Thoughts on MM who get stuck

[wannabdone]

Cabin,

 

You certainly do have a lot of work ahead of you. I hope it all works out for you.

 

So, question.... do you think he is staying or not? It seemed like in the original post you were kind of leaning toward he would in fact probably stay, and then towards the end, maybe not. Just curious what your actual gut was on this.

 

I do understand what your going through, and again, think its easy to generalize what people should or shouldn't do, what they should or shouldn't be willing to give up. When really we don't know all the dynamics of this.

 

In my situation, the state I live in, until there is a temporary order, the children remain with the parental unit who stays at the house. So, unless a MM is willing to kick his W out and take on the kids (if he can get her out of there, which legally he can't force her to), or he remains in the house while they wait for a temporary order (which who in their right mind would want to go through that?), if he left, he would not be able to see his children, unless she allowed it and when she allowed it. Also during that time until temporary court order, he must pay 100% of the bills. On average it takes 4-5 months in our state for a temporary order, and can go on longer if one party wants to be difficult. So, I can understand that paying for everything, would leave someone where I live with nothing for them to pay for themselves, and could also, depending on the parent that has the children, leave them for months not able to see their children. Again, this all depends on that mother, if the kids are with her, if she would be willing to hurt her children in order to be vindictive. In my case I know 100% that the W, in fact WOULD be that vindictive. Its very sad, but true. So, I don't know about your MM's W, how far she is on the crazy meter. I do think a lot of times they will throw out some ungodly thing, in hopes to get their H to stay. And if you call them on their bluff, they won't in the long run hurt their kids that way. Again, just boils down to how crazy this lady is.

 

But as far as blending, you guys living together, reclocating, etc. I know you said a couple of years. In my state the other parent can determine if someone can live with someone if they aren't married. So if this woman decides to drag this out for years, if you state is like mine, she can also make sure the two of you do not live together. Also, with the relocating thing, again, in my state, you can not move outside of an hour from where the children started, and keep custody. You might want to look into that as well. It might not be that easy to just relocate, so you can start fresh. And again, depending on how bitter she is, she can make your life smooth, or a living hell.

 

No matter, what..... its going to be hard. I pray for you that you guys can work through this.

[whichwayisup]

Also, with the relocating thing, again, in my state, you can not move outside of an hour from where the children started, and keep custody.

 

I think it's like this is most States and in Canada as well.

 

Also, one would think both parents wouldn't want to move their kids so far out of their comfort zone, as well as it's better for the kids to have access to BOTH parents at any time. I know of some couples who split up, live quite close (same school district) to one another for the kids sake.

 

I just hope they both put the kids feelings and needs first, and if that means the process takes longer and family counseling is necessary, they should do that to help with the changes and adjustments.

[uneek74]

I have been lurking for a long time, and reading post that apply to my situation. My relationship ended recently after 6 years. I can identify with a lot of points made by Cabin and Wannabedone.

[MissBee]

I think this is a great point!!!! I am trying to look at my A not so much as all of the time I wasted, and all of the tears and heartache (which, is hard and I still do.... just working at getting to this point), but I am trying to look at it as, I never knew in a million years until I met this man, that I could love someone so much, and so unconditionally. I have realized through this just how much I have to offer, and what it is exactly what I want. So, for that I am eternally grateful, as if I had never met him, I very well might be strolling through life, not knowing how much I really had and have to offer.

 

We have the ability with anything in life to make it effect us the way we want. Sure it hurts, that we can not stop. But in the end, how do we want this to have effected us. Do we want to try to see it as a benefit, and lessons learned and grow from it??? Or do we want to get bitter and hateful and never be the people that we can be??? I for one, choose to learn and grow, and love and be happy.

 

What ever reason he stays, my heart does go out to him and to my MM as well. They will be tortured and miserable, living a life of fake and phony, never really getting to have the real joy in life, which is to have someone by your side forever that is 100% your bestfriend, your lover, your companion in every way. I will get to have that. And the very thought of that, excites. me. On both ends. Sorry, I have to admit, I do love him, he has hurt me tremendously, and I get a small (really large) bit of satisfaction that he will be miserable.

 

LOL! I understand your feelings, it's still fresh though, so it is to be expected, but when the situation is 100% behind you and you're happy, you truly wish that person to be happy as well.

 

To the bolded---I concur! The man I had the A with, was one of the most compatible with me to date. Being with him made me realize the beauty of natural compatibility and complement; likewise there were negatives that helped me realize things I wouldn't want for myself. But again, I had to take it only as far as it could go. The sky was NOT the limit in that relationship and he was practice for relationships to come I have the idea about some men/relationships being "counterfeits", where they almost seem like the right thing, but there is just some element about it that is not right and won't ever be right. I was discussing this with a friend of mine, in relation to a guy I was seeing recently, and she brought up the great point that "Maybe he is not a counterfeit...maybe he is a real $10 bill, but it just so happens that you need $100". That was brilliant to me! As it took away totally making this person/situation seem negative and instead highlights what is good about them/what is real but also points out that although that is the case, it is not what you need.

