How can a nice guy learn to be a bad boy?

[dasein]

I love how some guys here talk like guys don't do the same thing - fool around with the hotties or sluttier girls and then marry the good, wife material girl.

 

Guys do that s**t too.

 

There is no double standard. Not going to type out all the reasons why because it is wasting my typing; too many "brick walls" here on LS.

 

Where men get most frustrated is in the realization that the behavior by women, sleeping with unattainable studs while accepting courtship, often expensive courtship, while not sleeping with more tame relationship/marriage prospects, is simultaneous for the most part, she is doing it all at the same time. Men wake up and realize that it's a no-brainer, be a seducer/ladies' man and suffer no risk, or be the straightforward sincere guy, suffer ALL the risk, and have a lesser chance of having desires met. Women, not men, turned it into a zero sum game of measuring probabilities and risk by their steadfast insistence that it's their right to be thoroughly inconsistent in their sexual and dating behavior and that men must accept that.

Edited August 30, 2011 by dasein

[Content]

I dont think most sane women want bad boys some bad boys hide their bad boyness early on and fool the women

 

OR i have a friend whos kind of a narcisists arrogant and egotistical but women flock him becasue hes etxremely good looking and sucessful, women will put up with a lot form a guy if hes a top 10% of Men in looks and sucess

[Elysian Powder]

There is no double standard. Not going to type out all the reasons why because it is wasting my typing; too many "brick walls" here on LS.

 

Where men get most frustrated is in the realization that the behavior by women, sleeping with unattainable studs while accepting courtship, often expensive courtship, while not sleeping with more tame relationship/marriage prospects, is simultaneous for the most part, she is doing it all at the same time. Men wake up and realize that it's a no-brainer, be a seducer/ladies' man and suffer no risk, or be the straightforward sincere guy, suffer ALL the risk, and have a lesser chance of having desires met. Women, not men, turned it into a zero sum game of measuring probabilities and risk by their steadfast insistence that it's their right to be thoroughly inconsistent in their sexual and dating behavior and that men must accept that.

 

 

Yap. Some of the men decide to become Casanovas; the others end up shunning women and becoming life long consumers of what Sasha Gray provides. It explains why there are many women so bitter against porn - how can they cash out on the man's sexual drive?

 

Like many men will use a woman's feelings to get poon without paying for it.

 

Users and abusers. How wonderful.

[SteveC80]

Ladies tell me if you agree with this..

 

I dont know if its women bad guys per se but a lot of masculine traits can also be associated in some cases with borderline bad/rude behavior and for some women its a fine line to whats masculine and when it goes overboard..

 

While women say they dont like self absorbed narcisists some of the traits those type of guys display can be construed as masculine and a turn on to women..

 

A friend of mine i would consider shallow egotistical bordering on naricisism, i remember having a convo with a few women about why some men get women and some cant,they used my friend as an example of why women like him and they said its because he seems very mascualine and fertile and viral

 

So why he might be a jerk he has alot of traits that women are bioligcially programmed to be turned on by so they might fele the need to want to jump his mascuilne bones but also have to consider other traits his "over masculinity my bring

[wezol]

By the way some confuse door mat with nice guy, That is not always true.

You can be nice and accept no BS from women.

 

Yeap, some women mistake kindness for weakness.

[somethingsimple]

I might be the minority here, I have no problem getting women or sex. Believe me its not as glamorous as one would think. However, if I had to choose I would rather be the "bad boy" than the "nice guy". On the contrary, if I had the option to decide between several flings and one girl. Ultimately, I would always choose one girl.

 

I believe in love, and the true love for that matters and want to fall for it. When I chase women, when I play the game, I almost always get the girl, but I lose my emotions in the process. Reason being, I have to disassociate my emotions to get her. If I lead by emotions, I get burned.

 

I know, get the girl first, then fall in love after. It's not that simple. After, I switch to the "player" mindset emotions for the girl goes out the door.

