Deciphering the mOW's words: It's possible to hurt someone and still love them.

[Severely Unamused]

Something that my WH's affair partner said really fascinated me, when I managed to get in contact with her around a week ago.

 

"It's possible to hurt someone, and still love them."

 

What do you think? Truth? Guilt easer? A bit of both?

 

I was thinking about my own predicament, as well as the mOW's situation. I believe that she does love her BH intensely (of course, she could have been trying to garner my sympathy but I'll never really know), but at the same time feels physically, emotionally and sexually deprived due to his long absences. Then I raised this question to her: Despite neglecting you for so long, do you think that your husband loves you as much as you love him?

 

In my husband's case, he has still been unable to give me an answer as to why he had the affair in the first place (especially at the worst time possible), but he says that he loves me. I believe that he is telling the truth but I also think that the notion that love is only one aspect of a healthy relationship is important.

 

And then I look at my own actions. I began completely invading his privacy and transferring money from our joint accounts as soon as I found out about his affair, instead of talking to him first. Entirely for my own benefit. Yet I still love him.

 

What is the correlation between love and pain?

 

If you look at fiction for instance, you will perhaps notice how prevalent the love martyr is. I have observed that some APs on this board and in my own life, seem to display similar self-sacrificing traits, either in the past or present. Where do you think that you fall there?

 

Then I also think about people that are in abusive relationships. I sometimes wonder whether my parents genuinely love each other, but are simply incapable of showing it to each other in a healthy manner due to their own personal problems.

 

This next bit is kind of a touchy subject so I'll try and tread lightly: For those APs that have been hurt by their MPs, do you think that there was genuine love involved? Were the circumstances not in your favour? Or were personal problems involved? Both?

 

Your opinions, ladies and gents.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Severely Unamused

[Minnie09]

I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for (probably not, and I'm sorry), and it only covers one aspect of your post: the love word. I think the love word/love itself is overrated. Does it even exist? And if so, what does it mean?

 

My xH who was abusive and a cheater used to tell me several times that we hurt the ones we love the most. From that time on, I have had a difficult time believing and understanding the love concept. He used it merely to justify his actions and I simply call bull**** on that.

 

If your H loves you, he shows you respect. After the A, he tries to accommodate you and your needs and nothing else. Mine never did. He wanted to press the reset button fast, and then hear nothing about it anymore. No respect for my feelings and my pain and my healing. No respect means no love.

 

Don't know about your H's OW. I think it's great for you to exchange your thoughts with her. But love for her H? Where's the respect? Again, that's a biggie for me. A one-time slip. Fine. An A? Disrespectful.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Minnie09

[Severely Unamused]

I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for (probably not, and I'm sorry), and it only covers one aspect of your post: the love word. I think the love word/love itself is overrated. Does it even exist? And if so, what does it mean?

 

My xH who was abusive and a cheater used to tell me several times that we hurt the ones we love the most. From that time on, I have had a difficult time believing and understanding the love concept. He used it merely to justify his actions and I simply call bull**** on that.

 

If your H loves you, he shows you respect. After the A, he tries to accommodate you and your needs and nothing else. Mine never did. He wanted to press the reset button fast, and then hear nothing about it anymore. No respect for my feelings and my pain and my healing. No respect means no love.

 

Don't know about your H's OW. I think it's great for you to exchange your thoughts with her. But love for her H? Where's the respect? Again, that's a biggie for me. A one-time slip. Fine. An A? Disrespectful.

 

Good points.

 

I find the idea of "love" to be a painfully vague as well. But I do agree with the idea of respect. After the initial emotional disconnection that came with the discovery of my husband's affair, I can safely say that I did not respect him for a while.

 

I believe that in his case, it wasn't outright contemptuous disrespect towards me, but the simple idea that his desires were more important than my own well-being. I suppose that you could say that selfishness and disrespect are very well connected.

 

As for the mOW and her BH...I don't ever want to think about that dung heap (in her words too).

 

So we can postulate that emotional pain and disrespect are connected?

Edited August 27, 2011 by Severely Unamused

[Silly_Girl]

Something that my WH's affair partner said really fascinated me, when I managed to get in contact with her around a week ago.

 

"It's possible to hurt someone, and still love them."

 

What do you think? Truth? Guilt easer? A bit of both?

 

I was thinking about my own predicament, as well as the mOW's situation. I believe that she does love her BH intensely (of course, she could have been trying to garner my sympathy but I'll never really know), but at the same time feels physically, emotionally and sexually deprived due to his long absences. Then I raised this question to her: Despite neglecting you for so long, do you think that your husband loves you as much as you love him?

 

In my husband's case, he has still been unable to give me an answer as to why he had the affair in the first place (especially at the worst time possible), but he says that he loves me. I believe that he is telling the truth but I also think that the notion that love is only one aspect of a healthy relationship is important.

 

And then I look at my own actions. I began completely invading his privacy and transferring money from our joint accounts as soon as I found out about his affair, instead of talking to him first. Entirely for my own benefit. Yet I still love him.

 

What is the correlation between love and pain?

 

If you look at fiction for instance, you will perhaps notice how prevalent the love martyr is. I have observed that some APs on this board and in my own life, seem to display similar self-sacrificing traits, either in the past or present. Where do you think that you fall there?

