Vanhandle Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Did the confrontation, had the long discussions and now I'm allowing reconciliation. But why do I keep getting this nagging thought of self-doubt? It's not constant but it's there. I know I have to reconcile with stuff within myself but this is uncharted waters for me. Like someone said here, something inside you is not the same anymore. Ain't that the truth. I'm taking this dayby day and being very vigilant. I noticed that my senses have become really sharpened and she notices it. She even commented that "wow, you notice everything"...she's right...now, I notice EVERYTHING! Link to post Share on other sites
Maladjusted Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Whoever said that you aren't the same anymore afterwards is right. You will be more vigilant, but you may or may not find that lessens with time...I however think it will always be there. 3 years afterwards for me, it is still there. Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 It is still very much early days. Also in some ways being the same may not be the best thing for both of you if you want to reconcile. You, she and your relationship with each other need to change so that you don't fall back into the state that led to infidelity in the first place. It will be hard and maybe impossible but it can be done and your marriage can in fact be better in the end than it has been for a long time (speaking from experience here). Don't beat yourself up for having bad days, especially in the early months. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Vanhandle Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Maladjusted, I agree. Knowing myself I think it will stick with me for quite some time. That's what sad about these things...instead of being at ease the BS has to constantly be on his/her toes. But I can't whine too much coz I did decide to reconcile after all. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Hey Van, Okay, lets try again! No one is gonna bash you about wanting to reconcile your marriage. Hell, most of us ARE pro-marriage. However, if your gut is telling you something isn't right about this situation, then trust your gut. I'm sorry to say, I don't believe your getting the full story about what happened. Did you present the PI findings to her? Does she even know about them? I mean, the PI stated that he spent three of those night in her hotel room. Did she have an explaination for that? I know you asked for snapshots, and you described one of them for us. Was she actually dancing with this guy when you viewed the DVD? And what about the items that she took with her? What explaination did she have for that? If she did cheat on you, and you can forgive her because she is being truely remorseful for what she did, then great you have a foundation to build on. But, if she isn't being truthful, then your never going to be able to reconcile on a foundation that's built on lies. Edited August 31, 2011 by Chi townD Link to post Share on other sites
Author Vanhandle Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Anne, I agree that it might be beneficial not to revert to the old way. What I am referring to is the part inside you that was so trusting and innocent (naive I know) and never imagined such waywardness. It was a massive wake up call that's for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 You have taking an emotional battering and everything you believed in has changed. But that does not mean you can't get through this. I must admit I have not read your past threads in detail - are you in MC or not ? Link to post Share on other sites
sadcalifornian Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 So, you decided to accept her claiming nothing happened at Cuba? Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 what, EXACTLY, is SHE doing to repair the damage she caused? at this point - it's up to HER to find out why she looked for something outside the M - what that was - and to correspond with you about what she now needs... within the M. it's also hers to provide you with peace of mind and honesty... so that the M has a chance to heal and grow in a healthy way. anything she keeps secret is not good! anything she's unwilling to share with you isn't helping to obtain the peace of mind she should be repairing. YOU can't do that FOR her - she should be finding it out herself and offering the info to you - so that you can decide if you choose to continue - or not - based on her honesty and effort to change things. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Vanhandle Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Chi, Ill try to respond as briefly as I can coz I did respond in greater detail in the closed thread. Basically, I did present the evidence and she did not try to minimize, justify or deny anything caught on video. What she denies with absolutely and vigorously is that she never had sex and the guy never stayed in her room. I reviewed the video myself and nowhere do I see them kissing, being overly intimate or being "into" each other. From I saw it was him trying everything to get something going and her being standoffish. I know her and what I saw was not it. Now, do I believe her? Deep down something tells me she didn't do but the self-doubt is nagging. I know, I know, I have to bury this thought if I want to reconcile or I let it out and divorce. I decided to reconcile and see if it works. Going forward, If she gives me any reason to doubt her sincerity then it's split-ville. We shall see. Link to post Share on other sites
