Being in an affair robs you of your self-esteem?

[MissBee]

In my younger, single, days, I was involved with two married women (at different times). Both were very enjoyable experiences for me. Both ended well (more a matter of circumstance and logistics than anything else). Neither had any negative consequences, and, if I were single and the opportunity came up now, I'd love to spend time with either of them.

 

... but then, I suppose, providing myself as an example will just be more fodder for some people here to wag their righteous fingers and point out how truly evil I am!

 

So to this day you wish those 2 As had not ended?

 

You lived in regret over that?

 

What you're saying is rather different. You're saying you'd do it again, not that to this day you're upset that it ended - which is what I'm talking about. The idea that those of us whose As have long ended are in fact secretly wishing they didn't end and every response about As, is in light of our secret bitterness at the love lost or some such.

[MissBee]

LMAO!

You conveniently forgot about the meteoric rise of herpes and syphillis during that time.

 

And the advent of AIDS in the decade following....

[White Flower]

Finding out that I had been so badly lied to and was only 'good enough' to play second fiddle really messed with my head and self-esteem. It was also a lot of confusion. What was the truth and where did the lies begin and end. For the longest time (and sometimes still) I wonder what made him single me out for such a ride? I'm not particularly clingy and I am educated but somehow...I was only ever an AFFAIR in his mind - not an enduring and lasting relationship. I was viewed by him as a bit of fun and someone to keep him company while his wife (the woman he had ACTUALLY committed to) lived overseas.

 

This hurt my self esteem on so many levels and it made me question my boundaries and my intelligence. Not to mention the blame I felt for being so trusting.

Ok, didn't you know he was M when you met him? How does 'finding out you were only good enough to play second fiddle' have anything to do with self-esteem unless you actually believe in catch phrases like that? Change your belief in these kinds of one-liners and watch your self-esteem soar!

[White Flower]

I can't see someone who doesn't already have low self esteem, suddenly developing it simply because they are involved in an A. A relationship is a relationship. When it comes to what happens in a relationship, there is nothing significantly different just because it's an A.

 

I can provide myself as an example. I am currently an OM. I assure you, there isn't a person in the world who would describe me as having low self esteem. Mentioning the possibility to anyone who knows me would certainly be met with hysterical laughter!

 

The fallacy of A's causing low self esteem is based on the fallacy that the OW/OM is somehow "second". It's not a competition, so, there really is no first and second place, but... for those who *have* to look at it that way, it's the BS who would most likely be being treated as second best. The OW/OM almost always gets the best of the AP.

Knowing you as I do I must agree that your confidence is off the charts!!!

 

Regarding the OP getting the best of the MP I must agree, though I'm sure it depends on the individual and their needs and wants. I am self-sufficient, so getting MM's paycheck or pension is not getting the best of him, at least for me. Getting his attention, his affection, his arousal, his sincere interest in all manner of things is, to me, getting the very best of him. I know BW wasn't feeling like she was getting the very best of her H when she agreed to the last separation; she sighted all of those things I was getting as the reasons why she wanted him gone.

[fooled once]

...and when they come on an internet forum talking about all the time they spend with their lovely man while in reality he is still living with the BS?

 

this made me choke on my tea

 

Great post! Those they post in defense of affairs are oftentimes the same one's who are still in an affair.

 

As for the rest of us that have been in past affairs they assume that we are bitter and mean because it didn't have the desired outcome (we didn't get the mm/mw) while refusing to realize that it's because we've grown and realized that an affair is not a suitable or healthy relationship. Hindsight is a really good thing. With that said, there are posters who have graduated from an affair to a relationship with the former ap who also have the same viewpoint in that an affair was not a healthy relationship and some are brave enough to share their real life struggles and the special challenges they face because of the affair dynamic in the past. To those who are real and frank and honest, my hat is off to them too.

 

Ditto

 

Those that post that affairs are all evil and bad or often times the same ones who are bitter over the outcome of their A, or are BS's who ended up on the short end.

