Thoughts on MM who get stuck

[Mme. Chaucer]

You know, I am always down on cheating, lying, dishonest behavior in general. I have done my share of "bad" things and I'm pretty vigilant with myself to guard against treading upon dangerous ground in my life today.

 

So, I am pretty unsympathetic with any of the self-made problems of the OW's in this forum and in the big world.

 

Yes indeed, things that are "bigger" than us do happen in life, and who am I to say that you, Cabin, and your AP are not star-crossed lovers for real. Maybe you are.

 

STILL. PLEASE try to distance yourself from denigrating the victim/ target of his and your dishonest behavior.

 

How she is reacting to the potential loss of her husband and her family as she knows it is none of your business AT ALL.

 

And if your AP is truly done with being married to her, he WILL NOT be "stuck" in his marriage. People who are unhappily married get divorced hundreds of times every day, and without even having an AP waiting in the wings. Getting divorced, hacking through all the horrible custody and financial messes involved in that, is what the unhappily married people DO in our society. Since more than half of marriages end in divorce, I don't think an overweening percentage of miserable husbands are permanently "stuck" because their wife is making divorce unpleasant for them.

 

If he's done with his family life, he WILL get divorced, whether you are waiting there for him or not. If he's not done ... he will stay married and either continue to have affairs, or maybe change that.

[2sure]

Unless a person is very rich, rich enough to have the ability to hide assets...divorce screws everyone pretty much equally. Its only unfair to whichever spouse you have in front of you. To most people who say they cannot leave their spouse because they will be screwed...that simply means they prefer that thier ex be screwed more. Nobody "wins" all the way around in a divorce and its generally understood to all except those who feel they have to win or they wont go.

[donnamaybe]

It's funny, Pure. It's standard for posters to 'know' what someone's MM is thinking, or what his motivations are, but you can't suggest same in another situation. I know where you're coming from. My ex spent a lot of time in court and we spoke with barristers and solicitors ad nauseum. I think you're right!

Um, I think it would be obvious that people feel they "know" what an MM is thinking because we read the stories on here ALL the time.

 

See any judges posting lately about their custody cases?

[Silly_Girl]

Um, I think it would be obvious that people feel they "know" what an MM is thinking because we read the stories on here ALL the time.

 

See any judges posting lately about their custody cases?

 

Stating you know what a person is thinking when you've never so much as clapped eyes on them is one and the same, to me.

[wannabdone]

Unless a person is very rich, rich enough to have the ability to hide assets...divorce screws everyone pretty much equally. Its only unfair to whichever spouse you have in front of you. To most people who say they cannot leave their spouse because they will be screwed...that simply means they prefer that thier ex be screwed more. Nobody "wins" all the way around in a divorce and its generally understood to all except those who feel they have to win or they wont go.

 

 

Agreed!!! No body "wins" in divorces. Each party loses in most cases. And it does take someone with tons to money to do the above.

 

Someone posted that majority of M ends in D, and ppl D everday. Yes all very true!!! But as of late with the economy the rate of D has increasingly dropped. They have had many specials and articles that are over this subject. With the economy and the state everything is in right now, more and more ppl are staying in their M, due to finances.

[whichwayisup]

Agreed!!! No body "wins" in divorces. Each party loses in most cases. And it does take someone with tons to money to do the above.

 

Someone posted that majority of M ends in D, and ppl D everday. Yes all very true!!! But as of late with the economy the rate of D has increasingly dropped. They have had many specials and articles that are over this subject. With the economy and the state everything is in right now, more and more ppl are staying in their M, due to finances.

 

Only winners in divorces are the lawyers!

[TurboGirl]

Are you saying Cabin has chosen this relationship through financial motivation???

 

Not necessarily. HOWEVER, if her MM has to cough up 50% of his pay for support & alimony, AND 1/2 of his penion/401k....

 

Times in the future might not be so much fun.

 

Anytime you get involved with a MM, and you hope, think, believe, that he will leave his W for you and divorce her, and subsequently marry you, $$$ will have to figure into the equation. Just not gonna be as much $$$ there for wife #2 as there was for wife#1 and kids. Not to mention attorneys' fees!

[wannabdone]

Only winners in divorces are the lawyers!

 

SO TRUE!!!!

[2sunny]

I know many are quick to assume this is an "excuse", but I think many married men who want to leave their wives simply get screwed into staying...

 

... currently my AP was handed a separation "agreement" drafted by his W that would give him access to his kids only two times per month and would have him giving 50% of his NET income to her.

 

Of course the terms are ridiculous and would not be supported in Court... but she has made it clear that she will make going to Court such a drawn out hassle, depleting him of all his time, energy, and money. In the meantime, she intends to make it clear to the children that they were left by him. Even though he wants shared custody and to be an active parent.

 

Her M.O. is to bully him into staying, even though he's told her he was never in love with her.

 

I understand she is hurting. I guess what I don't understand is wanting to keep someone who has just told you they don't want to be with you and don't love you. If it were me, painful as that might be, I would pick up the pieces and move on.