 

There is a group of men in the world that are a fit for me. Within that group there is probably a large group that are an okay fit, a smaller group that are a good fit, an even smaller group that are a great fit and the smallest group are a perfect fit. The perfect fit IMO will come with the right circumstances or circumstances will work out to our favor. If I meet a man who is a fit but everything surrounding us being together is contentious....then I may have to really consider what category he falls in, is he irreplaceable, is the situation worth it OR can I move forward and trust that us being together was not befitting given the circumstances?

[MissBee]

See now, this would not make me a happy woman. To me, this represents a man that is impatient, and lacks the ability to follow though with things. By giving away more than he wanted (or should of) he is not demonstrating an ability to care for our future.

Fair is fair, and I am all for fair. But, I want a man that can make a plan, and can stick to the plan with the thought that everyone involved comes out ahead.

 

Love is not enough. It is only a good start .

 

That is very much how I feel!

[daisy love]

See now, this would not make me a happy woman. To me, this represents a man that is impatient, and lacks the ability to follow though with things. By giving away more than he wanted (or should of) he is not demonstrating an ability to care for our future.

 

Fair is fair, and I am all for fair. But, I want a man that can make a plan, and can stick to the plan with the thought that everyone involved comes out ahead.

 

Love is not enough. It is only a good start.

Oh! Gosh I'm real sorry. Your MM must not love you like my sweet pooh bear loves me! Cuz my pooh bear thinks us being together forever is way more important than a beach house in Miami!

[wannabdone]

I just want to point out something particularly to wanttobedone. You keep mentioning your sit. and your mm's wife and the crazy making. Granted you may be calling it just like it/she is but yet if this woman went through 6 d days and gas lighting and all the crazy making that goes along with all that, it certainly provides an explanation of why someone would not act sensible or responsible nor have her or her kids best interest at heart.

 

I don't mean to single you out wanttobedone but come on, your mm put his wife through hell with 6 d days and yes she has some ownership also by not kicking his sorry ass out when the 2nd one happened but yet.

 

Not many ow are going to get on here and tell about the gas lighting and the other crazy making that goes on so it's real easy to judge but perhaps people ought to take a step back about the crazy vengeful wife thing.

 

Hey LG.... I didn't feel like you were singling me out, at all. And trust me, just because I didn't put that in there, I know this.

 

I really am just calling it the way that it is, this woman outside of this bat **** crazy (I think she might sleep upside down )..... However, I know that this situation and all of the Ddays, and everything else has driven her more crazy. ABSOLUTELY!!!!! I'm telling you, I have not lived with this man, and he has driven me crazy. He gaslight's her and me and probably everyone else he comes into contact with. (btw, I had to look up what that even meant )..... So, I do feel for her and I know why she acts the way she does. It is sad, however that she has lost her protective instinct for her children and thrown them into a lot of things and really not cared about what happened to them, as long as she has made her point. That's awful. I hate it for the children. I just was saying, no matter where or how she became as nuts as she is, She simply doesn't care about if it hurt the children or not.

And to the point with cabin.... there are women and men out there, no matter how they got to the point they are at, do not care who gets hurt in their process of what they are trying to accomplish.

[TurboGirl]

OP,

your MM needs to suck it up and play ball if he wants to leave. No whining. Aww, poor baby.. only gets to have his kids twice a month? He needs to man up and go to court and fight it. Anyway, in my state, 50% is the rule. The wife of an adulterer gets more, by the way, if the grounds are adultery. What's the problem with that? OHHH right, not enough money leftover for you. Sorry, how silly of me.

 

If he really and truly loves you and wants to be with you, there will be no impediment... no problem to large to overcome - and he certainly wouldn't be whining to you about it. He is whining about all that because he is looking for excuse to stay.

[Emme]

Cabin, I thank you for that perspective. I never viewed it that way before. I guess it's just what's taught in society and the way you see things. I really wish this was easy for everyone involved but the reality check is always in our face. I wish accomplishing peace with all parties was an easy task. It all comes down to the people involved. I wish you the best dear.

[pureinheart]

I know many are quick to assume this is an "excuse", but I think many married men who want to leave their wives simply get screwed into staying...

 

... currently my AP was handed a separation "agreement" drafted by his W that would give him access to his kids only two times per month and would have him giving 50% of his NET income to her.

 

Of course the terms are ridiculous and would not be supported in Court... but she has made it clear that she will make going to Court such a drawn out hassle, depleting him of all his time, energy, and money. In the meantime, she intends to make it clear to the children that they were left by him. Even though he wants shared custody and to be an active parent.