 

**Quite an over generalization and actually quite rude. A person doesn't have to be a bitter person or a BS to believe it is wrong to hurt others. Why oh why do those who are currently in an affair have such a hard time realizing that those of us NOT in an affair are not bitter nor are we "BS's who ended up on the short end". That is quite a slap in the face to many people. Maybe instead of making judgments about those that believe affairs aren't healthy you instead extend an open mind to hearing them and giving them the courtesy of their opinion without calling names?

 

There are posters who have grown and realized...

There are posters who have graduated... and have the same viewpoint...

 

Yes.

 

... and there are people who are in A's or who have been who had no problem with it.

 

... and there are people who are in A's who did it, ended it, and moved on to something else without a negative view of the A.

 

... and there are people who were in an A and the outcome, whatever it was, was exactly what they wanted it to be.

 

... and there are people who were in A's who ended up married to their AP and lived happily ever after (or as happily as any married couple can be)

 

... and there are people who were in A's and ended it by committing suicide, thus, never posting here about how awful the experience was.

 

So... to get a truer picture, we'd want to look at a broad sample off all people involved in A's, rather than a the limited subset we see on LS.

 

And there are those that were in an an Affair and when it ended, the grieved it and then moved on with their lives. Why wasn't that one of your thoughts? Did you know it is okay for a person to have been in an affair and when it ended to have a negative thought about it but still go on to have happy, healthy relationships? Do you know that people can move forward while remembering the hurt and pain of the past and knowing they would never again be involved in an affair.

[White Flower]

Let me check the timeline here... Lunch with the OW/OM, then they go home to the spouse who might wake up from their coma and decide they want a little action...

 

I guess you and I have a very different perspective of "seconds".

MM and I always made love in the morning or afternoon during the A. I know it wasn't I who had the seconds, if seconds were even had.

[White Flower]

In the biker community, there is a big thing about respect. One has little regard for how they treat or the impact they have upon those they don't respect.

 

 

 

 

Why can't you? Everyone I know knows who I am dating, and that she is M.

 

 

Why would I spend it alone rather than spending it with my family?

 

 

 

If you're involved in a A, you know what you're dealing with. How does anyone who is married or involved in any romantic relationship know their spouse or love isn't sleeping with someone else? Based on the number of A's going on, there's a good chance you're sharing too.

 

 

 

 

By not buying into such childish thinking?

By getting there first?

 

 

 

 

Dirty, eh? I showered. Secret... yeah, you got me on that one.

I'm good with it. My A was a choice. No one forced me into it. If I thought it would hurt my self esteem, or my cocky and arrogant attitude, I wouldn't have even started.

This 'dirty little secret' think must still work in some communities or the OP of your quoted post just wishes it would. EVERYONE in my life knows my guy is M. It hadn't been a problem ever, not even once. That is how much people care about the institution of M these days.

[jthorne]

This 'dirty little secret' think must still work in some communities or the OP of your quoted post just wishes it would. EVERYONE in my life knows my guy is M. It hadn't been a problem ever, not even once. That is how much people care about the institution of M these days.

Most of the people I hang with care very much about the institution of marriage, so it could simply be the company you keep. Since your own friends don't care or respect M, you won't expect them to tell you if he ever cheats on you then right?

[MissBee]

MM and I always made love in the morning or afternoon during the A. I know it wasn't I who had the seconds, if seconds were even had.

 

Was he sleeping with his wife? If so...I am not sure it matters if you got seconds, thirds or first...as it would be cyclical nonetheless, as if he had sex with you this afternoon, then her tomorrow and you again...it would all be one and the same.

[MissBee]

Most of the people I hang with care very much about the institution of marriage, so it could simply be the company you keep. Since your own friends don't care or respect M, you won't expect them to tell you if he ever cheats on you then right?

 

I'm curious about this as well...

 

Since I could care less about "the institution", but am of the mind that whether married or not, if one is in a relationship perceived to be committed, that one should apply honesty therein...

