Well, that didn't last long.

[Chinook]

H & I got married Oct 2010. We'd been together a year and we're both older (41) so we wanted to get on with things rather than wait... and it's a second time around for us both but we have known each other since school. I can't talk at the moment, I'm barely breathing.

 

In the last few weeks H has been struggling with anxiety and depression due to his redundancy in May. So recently we agreed he would stay home and be house husband and take care of the home, dawg (puppy) and me. I didn't have a problem with it all. I thought he didn't either. He was being treated for anxiety and depression by our GP. I had grown a little impatient with him recently because he has a history of continuously expecting me to be emotional buffer zone. I had asked him to seek counselling, which he did... then he stopped going.

 

This last Monday I was interviewed for a job and I didn't get it. I wasn't too bothered but I was very disappointed in my performance. It really knocked my confidence. Tuesday I did a 12 hour day at work as a busy period is coming up. I got in from work and I was tired.

 

You know, I work, I pay all the bills, I support H emotionally with his crap and the crap with his ex and the kids (and there has been a lot of that). I've given him a home and never asked for a dime towards bills - ever. I pay for his kids when they are here. All of this and he doesn't seek job seeker support he is eligible for.

 

So Tuesday night when I get home, after a little while of day to day catchup, he says to me 'I feel low' and I said 'why' he said didn't know - I felt a little aggrieved. I know he has had some difficulties - but you know he is at home and doing what the heck he wants basically... but it really felt like he was saying I just wasn't doing enough, not being supportive enough.

 

I can't do any more.... and I lost my cool. It has been many years since I lost my cool and I told him to tell me what exactly he has to be low about because he's taken care of mentally, physically and financially - its like a typical brattish desperate housewife. He has everything, including love and attention provided for him. But he somehow needed more I just didn't have it to give - but in addition he wont seek help and keeps expecting me to hold us both up. I can't. So I told him I can't - I will break with the strain. He didn't like that I told him he needs to get a grip and do his fair share in the relationship emotionally not just keep depending on me. I explained that he needed to also help himself and to get professional help because the strain is killing us both (this is without month in month out problems with his ex).

 

So yesterday he moved out - because he says - I'm a heartless bitch who doesn't care about him and kicked him whilst he was down. I can't believe it. I thought when you got married that you are supposed to work things out...? You don't just walk away when someone holds a mirror up and says take a look and fix it please...? Okay so I was harsh and I gave him a much needed kick up the arse because he is prone to woe-is-me victim zone. I don't want him wallowing and sinking all the time - I can identify with it - I have fought an aggressive cancer, had a brain injury, lost a child, relationship breakups - so I know trauma and devastation. It just really hurts that he just upped and left because he didn't like being told he's got to help himself.

 

So today he picked the rest of his stuff up and left his wedding ring and claddagh. He's not coming back - he's already redirected his post and phone bills. I have no idea how he is going to pay that. I'm his wife, so I put some money in his bank because he's not even claiming job seeker allowance and I have no idea what will happen to him. He's with his Mum and Dad so I guess they will take care of him. I just feel so broken.

 

He has text me this evening to say he loves me - if he loves me, why did he leave...? Why is he at his Mom's house instead of at home...? Sorry I'm weeping as I type. I worshipped the ground he walked on and now he's gone and not coming back. He's severed the bond we had and left the bands which bound the promises. I'm just devastated.

 

Thank you for reading so far.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Chinook

[dreamingoftigers]

In the book How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It, there is z lot of detail about what happens when men are shamed.

 

Chances are he already had a great deal of it from being a "kept man" and having been depressed.

 

I am not saying it is right. It just seems to be the case is all.

[Star Gazer]

I don't have any wise words, I'm just here to say I read it and feel heartbroken for you.

[Chinook]

But we spent a long time discussing how he could move on and get a job and in the end we approached it that he would stay home and I would work. It was a true partnership I thought. I even asked him could I spend money from my own bank account. I didn't shame him at all - when I asked him did he want to go back to work and would he prefer me to stay home, he said no. He liked being at home because he could do housework, gardening, walking, cycling and fishing. So I am not sure he was shamed really. I don't think so. This is what is so upsetting, to come home and be told he's low... so in addition to all of the above I can't make him happy. Like I said to him, only he can do that

[Chinook]

I don't have any wise words, I'm just here to say I read it and feel heartbroken for you.

Thank you Star Gazer, that means a lot. Its been a long time since I frequented Loveshack but it's nice to see a familiar name, thank you.

[dreamingoftigers]

We tend to do it in ways that we don't realize.

