How can a nice guy learn to be a bad boy?

[AHardDaysNight]

The right kind of woman won't want this. Only the kind of women that are mentally damaged.

 

If that's your bag, so be it. But I'd rather be alone than be with someone who is mentally insufficient to carry a conversation or relationship.

[betterdeal]

Anyway, you have your answer - you gave it in your opening and subsequent posts. It's about evolution and survival of the fittest. So you know what it takes to appeal to these women you fancy, so go and do whatever it is you know they want you to do, to be.

 

What's stopping you?

[grkBoy]

I agree but women who show a long history of drama addiction pretty much are awful relationship prospects. You simply can't have a healthy relationship with a woman who makes a habit out of chasing after bad boys.

 

That's pretty much what I've been saying, so we're on the same page.

 

 

Grkboy Thanks so much you have really taken a lot of time and effort to respond. You’ve given me some good things to think about there and I do have the problems you have identified. Part of my problem I have is I did get a girlfriend two years ago, who was extremely hot and desirable. Although I didn’t manage to keep her, it made me realize that I don’t have to settle for average. It’s hard, because I know I could be missing out, but the benchmark is already raised and it’s hard to lower it back down. You are right too about me wanting to find a long term relationship, but I’m also after some fun along the way.

 

You're looking at it the wrong way though.

 

I've known very "average" women who managed to get a one night stand with some super-hot "upper echelon" guys. Almost immediately they let it go to their heads and now believe they are the women who can land these "upper echelon" as boyfriends or even husbands.

 

Now they suddenly think "average joes" are "not good enough" and chase every "upper echelon" guy they meet...but all those guys only see them as "good for sex", but they never commit. Even then those guys are chasing the "upper echelon" women and attempting to make those women into wives.

 

You need to stop equating just physical looks and shallow things like that as the "goal". If you ever saw the movie Clerks, the main character was dating a pretty, but "average" looking woman who cared about him, but he couldn't let go of the hotter looking woman who only cheated and played games with him. In the end even he wrecked his relationship with his girlfriend when he tried to rekindle his past mess with the ex.

 

If you want to be single, have some fun, put on the "game" and land some tail, do it...just don't lead on any women and thus make more "messed up" females who don't trust men. If you want to find that LTR though, you need to think way more than just looks.

 

So you got into a short thing with a hot girl, it doesn't mean you should only chase hot girls and not average ones. Look where you're at now. How has raising the bar made your dating any better? If all you see of the "hot girls" is they want bad boys, jerks, or "upper echelon" men...then you either have to focus on becoming an "upper echelon" man, or rethink your selection criteria.

 

Like I tell the women, it applies to the men too. Selection standards are only good if you can attain such a person. If none of those people are looking your way, then you set the bar too high.

 

 

No need to be a bad boy. Just don’t be “average.” Average is such a turn-off. (In terms of physical appearance, I prefer below average if you have an interesting look.) Be unique in your style, interests, opinions, wit, humor, and how you convey your thoughts, and you’ll do just fine.

 

I meet a lot of guys who are blah, but perfectly nice. You have to do something to stand out and be memorable. A woman needs to find you interesting. Nice and interesting are not the same thing, but can (and should) coexist.

 

I agree. I rememeber walking into clubs full of guys who were all athletic, good looking, etc...but they all dressed alike and sounded the same. It's no wonder women who were with me found those guys "boring".

 

Many like the diamond in the rough over a Ken doll sitting on a shelf full of Ken dolls.

[EasyHeart]

Here’s a scenario for you. I love playing Texas Holdem Poker and go to bars to play (for free). If a woman wanted to see me on Poker night should I say “No, I’m playing Poker that night?” To me that seems like a really lousy excuse not to go out with her. But then it might be what a bad boy might do and it would certainly be “making myself unavailable”. What do you reckon?

Ummm. . . yeah.

 

Frankly, that one should be a no-brainer. "Nope, that my poker night" is absolutely a valid reason not to see a woman, and (here's the important part) no woman who's worth dating would ever be upset that you can't go out because it's your poker night. It isn't a matter of whether it's a valid "excuse" or being a "bad boy", it's a simple matter of respect and common courtesy.

