We don't live in a world where sex is even a mutually enjoyable act between two people depicted through porn. In porn, it's about male pleasure first at the expense of the woman while she "acts" that being slapped around and called names is the best thing that ever happened to her. This kind of porn wouldn't be so prevelant if people were not watching it. And since most porn is usually made for men *first*, I think we can guess who this kind of porn is targeting for. Not only should we ask ourselves how much porn consumption is "normal", but we should ask ourselves why this type of porn is abundent and what is going on with men and how they feel to women that they've let this be the extent of their sexuality.

 

I've dated enough men and have enough sexual experience to see how often men seem to bring things they see in porn into the bedroom. And a lot of men don't even question whether you will like it or not. Since it's so normalized through porn, they just assume you'll love it as much as the girls in porn do. And if you don't, then you're "not fun". When I was younger, I use to try to act more pornstarish because I wanted men to like me. I wanted to be what they wanted. I use to watch porn for this exact reason. To learn what men wanted. And as I got older, I've seen how distorted my own view of sex is because of this. And I've seen how men gave me more compliments for being more "pornstar" then just being "me". I don't think men really celebrate female sexuality. I think they celebrate female sexuality has contrived by the media world they fantasize about. That's been my experience at least.

 

Porn is a big issue in our culture. There is no question in my mind how much it's affected men AND women. Sadly, instead of being this great big liberal expression of sexuality. All it is is conformist theatre (often fueled by female humiliation) about what sexuality should be.

[AHardDaysNight]

I guess what you're ignoring are all the sexually healthy adult males and females that consume porn. And I know quite a couple.

 

Feel free to see monsters wherever you want. All I'm saying is that I don't see regular, adult pornography as a bad thing.

 

If that makes me a pervert, so what? I like sex? Wow!

[OnyxSnowfall]

When I was younger, I use to try to act more pornstarish because I wanted men to like me. I wanted to be what they wanted. I use to watch porn for this exact reason. To learn what men wanted. And as I got older, I've seen how distorted my own view of sex is because of this. And I've seen how men gave me more compliments for being more "pornstar" then just being "me". I don't think men really celebrate female sexuality. I think they celebrate female sexuality has contrived by the media world they fantasize about. That's been my experience at least.

 

Porn is a big issue in our culture. There is no question in my mind how much it's affected men AND women. Sadly, instead of being this great big liberal expression of sexuality. All it is is conformist theatre (often fueled by female humiliation) about what sexuality should be.

 

I used to "emulate" pornstars too. I think it's a pretty common thing for girls to do when they are young (unfortunately... all my female friends were right there "emulating" them with me too).

 

The best I took from it all was that, while I "experimented" heavily and did all kinds of bizarre things to "please" these men, I at least discovered what I really liked and I gained an enduring and strong appreciation for close, meaningful intimacy with someone (once I encountered it... took years).

 

It'll hopefully just make it better when you find someone that compliments and takes more pleasurable in "you" and in what is "real". True sensuality can be overlooked for dramatic and exaggerated shows... but an insightful man can tell the difference, and a loving man will prefer the former (not to say he won't ever have moments of wanting the latter, sometimes females genuinely do, but the overall coupling is an expression of beauty, not generic lust).

 

Also, I think many nations are over-indulgent now. Convenience when possible, hard work only if forced. Quick, quick, quick fixes. Now now now now. More more more more. I would be surprised if the path changed and if doom didn't lie ahead.

 

Porn is one of many of these over-indulgent "trends". While some may be able to moderate it and incorporate it in their life in beneficial ways, I do not think that is true for most. I get that many people don't hold sex as sacred, and believe it's biologically right and sound but... so is the impulse to murder someone LoL.

 

It would be lovely if people could wake up, but sadly, I don't even know how many people are being brought up with "values" anymore. At least where I am located, so many women are single parents and working and their children are in less than quality daycares... then they are put in schools where teachers are under-staffed and ...

