Is she waiting to see change?

[BeenHereBefore]

Hi Everyone,

 

Here's my story. I hope you can help, and offer some insight.

 

My GF and I have been together 2.5 years. I am 29, she is 28. We both are educated and have good stable careers (she is a physiotherapist, I am an engineer)

 

A year ago, we moved into our first new home (we co-own the mortgage), and it became clear that my level of communication wasn't enough for her needs. Until this point we hadn't lived together, just the 2 of us, so it wasn't an issue, though she knew I was a quiet guy by nature.

 

The communication problem aside, everything else is rock solid. There has never been a trust issue, nor financial disagreements. We both are on the same page when it comes to lifestyle, parenting philosophy, religion, etc. And, we both genuinely care about and love each other.

 

Well, over the course of the last year, she has said many times that I do not communicate enough, and that she can not be in a relationship without communication. I heard her, but it never clicked with me how much it hurt her - she thought I didn't care. I thought it was more an annoyance for her. I'd try to talk more, but in the end, I was a decent guy with a good job who treated her very well...things would be OK.

 

2 weeks ago she left the house.

 

We had the usual long drawn out talk / cry / argue / cry / talk routine where we both got our feelings out on the table. She said she loved me, and I'm a great guy, and she knew for the next 3-6 months I'd be perfect in the relationship, but she fears things would slip back to the way they were and she's afraid to commit more time.

 

I told her that I loved her, and if I wasn't serious about making changes (to my behaviour, not to the person I am), then I wouldn't dare ask for time to work on it. I asked if she'd see a couples counselor with me. She said a few months ago she would have, but now she just has no energy left.

 

I booked myself into IC to learn about how I had affected the relationship and to work on my communication, and on being more aware of the feelings of others and myself....and even more so to just have someone listen without forming an opinion of me or her (like my family will).

 

She said she would attend one of my IC sessions if it would be helpful to get the feelings from both sides out on the table again for the therapist to work from. But, she made it clear she was going to support me, because she cares for me, not as couples counseling.

 

After the session I thanked her for coming, and she said she was glad she came.

 

We decide to get lunch on our way back. This is where things get funny:

 

Conversation was light and friendly. We talked about what to do with the house. She said she really loved the house and would look at taking it over, since selling it at this point would result in a huge loss. Then she says:

 

"You know, my family keeps telling me that the reason I want to keep the house so badly is because I want to have it if we get back together."

 

A little later on:

 

"It's just my luck, you're working on your communication, and you're going places in your career...you'll be some great catch and it'll be too late for me."

 

What does she want? Why would she say those things? She isn't a cruel-hearted person.

 

After going to the IC with me, she now knows I am seriously working on the issue at hand - communication.

 

We have been on LC since she left. It's hard to go NC when there are financial / house decisions to be made, but I try to keep the text exchanges and phone calls short, and never initiate them.

 

I know with 100% certainty that there isn't another guy in the picture.

 

Sorry for the long post, there's more, but I'll leave it at this for now.

 

Thanks for any insight.

 

Lots of love.

[silly_panda]

Communication does play a critical part in maintaining a relationship... This is my take on the things she said to you...

 

"It's just my luck, you're working on your communication, and you're going places in your career...you'll be some great catch and it'll be too late for me."

 

She had lost feelings on you... She knows you are working in improving your communication skills for the relationship, but she just doesn't really care anymore...

 

It's like... You had your chances when you were in the relationship but you didn't make any effort into fixing the problem... Even though you tried at that moment, but she just doesn't see it... It's a very big difference between making an effort when you are in that relationship and after the relationship had ended... So trying now is already too late cause she felt disappointed with you...

 

Many times, girls/women had checked out emotionally long before the actual break up happens... So she kinda like fall out of love already... She still loves you and care for you... Just not as much already...

 

I'm just saying based on my experience... I really hope that I'm wrong... I would like to see other posters' opinion on this too... In terms of her giving you another shot at things... It's always 50/50... Really hope this helps...

[BeenHereBefore]

Thanks for the reply Panda. I really appreciate it.

 

You hit the nail on the head - she said I already had enough chances, and now that it's too late, I am getting counseling for my communication (or lack thereof).

 

But then she says and does things that seem like she is open to watching for personal growth from me, and considering a time down the road when we could possibly rebuild.

 

I too am interested in what others think.