 

PS: If having a life and making other plans is the definition of a "bad boy", then I'm not only bad, I'm downright EVIL!!!

[GoodOnPaper]

Selection standards are only good if you can attain such a person. If none of those people are looking your way, then you set the bar too high.

 

As practical and widely seen as this advice is . . . it's also very depressing. Committing yourself to a relationship with someone primarily because you don't think you'll do any better isn't as fun as you might think it would be. Must a regular guy have to choose between experiencing attraction and exceeding his "league"? There has to be another way to look at this. I've read "don't date a woman because she's hot, date her because she's cool" in the No More Mr. Nice Guy literature. I like that it starts to get you thinking a little deeper. It doesn't get one all the way to the there's-someone-for-everyone mindset -- after all, if I think a woman is exceptionally cool, so will a million other guys -- but at least it's more positive.

[grkBoy]

As practical and widely seen as this advice is . . . it's also very depressing. Committing yourself to a relationship with someone primarily because you don't think you'll do any better isn't as fun as you might think it would be. Must a regular guy have to choose between experiencing attraction and exceeding his "league"? There has to be another way to look at this. I've read "don't date a woman because she's hot, date her because she's cool" in the No More Mr. Nice Guy literature. I like that it starts to get you thinking a little deeper. It doesn't get one all the way to the there's-someone-for-everyone mindset -- after all, if I think a woman is exceptionally cool, so will a million other guys -- but at least it's more positive.

 

Right, but you're still seeing it all as "lowering the bar and settling for less"...when it actuality it's more "coming down to reality and being realistic".

 

I agree with dating someone because they're "cool"...but men and women both need to "get it" that "cool" doesn't mean that person will look amazingly beautiful. "Cool" doesn't mean he/she will be wealthy and/or successful.

 

Whenever I meet any man or woman who laments on how they can't find a "decent person", I usually look at WHO they're pursuing, and how high have they set the bar. 9 out of 10 times they have set the bar too high. It'll be the cocktail waitress who is pretty, but nothing else...and she's hoping a doctor or lawyer making 6-7 figures, living an exciting life, will sweep her off her feet and take care of her. It'll be the bland-looking nice guy who seemingly doesn't notice the girl next door as he keeps chasing after the aspiring models hanging out in the club scene.

 

I still hear stories of men and women who move to small towns and then lament on how all the available single people are ugly and "all the good ones are taken". Even more on the guys who lament on how all the single women they meet now are either ugly and/or a single mom.

 

As far as I'm concerned, then you have three choices:

 

1. Take one of those people
   
2. Choose to remain single and die alone
   
3. Widen your search criteria...perhaps even distance.
   

So if this person is irked because all the single folk in their little town are ugly, but won't date someone who lives more than 30 min away, then they made their choice. They set the bar high enough and thus limited themselves.

 

I live in a major city, but at one point I was totally willing to go long distance, then I changed that and decided I'd rather die alone than be with someone I'm not into. I made my choice.

 

The key point is unless the person is willing to die alone, they should not set the bar too high...period. If Zaphod B is constantly getting rejected by all the "hot" women he's chasing, then he's got three choices:

 

1. Lower the bar and chase "average" looking women
   
2. Choose to remain alone until Ms Perfect comes along, even if she never does
   
3. Widen the distance he will go to get a hot woman
   

Everyone hates that word "settle", but we've come to define it now as "anything that isn't 'above average'", and that's why dating is such a mess now.

 

We are a world of average people, but everyone keeps pining for a minority of the populace they've put on pedestals. Men and women.

[AHardDaysNight]

Very true, grk.

 

I am as guilty of this as anyone, but the truth of the matter is, if you're not good looking, you shouldn't expect a supermodel to fall head over heels in love with you.

 

That just doesn't happen, outside of the movies.

 

That being said, there are plenty of average looking women who get ignored, so being the "nice, passive friend" to a good looking girl, all the while ignoring her plain looking friend...well, that serves to only frustrate you, the good looking girl, and her plain looking friend. Nobody wins, and everybody loses, especially you.

[stillafool]

a 43 year old bad boy is called an underachiever!

 

"bad boy" is for the younger ones.

 

You can't become a bad boy. You can try, but it will reek of effort and come off as an obvious lame attempt.