 

yeah. There's an abundance of drug-use in the youth around here... an abundance of teen pregnancies... etc... etc...

Edited September 6, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I guess what you're ignoring are all the sexually healthy adult males and females that consume porn. And I know quite a couple.

 

Feel free to see monsters wherever you want. All I'm saying is that I don't see regular, adult pornography as a bad thing.

 

If that makes me a pervert, so what? I like sex? Wow!

 

 

Yes, sexually healthy adult males and females can consume certain porn. But most porn out there isn't even sexually healthy. Especially for women who get stereotyped from their age to their nationality and objectified for their bodies. *Most* people aren't nearly has sexually healthy as you might think. Just like how our overall culture isn't very healthy with a slew of addictions in every corner. THe combination of sex being such a deep human desire AND the fact that getting people to talk about issues of sex, makes it even more difficult to get to the heart of the issue. Just take the comment you said to me. You're more interested in normalizing porn, and probably yourself because you use porn, then acknowledging a very real issue. You aren't taking into account the way porn has changed and the way it's received. The fact that you automactially took the defensive position to link my posts to portraying people to "monsters" is more of a deflection of the issues porn presents then an address of it.

 

What is really sexually healthy AHardDaysNight? Men and women sitting behidn closed doors in the soft glow of their computers watching 21 year old girls get banged by all manner of men? Seeing women repeatidly called four letter words in porn titles and in the actual movie? Making women choke on a man's penis to the extent that she gets tears in her eyes or pukes? Slapping a woman around or spitting into her mouth? Are these sexually healthy protrayls of a mutual happy sexual experience to you? The list goes on on things that are mostly done to women through porn. Sex is healthy. A desire for sex is healthy. Finding attractive people sexy is healthy. What porn is? Not healthy.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

OnyxSnowfall: I used to "emulate" pornstars too. I think it's a pretty common thing for girls to do when they are young (unfortunately... all my female friends were right there "emulating" them with me too).

 

I don't even think girls know they are doing it at first. What made me realize I was doing it when an ex told me that he loved the way I moaned. And at first I thought it was a nice compliment and then I thought about it and I taught myself to moan like that from the porn I watched when I was younger! Then I started really thinking about all the other ways I taught myself to act to be more of what a man wanted. And sadly, I think a lot of girls fall prey to the same trap. And their boyfriends will compliment them for that mimiking of porn rather then encourage them to be true to who they are in their sexuality.

 

 

It'll hopefully just make it better when you find someone that compliments and takes more pleasurable in "you" and in what is "real".

 

The key is finding a man like that and to me, I don't see many men that give compliments for a woman being true to herself more then I see men compliment women who perform more like "pornstars".

 

True sensuality can be overlooked for dramatic and exaggerated shows... but an insightful man can tell the difference, and a loving man will prefer the former (not to say he won't ever have moments of wanting the latter, sometimes females genuinely do, but the overall coupling is an expression of beauty, not generic lust).

 

Sadly, too many men have given up their insightfulness to the lure of the dramatic and over the top. All the more quite and intimately hot things you can do in the bedroom get overlooked because of what accounts for sex through porn and what men desire their female partners to be...which what I learned is another step closer to that male fantasy projected through porn. I'm not saying all men are like that, but from what I hear from my friends and my own experiences, most men are.

 

 

Porn is one of many of these over-indulgent "trends".

 

 

Porn isn't a trend. A trend is when cowboy hats where popular to where about 10 years ago and now they aren't. Or Flannel shirts and overalls in the 90s.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Porn isn't a trend. A trend is when cowboy hats where popular to where about 10 years ago and now they aren't. Or Flannel shirts and overalls in the 90s.

 

There's more than one definition of trend (also, the quotations marks were there to imply more. But... believe it or not, it is "trendy" to accept pornography in some places (as in others, pornography is still publicly frowned upon), it is "cool" and those who reject it fall into the "prudish" or "close-minded" pools of lovely ridicule. Sometimes there is no genuine desire for it, it's a facade to "go with the flow".