 

My friends think the same as well and some do not want to get married! But I suppose we are passé for expecting common decency and truthfulness of those with whom we have interpersonal relations....

[jthorne]

I'm curious about this as well...

 

Since I could care less about "the institution", but am of the mind that whether married or not, if one is in a relationship perceived to be committed, that one should apply honesty therein...

 

My friends think the same as well and some do not want to get married! But I suppose we are passé for expecting common decency and truthfulness of those with whom we have interpersonal relations....

Well, I just think having the aforementioned friends could be a double-edged sword. If they'll keep a secret like that FOR you, they most likely will keep a secret FROM you too. I mean, if they don't care about M or commitment, why would they tell?

 

The saying "if you lie with dogs, you'll wake up with fleas" comes to mind.

[bentnotbroken]

=jthorne;3611447]Most of the people I hang with care very much about the institution of marriage, so it could simply be the company you keep.

 

 

My thoughts as well. We tend to hang around people who are like us and think similarly.

[MissBee]

Well, I just think having the aforementioned friends could be a double-edged sword. If they'll keep a secret like that FOR you, they most likely will keep a secret FROM you too. I mean, if they don't care about M or commitment, why would they tell?

The saying "if you lie with dogs, you'll wake up with fleas" comes to mind.

 

True...

 

But this is assuming that WF cares whether or not her partner sneaks around behind her back...if she doesn't care (although if she doesn't then he would be wasting time sneaking around, when he could just flaunt it) then friends telling or not telling wouldn't matter. However, if she does care, then it could be problematic.

 

Or perhaps they value every other type of relationship so long as it isn't the dreaded 4 horned beast called marriage...so they'd hurriedly tell if her A partner was out with another OW or if her bf was with another...just not her husband! Maybe they think had she not married and succumbed to "the institution" they would have had a great relationship so it's probably her fault and serve her right, so they won't say a word.

[SoMovinOn]

LMAO!

You conveniently forgot about the meteoric rise of herpes and syphillis during that time.

 

Damn... you're right! All I had to do is look around at all the people in their 60's & 70's who are now looking back on that era going "Damn, that sucked. What an awful time! I'm glad it's over. I'd never want to go back and do that again!"

[SoMovinOn]

It's all denial!!! If you're not lying to others you're lying to yourself. Or both.

 

You'll learn. :lmao:

 

So... if I just say that I am lying... that would have to be a lie ... so ...

 

I'm thinking it would cause some weird warp in the time space continuum, creating a massive black hole which would suck everything into itself, then suck itself into itself and the whole thing would just end up as a poppy seed on some cosmic hot dog bun!

[SoMovinOn]

So to this day you wish those 2 As had not ended?

 

Not at all. They ended when it made sense they end. Neither was ever intended to be permanent.

 

You lived in regret over that?

 

Not a moment of regret over either.

 

 

What you're saying is rather different. You're saying you'd do it again, not that to this day you're upset that it ended - which is what I'm talking about. The idea that those of us whose As have long ended are in fact secretly wishing they didn't end and every response about As, is in light of our secret bitterness at the love lost or some such.

 

My brain hurts. I had to read that a few times ... slowly.

 

I thought I was providing an example in response to your comments;

Like I have said....I have yet to come across a soul who after ending their A, years later wishes they had stayed put. If such a one exists and is currently lurking, please come forward and share to provide some contrast for my line of thinking. Do such folks exist?

 

Just saying, had circumstances been different, I would have been more than happy to continue an A with either of these women.

[SoMovinOn]

Cocky and arrogant are typically displayed as behaviors. A person can consistently act cocky and arrogant and yet have a very low opinion of themselves. People might say that person is "cocky and arrogant" when they are simply referring to how that person presents themselves to others.

 

That's the only time someone would say someone else is cocky and arrogant. It is only about how one presents themselves. If one were secretly cocky and arrogant, they'd never earn the label. A person is either cocky and arrogant, or they are not. If they are, they cannot be either while holding a low opinion of themselves.