[silly_panda]

I'm not saying there is totally no chance for you at all... I'm just saying rite now, she is disappointed and would not consider taking you back...

 

Here's a thread that I think could help you a little...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=295243

[Romantic_Lefty]

I think she may have checked out early in her head, for what she felt like she had to do for her...but in her heart now she is torn?

[BeenHereBefore]

Hi Guys,

 

An Update:

 

We have been in contact (LC +NIC on my part) since there are still decisions to be made. It seems as though in her heart she is re-warming, but is remaining headstrong about things.

 

I have been doing lots of reading on Hendrix and Turtle. I have been going to the gym every day and I look and feel much better than I did a month ago. I absolutely have not in any way pushed any sort of relationship talk on her, all of this is voluntary contact...A few things she has said to me recently:

 

"I am really proud of you for taking such a big step to seek therapy"

"I know if we get back together, then we will be so much stronger and closer than before."

"I don't want us to lose contact. I'd like it if we could get together once in a while and check on our feelings."

"I haven't closed the door on us getting back together after we work on ourselves."

"I hope your therapy went well today, maybe we can get together and talk about it?"

 

The other night I said to her "You know, I think this separation has been really good for us to clear our heads." To which she said "Ya, it is good, for a while."

 

She is always asking about my therapy and and wishing me well with it.

 

Am I foolish to believe the obvious here?

 

I am working EXTREMELY hard on myself both physically and mentally (she is noticing), and I would dare to say that I am in a better place than she is now in dealing with things.

 

Any advice? I know that I am going to continue what I am doing, but how do you guys feel about the chances of a reconciliation happening in the future?

[silly_panda]

From her words... It does sound like you stand a good chance... Take it slow and not rush things... Maybe wait for more 'clearer' signs before you make your move...

 

Great to hear bout your progress man... Keep it up...

[BeenHereBefore]

Thanks Panda,

 

I know I am no where near where I want to be, but I am much closer than I was a month ago.

 

The hardest part is balancing the waves of hope and doubt, staying positive, and not letting the uncertainty get to me.

[2sunny]

so- she wanted you to COMMUNICATE with her more - and more EFFECTIVELY!

 

give me evidence and examples of EXACTLY what YOU have changed...

 

IF you're not changing - you are paying money in counseling to have things remain the same.

 

SHE wants your feelings! if you're not willing to share that part of yourself with her - you two are NOT a good match! an engineer THINKS differently than most - and for her to EXPECT that you would become this emotionally available mushpot is unrealistic!

 

you are who you are! that is the beauty of you... IF it doesn't match her style - then so be it - move forward without her.

 

for her to expect you to change the authentic part of YOU - isn't realistic. IF she intends to be with a more open, emotional and talkative man - she should find a better match for herself.

[BeenHereBefore]

so- she wanted you to COMMUNICATE with her more - and more EFFECTIVELY!

 

give me evidence and examples of EXACTLY what YOU have changed...

 

IF you're not changing - you are paying money in counseling to have things remain the same.

 

SHE wants your feelings! if you're not willing to share that part of yourself with her - you two are NOT a good match! an engineer THINKS differently than most - and for her to EXPECT that you would become this emotionally available mushpot is unrealistic!

 

you are who you are! that is the beauty of you... IF it doesn't match her style - then so be it - move forward without her.

 

for her to expect you to change the authentic part of YOU - isn't realistic. IF she intends to be with a more open, emotional and talkative man - she should find a better match for herself.

 

I appreciate your blunt honesty. I really do. I'll do my best to answer.

 

Firstly, she does not want an "emotional mushpot" as you put it. What she wanted (and I have confirmed this with her in some of the therapy follow up talks we've had) was for me to be "present" in conversation, that simply being physically there wasn't enough.

 

As for "what" I have changed - I am now aware of exactly how my behaviours made her feel. Therapy has been extremely beneficial in giving me a new frame of reference and new emotional awareness of how I wasn't doing enough. To that end, I have been learning as much as I can about validation and mirroring techniques, and I have been practicing them with her when I get the chance.

 

And, it's all about practice. Practicing new behaviours. Practicing conversational skills until they become natural.

 

The therapist has stressed MANY times, that this isn't about changing WHO YOU ARE, as it isn't healthy to change who you are for any reason or person. It's about learning and growing.

 

The authentic parts that make me "me" will not be altered. It's all about learning empathy and understanding the needs of others. By nature, I'm not one to ignore the needs of others or to intentionally hurt another...I just have to learn to manifest this in actions.

