Thoughts on MM who get stuck

[Cabin]

Did everyone forget that Cabin and her MM were setting up the BS so that things benefited "them" before they left. Now that the shoe is on the other foot and the BS is looking out for "herself", the things she is doing are sooooo wrong. In the beginning all she and her MM were doing was to do to her and Cabin's bs what she is complaining about. Managed exit I believe is the term that was used. Now the BS is doing the managing. Funny how things are soo wrong now.

 

That is right, our plan was a managed exit. Neither spouse knows of the infidelity.

 

I am not saying the W is sooo wrong in protecting herself. But I question why she would want to inflict pain and harm on her children to get back at him and I question why she wants to hold on to someone who doesn't love her.

[bentnotbroken]

That is right, our plan was a managed exit. Neither spouse knows of the infidelity.

 

I am not saying the W is sooo wrong in protecting herself. But I question why she would want to inflict pain and harm on her children to get back at him and I question why she wants to hold on to someone who doesn't love her.

 

 

Only a guess, but your infidelity isn't as much a secret as either of you wants to believe. As far as the children go.....until she actually does something that displays what you claim...it is just that a claim.

[xxoo]

Her demands are ridiculous, but that is what courts are for. Her unreasonable "offer" doesn't mean he is stuck.

 

. It was her tactic to scare him into staying. Why would anyone want to be chosen because you bullied and scared someone into staying put?.

 

Scaring him into staying, or fighting for as much time with her kids as she can keep?

 

It is one thing to assume that she is trying to limit his time with the kids. Maybe her focus is trying to maximize HER time with her kids. Leave... go....but don't take our children from me!!! The thought brings me to my knees

 

Still, of course, the right thing to do is to share custody. Your AP has had time to adjust to that idea. Has she? Things might be MUCH different if he'd been more open about where he is, and what he is thinking with regards to the marriage, all along.

[woinlove]

Bnb's post prompted me to check your earlier thread on ending the two marriages, Cabin, where you wrote:

 

He is married to a nice nice woman who he married out of obligation after a five year courtship and the pressure to "**** or get off the pot". Plus he was almost 30 and he thought it was time to get married and have kids, like everyone else. He is sad to admit that he has never been in love with his wife, not even in the beginning, but he does have love for her as she is a wonderful mother.

 

You also wrote he was determined to get divorced without his W finding out about the affair. Is he still on that path? If so, I imagine it is the lies and deception are driving his W crazy, where she can't trust anything happening in her world right now, but once she gets away from the source of this, MM, and heals she should return to being the "nice woman" and "wonderful mother".

 

A wonderful mother of 3 children will continue to be a wonderful mother once her life gets back on even keel. I really think MM (if he is even telling it straight now) should not focus on the threats and instead have confidence in her as a mother. I doubt he has much to worry about in that regard - just tell him to focus on the fact that for years she was a wonderful mother and that is how you and he described her just mere months ago. Anyone who is going through massive deception along with massive hurt, will lash out, but that isn't going to stop them from being a wonderful mother even if their state of mind means there will be a few rough spots along the way.

[MissBee]

Did everyone forget that Cabin and her MM were setting up the BS so that things benefited "them" before they left. Now that the shoe is on the other foot and the BS is looking out for "herself", the things she is doing are sooooo wrong. In the beginning all she and her MM were doing was to do to her and Cabin's bs what she is complaining about. Managed exit I believe is the term that was used. Now the BS is doing the managing. Funny how things are soo wrong now.

 

I don't recall Cabin's full story and the only aspect I see wrong, in terms of the BS's behavior, is if she is going to purposefully make his kids hate him. That benefits no one, not even her.

 

If this man doesn't love her, and she is the one supposedly responsible for him being stuck, then I do hope she "releases him" to the betterment of everyone.

 

She should get what is rightfully hers legally and fairly and allow him to go on his merry way, while affording her kids a father.

 

As for her relating to him as a cheating husband, and her relating to Cabin, that's another matter. My concern is with how one can divorce one's spouse in such a manner that does the least harm to the kids. Definitely having an affair, is not high on the mark, as if your BS knows this, then you have stacked the odds against yourself, as far as her being cooperative goes.