 

Also being a bad boy isn't about being an azzhole. Sure, some of them can be like that, but from what I've seen, bad boys are actually quite friendly, charismatic, funny, they just don't have much really going for them (besides drug deals, strippers, drinking, partying) - they're fun!

 

But most smart women with something real to offer don't settle down with the "bad boys", we have our fun with them, but we end up with the NICE guys, the smart, funny, accomplished, sweet men - not the "bad boys".

 

I agree. I think 43 is too old to just become a "bad boy". I think most true "bad boys" don't want to be known as a bad boy, they just are. What makes them sort of bad is that they are unobtainable (too many choices) but they do not seek to hurt you, it just happens. So you just want to become a bad boy so you can get "hotter" women?

[betterdeal]

One thing I've noticed in my life is the more I'm into someone, the prettier she looks to me. Seriously, if they're as physically able as you, you'll bond and your sense of beauty will adjust to seeing her as the most beautiful woman in the word. This makes sense: we love beauty and beautify that which we love. It's how we find our partner in a room full of faces; what we dream of, what we want, who we own and who we belong to.

 

Think about your first car. Was it an old banger? A cheap hand-me-down from mum or dad? Did you notice how you noticed there were loads of that model once you got it? Did you also notice how much you liked the way it looked when you washed it? It may have been a couple of hundred to buy, and a bit rusty, but did you secretly think it looked quite cool, actually, and all those guys with sports cars and prestige cars where just showing off and paying through the nose whilst you were a free-wheeling spirit who was proud of his own piece of automotive engineering? I also thought that because it wasn't fancy it meant it was less likely to get keyed or stolen, and that made me feel good too.

 

It needed work so I did work on it. It was just an old Ford Cortina that cost me £200. They came two a penny back in the day. But this was my Cortina that was shining because I washed it and polished it, and it would start on the coldest of mornings because I put the twin Webber carb in and the manual choke. And you know what? It got me from A to B just like all the rich kids fancy cars did. And in its own way, it was a bloody good looking car: it looked car-shaped. It was frank and honest and simple and it was mine. It was the best bloody car in the world.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Seriously.

 

If all you like about a girl is she's pretty, you're just looking in the showroom window. The beauty of relationships is, they can last a lot longer than any car, they self-repair, and they help repair you, help make you a fuller, more real man by challenging you and supporting you.

 

So go out and get your hands dirty and swear and grunt your way through the howling rain of Sunday afternoon because by Friday you'll be driving that baby down to the beach. Work with what you do have instead of bawling like a baby for what you haven't got. You know, be a man.

[betterdeal]

Very true, grk.

 

I am as guilty of this as anyone, but the truth of the matter is, if you're not good looking, you shouldn't expect a supermodel to fall head over heels in love with you.

 

That just doesn't happen, outside of the movies.

 

That being said, there are plenty of average looking women who get ignored, so being the "nice, passive friend" to a good looking girl, all the while ignoring her plain looking friend...well, that serves to only frustrate you, the good looking girl, and her plain looking friend. Nobody wins, and everybody loses, especially you.

 

Remind me, Kate Moss' boyfriend is which hunk?

[AHardDaysNight]

Remind me, Kate Moss' boyfriend is which hunk?

 

I don't know. And don't care.

 

Look, John Lennon was ugly. Yet he married a hot blond, first of all, and then gave her up for Yoko Ono.

 

Which goes to show, love is blind. I am not a fan of Yoko, and think she's a tool, but there's no denying that John loved her.

 

And what made him sexy to millions of women was his personality, not his looks.

[betterdeal]

Yes, so work with what you've got. That's the secret.

[AHardDaysNight]

And change what you don't like about yourself, while accepting what you cannot change.

 

I took a picture today, and I thought I looked decent. Nice glasses, nice hair, nice eyes, nice smile. I had a bit too much fat in my face, but I'm working on that.

 

Another thing I noticed is that I look tired, which isn't surprising. I bully myself too much, and put myself down. Gotta stop doing that.

 

I actually wasn't criticizing John because I dislike him. He is my idol, I want to be like him. I am a musician who tries my best to copy his sound. That being said, he was not Mr. Beautiful...neither am I, but as I've discovered, nobody cares if I whine about it.