 

The list itself shocked me and he would probably be hyper-sensitive to it given the situation.

 

My guess is that he'll chill, grow up a minor bit. Either get back on his feet and then you might hear from him or if he chooses to stay down, he'll just wail about how it is "everyone else's fault."

 

I wasn't trying to shoulder the whole Blane for the marriage on you. Certainly not. Just trying to show what his perspective most likely is.

[dreamingoftigers]

And you are right, you cannot make him happy. He has to do that for himself.

 

Many people don't realize that and their intimate relations are really easy dumping grounds for blame.

[denise_xo]

But we spent a long time discussing how he could move on and get a job and in the end we approached it that he would stay home and I would work. It was a true partnership I thought. I even asked him could I spend money from my own bank account. I didn't shame him at all - when I asked him did he want to go back to work and would he prefer me to stay home, he said no. He liked being at home because he could do housework, gardening, walking, cycling and fishing. So I am not sure he was shamed really. I don't think so. This is what is so upsetting, to come home and be told he's low... so in addition to all of the above I can't make him happy. Like I said to him, only he can do that

 

I can relate to a lot of the things you write in relation to my own marriage. In terms of shame, the way I interpreted DOT's post (possibly incorrectly) was not about you shaming him, but the general shame a man will often feel when he is out of work and unable to contribute to a relationship, in turn resulting in depression, in turn resulting in the negative emotional patterns you describe, and so on. I lived with that for a long time, and like you I felt it was extremely exhausting (and it usually also becomes an extremely sensitive issue in a relationship).

 

The bolded bit is so true. In spite of how you are feeling now, this incident might have actually sparked something positive, in that he is taking more active charge of his situation. Perhaps it will channel a new phase of the relationship.

 

Best of luck and a big hug to you.

[Chinook]

We tend to do it in ways that we don't realize.

 

The list itself shocked me and he would probably be hyper-sensitive to it given the situation.

 

My guess is that he'll chill, grow up a minor bit. Either get back on his feet and then you might hear from him or if he chooses to stay down, he'll just wail about how it is "everyone else's fault."

 

I wasn't trying to shoulder the whole Blane for the marriage on you. Certainly not. Just trying to show what his perspective most likely is.

I know, I'm sorry I didn't mean to sound defensive. I just feel incredibly broken right now. I know what you mean - he does have a little bit of a history of identifying things as being everyone else's fault. I know I am not perfect - not by a long way - and I know that since my illness I find it hard to empathise with other people's difficulty - but fighting a cancer will do that for you. You can't not have the view of 'well if I can get through this, you can deal with that'. I know it shouldn't be like that but it is. In my view it's not the end of the world that he lost his job and he willingly gave up looking for another one. Plus we had talked previously about his neediness and his view of woe-is-me and he agreed he needed help. But he stopped going to counselling because he said he didn't need it. I'm just at my wits end because although I know my actions haven't helped... they were also one too many times of it and it hurts to have to be the carrier for both of you all the time.

[dreamingoftigers]

I know, I'm sorry I didn't mean to sound defensive. I just feel incredibly broken right now. I know what you mean - he does have a little bit of a history of identifying things as being everyone else's fault. I know I am not perfect - not by a long way - and I know that since my illness I find it hard to empathise with other people's difficulty - but fighting a cancer will do that for you. You can't not have the view of 'well if I can get through this, you can deal with that'. I know it shouldn't be like that but it is. In my view it's not the end of the world that he lost his job and he willingly gave up looking for another one. Plus we had talked previously about his neediness and his view of woe-is-me and he agreed he needed help. But he stopped going to counselling because he said he didn't need it. I'm just at my wits end because although I know my actions haven't helped... they were also one too many times of it and it hurts to have to be the carrier for both of you all the time.

 

I hear you, totally. Seriously.

 

Two things:

 

1. People who have not learned to be happy in themselves will blame everyone else. So obviously he ain't there yet.

 

2. Having dealt with a major illness is actually a unique opportunity to discover your internal strength so your emotional core has quite the capacity. (still sounds a little unhealed, stressed because you mentioned not being able to empathize anymore with his smaller situation) He clearly does not have the capacity that you have at this stage in the game, so yeah, he probably totally overloaded you.

 

I have a sneaky question to ask that to many may seem kinda heartless, but since you seem to have quite a bit of emotional fortitude you are probably going to get why I am asking:

 

Why did you carry both of you to the point where you kinda lost it?

Why did you carry him through his responsibilities?

[Chinook]

I hear you, totally. Seriously.

Thankyou.