[SoMovinOn]

**Quite an over generalization and actually quite rude. A person doesn't have to be a bitter person or a BS to believe it is wrong to hurt others. Why oh why do those who are currently in an affair have such a hard time realizing that those of us NOT in an affair are not bitter nor are we "BS's who ended up on the short end". That is quite a slap in the face to many people. Maybe instead of making judgments about those that believe affairs aren't healthy you instead extend an open mind to hearing them and giving them the courtesy of their opinion without calling names?

 

Congratulations on recognizing a generalized statement, but, unfortunately, I have to deduct points for stretching the generalization to an extreme by ignoring the "often times" clause, which made allowances for those who would not fit the generalized statement.

 

 

"Those that post that affairs are all evil and bad are often times the same ones who are bitter over the outcome of their A, or are BS's who ended up on the short end."

 

You do make a good point - it is probably wrong for anyone here to believe they can make any statement which applies to everyone in a given situation. I will take your point to heart and be wary of demonizing people involved in affairs.

[SoMovinOn]

And there are those that were in an an Affair and when it ended, the grieved it and then moved on with their lives. Why wasn't that one of your thoughts? Did you know it is okay for a person to have been in an affair and when it ended to have a negative thought about it but still go on to have happy, healthy relationships? Do you know that people can move forward while remembering the hurt and pain of the past and knowing they would never again be involved in an affair.

 

Excellent addition to the partial list I created of the many different types of affair situations. I am sure if we were to look outside LS, we would find even more.

 

I completely agree with you that there are just too many possibilities for any of us here to think we have a complete understanding based on our observations of the small subset provided here.

[SoMovinOn]

Most of the people I hang with care very much about the institution of marriage, so it could simply be the company you keep.

 

With a 50% divorce rate, you must make a lifelong commitment to marriage a condition of friendship, otherwise, you be more like the general population and know many people in your circle who had divorced, at least once, if not multiple times.

[SoMovinOn]

Was he sleeping with his wife? If so...I am not sure it matters if you got seconds, thirds or first...as it would be cyclical nonetheless, as if he had sex with you this afternoon, then her tomorrow and you again...it would all be one and the same.

 

I think a lot of people in that situation use the Two Day rule - always two days in between sex with the other person. I don't know where that comes from or how it matters all that much (why isn't 24 hours, or 12 hours sufficient? Or why not 3 days?) ... but it seems pretty common as I have heard it elsewhere.

[SoMovinOn]

My thoughts as well. We tend to hang around people who are like us and think similarly.

 

But... if A's are secret, how would you know? It's possible every single person you hang out with is involved in an A, and they just haven't felt the need to share that secret with you. Right?

[Silly_Girl]

But... if A's are secret, how would you know? It's possible every single person you hang out with is involved in an A, and they just haven't felt the need to share that secret with you. Right?

 

What someone says across the dinner table and what someone does in their free time are often very different! I like that saying "It's always the ones you least suspect..."

[Silly_Girl]

I'm very sorry, but some of us are not able to be here day and night, nor are they able to read every one of every one else's posts. Most of us simply don't have that much time.

 

Oh no problem. But it's what you've done before, hence my assumption. Sorry.

[White Flower]

Most of the people I hang with care very much about the institution of marriage, so it could simply be the company you keep. Since your own friends don't care or respect M, you won't expect them to tell you if he ever cheats on you then right?

 

Chances are, since we live in the same society, you and I keep the exact same company. I just choose to not hide the fact my boyfriend is M. If my friends, many of them M and many of them religious, have a problem with it they're not staying away. My statement was with regard to being hidden. I'm not hidden with my friends and they appreciate that I am up front with them. Since you feel the need to alter the subject and make it about my friends not willing to confide in me should MM ever cheat on me, well you must not understand human nature because my being so forthright and open to my friends surely means they would be that way with me. I choose my friends wisely and dump those who are not like me--who wouldn't treat me they way I treat them. Also, I did not say they don't respect M; I said most people don't respect the institution of M. Please don't put words in my mouth. I ask you this on every thread you follow me on.