[Cabin]

 

It is one thing to assume that she is trying to limit his time with the kids. Maybe her focus is trying to maximize HER time with her kids. Leave... go....but don't take our children from me!!!

 

Still, of course, the right thing to do is to share custody. Your AP has had time to adjust to that idea. Has she? Things might be MUCH different if he'd been more open about where he is, and what he is thinking with regards to the marriage, all along.

 

Yes, I agree that from her perspective, what he wants requires her to have days where she doesn't see her children, and how fair is that to her?

 

But for the children, if they are going to split, the right thing is equal access to both parents.

 

My AP had a very hard time realizing that, by leaving, there would be nights where he doesn't tuck them in...

 

You are likely very right that she hasn't had time to work through the idea of shared custody as this is very raw and painful right now. Perhaps in time...

 

And yes, if he'd been more open about the fundamental emptiness of their marriage all along, things would be different. But they are what they are right now, and we'll see where that takes us all.

[whichwayisup]

You are likely very right that she hasn't had time to work through the idea of shared custody as this is very raw and painful right now. Perhaps in time...

 

Shared custody meaning, you are in the picture immediately too? Living with him, while his kids are there? Being a step mom to his kids, or are you going to take your time and allow the kids to adjust to everything? Sorry I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if anything has been said about this..

[bentnotbroken]

As a fBS I can honestly say if I had not known but suspected there was someone else, I would be doing everything I could to keep my kids away from the AP..especially in the beginning. This "might" be the case with her.

[jwi71]

Believe it or not, the thing he is most torn about is his children. Every time I try to bring the conversation back to money, it's so secondary for him. He wants to be in his kids' lives.

 

He told her he would leave with only his clothing and personal items. He would leave her everything: the house, the furniture, the vehicle.

 

He just wants a fair custody/access agreement, and the financial means to be able to provide for his children while in his care.

 

Here's the thing Cabin, this is "not leaving for the kids" excuse.

 

And its bullcrap.

 

Here's why - and feel free to run this by your MM's lawyer (He's actually filed and retained one right?)

 

I gather that your MM and his W are of roughly equal in income. If not, he can offer spousal support and child support to make up for that. Once your MM has "taken care of the money", I can think of NO reason he cannot have 50-50 custody. And if the court disagrees...appeal.

 

Reason for appeal?

 

Discrimination.

 

The courts, given that money is no longer an issue via child and spousal support, is awarding a biased custody based on gender. And that is patently illegal - gender is a protected trait. The courts would have to justify any split that WASN'T 50-50. If he's a great dad it will be widely known - and guess what, his being a ****ty H doesn't mean he is a ****ty father. So great dad, he's paying support...I can't see a reason he CAN'T get 50-50 custody.

 

Of course, its up to him and his lawyer.

 

I'm am always wary of people who cannot ACT based on the actions of others.

[whichwayisup]

So, neither of your soon to be ex spouses know that you two both cheated and are having an affair. Are you sure she doesn't know? Also, fact is, it won't be long before she finds out. IF this does go to court, and the truth comes out he was having an affair while married, what are the laws about that in your state?

[Cabin]

Shared custody meaning, you are in the picture immediately too? Living with him, while his kids are there? Being a step mom to his kids, or are you going to take your time and allow the kids to adjust to everything? Sorry I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if anything has been said about this..

 

We would not rush to live together or join our families. We were thinking a couple of years down the road, to allow for a more natural transition and healing for everyone.

 

But yes, ideally down the road, I would like to be part of their lives and have my child share in that as well.

[woinlove]

Yes, I agree that from her perspective, what he wants requires her to have days where she doesn't see her children, and how fair is that to her?

 

But for the children, if they are going to split, the right thing is equal access to both parents.

 

My AP had a very hard time realizing that, by leaving, there would be nights where he doesn't tuck them in...

 

You are likely very right that she hasn't had time to work through the idea of shared custody as this is very raw and painful right now. Perhaps in time...

