Being in an affair robs you of your self-esteem?

[MissBee]

Hard to understand your comment when it is directly below several posts from thoughtful individuals who explain exactly how the A did, in fact, lower their previously good self-esteem.

 

We've seen both patterns here:

 

1) People who start out with good self-esteem (although sometimes naive or vulnerable in another way) and have it degraded by an A,

 

2) People who start out with impaired self-esteem and get into an A, often because of the low self-esteem

 

Nicely put!

 

I think it boils down to that and I think more As tend to fall in the latter category.

[MissBee]

Very good points. Those who claim that an A is just another form of relationship, similar to and as good as any other , are mistaken.

 

True. This underscores an essential truth about A's - they are built on lies and deception. The lies and deception and being out of touch with reality lead directly to the many serious issues caused by A.

 

Most non-A relationships are NOT built on lies and deception. And therefore they do not necessarily have the automatic problems caused by those factors.

 

(And BTW, if a response is made by the affair booster who claims that her A was not built on lies even though everyone in sight was working hard to deceive the wife, then please accept that your "healthy, honest, respectable" A is far outside the norm and don't bother to reply , "Not my A!" as if that were a valuable data point.)

 

 

Great points though! I concur.

 

I mean some things really go without saying....if an A was the same as a normal relationship then it would not be an A and would just be a relationship, this forum would not exist most likely and there would be little to contend. But since that is not the case, it is pretty evident that there are factors in an A that make it an abnormal relationship type and those abnormalities have to be grappled with, for better or worst. Should the abnormalities be normalized? - I don't think so- should we discuss As without demonizing and try to understand certain dynamics, yes, but I cannot deal with pretending abnormalities don't exist that set As apart from ordinary OR to use one's very anomalous A as the counterpoint to every argument about As.

[donnamaybe]

Running out of things to say doesn't stop you from saying it anyway, eh?

 

No point in trying to have meaningful convo with a spin doctor.

[sleepessinoh]

I don't grasp why it's difficult to understand. There is nothing about a relationship being an affair which dictates it would cause lowered self esteem. There *are* instances where things in a relationship can cause one to lose self esteem, but those instances are not dependent on the relationship being an affair.

 

really?? Someone who has a great life and thinks quite highly of themselves, gets into a car that is going 150 mph towards a wall and while riding in this car. they know the crash is going to hurt like hell and yet still choose to say in the car. There were many stops along the way and they get back into that speeding car. Now these are choices the OW/OM makes during the course of the A. Yet, we stay. We put up with so much more than we would ever from a single person. After the crash, which was me ending my A, I now have to deal with the damage that I caused. No one else did this but me. That is one hell of a blow to my self esteem when I sit here daily lately and ask myself how in the hell I let this happen. What was it about me that said this is ok, I can handle it. I know it will end, I wont fall in love. I am just having sex with this amazing man. I still dated. Well guess what I did fall in love knowing full well that crash was coming. How can you say that wouldnt affect my self esteem. I LET this happen. I CHOOSE it. What the hell is wrong with me.

 

In a single relationship, there is a possibility of an outcome. In a A there is NOT. I was so happy when I met xMM and now I am mad as hell at me, not him, me because of those choices. I now question who I am. I NEVER did that before my A

[woinlove]

really?? Someone who has a great life and thinks quite highly of themselves, gets into a car that is going 150 mph towards a wall and while riding in this car. they know the crash is going to hurt like hell and yet still choose to say in the car. There were many stops along the way and they get back into that speeding car. Now these are choices the OW/OM makes during the course of the A. Yet, we stay. We put up with so much more than we would ever from a single person. After the crash, which was me ending my A, I now have to deal with the damage that I caused. No one else did this but me. That is one hell of a blow to my self esteem when I sit here daily lately and ask myself how in the hell I let this happen. What was it about me that said this is ok, I can handle it. I know it will end, I wont fall in love. I am just having sex with this amazing man. I still dated. Well guess what I did fall in love knowing full well that crash was coming. How can you say that wouldnt affect my self esteem. I LET this happen. I CHOOSE it. What the hell is wrong with me.

 

In a single relationship, there is a possibility of an outcome. In a A there is NOT. I was so happy when I met xMM and now I am mad as hell at me, not him, me because of those choices. I now question who I am. I NEVER did that before my A

 

You and others have written very convincingly of how what is different about getting involved with a MM/MW and how it can affect your self-esteem. I certainly find it moving. But some already have their mind up about how things work for everyone.

[Silly_Girl]

In a single relationship, there is a possibility of an outcome. In a A there is NOT.

 

Firstly, that is simply not a fact relating to ALL affairs.

 

Secondly, part of the attraction for some is the lack of longevity/commitment and those parties would be very glad for their to be no outcome.

[Silly_Girl]

I've observed that the majority of the posters who are arguing that affairs aren't damaging to self esteem are the ones who seem to be actively engaging in them. Kind of shocking isn't it?

 

I'm no rocket scientist...

 

Is that like the posters who talk about how immoral and damaging affairs are are the ones who didn't get their desired outcome?