 

Why did you carry both of you to the point where you kinda lost it?

Initially I didn't - it was a conversation which went on and eventually escalated and normally any other time, I am the person who smooths things out and who says 'look lets look at this realistically'. But he said I talk down to him and I really don't. I was really upset because this is the exact thing he told me that his ex said to him and he had never talked down to her. He couldn't see the role reversal. Also I wasn't flippant with him because of his situation - I understood his difficulties. But the empathy coming back the other way was zero. I had lost a job opportunity the day before which rocked my confidence and then I was tired due to a busy hard day. He questioned whether I was working at all when I wasn't replying to one of his text messages (the nature of my work with people means I can't just drop everything and reply right away). But during the conversation, I was made to feel that I'm not doing enough to support him and not doing enough to make him feel better. In the end, I had to tell him to get a grip.

 

Why did you carry him through his responsibilities?

Because when I was sick with cancer, my then partner walked away and abandoned me. I married my husband with the intention of committing through everything. So I was of the mind that if he was struggling, I would be there to support us both through hard times. I hoped that he would do the same for me if it was the other way around. I did it because I wanted to because I love him. Not because I felt I had to or should do. I felt it was my responsibility to step up as his partner and help him. I see now that was probably damaging. We had a conversation a while ago where he said he thinks I look down on him and I don't. But also, in the same conversation I said I feel that he puts me in charge by waiting for me to make decisions. So it's a two way thing. I don't look down on him, I simply make the decisions he can't or won't make - and that can be anything as simple as which TV channel to watch or what to have for dinner.

[dreamingoftigers]

So he kind of repeated a cycle for himself and hasn't taken responsibility. No kidding there.

 

I notice that people when stressed have those shorter fuses, etc.

 

His fuse seems quite short. (not referring to anger etc. Just any type of being overwhelmed).

 

I've got one like that too, conflict-avoidant. Sigh. Frustrating.

 

Basically, they act vague and do nothing for themselves and then whatever decisions you make were "controlling" or "not what they wanted." or "you are selfish."

 

I decided not to carry any decisions for my husband unless he could ask for what he wanted. I refuse to guess for him anymore.

 

He was pretty dependent. Couldn't even call and order pizza for himself.

 

It's a hard learning curb to not step in at seemingly crucial junctures.

 

Right now we owe his parents some money and he has assumed that I have dealt with arrangements, keeping in touch etc.

 

I have bluntly told him that he needs to ask for what he wants because I refuse to guess and be wrong.

 

He has had to do some dealing with his parents by himself. He can't rely on me to take care of all the household dealings.

 

I feel for you. You need to know that he would have pulled the ripcord on your marriage because he won't say the basics, and then shifts the blame to others for not doing what needs to be done.

 

In my case, I have had to shut my mouth about some pretty stupid stuff until he realizes that I won't nag or remind him of things. The bright side is that he starts doing more for himself and then feels better about himself.

 

But no one should have to go through that.

[Chinook]

Yea, I think you just about nailed it.

Thank you.

 

Sorry I can't type more. I need to get off here and stop weeping.

[Chinook]

I was just thinking in bed... that thing of him feeling I look down on him and he won't make decisions...? The thing is, if it is the other way around, where I am asking him to do things or if I'd been chasing him up to get a job, I would still have been wrong wouldn't I ...? Because that's nagging.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Chinook

[GorillaTheater]

I was just thinking in bed... that thing of him feeling I look down on him or won't make decisions...? The thing is, if it is the other way around, where I am asking him to do things or if I'd been chasing him up to get a job, I would still have been wrong wouldn't I ...? Because that's nagging.

 

Chinook, I'm guessing this has very little to do with you, including things you did or didn't say. This has a whole lot more to do with him: his shame, his feelings of inadequacy, his depression. He can't deal with his feelings, so he lashes out at the nearest person. But his recovery doesn't have much to so with you either; he'll either strive for it or he won't.

 

I'm sorry, Chinook. I think the best thing you can do at this point is to tell him you love him, that you're going to give him lots of space to sort things through, and give him that space.

[Chinook]

Chinook, I'm guessing this has very little to do with you, including things you did or didn't say. This has a whole lot more to do with him: his shame, his feelings of inadequacy, his depression. He can't deal with his feelings, so he lashes out at the nearest person. But his recovery doesn't have much to so with you either; he'll either strive for it or he won't.

 

I'm sorry, Chinook. I think the best thing you can do at this point is to tell him you love him, that you're going to give him lots of space to sort things through, and give him that space.