[Taramere]

I don't know. And don't care.

 

Look, John Lennon was ugly. Yet he married a hot blond, first of all, and then gave her up for Yoko Ono.

 

John Lennon ugly? Are you kidding? Here's how he looked when he was together with Cynthia

 

http://www.dabuzzing.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/john-lennon.jpg

 

If that were truly the definition of an ugly man, and the world were filled with ugly men, I would be very happy - and I'm sure a lot of other women would be too. Admittedly after he hooked up with Yoko he turned into this...

 

http://www.artandframingsolutions.com/images/featuredartist/Leibovitz/John%20Lennon%20&%20Yoko%20Ono.jpg

 

Which doesn't seem like much of a "win" for Yoko, but each to their own. I guess he was still very rich and that was probably her main consideration

 

And what made him sexy to millions of women was his personality, not his looks.

 

I think his looks matched his personality. When he was a mischievous, sarcastic young man, he had a mischievous, sarcastic young face.

 

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2001/11/20/Beatles03.jpg

 

When he graduated into an earnest hippy, his face transformed in sympathy.

 

http://www.superiorpics.com/wenn_album/JOhn_Lennon_-_MBE_uncovered/John_Lennon_001_060109.jpg

 

Yoko got the better deal financially, but Cynthia got him while he was hot.

[AHardDaysNight]

Again, apples to oranges.

 

John Lennon was a genius, and a good person. That's where my fandom lines.

[sally4sara]

I see quite a few a guys believing any other guy who has a woman's attention is bad boy or a jerk. There was a thread recently titled something like "becoming angry over getting ignored by women". His examples all included him not bothering to put in any effort when a woman would respond to him and it seemed other men were automatically jerks simply because a woman was interacting with them and not the OP even if they did nothing jerky in the example. One guy was a "douche" just for having an ipad.

 

Two male friends of mine. Neither are GQ models. One makes just enough to get by on and the other was the same until the last two years but still doesn't make a lot of money. One owns a beater car and the other a common car. They do not do the wine and dine. One is 5'9" and the other is 5'11". These two are commonly thought to be players or "bad boys" despite not being bad guys at all simply because they are very successful at getting attention from women and yes getting laid pretty much anytime they want.

The 5'9" one doesn't deceive anyone and he doesn't omit his intent. He has no real intent other than enjoying a woman's company and body and making sure she enjoys herself too. He both does and doesn't want a relationship mostly because he doesn't think of himself as relationship material. He has crap communication skills when it comes to emotion and feelings and prefers to express himself physically. If the woman picks up on this quickly, she views their interactions as a short lived fling and he is cool with that. If a woman doesn't pick up on his communication issues, she might want a relationship and he is cool with that even though he believes she will eventually realize his handicap and move on - they usually do after a year or so but it never ends messy. He has no intent to harm and I have never seen his interactions with women turn awful or become dramatic. If you know him well, you know he has a rather low opinion of his own worth and its a bit of a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

The other seems cocky because he enjoys absurd humor. He will either make you laugh your ass off because you get that he is kidding or make you think he is a jerk because you don't get that he is kidding. He is smart as hell and can strike up a conversation with anyone. His communication skills are very good. In the past, sometimes his honesty would make some of the girls he dated mad because his honest answers were not what they wanted to hear. But because he was honest they never stayed mad long, realizing it just boiled down to incompatibility rather than any mistreatment. That's life; we won't be able to have the relationship we want with everyone we find attractive. He has usually been able to maintain a respectful and sincere friendship in these instances and has a very large circle of long standing platonic friends because of this.

 

Most people will and do write these two off as "bad boys" because if seems less and less people want to take the time to know others before slapping a label on them.

 

What they both have in common:

Neither think of women as too promiscuous or in terms of "good girls" and "bad girls".