 

While, most nice guy's know by leading from emotion, almost always leads to getting burned.

 

The solution? Wait, for the right girl...but for some it can take forever and for most it may never come at all

[betterdeal]

Just go to a dance. Any kind of dance. Learn to dance.

[udolipixie]

There is no double standard. Not going to type out all the reasons why because it is wasting my typing; too many "brick walls" here on LS.

 

Where men get most frustrated is in the realization that the behavior by women, sleeping with unattainable studs while accepting courtship, often expensive courtship, while not sleeping with more tame relationship/marriage prospects, is simultaneous for the most part, she is doing it all at the same time.

How is that any different from a guy slutting about or using/abusing girls while looking for his good girl?

 

 

 

Men wake up and realize that it's a no-brainer, be a seducer/ladies' man and suffer no risk, or be the straightforward sincere guy, suffer ALL the risk, and have a lesser chance of having desires met.

Oh that's right the difference is guys get a no risk option while girls get either be used/be labeled a slut or be the gf/wife material waiting for the guys your age to be done with their fun. And if you don't want to wait your options are older guys or guys you're not attracted to.

Women, not men, turned it into a zero sum game of measuring probabilities and risk by their steadfast insistence that it's their right to be thoroughly inconsistent in their sexual and dating behavior and that men must accept that.

 

 

Men also have this inconstinent sexual/dating behavior of having fun in their youth then settling down when older that women must accept. But oh joy let's ignore that and make it seem like a woman doing the same thing is worst and the male is the victim

[udolipixie]

@Elysian Powder

Exactly you got my points.

 

With the fact most women are more forgiving about sexual past mistakes, porn, and aging benefits guys have nothing to whine about dating wise.

[Red Arremer]

Just go to a dance. Any kind of dance. Learn to dance.

 

Dancing is pretty much the most annoying thing in the world to me. If I had to choose between going to dance lessons for a few months or shooting myself in the foot, I would reach for the nearest pistol with very slight hesitation. I'm not kidding.

[Zaphod B]

Interesting. I personally would be extremely turned off by that kind of behaviour.

 

Ha ha. I think I would love it!

[Zaphod B]

I feel bad for hijacking this thread. Perhaps I should start my own...

 

I don't feel that you're hijacking it. I think it's all very relevent and I've been enjoying reading the discussion.

[betterdeal]

Dancing is pretty much the most annoying thing in the world to me. If I had to choose between going to dance lessons for a few months or shooting myself in the foot, I would reach for the nearest pistol with very slight hesitation. I'm not kidding.

 

Too bad for you - all the more girls for me!

[Woggle]

Women who settle down with the nice guy after years of chasing bad boys never really lust for them and cheat on them with the bad boys. This is why I really can't get mad at players. Sure it's wrong but women reward it over and over again.

[udolipixie]

Women who settle down with the nice guy after years of chasing bad boys never really lust for them and cheat on them with the bad boys. This is why I really can't get mad at players. Sure it's wrong but women reward it over and over again.

 

Just like I don't get mad when women use men after all the men are rewarding this behavior.

[grkBoy]

Women who settle down with the nice guy after years of chasing bad boys never really lust for them and cheat on them with the bad boys. This is why I really can't get mad at players. Sure it's wrong but women reward it over and over again.

 

Don't hate the playa, hate the game basically.

 

I think the only time though a guy will know his woman "settled" for him is when she shows it. Many times, even the longtime bad boy chasers end up finally getting burned so badly that they completely rethink it all. Suddenly they don't see the "bad boys" as attractive anymore, but instead think "I was so stupid...what was I thinking?"

 

The man they choose ends up not being "settling for him", but more figuring it out on who would actually be there for her in the long haul.

 

Believe me, the ones who still want the bad boys, but "settle" on a "nice guy" are the ones who show it easily when she won't sleep with her husband or even spend time with him...when it seems he's just a home and food for her. The guys who pick those women bring their misery on themselves.