 

And yes, if he'd been more open about the fundamental emptiness of their marriage all along, things would be different. But they are what they are right now, and we'll see where that takes us all.

 

Have you two worked out how this would work? If the affair is to be kept secret, I assume he will have to have all his children time without you present. Given that he also has a job, that really doesn't leave much time for you two to be together or so you get together at work? Assuming you aren't planning to actively deceive the children and be introduced as a friend or some such thing, how long do you two plan to wait before bringing your relationship out into the open?

[whichwayisup]

We would not rush to live together or join our families. We were thinking a couple of years down the road, to allow for a more natural transition and healing for everyone.

 

But yes, ideally down the road, I would like to be part of their lives and have my child share in that as well.

 

Then I suggest be honest, don't hide or lie about how you two "got" together. The truth WILL come out, so it's better she hear it from him and not you or street gossip (neighbours, other friends).. Especially since you plan on being invovled in their kids lives at some point.

[Cabin]

Have you two worked out how this would work? If the affair is to be kept secret, I assume he will have to have all his children time without you present. Given that he also has a job, that really doesn't leave much time for you two to be together or so you get together at work? Assuming you aren't planning to actively deceive the children and be introduced as a friend or some such thing, how long do you two plan to wait before bringing your relationship out into the open?

 

Right - his time with his children would be his alone. On the days he wasn't with them, we would spend time together.

 

We do work together, but we are taking measures to end that as well by transferring to different locations.

 

The children already know me, so there will be no introductions per say, but a good year or two after the D, the relationship would be out in the open.

[Cabin]

Then I suggest be honest, don't hide or lie about how you two "got" together. The truth WILL come out, so it's better she hear it from him and not you or street gossip (neighbours, other friends).. Especially since you plan on being invovled in their kids lives at some point.

 

We did speak about the possibility of just telling her what has happened and pleading for mercy with the children.

 

Everyone's heard it said that all affairs thrive in secret, but we both admit, that if pushed by discovery, we'd benefit from the expediancy of the process of just being together.

 

This is not a cake-eating affair. (And yes, I'm sure someone will tell me that's what they all thought too.)

[woinlove]

Then I suggest be honest, don't hide or lie about how you two "got" together. The truth WILL come out, so it's better she hear it from him and not you or street gossip (neighbours, other friends).. Especially since you plan on being invovled in their kids lives at some point.

 

I agree with this and I think this would help everything settle down sooner. I recall how you described MM having both his W and you at a small dinner party, playing her for a fool. Who knows what MM is telling her to try to keep up the farce. In your own words, she is a nice woman and a wonderful mother, and so she will take good care of the children as soon as her feet are on solid ground. Right now she is immersed in a massive heap of lies and deception. That really can't be good for the children.

[Silly_Girl]

Cabin, I don't see a need to ridicule your post. I know it's hard for a man to leave if it is going to impact negatively on the kids and the relationship with the kids. I've helped dads go through the court process when there's parental alienation. That's those that have the strength and energy to keep fighting.

 

I hope he manages to find a way forward. Staying will become more and more difficult for all involved, I fear.

[woinlove]

I'm sorry to hear that the children know you. What is MM thinking? Sometime in the future his children will just assume their father got together with that woman they knew in some other context and won't ask questions? Or will he lie to them to make them think that? Or will it all be revealed in a few years? What is he thinking?

[xxoo]

And yes, if he'd been more open about the fundamental emptiness of their marriage all along, things would be different. But they are what they are right now, and we'll see where that takes us all.

 

Going back to the topic--it may be likely that MM (married men who are in affairs) are more "stuck" in marriages than non-cheating fathers because of the situation that they created. They've been taking time to mentally exit the marriage, grow comfortable with the idea, and even "test out" a new relationship. They are much readier to end the marriage than the "left" spouse, who has been gaslighted and blindsided. And, with a new woman in the wings, they are in a hurry to get out of the marriage. The cost of that is--he may need to give more at the negotiation table. The less ready she is to divorce, the more she'll demand to sign the papers.