They treat women pretty much the same way they would treat their guy friends. They don't try to impress them, just try to get to know them and have fun. Being around women without always aiming to get in their pants and without kissing their ass in hopes to one day get in their pants. It keeps women guessing about your intent and builds sexual tension without landing you in the friendzone. A guy's best bet is to not seem overly interested in a woman's physical form because women are quite use to seeing men react in a very obvious "I want to have sex with you" manner to the way they look. The guys that stand out are the ones that don't act this way because they don't give the typical response. As a woman I am quite use to men pouring it on thick when they are attracted in the hopes of getting laid. And I'm quite aware that the level of interest they display is an unsustainable, unrealistic level of attention. If you pour it on thick right out of the gate there is nowhere to go after that but down hill and that always leads to someone being disappointed.

[KathyM]

I know this type of topic is common here, but I'm hoping I might be able to get some advice that might help me specifically. Glad to hear what anyone has to say on the topic.

 

I have found throughout my 43 years of life that nice guys finish last. Yes, it's true and anyone who tries to say otherwise is in denial. There may be the odd exception, but men know it. Yes, we know it! The biggest, rowdiest, meanest gorilla always gets the female gorilla's. The roughest, toughest bull is the one that gets to shag the herd. The most vain, arrogant male bird attracts the female birds. We see it all throughout the animal kingdom. It's evolution. It's natural selection, it's the way things are whether we like it or not and we humans are no different. No we're not, no matter how many people out there think we were created as something special by God.

 

A nice guy, as a rule, will only attract average women. They rarely get the really desirable woman - the women all men want... and if they do they don't usually get to keep them for long. I have managed to attract incredibly hot women in recent times, due to methods I have put in place to increase my confidence, but they are still far and few between. Before that I never had any luck at all. Even now, although most of them will talk to me they will show no real interest. When I do manage to get one, I am not able to keep her for long.

 

I have a lot going for me. I am over 6 feet tall, well built, healthy, intelligent, a good conversationalist, have a good job, GSOH, I am relaxed, laid back, never strike out in anger, don't have drug and alcohol problems and I know I'm pretty good in bed too because my long-term partners have constantly whinged and whined when not getting it at least every 2-3 days. (aren't I allowed to go to bed just to bloody sleep sometimes? Sheesh!) But sill, none of this seems to be good enough.

 

I know my big problem at the moment is that I am the nice guy. And I get this comment a lot... "you're a nice guy but you're just not for me." I know I need to be more of a jerk. I need to be able to "be mean to keep 'em keen", but it just goes completely against my personality and I feel so bad afterwards if I say or do something towards someone that might be considered rude or mean. Really! And I'm also afraid that if I try to be the bad boy, that not only will I be pretending to be someone I'm not, but it may backfire drastically on me. Sometimes I think I am better off failing as the guy I am, rather than risking failure as someone I'm not.

 

So what can a guy like me do to become more of a bad boy, but yet remain comfortable and true to himself? Is it possible for me to develop some of those skills? I believe it is, because I have managed to develop other skills when it comes to dating and getting the attention of women. One thing I am working on at the moment is my flirting skills, but being a bad boy goes beyond just flirting, doesn't it?

 

Any ideas, any strategies will be much appreciated. (Even links to other threads).

I haven't read the responses to this thread, since it is so long, but I will say that I think what women respond to is excitement in a man rather than treating her badly. I don't believe any normal woman would want to be treated badly. But they do like a man who is exciting, takes risks, lives on the edge, is not predictable, and maybe has a danger factor to him. I think that's why women are turned on by guys who work in a dangerous profession, such as a policeman, a military man, an FBI agent, etc. I think that's why a lot of men who start dating again after a break up and go on these dating websites have pictures of themselves with a motorcycle. They take up the hobby to make themselves look more exciting, and women respond to that. The two boyfriends that my sister was most facinated, or infatuated with, had this element to them. One was a cop. One was very adventurous, and did things like mountain climbing, playing hockey, boating, etc. They were excilting men, and very adventurous. I think that's what women are responding to, not someone that treats them badly.

[betterdeal]

They take up the hobby to make themselves look more exciting, and women respond to that.

 

Isn't that the equivalent of saying a woman wears a mini-skirt to please men? Lots of us actually like motorbikes, bungee jumping and fighting over a piece of leather filled with air.

[KathyM]

Isn't that the equivalent of saying a woman wears a mini-skirt to please men? Lots of us actually like motorbikes, bungee jumping and fighting over a piece of leather filled with air.