Oh god I can't stop weeping. This means he won't come back - he has already put the "she's such a bitch" armour on and loaded the "us families stick together" weaponry. He's never coming back. I feel so broken

[dreamingoftigers]

I didn't get that from what GT said.

 

I got the "give him space thing."

 

That thing works with guys for some strange, freaky reason.

 

You tell them, "I am going to respect your space so that you can sort things out."

 

And all of a sudden (a month of two down the road when they actually process what they heard, no offence guys) they pop back with open arms expecting a big reception.

 

Strange. But for some reason they respond to it.

[Chinook]

I didn't get that from what GT said.

 

I got the "give him space thing."

 

That thing works with guys for some strange, freaky reason.

 

You tell them, "I am going to respect your space so that you can sort things out."

 

And all of a sudden (a month of two down the road when they actually process what they heard, no offence guys) they pop back with open arms expecting a big reception.

 

Strange. But for some reason they respond to it.

No sorry - I cant think straight at the moment. I think I know what GT meant. It's just I was saying I know my H - he will bury himself in the "she's a bitch" thing

[dreamingoftigers]

Hardly sounds like a Knight in Shining armor.

 

No Offence, I know that we get attached.

 

Maybe you confused the Knight for the Dork in Tinfoil with all the issues?

 

Heartbreak is horrible, how did you two get together in the first place?

 

Were you in a vulnerable spot?

[Chinook]

I know this sounds incredibly naive (and I have to be honest, that's me all over) but he just wasn't like this when we started out. I guess I know he'll bury himself in the "she's a bitch" thing because I know how he has talked about XW1 and that breakup. I'm a big believer in recognising that we each have a part to play in things but when we were dating & I would ask about their split he would say what a bitch she was & she was seeing someone else during their marriage. To be fair to him I have seen a good deal of crap from her over the last year or so (oddly only since we married). But also when he lost his job he focused on the boss he had rather than the issue with the job. He did have grounds for tribunal which I helped him write up - so they reached a compromise. Other minor things are hard to describe but it's just he wasn't like this for over a year & half.

 

We reconnected through a school reunion - got talking & that followed by a few weeks on Facebook chatting until in the end I agreed to meet him for a drink. I don't think I was vulnerable. I quizzed him incessantly to make sure he was ready for a relationship because I knew that at 39 years of age I wasn't looking for a fling. He wasn't either. We were open & honest with each other about how we approached things. We went in eyes open & he was the first guy I didn't have to carry - simple things like when going out he'd book the restaurant & pick me up. I didn't have to decide. I'll be honest in recent weeks (mainly since the redundancy) all of that has changed & I find myself constantly making decisions to the point where I think " Jesus H, just make a feckin decision!" But like you said he comes back with "but I'm scared of doing the wrong thing, if I do this, you'll say that" etc & yet when I make the decisions or direct him, it's talking down to him or controlling him. I already have said to him "I'm not XW1" because I feel that his actions push me into being how she appeared to be with him. It's like a bad habit repeating itself & I didn't know it was there. All I know us that right now he doesn't see that he had any role in things going wrong. He sees he's the victim cos I was a bitch & kicked him when he was down - which to be fair, is the case but IMHO he was overdue a kick up the bum because in reality life doesn't happen for you when you sit around wallowing & moping & blaming everyone else.

[dreamingoftigers]

OMFG,

 

Wow, separated at birth I swear.

 

" I can't do this because you'll do that."

 

But I haven't done that EVER! ARG!

 

I am not her (in my husband's case, his mother).

 

Arg arg arg.

 

One year before we married as well. And yes they pass quizzes just fine.

 

That's the thing, we listen for the right words, not watch for the right moved for long enough. Minimum 18 months on an engagement.

 

They just are able to keep up the act for that.

 

Ever notice yourself saying: "don't you get why xyz is important?" and then they almost seem to parrot you right back at you, like quote you instead of having any sort of independent thought or reason on it.

 

Arg arg arg.

 

This one gets space, he'll pop back. Most likely. Mine's a little younger though and hasn't lost a wife (yet).

 

Dunno what to tell you luv. The signs came rolling in almost as soon as the ceremony was done. They get too trapped-feeling I guess. Odd they are, off they are.

 

They can be pretty intoxicating too. I feel that pain. When they love you, the world stops. Jeez, all that power and they can't order their own pizza.

[marlena]

Chinook,

 

I hear the panic in your voice. Try to calm down. I don't think this is the end of your marriage. I am quite sure he will be back in no time. The question is: if he does come back, will the crux problems of your marriage find a viable solution? How long are you willing to put up with being the sole breadwinner in the family?