 

Her M.O. is to bully him into staying, even though he's told her he was never in love with her.

 

I understand she is hurting. I guess what I don't understand is wanting to keep someone who has just told you they don't want to be with you and don't love you. If it were me, painful as that might be, I would pick up the pieces and move on.

 

Another thing I've noticed in just how differently the "outside world" reacts and responds to men and women wanting to leave their partners. As a woman, I've had nothing but support from people (friends, colleagues, family members) in saying that my marriage is extremely unfulfilling and I don't want to be in it anymore. People respond to me with support, often citing how important it is to be happy in life and how we only get one chance at life.

 

Now, if a man says the same.. that he wants out of his unfulfilling marriage... well, he's a villain, an A-hole, a heartless scumbag. My AP has spoken to many friends/colleagues/family members and the common message to him is to "stay put" and "suck it up" and get his happiness from his children.

 

I'm noticing how women are celebrated while men are demonized for wanting the same thing: happiness.

 

Judges are sick of their valuable time, plus taxpayers money being wasted by ridiculous demands such as these...the men judges are pissed because they see themselves being screwed and the women judges are fed up with dependant women...it makes them look bad.

 

Let her submit those unreasonable demands...she will get the worst end of the deal...I watched it happen personally.

[26pointblue]

I agree that money doesn't equal happiness, but no money does usually equal unhappiness, at least to some degree.

 

The amount of money she's talking about would have him living in total squalour, unable to provide a home for his children, just how she wants it.

 

Meanwhile she would almost double her net take home. That simply makes no sense. Although... in that case, she'd have lots of money. Wonder if she'd be happy.

 

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm just writing to vehemently disagree with the above statement. There are plenty of people in the country and the world who have no money and are very happy. Just like there are plenty of people in the country and the world who have a lot of money and are miserable.

 

Other than that . . . from your posts I do think your MM is just giving you excuses. If he wants out of his prior obligations he needs to pay, which means hiring a lawyer & going to court to work out what he believes is in his and his childrens' best interest, so he can be with you. It's really that simple.

 

The rest of this is just noise. Yeah so the courts can be unfair to men & divorce can be really messy. Does he want to get divorced no matter what the 'hassle' so he can be with you properly, or not?? If he does he will have to put up with the 'hassle' & unfairness & expense etc. of getting divorced.

 

I don't buy any of the excuses to staying married and I think that if he stays married just because it's cheaper, more convenient, easier, whatever... then he is still just as much of a coward as when he was cheating. He just wants everything easy & life is not like that, he needs to grow up & pick one way & go with it.

 

I do understand that he wants to be able to see his kids . . . again, child custody issues are what naturally happens when people get divorced, & he needs to fight through the courts to be able to spend as much time with the kids as possible. If he doesn't want to do that & would rather stay a family unit then he needs to stop hurting the family unit by cheating/being away from his kids in that way. Again, it's simple. He needs to make a decision & act on it.

[wannabdone]

lol..........I see the maturity phase passed quite quickly.

 

LMAO!!!

 

Agreed!!!

 

How old are we again? Whats next? My dad can beat up your dad?

 

Pl-e-a-se.

[MissBee]

LMAO!!!

 

Agreed!!!

 

How old are we again? Whats next? My dad can beat up your dad?

 

Pl-e-a-se.

 

 

Funny...

[wannabdone]

 

Funny...

 

I try!

[SBC]

Oh! Gosh I'm real sorry. Your MM must not love you like my sweet pooh bear loves me! Cuz my pooh bear thinks us being together forever is way more important than a beach house in Miami!

 

Who is talking a beach house in Miami?

 

You cannot be for real. I think I will just go 'no contact' with you from here.

[fooled once]

Only read the first page but 2 weekends a month is standard joint custody.

 

Heck, he may spend more time with them after the divorce I stead of spending his current free time in an affair. He will get 2 weekends a mo th to not worry about his kids knowing daddy had an affair. That would be a win for him. Why is he so concerned about visitation? He doesn't seem to care now about spending time with them when he is off with you.

 

As for alimony, he should expect her to possibly get some for a limited time. Also, there are federal guidelines regarding how much he would be financially responsible for. She cannot get more than 48-50% of his pay. She can get 1/2 retirement/ 401k. Standard stuff.

 

She threw numbers out and he counters. That's how it's done. She can't stop him from divorcing. She may be pissed right now, but in time, she may not be so angry. Does she know about you? Maybe telling her about you will get her more pissed off and she will want to be rid of the cheater.

 

If he stays, he is using $$$ as an excuse. He can always make more money. Isn't being with his love more important?