Not really the same thing. Some men may take up motorcycling to impress women initially, but they also do it for themselves, because they enjoy it.

[betterdeal]

Not really the same thing. Some men may take up motorcycling to impress women initially, but they also do it for themselves, because they enjoy it.

 

I'm not seeing how the parallel breaks down.

[carhill]

IME, it's more about 'spin' than actuality. How the man approaches things and 'shares' them with women.

 

The question reminded me of a comical role Bill Paxton played in

, that of a used car salesman fancying himself as a secret agent and how that 'spin' ended him up between Jamie Lee Curtis' thighs, briefly anyway

 

I've seen a bit of that myself, changing up my usual technical approach to risky pursuits, such which aren't uncommon for me, and adding a little 'flair'. It does work but feels 'fake' to me. I guess that's a choice, one between feeling and pragmatism.

[Taramere]

Two male friends of mine. Neither are GQ models. One makes just enough to get by on and the other was the same until the last two years but still doesn't make a lot of money. One owns a beater car and the other a common car. They do not do the wine and dine. One is 5'9" and the other is 5'11". These two are commonly thought to be players or "bad boys" despite not being bad guys at all simply because they are very successful at getting attention from women and yes getting laid pretty much anytime they want.

 

The 5'9" one doesn't deceive anyone and he doesn't omit his intent. He has no real intent other than enjoying a woman's company and body and making sure she enjoys herself too. He both does and doesn't want a relationship mostly because he doesn't think of himself as relationship material. He has crap communication skills when it comes to emotion and feelings and prefers to express himself physically. If the woman picks up on this quickly, she views their interactions as a short lived fling and he is cool with that. If a woman doesn't pick up on his communication issues, she might want a relationship and he is cool with that even though he believes she will eventually realize his handicap and move on - they usually do after a year or so but it never ends messy. He has no intent to harm and I have never seen his interactions with women turn awful or become dramatic. If you know him well, you know he has a rather low opinion of his own worth and its a bit of a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

This conforms more to my experience of bad boys - so-called because they are attractive to a lot of women. Men on the internet seem to associate them with alphamale qualities, but I would perceive them as alpha only in terms of ther abilty to attract women. And they don't really put much effort into that. Generally the charmers I've encountered are type B rather than type A. Laid back and easy to be around being the pluses (and these can be very appealing pluses), a bit flakey and unreliable being the minuses. They're not setting out to harm anybody, but they tend not to fulfil other people's hopes and expectations. They're the same guys who probably got lots of "lazy...could do much better...scrapes by on the minimum of work" in their report cards at school.

 

A lot of frustrated men are probably A-types who can't comprehend why these B-types are so popular with women. They see the B-types always scraping by through life and often falling on their feet because they rely on natural talent rather than effort. Meantime they, the A-types, are working hard, following the rules and perhaps not getting the results they hoped for from doing all that. A-type man thinks that if he deliberately treated women more badly or irresponsibly/immaturely as he perceives laid back B-type man doing, he would get more respect from women. That they wouldn't cancel dates with him at the last minute. That they'd appreciate and cherish him more.

 

I think the reality is that Mr Laid-back "Bad boy" gets cancelled on plenty, but just doesn't care or get angry about it in the way that the more aggressive A-type man does. A bit of a flake himself, he's far less likely to be outraged or take it personally when other people flake on him. Maybe other men perceive life - and the business of relating to women - as much easier for him purely because he gets far less stressed out about the issues they get stressed out over.

 

It's not to say he doesn't encounter those issues just as much...or that he won't, at some point, develop a more mature and responsible A-type attitude to life and become frustrated with other more flaky people.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Taramere

[sally4sara]

This conforms more to my experience of bad boys - so-called because they are attractive to a lot of women. Men on the internet seem to associate them with alphamale qualities, but I would perceive them as alpha only in terms of ther abilty to attract women. And they don't really put much effort into that. Generally the charmers I've encountered are type B rather than type A. Laid back and easy to be around being the pluses (and these can be very appealing pluses), a bit flakey and unreliable being the minuses. They're not setting out to harm anybody, but they tend not to fulfil other people's hopes and expectations. They're the same guys who probably got lots of "lazy...could do much better...scrapes by on the minimum of work" in their report cards at school.