Maladjusted Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 If she did cheat on you, and you can forgive her because she is being truely remorseful for what she did, then great you have a foundation to build on. But, if she isn't being truthful, then your never going to be able to reconcile on a foundation that's built on lies. Chytown is right. I've followed your previous threads. I have been when were you are now. At first, you are just so happy to be working everything out that you ignore the facts, the lies, the half-truths, that just don't add up. I still have them regarding my situation today. If you don't address all of your doubts and the inconsistencies in her story, they may continue to haunt you much the same as they do me...and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 so - your gut says she MAY be minimizing and giving you half truths? if so, how can you forgive what you do not know? it's not possible!!! IF you wonder - there's a reason - she hasn't done HER part in it by providing you with her truth! Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Okay well...I can see where you would have some self-doubt. I mean, she tells you that the guy didn't stay in her room. And you want to believe her because you've seen that she she remorseful and about to lose everything. But the PI stated that he saw that he stayed in her room for three nights...he's a stranger. What does he gain by lying to you. I think you two need to get to marriage counseling. But, while your there, I think that you need to turn to her and say, " Look, you know I haven't missed a thing since you've gotten home. Now, I'm going to ask you a question, but I want you to understand that I'm not going to leave you and I'm not going to divorce you, but I need honesty. Did something happen in Cuba?" Link to post Share on other sites
sadcalifornian Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 You let yourself walked all over again, once she comes back to you. Is this how you want to live the rest of your life? She got on that plane with one intention only. To meet the OM and spend time together! She forced her trip despite your threat of divorce, even. I do not believe nothing happened there at all. No matter what your intuition says. You are just as much in fog as she is, as you are too glad that she has come back to you. This is not healthy, not alone unfair to you. You do have to dig further before hurrying to forgive and move on. You keep mentioning the still pictures, and those snap shots can be very misleading. You just want to see what you want to see. She may appear standoffish in those pictures, but are you sure she has been like that throughout the whole time of staying there with him? If you rugsweep this this easily, this will come back and bite you in the ass down the line. She must be made to own up to her act. If you truly want to reconcile, you should not be doing what you are doing now. Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Friedman Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Okay well...I can see where you would have some self-doubt. I mean, she tells you that the guy didn't stay in her room. And you want to believe her because you've seen that she she remorseful and about to lose everything. But the PI stated that he saw that he stayed in her room for three nights...he's a stranger. What does he gain by lying to you. I think you two need to get to marriage counseling. But, while your there, I think that you need to turn to her and say, " Look, you know I haven't missed a thing since you've gotten home. Now, I'm going to ask you a question, but I want you to understand that I'm not going to leave you and I'm not going to divorce you, but I need honesty. Did something happen in Cuba?" Exactly. Why would you believe someone with a history of lying over someone with no incentive to lie? I know it's hard, but think about it objectively like it was happening to someone else? i know I'd place my money on something physical having happened. In any case, if you want to know the truth just ask for a POLYGRAPH. Her reaction will tell you everything. She can't pull out that trust line after what she's pulled.. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Richard had a good point too. Propose the polygraph. Tell her that "yeah, it will cost a little, but it's a small price to pay for peace of mind. Then you can start to build some trust again." Link to post Share on other sites
Steen719 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Exactly. Why would you believe someone with a history of lying over someone with no incentive to lie? I know it's hard, but think about it objectively like it was happening to someone else? i know I'd place my money on something physical having happened. In any case, if you want to know the truth just ask for a POLYGRAPH. Her reaction will tell you everything. She can't pull out that trust line after what she's pulled.. I think this is one of the best ideas to propose to others and I have done this very thing to myself. What would I think if someone else was telling me my story as their own? If I am honest with myself, I know what I would think. I think Richard has nailed this...really think about if a friend told you this...you might look at them with incredulity and then try to go over the facts you have again. Good luck; it just is so hard, I know. Too freaking many of us have been there...UGH Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Exactly. Why would you believe someone with a history of lying over someone with no incentive to lie? I know it's hard, but think about it objectively like it was happening to someone else? i know I'd place my money on something physical having happened. In any case, if you want to know the truth just ask for a POLYGRAPH. Her reaction will tell you everything. She can't pull out that trust line after what she's pulled.. Van: People like Richard are giving you great feedback on this thread but it doesn't seem as though you are ready to face reality. What will it take for you to be ready? Since you probably are not going to get actual photo's of her having sex with OM or other "physical" evidence, you have to go with the circumstantial evidence here and that is overwhelming. Go back and read the threads of men who caught their wife cheating using purely circumstantial evidence such as phone or text records. In