 

I personally have never negatively judged a man who chose divorce over cheating. When my BFF and her now ex h divorced, she got a ton of $$ from the marriage, probably cause of his infidelity and had that come out in court he would have lost his job, so he paid her hush money

 

The excuses people use to not divorce are amazing. How can anyone respect someone who stays cause leaving is too much of a hassle. If I was the OW in this situation, I would be having second thoughts since the MM is more concerned about money than being with the person they claim to love

[fooled once]

Judges are sick of their valuable time, plus taxpayers money being wasted by ridiculous demands such as these...the men judges are pissed because they see themselves being screwed and the women judges are fed up with dependant women...it makes them look bad.

 

Let her submit those unreasonable demands...she will get the worst end of the deal...I watched it happen personally.

 

Actually, that is the job of a judge who sits in family court. How do you know what a judge/judges feel? Care to share a link where it shows what you stated?

 

And FYI- just because she wrote up something doesn't mean it is going to be submitted in court!

[whichwayisup]

Oh! Gosh I'm real sorry. Your MM must not love you like my sweet pooh bear loves me! Cuz my pooh bear thinks us being together forever is way more important than a beach house in Miami!

 

What are you, 16? Is this the female version of "my dink is bigger than your dink" comment? A very unnecessary and bitchy shot at SCB..

 

Don't count those chickens before they hatch Daisy, your MM is still married and has had recent sex with his wife (one time that you know of..), so he isn't your full time "pooh bear" yet.

[Silly_Girl]

OP,

your MM needs to suck it up and play ball if he wants to leave. No whining. Aww, poor baby.. only gets to have his kids twice a month? He needs to man up and go to court and fight it. Anyway, in my state, 50% is the rule. The wife of an adulterer gets more, by the way, if the grounds are adultery. What's the problem with that? OHHH right, not enough money leftover for you. Sorry, how silly of me.

 

Are you saying Cabin has chosen this relationship through financial motivation???

[Silly_Girl]

Divorce was easy for me. I got the good bit. Custody. I have a remarkable relationship with my son, my ex definitely does not yet he was a wonderful dad when we were a family. In my experience 90% of men 'lose' when there's a split - where the kids are concerned. If it's not WW3 at home I can understand many man deciding to hold out until the kids are older, you can never get your child's childhood back.

[Silly_Girl]

Actually, that is the job of a judge who sits in family court. How do you know what a judge/judges feel? Care to share a link where it shows what you stated?

 

It's funny, Pure. It's standard for posters to 'know' what someone's MM is thinking, or what his motivations are, but you can't suggest same in another situation. I know where you're coming from. My ex spent a lot of time in court and we spoke with barristers and solicitors ad nauseum. I think you're right!

[26pointblue]

Divorce was easy for me. I got the good bit. Custody. I have a remarkable relationship with my son, my ex definitely does not yet he was a wonderful dad when we were a family. In my experience 90% of men 'lose' when there's a split - where the kids are concerned. If it's not WW3 at home I can understand many man deciding to hold out until the kids are older, you can never get your child's childhood back.

 

 

I agree, so why cheat? [These questions are posed to the hypothetical MM]. If it's not WW3 at home & you want to stay for the kids' sake, why not try your best to make things work & have a happy family unit? You are wasting many precious moments of your child's childhood by running off having an affair, cheating on their mom . . . why?? Either do the hard work to get divorced or do the hard work to stay married as cohesively as possible. To me cheating is the easy/lazy way out. If people would only put half the effort that they put into the affair into their marriage, or even replace it with time with their kids or a healthier distraction/hobby/what have you, I don't think they'd have as much to complain about. I just hate when MMs complain about their marriage yet stay & cheat. It starts to get old really fast! Like, oh poor MM.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Oh! Gosh I'm real sorry. Your MM must not love you like my sweet pooh bear loves me! Cuz my pooh bear thinks us being together forever is way more important than a beach house in Miami!

 

Specially when he gets to have sex with the old ball & chain and you too, Daisy Ducky Doo! Your sweet pooh bear knows how to have it ALL!

[phillyfan]

Dude her MO is to bully him? Mayb that's because his MO has been f**kin anotha chick behind her back 4 a while. Dude don't feel bad 4 him he knows how 2 get wat he wants. Afta all hes been cheatin all this time but he's got u belivin he's the victim. He ain't stuck, he's just enjoyin havin u AND his wife. He's rite where he wants 2 b.

[RainDown]

I haven't read this whole thread, but has this man seen a lawyer? Divorce, custody, alimony, visitation, and division of assets is pretty much laid out by the state if the parties do not agree. BW can draft any kind of outrageous separation agreement she wants, but ultimately the state will decide who pays who and how much, what the visitation schedule will be and all those other details.

 

In the end, if the parties cannot agree the state will decide for them and it's an easy matter to determine what the state will decide in your particular case if you leave it up to them.

 

I think a lawyer and a bit of research on MMs part is in order. That will take the guesswork out of all of this and he'll know exactly what the outcome will be, no matter what his BW "demands".