 

Experience though showed me that women who grow older and still want "bad men" never "settle"...they just keep trying and trying to tame one.

 

 

Just be careful not to fall into the trap where you see every woman as "sloppy seconds". Every girl out there encounters a jerk or playa at least once in her life. Don't punish someone for a few mistakes...just walk away from the ones who have made an absolute disaster of their lives with a chain of bad decisions.

[Woggle]

Don't hate the playa, hate the game basically.

 

I think the only time though a guy will know his woman "settled" for him is when she shows it. Many times, even the longtime bad boy chasers end up finally getting burned so badly that they completely rethink it all. Suddenly they don't see the "bad boys" as attractive anymore, but instead think "I was so stupid...what was I thinking?"

 

The man they choose ends up not being "settling for him", but more figuring it out on who would actually be there for her in the long haul.

 

Believe me, the ones who still want the bad boys, but "settle" on a "nice guy" are the ones who show it easily when she won't sleep with her husband or even spend time with him...when it seems he's just a home and food for her. The guys who pick those women bring their misery on themselves.

 

Experience though showed me that women who grow older and still want "bad men" never "settle"...they just keep trying and trying to tame one.

 

 

Just be careful not to fall into the trap where you see every woman as "sloppy seconds". Every girl out there encounters a jerk or playa at least once in her life. Don't punish someone for a few mistakes...just walk away from the ones who have made an absolute disaster of their lives with a chain of bad decisions.

 

I agree but women who show a long history of drama addiction pretty much are awful relationship prospects. You simply can't have a healthy relationship with a woman who makes a habit out of chasing after bad boys.

[Zaphod B]

TigerClub, the thing is, I am dating women in their late 30s and early 40s. They still seem to want the bad boys! So when do women grow out of this? When they’re 50 or 60? LOL. From what I have been finding out is that woman who liked bad boys when they were young and now claim to have “grown out” of bad boys, still actually want bad boys deep down. They just want bad boys who are bad to everyone else but nice to them. And I’m pretty sure no such man exists. A bad boy is bad to EVERYONE!

 

You also say: “ isn't a good guy looking for one night stands = a bad boy?” Funny, this year I’ve been having a lot of fun and I hit the town every second Sat night. Really want to have a one-night stand, but yet I still don’t see myself as a bad boy. The thing is even though I want to have some fun, I don’t want to hurt anybody and ultimately I’m still looking for that special woman.

 

SelfControl, you have really given me some food for thought with the whole “Gentleman” thing. I reckon I can be that, especially as I am getting better and better at identifying game players.

 

Pierre, yes, I have heard that advice before about making yourself unavailable. That’s a hard one for me because when I meet a woman I really like I want to be with her as much as I possibly can. So I make myself available. It would be very hard for me to say no. But I think you have hit on something that I need to seriously take into consideration. I can see how I could easily use that strategy without feeling like too much of a jerk. Here’s a scenario for you. I love playing Texas Holdem Poker and go to bars to play (for free). If a woman wanted to see me on Poker night should I say “No, I’m playing Poker that night?” To me that seems like a really lousy excuse not to go out with her. But then it might be what a bad boy might do and it would certainly be “making myself unavailable”. What do you reckon?

 

Elysian Powder Make friends with douchebags? You may be onto something there, but the problem is guys like that just piss me off. I don’t know if I could be friends with such people. Ha ha.

 

Fortyninethousand322 I have to go along with you say. I agree that if I’m not good enough for a woman now, then I’m not good enough for them later.

 

Oaks Absolute BS? Wow, what a great contribution to the thread. You are a helpful type of guy/girl, aren’t you? Obviously it’s not BS, because you weren’ t able to come up with anything sensible or logical to refute it, just a blatant contradiction. Try again.