 

Ultimately I agree that porn has been a detriment to more people than a good thing for them. And it continues to... downward spiral. At least it'll make those men who do not agree with it (whether ethically, morally, and or sexually) more valuable in that respect lol. They exist... there's hope!

Edited September 6, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[rafeal]

I don't think porn is ruining a generation. However, it can be destructive in some forms. Computers and modern lifestyles may be having an adverse affect on social skills and being able to relate to others. That being said, here I sit typing away on my keyboard.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

There's more than one definition of trend (also, the quotations marks were there to imply more. But... believe it or not, it is "trendy" to accept pornography in some places (as in others, pornography is still publicly frowned upon), it is "cool" and those who reject it fall into the "prudish" or "close-minded" pools of lovely ridicule. Sometimes there is no genuine desire for it, it's a facade to "go with the flow".

 

Ultimately I agree that porn has been a detriment to more people than a good thing for them. And it continues to... downward spiral. At least it'll make those men who do not agree with it (whether ethically, morally, and or sexually) more valuable in that respect lol. They exist... there's hope!

 

Yes, I would agree it is "trendy" to accept pornography in some places. Explaining in that context makes more sense to me now!

[Des]

I've actually been out for a week sick, and I just wanted to respond to a couple of things here.

 

Sorry Des, but I think you are making it a bigger deal than it really is.

 

Now, while I won't deny that there will certainly be the stupid teenager that just wants to re-enact something he saw in a clip downloaded off the internet, also know that porn is only showing things that always existed but were kept confined under secrecy when we step into fetish realm.

 

Kinky fantasies and fetishes are as old as mankind is

 

My point is, without porn, these situations that people now face, these normalized fetishisms, and addictions would not exist in the magnitude that they now do. I don't think I'm making too much of it to say it's causing a whole heck of a lot of relationship and material problems. None of this was a "secret" before, just wasn't naturally occurring before porn became the encyclopedia for everyone's sexuality.

 

There is no two bones about it (pun intended). Porn has changed sexuality for the worse. I think the fact that we spend so much time trying to normalize porn is a big clue about just has big an issue it is.

 

And the person that mentioned the growth of child porn is right. While not all porn is created equally, I don't think I ever saw one porn movie that didn't stereotype, objectify or debase people in some way. (Usually women).

 

This is basicallly the point I was making to Engadget, but it seems to have totally missed somehow?

[Woggle]

The kind of men who don't agree with porn are the kind most women have no desire or attraction for.I used to lecture my friends about going to strip clubs because it degraded women and I watched them get treated like kings while I got played.

[Des]

The kind of men who don't agree with porn are the kind most women have no desire or attraction for.I used to lecture my friends about going to strip clubs because it degraded women and I watched them get treated like kings while I got played.

 

Maybe a matter of you just hanging out with the wrong people. Make friends with people who share your values, rather than trying reason with those of the complete opposite, god knows I've tried to do that. I rarely works. Why do you care if they get easy women who have no self-respect?

 

I can assure you there are tons of women out there who would love a guy who respects women, and who likes her for who she is.

[Woggle]

Maybe a matter of you just hanging out with the wrong people. Make friends with people who share your values, rather than trying reason with those of the complete opposite, god knows I've tried to do that. I rarely works. Why do you care if they get easy women who have no self-respect?

 

I can assure you there are tons of women out there who would love a guy who respects women, and who likes her for who she is.

 

Most men would love to know where these women are.

[Des]

Most men would love to know where these women are.

 

Well, I can tip you off by saying they are not around strip-clubs, bar scenes, or most "party" scenes. But generally anywhere else, is a good place to look.

 

I'm an advocate of online personals (it's not just for people who "can't get a date") because with that approach, everything that is truly important is open and honest and the superficial matters less.