 

None of this means that men are stuck in marriages, but it may mean that MM feel stuck when the want a quick, fair out.

[wannabdone]

If I am not, for finances, kids, whatever the reason....then I thank him for the love but I have to move on to someone who I can build a life with.

 

I think this is a great point!!!! I am trying to look at my A not so much as all of the time I wasted, and all of the tears and heartache (which, is hard and I still do.... just working at getting to this point), but I am trying to look at it as, I never knew in a million years until I met this man, that I could love someone so much, and so unconditionally. I have realized through this just how much I have to offer, and what it is exactly what I want. So, for that I am eternally grateful, as if I had never met him, I very well might be strolling through life, not knowing how much I really had and have to offer.

 

We have the ability with anything in life to make it effect us the way we want. Sure it hurts, that we can not stop. But in the end, how do we want this to have effected us. Do we want to try to see it as a benefit, and lessons learned and grow from it??? Or do we want to get bitter and hateful and never be the people that we can be??? I for one, choose to learn and grow, and love and be happy.

 

What ever reason he stays, my heart does go out to him and to my MM as well. They will be tortured and miserable, living a life of fake and phony, never really getting to have the real joy in life, which is to have someone by your side forever that is 100% your bestfriend, your lover, your companion in every way. I will get to have that. And the very thought of that, excites. me. On both ends. Sorry, I have to admit, I do love him, he has hurt me tremendously, and I get a small (really large) bit of satisfaction that he will be miserable.

[Cabin]

I'm sorry to hear that the children know you. What is MM thinking? Sometime in the future his children will just assume their father got together with that woman they knew in some other context and won't ask questions? Or will he lie to them to make them think that? Or will it all be revealed in a few years? What is he thinking?

 

We both realize that people will wonder about the nature of our relationship once we are "out"...

 

How he will deal with this with his children, I do not know. I suppose at some point, when they are old enough to ask, yes, we would admit to falling in love before our marriages ended.

[bentnotbroken]

So you are going to lie to them for years? Seems that you and he would be sick of the deception by this point in time.

 

I think you and he both have this vision in your head of how you like it all to go but I don't think it meets up with reality nor are you taking into consideration the damage that will be done when things come out and they will eventually. Poor kids!

 

 

It's their timeline...damn everyone else. You know everyone is going to be placed into the desired positions so that things will go "well" for Cabin and MM.

[SBC]

Going back to the topic--it may be likely that MM (married men who are in affairs) are more "stuck" in marriages than non-cheating fathers because of the situation that they created. They've been taking time to mentally exit the marriage, grow comfortable with the idea, and even "test out" a new relationship. They are much readier to end the marriage than the "left" spouse, who has been gaslighted and blindsided. And, with a new woman in the wings, they are in a hurry to get out of the marriage. The cost of that is--he may need to give more at the negotiation table. The less ready she is to divorce, the more she'll demand to sign the papers.

 

None of this means that men are stuck in marriages, but it may mean that MM feel stuck when the want a quick, fair out.

 

Very insightful --and damn true.

[daisy love]

I agree with you, but ultimately he will do what he thinks is best.

I feel badly for him, and for her.

Hi Cabin! Sorry your going thru this! Ya, me and pooh bear tried a managed exit to. He finally snapped and figured out that he loved me enough to get on with it. He ended up giving her more money than he wanted but he thinks our love is worth it.

 

Your love is probably a good daddy so he should let the lawyers handle that!

Just know that if he really really loves you he will make it happen, ok?

[SBC]

Hi Cabin! Sorry your going thru this! Ya, me and pooh bear tried a managed exit to. He finally snapped and figured out that he loved me enough to get on with it. He ended up giving her more money than he wanted but he thinks our love is worth it.

 

 

See now, this would not make me a happy woman. To me, this represents a man that is impatient, and lacks the ability to follow though with things. By giving away more than he wanted (or should of) he is not demonstrating an ability to care for our future.

 

Fair is fair, and I am all for fair. But, I want a man that can make a plan, and can stick to the plan with the thought that everyone involved comes out ahead.

 

Love is not enough. It is only a good start.