 

I agree that your husband is most likely feeling like a failure as well as all the shame and self-loathing that are associated with this state of mind. When people are down on themselves, they do often tend to lash out at the people closest to them. Not fair, I know, but that's how it often is.

 

Is there any way he could land another job perhaps? Do something to boost his self-image and reinforce his confidence? When he was working, were things better?

 

Try to gain your self-control and think positive. I am sure this is not over. Marriages don;t end that easily. When you both calm down enough, ask to speak to him and see where that goes.

 

M

[Trimmer]

Chinook -

 

I may just be restating things that are already apparent to you, but in your husband's responses to his life situations, I see someone who focuses responsibility for the state of his life outward. If he got fired, it's his boss' responsibility. Not to say that he didn't have reason for complaint, but he doesn't seem to have a very keen ability to evaluate himself, and his contributions to things.

 

So in his recent difficulties, he may well have been upset, depressed, but once again, unable to thoughtfully examine his own part in both the problems and their possible solutions. So in spite of what seemed like a reasonable arrangement (him staying home as the "house-husband", etc.) I bet the stress and tension still continued to build up.

 

Then once you laid it out for him, you gave him just what he needed - a place to blame the responsibility for his own life situation. By casting you in the role of the heartless bitch who doesn't care, he has a repository for all the responsibility for his problems, and he has no need to self-examine, which, incidentally, may be why counseling didn't work well for him.

 

Now, I don't mean to make that sound like you did something wrong - I think he's just really lacking the ability to examine himself and the role he plays in his own life and his own problems, and he compensates for that, and relieves the stress that it causes, by focusing the responsibility for his problems at convenient outside targets. At the moment, you are that target - you are playing that role in his dynamic.

[marlena]

Chinook -

 

I may just be restating things that are already apparent to you, but in your husband's responses to his life situations, I see someone who focuses responsibility for the state of his life outward. If he got fired, it's his boss' responsibility. Not to say that he didn't have reason for complaint, but he doesn't seem to have a very keen ability to evaluate himself, and his contributions to things.

 

So in his recent difficulties, he may well have been upset, depressed, but once again, unable to thoughtfully examine his own part in both the problems and their possible solutions. So in spite of what seemed like a reasonable arrangement (him staying home as the "house-husband", etc.) I bet the stress and tension still continued to build up.

 

Then once you laid it out for him, you gave him just what he needed - a place to blame the responsibility for his own life situation. By casting you in the role of the heartless bitch who doesn't care, he has a repository for all the responsibility for his problems, and he has no need to self-examine, which, incidentally, may be why counseling didn't work well for him.

 

Now, I don't mean to make that sound like you did something wrong - I think he's just really lacking the ability to examine himself and the role he plays in his own life and his own problems, and he compensates for that, and relieves the stress that it causes, by focusing the responsibility for his problems at convenient outside targets. At the moment, you are that target - you are playing that role in his dynamic.

 

I agree with all of this. He is projecting his own failures, inadequacies and complexes onto you. As Trimmer pointed out, it is a denial thing. So much easier to blame others! Many people do this. It is a common defense mechanism.

 

I say, like Gorilla pointed out, let him simmer in his juices for a while. Allow him time to reflect and then, when/if he is ready to talk openly and maturely, try to sort things out.

[Chinook]

OMFG,

 

Wow, separated at birth I swear.

 

" I can't do this because you'll do that."

 

But I haven't done that EVER! ARG!

 

I am not her (in my husband's case, his mother).

 

Arg arg arg.

 

One year before we married as well. And yes they pass quizzes just fine.

 

That's the thing, we listen for the right words, not watch for the right moved for long enough. Minimum 18 months on an engagement.

 

They just are able to keep up the act for that.

 

Ever notice yourself saying: "don't you get why xyz is important?" and then they almost seem to parrot you right back at you, like quote you instead of having any sort of independent thought or reason on it.

 

Arg arg arg.

 

This one gets space, he'll pop back. Most likely. Mine's a little younger though and hasn't lost a wife (yet).

 

Dunno what to tell you luv. The signs came rolling in almost as soon as the ceremony was done. They get too trapped-feeling I guess. Odd they are, off they are.

 

They can be pretty intoxicating too. I feel that pain. When they love you, the world stops. Jeez, all that power and they can't order their own pizza.

 

Yes, all of this was true for me too

There were some things which I put down to his previous experience with his ex but in retrospect, the chances are their problems developed exactly as ours have (although she and I have very different personalities, it's interesting that we're both very strong women).