 

A lot of frustrated men are probably A-types who can't comprehend why these B-types are so popular with women. They see the B-types always scraping by through life and often falling on their feet because they rely on natural talent rather than effort. Meantime they, the A-types, are working hard, following the rules and perhaps not getting the results they hoped for from doing all that. A-type man thinks that if he deliberately treated women more badly or irresponsibly/immaturely as he perceives laid back B-type man doing, he would get more respect from women. That they wouldn't cancel dates with him at the last minute. That they'd appreciate and cherish him more.

 

I think the reality is that Mr Laid-back "Bad boy" gets cancelled on plenty, but just doesn't care or get angry about it in the way that the more aggressive A-type man does. A bit of a flake himself, he's far less likely to be outraged or take it personally when other people flake on him. Maybe other men perceive life - and the business of relating to women - as much easier for him purely because he gets far less stressed out about the issues they get stressed out over.

 

It's not to say he doesn't encounter those issues just as much...or that he won't, at some point, develop a more mature and responsible A-type attitude to life and become frustrated with other more flaky people.

 

Yes example #1 guy is a bit of a flake himself.

 

But not the case with example #2 guy. I don't get on with flaky people well and would never have married him if he was a flake.

[Feelsgoodman]

Two male friends of mine. Neither are GQ models. One makes just enough to get by on and the other was the same until the last two years but still doesn't make a lot of money. One owns a beater car and the other a common car. They do not do the wine and dine. One is 5'9" and the other is 5'11". These two are commonly thought to be players or "bad boys" despite not being bad guys at all simply because they are very successful at getting attention from women and yes getting laid pretty much anytime they want.

 

The 5'9" one doesn't deceive anyone and he doesn't omit his intent. He has no real intent other than enjoying a woman's company and body and making sure she enjoys herself too. He both does and doesn't want a relationship mostly because he doesn't think of himself as relationship material. He has crap communication skills when it comes to emotion and feelings and prefers to express himself physically. If the woman picks up on this quickly, she views their interactions as a short lived fling and he is cool with that. If a woman doesn't pick up on his communication issues, she might want a relationship and he is cool with that even though he believes she will eventually realize his handicap and move on - they usually do after a year or so but it never ends messy. He has no intent to harm and I have never seen his interactions with women turn awful or become dramatic. If you know him well, you know he has a rather low opinion of his own worth and its a bit of a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

The other seems cocky because he enjoys absurd humor. He will either make you laugh your ass off because you get that he is kidding or make you think he is a jerk because you don't get that he is kidding. He is smart as hell and can strike up a conversation with anyone. His communication skills are very good. In the past, sometimes his honesty would make some of the girls he dated mad because his honest answers were not what they wanted to hear. But because he was honest they never stayed mad long, realizing it just boiled down to incompatibility rather than any mistreatment. That's life; we won't be able to have the relationship we want with everyone we find attractive. He has usually been able to maintain a respectful and sincere friendship in these instances and has a very large circle of long standing platonic friends because of this.

 

Most people will and do write these two off as "bad boys" because if seems less and less people want to take the time to know others before slapping a label on them.

This post needs more context. What kind of women are these men attracting? It's pretty easy to be a ladies men if you are content with bedding average, nothing special (appearance-wise) chicks. All you need is to be decent looking and sociable.

 

Attracting women that are universally considered hot is a totally different matter, however. And this is what men usually speak of when they say that women like bad boys. They are talking about the fact that desirable women prefer bad boys (to be clear, less desirable women also prefer bad boys, but they typically don't even bother chasing them because they know their chances are slim).

[serial muse]

This post needs more context. What kind of women are these men attracting? It's pretty easy to be a ladies men if you are content with bedding average, nothing special (appearance-wise) chicks. All you need is to be decent looking and sociable.

 

Attracting women that are universally considered hot is a totally different matter, however. And this is what men usually speak of when they say that women like bad boys. They are talking about the fact that desirable women prefer bad boys (to be clear, less desirable women also prefer bad boys, but they typically don't even bother chasing them because they know their chances are slim).

 

Actually, this is not the case on LS - at least to hear the guys who complain that they can't even date average girls because they only want bad boys tell it.