[xxoo]

I'm no rocket scientist...

 

Is that like the posters who talk about how immoral and damaging affairs are are the ones who didn't get their desired outcome?

 

It is common to read here that an OW/OM will "never" enter a relationship with a MM/MW again. I've even read self-described happy or content OW say that, while still in the affair.

 

These people usually have dated single people before, and have a basis for comparison.

 

Something about the affair experience is clearly more painful for many.

[MissBee]

Firstly, that is simply not a fact relating to ALL affairs.

Secondly, part of the attraction for some is the lack of longevity/commitment and those parties would be very glad for their to be no outcome.

 

I would agree but am also from the school of thought that liking As because they don't produce commitment, is not a particularly well-developed way of being and that in itself is a whole other issue that can be teased out versus it being a casual preference, like liking muscular men or some such.

[sleepessinoh]

I'm no rocket scientist...

 

Is that like the posters who talk about how immoral and damaging affairs are are the ones who didn't get their desired outcome?

 

Wow that is insightful considering that part of the damage is not getting your desired outcome

[fooled once]

Lying is not emotional abuse. It's lying.

It is disrespectful.

 

Disrespectful is not ok, but, respect is earned. An abusive H earns no respect.

 

That's your view. Lying is considered emotional abuse, as is gaslighting, name calling, disrespect, etc.

 

Very good points. Those who claim that an A is just another form of relationship, similar to and as good as any other , are mistaken.

 

True. This underscores an essential truth about A's - they are built on lies and deception. The lies and deception and being out of touch with reality lead directly to the many serious issues caused by A.

 

Most non-A relationships are NOT built on lies and deception. And therefore they do not necessarily have the automatic problems caused by those factors.

 

(And BTW, if a response is made by the affair booster who claims that her A was not built on lies even though everyone in sight was working hard to deceive the wife, then please accept that your "healthy, honest, respectable" A is far outside the norm and don't bother to reply , "Not my A!" as if that were a valuable data point.)

 

Great post sole!!

 

I've observed that the majority of the posters who are arguing that affairs aren't damaging to self esteem are the ones who seem to be actively engaging in them. Kind of shocking isn't it?

 

Me too

 

If it were only that simple

 

It probably could also be said that some people want to believe something like that because they are still in an affair and they don't like it when they read about the damage that can be caused by affairs because it doesn't fit in with their prescribed way of justifying an affair.

 

Ditto !!!

[donnamaybe]

Wow that is insightful considering that part of the damage is not getting your desired outcome

 

And I read many posts by people whose A did NOT work out, and they are absolutely thrilled with the outcome.

[MissBee]

And I read many posts by people whose A did NOT work out, and they are absolutely thrilled with the outcome.

 

Yea that's true...

 

I had a thread asking something similar, about who really gets out of an A, and wishes that they had continued? I don't know too many people like that.

 

For me, when I had my A, I owned it and both during and after it ended, I never thought it was a great idea. It was never a case of me singing the A's praises and then it went sour and now I am against As. In fact, while in the A, I didn't even have a desired outcome, as I knew and admitted that I didn't think we had a future and him choosing me didn't make sense, so I wasn't even in a situation where I wanted or was pressuring him to leave for me. I was never thrown under the bus in terms of a dday and I still speak to him to this day and have no harsh feelings, yet I still disapprove of As. I can't relate to that idea that someone only disapproves of As because theirs "didn't work out". There may be people like that, but most of what I've seen doesn't come off that way.

[donnamaybe]

LOL. How about those fOW turned W that are now BS? There are plenty abound along with the supposed happy OW who protest way too much to have any credibility.

 

Yup. I saw supposedly "happy" OW in this forum whining about their MM not leaving the BS in what they thought was a closed forum elsewhere.

[SoMovinOn]

really?? Someone who has a great life and thinks quite highly of themselves, gets into a car that is going 150 mph towards a wall and while riding in this car.

 

Assuming every car going 150 mph is going to hit a wall is the error. Some cars going 150 will hit a wall. Some cars going 20 will hit a wall. Some people, not in a car will trip on a crack in the sidewalk, hit their head and die. Some people going 150 in a car, hit a wall, and walk away from it.

 

It's really that simple. You cannot project the outcome of ALL situations in a single sweep.

 

 

In a single relationship, there is a possibility of an outcome. In a A there is NOT. I was so happy when I met xMM and now I am mad as hell at me, not him, me because of those choices. I now question who I am. I NEVER did that before my A

 

I presume you mean a positive outcome, as every relationship has an outcome.

 

I know single women who were happy when they met single men. I know single women who were happy when they met single men and ended up mad as hell at themselves because of the choices they made in that relationship. They ended up questioning themselves.

 

This isn't rocket science - there are good and bad endings to any relationship. There is the option to make good and bad choices in any relationship. There is the possibility that any relationship will have a positive impact, a negative impact, or no impact at all on self esteem. It is NOT that a relationship is an A that causes a negative impact on self esteem.

[SoMovinOn]

But some already have their mind up about how things work for everyone.