 

Grkboy Thanks so much you have really taken a lot of time and effort to respond. You’ve given me some good things to think about there and I do have the problems you have identified. Part of my problem I have is I did get a girlfriend two years ago, who was extremely hot and desirable. Although I didn’t manage to keep her, it made me realize that I don’t have to settle for average. It’s hard, because I know I could be missing out, but the benchmark is already raised and it’s hard to lower it back down. You are right too about me wanting to find a long term relationship, but I’m also after some fun along the way.

 

Red Arremer makes a great point in that many of the replies on this thread are geared towards striving for a long term relationship, which is great, helpful and ultimately what I want, but I’m also keen on just having fun. I was very religious up until 5 years ago and never really got in the dating scene that I am now. I married my first girlfriend, someone I met through church. There is certainly a desire now to go out and have fun and have lots of flings and one night stands, at least until I come across a keeper. I never did that when I was a young adult. But I don’t want to use and abuse anyone.

 

Everyone else. I really appreciate the replies. I have read them all and will continue to read them. The great thing about this site is you can post your issues here and very few people are judgemental and they make an effort to give good advice. Thank you all.

[Woggle]

I will never understand the logic of wanting somebody who treats everybody but you like garbage. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[iris219]

No need to be a bad boy. Just don’t be “average.” Average is such a turn-off. (In terms of physical appearance, I prefer below average if you have an interesting look.) Be unique in your style, interests, opinions, wit, humor, and how you convey your thoughts, and you’ll do just fine.

 

I meet a lot of guys who are blah, but perfectly nice. You have to do something to stand out and be memorable. A woman needs to find you interesting. Nice and interesting are not the same thing, but can (and should) coexist.

[Woggle]

Bad boys are average as well. They are a dime a dozen and usually look the same.

[dasein]

How is that any different from a guy slutting about or using/abusing girls while looking for his good girl?

 

Two big ways, he isn't expecting the good girl to pay the expenses of courtship and the behavior is only available to 5-10% of men, not average men. OTOH, it's available to pretty much all average women.

 

[/b]Oh that's right the difference is guys get a no risk option while girls get either be used/be labeled a slut or be the gf/wife material waiting for the guys your age to be done with their fun. And if you don't want to wait your options are older guys or guys you're not attracted to.

 

All the woman's options in early dating/courtship are low risk. Men pay for most early dates and spend more time pursuing. Have already said there is no double standard because the genders are completely different sexually. Average women can get sex with an acceptable partner whenever they want, average men have little control over which of their courtship efforts will result in sex.

 

Men also have this inconstinent sexual/dating behavior of having fun in their youth then settling down when older that women must accept.

 

For the 5% of men with the same sexual options and availability as 70-80% of women, the same standards apply, no argument there.

[rafallus]

Bad boys are average as well. They are a dime a dozen and usually look the same.

Main point: their lifestyle is not.

 

So you can isolate excitement from their lifestyle and not be afraid to rock the boat, not necessarily turning bad in the process.

[Woggle]

Main point: their lifestyle is not.

 

So you can isolate excitement from their lifestyle and not be afraid to rock the boat, not necessarily turning bad in the process.

 

Their lifestyle is very average. Why do you think the prisons are overcrowded?

[oaks]

Oaks Absolute BS? Wow, what a great contribution to the thread. You are a helpful type of guy/girl, aren’t you? Obviously it’s not BS, because you weren’ t able to come up with anything sensible or logical to refute it, just a blatant contradiction. Try again.

 

You made the assertion with no supporting evidence and then tried to close down any counter argument by saying that anyone who disagrees must be in denial, and your assertion didn't seem to be the main point of your post (which was about how to become a bad boy, I think), so I didn't see any need to go in to detail. I must be one of those people who you say are in denial, but I'd like to think that I'm a nice guy who isn't finishing last.

 

Lots of people finish last, or lower down the order than they would like. I don't think it's being "nice" that is the cause.

 

Nice guys finishing last is a fairly common theme on this forum - it's been debated before many times - so I apologise for giving you the abridged form of my view on it.