 

As for her finding a better match, that's the thing - everything matches up very well between us, and that's not me still gazing through unrealistically rosy lenses, it's honest.

 

And to be fair, I have to do this personal work regardless of the outcome with her. I think it will surface as a problem in any future relationship I will have.

[2sunny]

so what was the benefit to YOU - in not being PRESENT in the moment before? how did you learn that behavior - and why was it useful to you through the years...?

 

knowing that THAT behavior didn't grant you a connection (empathy) with other people - what is the goal now... and how do you intend to obtain that new goal?

 

 

as a note - to obtain NEW behaviors that may work for YOU - it's useful to recognize what OLD BEHAVIORS got you (or didn't get you) - and to completely let go of old behaviors = DOING new behaviors will bring a new result.

 

any and all NEW behaviors will bring change! try new ones out - use the ones that work and discard what doesn't invoke change you wish to obtain.

[c0nfuzd]

just continue what you're doing and with time, she will come back

 

stay positive and open to her needs; I think you're on the right track

 

props to you

[BeenHereBefore]

With the therapist I have indentified many factors leading to how and why I am where I am today, and we are working through accepting it, letting go of blame and moving beyond it with the understanding that my partner wasn't the one for whom this behaviour was developed and reinforced over the years.

 

The goal is to work on being more empathetic, and understanding and emotionally "present", without feeling the extreme feelings of vulnerability that are derivative of my childhood experiences.

 

Believe when I say there is real motivation to heal myself and make lasting changes to my behaviour. (beyond merely getting her back)

 

So now...all that aside, how do you feel about the things she said!!!

[flitzanu]

so, you're the sole problem and blame for the relationship according to her?

[BeenHereBefore]

so, you're the sole problem and blame for the relationship according to her?

 

No.

 

She admitted she had her own issues that were a drain on the relationship that she needs to work on.

 

She never saddled me with 100% of the blame, nor have I offered to accept 100% of the blame.

 

She does know, that I am working 100% on the parts where I was to fault.

[2sunny]

doesn't matter what she SAYS - only matters what she DOES. same with YOU.

 

concentrate on getting rid of your "assigned meaning" - the meaning you assigned to all your "old behaviors and thoughts" that you learned as a kid. that assigned meaning is the illusion that will keep you from getting healthy!

 

if you have questions - ask! you need to "unlearn" what you learned that certain things "mean - to you"! then LEARN THE NEW WAY THAT WORKS FOR YOU!

 

this has nothing to DO with your girlfriend... let that thought go for now... concentrate on your new way!

 

keep posting - this could be the most interesting thread i've seen in a LONG time if you put "your truth out here"...

[BeenHereBefore]

doesn't matter what she SAYS - only matters what she DOES. same with YOU.

 

concentrate on getting rid of your "assigned meaning" - the meaning you assigned to all your "old behaviors and thoughts" that you learned as a kid. that assigned meaning is the illusion that will keep you from getting healthy!

 

if you have questions - ask! you need to "unlearn" what you learned that certain things "mean - to you"! then LEARN THE NEW WAY THAT WORKS FOR YOU!

 

this has nothing to DO with your girlfriend... let that thought go for now... concentrate on your new way!

 

keep posting - this could be the most interesting thread i've seen in a LONG time if you put "your truth out here"...

 

You're getting pure unfiltered truth here. I'll continue to post. It will be interesting to see the evolution over time.

 

Gotta run now - have a few things to do before I get to my next appointment.

 

Thanks all for your replies.

[BrianG]

Your thread resonates with me as I'm a quiet reserved guy as well. What have you read/done to become a better communicator in relationships and outside of them. What you've been doing is great and greatly appreciate any info.

[2sunny]

so what "change" is required of your GF in order to make the R work?

 

i'm wondering why she can make the demands to change - and what SHE'S doing to become a healthier addition to this R as well.

 

normally - when you love someone - you don't say "i love you but only IF you change" theory... makes me wonder why her brand of love has to have such requirements?

 

it may be worth changing for YOU - but i caution you - you may not find her as appealing if you accomplish the growth you intend to tackle.

 

either way - i hope you find a way to your own happiness - no matter what the outcome with her.

[EgoJoe]

I think that because she has stated legitimate issues for leaving and is watching whats going on IS a good sign. In addition to these relationship fundamentals, I think you would do well to work on being more attractive as a man too.