 

Then I also think about people that are in abusive relationships. I sometimes wonder whether my parents genuinely love each other, but are simply incapable of showing it to each other in a healthy manner due to their own personal problems.

 

This next bit is kind of a touchy subject so I'll try and tread lightly: For those APs that have been hurt by their MPs, do you think that there was genuine love involved? Were the circumstances not in your favour? Or were personal problems involved? Both?

 

Your opinions, ladies and gents.

 

I do think it's possible to love someone and hurt them. In fact I believe it's hard to have a long term meaningful relationship and NOT hurt your partner at some point. Not necessarily with any magnitude, but relationships include hurt, disappointment, compromise. The hurt may not be infidelity. A couple I'm close to fell pregnant accidentally and the fallout was huge when one wanted to keep the baby and one wanted to abort, the former was tremendously hurt and temporarily bitter, too.

 

You don't seem to question your husband's love for you, so it seems perhaps you already accept that it's possible to act against someone yet still value and love them. Consciousness of thought and awareness of consequences are handy little things to have, but we don't all call on them at all times, and men in particular seem to have a knack of compartmentalising and shutting off their brain to certain things and thoughts.

[TurboGirl]

Of course it is true.

 

You obviously were not meant to find out about the OW now, were you? If he didn't love you, he would not have been careful and secretive... (albeit he didn't get that part quite right, because you did find out...)

 

So you think a little privacy invasion and moving money around was a big deal? You were hurt and p*****, so really NOT a big deal. A revenge A would be a big deal.

 

There could be numerous reasons "why" your H had an affair. Are you prepared to hear them? He might not be able to form the answers into words for you, because he might not really know himself, what really made him have an A. Might take some counseling to get to the real issues.

[SoMovinOn]

Of course, you can *only* be hurt by someone you love, or at least care about. You have no expectations of those you don't love or care about, so, they cannot hurt you.

 

So, I think the question would most correctly be - can someone continue to love you after they have hurt you?

 

In a case of romantic love... I would have to say, it is possible... BUT...

 

I define love as giving - it's what you give to someone else, without regard to getting anything in return. Love is selfless. With romantic love, you put your SO above everyone and everything else.

 

Can someone do those things and hurt you at the same time? Sure - through a careless error, a lapse in judgement... people make mistakes. You can certainly love someone and screw up. ... but because you put them above everyone and everything else, you'd do what you needed to avoid making that same mistake.

 

So then, let's consider an A ... it's an ongoing thing. It's making the same "mistake" over and over again, intentionally. It is knowingly hurting your spouse, repeatedly . It is putting someone else above your spouse. It is an "error" which you compound with ongoing lies and deceit. It is everything that love is not. How then can one claim to still love their spouse in that situation?

[OnyxSnowfall]

Love. Love is something generated within an individual. Whether they're expressing it for someone else or "receiving" it from someone else.

 

Sometimes an individual cannot express it in a way that someone else can perceive/receive... and while the person for whom it is being vainly expressed to may not "feel" loved... they are (but what good does it do for that person?) Ideally expressions of love are sculpted in ways that can be interpreted... and in general, inflicting intentional pain on someone and or doing something carelessly that hurts them can be harder to fathom as a form of love...

 

I would say there's a myriad of types of love though.

 

A more evolved form of love is selfless.........

something that transcends someone's "own" love of themselves.

it is still related to their self... it is their self that realizes a love of something greater than it. Whether it's another person or even a cause.

 

We can knowingly hurt those we love because, while we may have affections for that person... and while we may even wish them well and *no* harm, we ultimately value our self above them... that is my take on it anyway.

Edited August 28, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[Severely Unamused]

I do think it's possible to love someone and hurt them. In fact I believe it's hard to have a long term meaningful relationship and NOT hurt your partner at some point.

How much pain should we have to put up with, in the name of love? Everybody has different tolerance levels of course, and it is up to each individual to decide what they are willing to risk.

 

It seems that one of the more complicated aspects of human relationships is the dichotomy of giving (potential pain- i.e. "hurt, disappointment, compromise". But also selflessness) and receiving (potential gain). Agreed?

 

You obviously were not meant to find out about the OW now, were you? If he didn't love you, he would not have been careful and secretive... (albeit he didn't get that part quite right, because you did find out...)

 

So you think a little privacy invasion and moving money around was a big deal? You were hurt and p*****, so really NOT a big deal. A revenge A would be a big deal.

I've been thinking a lot about the past month, and it has helped me to understand the value of loyalty, honesty, and respect in any relationship, and how quickly it can all collapse.

 

How then can one claim to still love their spouse in that situation?

I think a lot of it has to do with the vagueness of the term love.

 

An example of how varied love can be: My parents were capable of treating both each other and me, with immense kindness and selflessness, but also incredible cruelty. I think that they do love each other, even today (although, in their own words, they never loved me). But just as you have defined love as selflessness, they defined love as acceptance of their own cruelty towards each other. That was their own form of selflessness.

 

My belief is that for the WSs that still love their BSs on some level, the love they feel becomes "twisted". Different from what it was prior to the affair.

 

I would say there's a myriad of types of love though.

True. And that is ultimately why I question the validity of what mOW said. Edited August 28, 2011 by Severely Unamused
Tired.