nearly every instance the wife claims she didn't have sex with OM and it was "only" an emotional affair. Sometimes the wife will come clean and confess when overwhelming evidence (like sex-ting) is presented, but for the most part the cheater will reveal NOTHING and insist that you found everything and it's time to put this behind us and move on. I think women instinctively know that a man's ego can survive the bruise of her flirting with another guy but that it shatters him if he finds out she screwed him. They lie, lie, and lie some more. Tell me, do you really think that you and your PI found everything there is to know about this? Do you really think she stayed in a motel in Cuba with the OM and did not have sex with him? You have doubts because the evidence that your wife is lying to you is simply overwhelming and this fact is beginning to get through your confused, betrayed head. For some of us, being ready to face reality means that we are ready to commit to a plan of action. For me that meant I was ready to leave and file for divorce. My wife sensed that there would be no more dancing around the facts and finally came clean with me and, most importantly, to herself. Do you think you are ready to face the reality of this situation? Link to post Share on other sites
rowell2024 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Ain't that the truth. I'm taking this dayby day and being very vigilant. I noticed that my senses have become really sharpened and she notices it. She even commented that "wow, you notice everything"...she's right...now, I notice EVERYTHING! Hypervigilance is normal after DDay, it starts to fade IF the WS is being remorseful and completely transparent. If the WS isn't being transparent and not completely forthcoming about the affair, it will eat at you and eat at you because you know something isn't right and it just doesn't add up. Frankly, I think whether she admits to the PA is no longer relevant because she was deeply engaged in the EA with an OM, then proceeded to Cuba DESPITE your pleas not to go and was seen in the company of the OM. This already shows the level of disrespect she has for you and the marriage. Since you've decided to R already, then may I ask what is she doing to make you feel safe? Is she remorseful? Is she transparent? She needs to do the heavy lifting to repair the damage she has done to you and the marriage. What are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen again? Are you monitoring her as you should be, or taking her word for it that the A is over? Link to post Share on other sites
Seraph1 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 You have doubts because the evidence that your wife is lying to you is simply overwhelming and this fact is beginning to get through your confused, betrayed head. For some of us, being ready to face reality means that we are ready to commit to a plan of action. I have read your story and it appears that your wife is repeatedly disrespecting you and attempting to sweep things under the rug. She went on a holiday with the OM while you were threatening divorce. Women DON'T do this when they genuinely care about their H and want to attempt to save a marriage. The only reason that she would do this and come back is because she fully expected that you would not make good on your threats...and you haven't. Instead you are willing to believe her lies and denial over the PI you hired. I bet that the PI threw her confidence off and that her EA/PA will go underground for a while until she feels more comfortable. However, the real question is why would you even remotely tolerate her repeatedly bad behaviour? It doesn't sound like she is making more of an effort for your marriage...it seems like she is playing it safe for the time being. Please think very carefully about how much trust you can acutally have with this person. You may believe that you know her very well but from your thread...I would hazard that you are acting on how well you HOPE you know her. Take care of yourself first. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Well now...In Van's defense, he's watched the DVD's and we haven't. So, it's hard to say. However, there are gaps and questions that need to be asked. Like Why she felt like she had to tell him to his face (Cuban)? She stated that she felt like owed it to him. I'm sorry but you're a married woman, the only thing you owe to anyone to, is to her husband. So, weak excuse as far as I'm concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
rowell2024 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Vanhandle's story is very similar to HurtinTN's story on TAM. The WW has an emotional affair with an OM, then the WW wants to travel to see her OM despite the betrayed husband's wishes. Only in this story, OM is some latin dance in Cuba instead of a garage mechanic in Colorado. That one isn't ending well either. Link to post Share on other sites
Sh0t Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 she have suspected the PI or just been paranoid in general and didn't want any obvious PDA. behind closed doors, who knows? Link to post Share on other sites
robf1971 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm allowing reconciliation. But why do I keep getting this nagging thought of self-doubt? So what's your wife doing in terms of the reconciliation? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I think Van's on the best track he can be at the moment, given that he's willing to consider reconciliation with her. If reconciliation is something he wants to keep on the table...he can't just boot her out right now and then consider it as a possibilty later. So...for now...he starts down the reconciliation path, but keeps the divorce option open as well. He sees how things go for now...but if she changes her attitude, refuses to do something that he requires...he's still got the divorce option open. Link to post Share on other sites
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