 

True. Some people think every person is the same, every A is the same.

[SoMovinOn]

I've observed that the majority of the posters who are arguing that affairs aren't damaging to self esteem are the ones who seem to be actively engaging in them. Kind of shocking isn't it?

 

Shocking that people with actual experience would know more than people with no experience? No... not so shocking.

[SoMovinOn]

If it were only that simple

 

It probably could also be said that some people want to believe something like that because they are still in an affair and they don't like it when they read about the damage that can be caused by affairs because it doesn't fit in with their prescribed way of justifying an affair.

 

Then there are those of us who are just into facts and reality, not matter what they support. I know exactly what I am doing. I know what the potential consequences are. I know what my self esteem was like before this, and what it is like now. It seems more than a bit ridiculous to have people who know absolutely nothing about me tell me my self esteem has taken a hit, and I just don't know it.

[SoleMate]

Assuming every car going 150 mph is going to hit a wall is the error. Some cars going 150 will hit a wall. Some cars going 20 will hit a wall. Some people, not in a car will trip on a crack in the sidewalk, hit their head and die. Some people going 150 in a car, hit a wall, and walk away from it.

True.

 

But...if this is your effort to show that A's and non-A relationships are effectively equivalent, in just the same way 20 mph crashes and 150 mph crashes are effectively equivalent (in risk and typical outcome and the type of mindset you have to get into to stomp the gas at 150), you're just dead wrong.

 

http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm

 

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/pub/hs809012.html

[NoIDidn't]

This isn't rocket science - there are good and bad endings to any relationship. There is the option to make good and bad choices in any relationship. There is the possibility that any relationship will have a positive impact, a negative impact, or no impact at all on self esteem. It is NOT that a relationship is an A that causes a negative impact on self esteem.

 

While I agree with this, it appears that many are intentionally choosing to ignore the fact that an A is more likely to produce a negative outcome - and hence the damage being spoken of here.

 

Most people posting in this forum that are former OPs speak of the negative outcomes and there are far more negative outcomes than positive ones.

 

I think getting into an affair is being cocky and arrogant to think that one can play with another's life without consequence. So I think most people getting into affairs just don't know that they already had low self-esteem that they were using the positive mirroring in the affair to mask. They just meet it when they get the negative outcome in the end - even if the end comes after marrying the cheater and finding out that they weren't marrying who they thought they were marrying.

[Silly_Girl]

And I read many posts by people whose A did NOT work out, and they are absolutely thrilled with the outcome.

 

Eventually, perhaps. And even then I'm a little sceptical to be honest.

[SoMovinOn]

True.

 

But...if this is your effort to show that A's and non-A relationships are effectively equivalent, in just the same way 20 mph crashes and 150 mph crashes are effectively equivalent....

 

Nope. I was working with the analogy given. I have no desire to sidetrack into arguing the factual details of the analogy.

 

My point remains the same - relationships, whether they are an A or not, have potential negative outcomes and potential positive outcomes. That an R is an A has no impact on that.

[SoMovinOn]

While I agree with this, it appears that many are intentionally choosing to ignore the fact that an A is more likely to produce a negative outcome - and hence the damage being spoken of here.

 

Most people posting in this forum that are former OPs speak of the negative outcomes and there are far more negative outcomes than positive ones.

 

Most people on this forum come here because they have an issue the would like to discuss, or they are having a problem of some sort. It provides a skewed picture of A's and the people involved, as it does not include those who are doing well or not having problems.

 

 

I think getting into an affair is being cocky and arrogant...

 

So I think most people getting into affairs just don't know that they already had low self-esteem that they were using the positive mirroring in the affair to mask...

 

You think someone can be cocky and arrogant and have low self esteem at the same time? It would seem to me, the first two are indications of high self esteem.

[NoIDidn't]

Most people on this forum come here because they have an issue the would like to discuss, or they are having a problem of some sort. It provides a skewed picture of A's and the people involved, as it does not include those who are doing well or not having problems.

 

I don't agree that it creates a skewed picture of affairs. Even the people I know in affairs that don't post have the same sad/sob stories to report. Some people just refuse to put their person business on the internet.

 

 

You think someone can be cocky and arrogant and have low self esteem at the same time? It would seem to me, the first two are indications of high self esteem.

 

Yes, in fact, being a narcissist is widely believed to be a position of low self-esteem. And being cocky and arrogant are often just defense mechanisms used to hide insecurities and low self-esteem.

 

There is a reason that many people avoid the cocky and arrogant besides finding them annoying. Most of the time they are emotional vampires that suck the life and vitality out of others. And they are often the main people found in affairs, sucking the life out of the unsuspecting.

[NoIDidn't]

Most people on this forum come here because they have an issue the would like to discuss, or they are having a problem of some sort. It provides a skewed picture of A's and the people involved, as it does not include those who are doing well or not having problems.

 

 

Also, I stated my post wasn't about "most people" on this forum. It was about most people "that are former OPs". Most former OPs have had a negative outcome with an affair.