 

Simultaneously, you may want to ask her to work on her issues more actively and make it clear to her that if she begins to date others you are going NC.

 

It looks positive but I think that you must protect your boundaries and never let yourself get walked on. I know that even the nicest, sweetest, kindest and most caring women WILL TEST THIS BOUNDARY!

 

Keep up the good work!

[flitzanu]

i only beg the question...who says YOU are broken anyway?

 

your communication and life may be perfectly fine. just because she doesn't like it doesn't mean she's the only jury.

[BeenHereBefore]

so what "change" is required of your GF in order to make the R work?

 

i'm wondering why she can make the demands to change - and what SHE'S doing to become a healthier addition to this R as well.

 

Well, she came over last night to talk. She admitted that she was too dependent on me for her own "entertainment / amusement" for lack of better description. I have hobbies that I enjoy, but she seems to just work and come home.

 

She said she needs to reconnect with old friends from school, and take up some hobbies she enjoys but had fallen by the wayside, so that I wouldn't be relied upon as her sole source of socializing.

 

She said outright that her lack of extra-curricular activity was a part of our lack of communication...she had not a lot of interesting and new things to say, and that led to me completely zoning out with the same day-to-day type conversations.

 

it may be worth changing for YOU - but i caution you - you may not find her as appealing if you accomplish the growth you intend to tackle.

 

I am fully aware that this is a distinct possibility.

 

i only beg the question...who says YOU are broken anyway?

 

your communication and life may be perfectly fine. just because she doesn't like it doesn't mean she's the only jury.

 

I'll admit, if I was disinterested in something...looking back at my communication "blocks", I tended to fall into the daydreaming category. And while something may have seemed mundane to me, it was important to her otherwise she wouldn't be telling me. This is part of the learning on empathy I am doing. Recognizing the needs and feelings of others, and that my perceived "truth" is completely different than the "truth" they have in their mind.

 

If I had been telling her something about my day, and she stone-walled me, I'd be upset too. I've realized it's not so much WHAT you're talking about (the weather, what you had for lunch, etc.) but HOW you're talking.

[Diogenes]

I read this same story over and over again, and what the truth is isn't what they say. The only way to keep a woman's attention is to be unpredictable, they claim they want a nice guy, stability etc., but their hormones demand alpha male treatment on a regular basis. The minute you appear to be totally predictable they'll build up a laundry list of "issues" as a excuse to finally leave you. They'll stick around for a bit if you call their bluff by acting on these "issues" because you've thrown them off their storyline, but will eventually resort to even more vague terms, leading to " I've not been very happy and need to find myself" etc.

 

Granted there are problems in all relationships, but it takes two to run one. Many of the reasons I hear women leaving stable relationships for seem very trivial, and when translated into "Manease" mean " I've become bored, there's no challenge and excitement here, but I can't give him that reason for going". So what we need to do is be the best Men we can be, not just for them but for ourselves, "Man up" and call their bluff.

 

Once you are the "best you can be", doing whatever it takes ( working out, Tango lessons,following your bliss, counseling, you name it) you begin to see things in a different light and realize much of what you were blamed for is in fact issues totally beyond your control, and often just a rationalization being used to end a relationship in a way to alleviate the guilt of the other party.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Diogenes

[BeenHereBefore]

Well in regards to making myself a better man - I have been working very hard on learning better communication techniques, and I have been going to the gym almost every day for a month now, and the results of that are showing. Career-wise, she knows the success I had, and continue to have. Some more notes & quotes from the other night: From her (not necessarily in order, so don't draw any conclusions!! just typed as I recalled them): I do really wish we could have a great relationship in the future. I'd like to come see the therapist with you again if that's ok? I am afraid if we get back together too quickly we won't have done enough work to be successful, and we'll fall back into old problems. I was talking with my mom about us getting back together, and I told her I want to try to slowly reconnect in a couple months. It will be really, really hard, but I think we should spend some time apart with little contact...I fell sick to my stomach just thinking about it. At the end of the night she again gave me a very tight and long hug at the door. Usually I'd kiss her forehead, but as we were pulling out of the hug she faced up to me with her lips out and kissed me. I can feel some attraction rebuilding, and her emotions re-warming to me. It's hard to stay calm and collected, and not over-react.

[BeenHereBefore]

Sorry - not sure why my paragraphs are being collapsed?!!?