 

Another thing I've noticed in just how differently the "outside world" reacts and responds to men and women wanting to leave their partners. As a woman, I've had nothing but support from people (friends, colleagues, family members) in saying that my marriage is extremely unfulfilling and I don't want to be in it anymore. People respond to me with support, often citing how important it is to be happy in life and how we only get one chance at life.

 

Now, if a man says the same.. that he wants out of his unfulfilling marriage... well, he's a villain, an A-hole, a heartless scumbag. My AP has spoken to many friends/colleagues/family members and the common message to him is to "stay put" and "suck it up" and get his happiness from his children.

 

I'm noticing how women are celebrated while men are demonized for wanting the same thing: happiness.

 

 

no one gets "screwed into staying" - everyone has CHOICES! his choices was to stay - until his wife changed the agreement! notice HE wasn't willing to change it all - IF he were THAT unhappy - HE would have been the one to change it.

 

yep - he may owe her money - the court will decide that. yep - he may not see his kids as often as he likes - but HE made THAT his reality when he DECIDED to cheat!

 

he's not the man you think he is! open your eyes.

[Owl]

So...a thought occurred to me (it's a rare thing...we might consider celebrating! ).

 

Cabin, your AP knows his wife better than anyone else in the world could, having been married to her this long.

 

Given that...why didn't he anticipate her reaction, and plan accordingly?

 

What she's doing isn't unusual, in fact it's pretty typical. This shouldn't have come as any kind of surprise at all. Given that...I don't understand why he wasn't prepared and already had this included in his "exit strategy" gameplan?

 

I can't understand why this wasn't already considered and a contingency plan already in place to deal with such a reaction from her.

 

Regardless of THAT...at this point, he SHOULD be planning out his strategy to deal with this...which I'm curious to hear. What is it he's considering as methods to deal/respond to her 'offer'?

[2sunny]

i'm sure her great life plan wasn't to marry a man who would betray her - then betray herself by staying...

 

since he plans to continue betraying her and the M - i think she's smart to have a plan and a boundary - and stick to it!

 

i guess supporting him to continue cheating and expecting his W to continue to go along with that plan was what you expected?

 

if not - then what?

[2sure]

Again, I know I am a bit black & white , and also a tad jaded (well, I call it realistic)..but if finances are such an issue:

 

If you cant afford to play, stay home.

[donnamaybe]

i'm sure her great life plan wasn't to marry a man who would betray her - then betray herself by staying...

 

since he plans to continue betraying her and the M - i think she's smart to have a plan and a boundary - and stick to it!

Yep.

 

There's another thread here called something like "what's wrong with a managed exit?" Yes. What is indeed?

[wannabdone]

Again, I know I am a bit black & white , and also a tad jaded (well, I call it realistic)..but if finances are such an issue:

 

If you cant afford to play, stay home.

 

 

GREAT POINT!!! Don't write checks, your ass can't cash!!!!

[country_gurl]

I know many are quick to assume this is an "excuse", but I think many married men who want to leave their wives simply get screwed into staying...

 

... currently my AP was handed a separation "agreement" drafted by his W that would give him access to his kids only two times per month and would have him giving 50% of his NET income to her.

 

Of course the terms are ridiculous and would not be supported in Court... but she has made it clear that she will make going to Court such a drawn out hassle, depleting him of all his time, energy, and money. In the meantime, she intends to make it clear to the children that they were left by him. Even though he wants shared custody and to be an active parent.

 

Her M.O. is to bully him into staying, even though he's told her he was never in love with her.

 

I understand she is hurting. I guess what I don't understand is wanting to keep someone who has just told you they don't want to be with you and don't love you. If it were me, painful as that might be, I would pick up the pieces and move on.

 

Another thing I've noticed in just how differently the "outside world" reacts and responds to men and women wanting to leave their partners. As a woman, I've had nothing but support from people (friends, colleagues, family members) in saying that my marriage is extremely unfulfilling and I don't want to be in it anymore. People respond to me with support, often citing how important it is to be happy in life and how we only get one chance at life.

 

Now, if a man says the same.. that he wants out of his unfulfilling marriage... well, he's a villain, an A-hole, a heartless scumbag. My AP has spoken to many friends/colleagues/family members and the common message to him is to "stay put" and "suck it up" and get his happiness from his children.

 

I'm noticing how women are celebrated while men are demonized for wanting the same thing: happiness.

 

I'm assuming, however, that she's AWARE that he's having an AFFAIR.........so don't you think that puts a completely different spin on their separation than if he was NOT in an affair but decided he wanted to end the marriage?

 

What kind of man tells his wife and the mother of children that he helped to conceive tells her that he "never loved her"? Can it get more hurtful than that? If he didn't love then why:

 

a) did he marry her?

b) continue sticking his d*ck in her and getting her pregnant?

 

It's obvious that she believe his affair has broken up their marriage and family and she's trying to take control in a situation that up to present she's had no control over.

 

Of course men like him are villainized; a man isn't really all that much of a man if he's got a wife and family and he's got a mistress on the side.

[wannabdone]

:lmao:

 

I like you!

 

 

Thats too funny... I sware, I saw you had posted on here and wanted to read what you wrote, because I had just thought... "I like her"....

[Mme. Chaucer]

If I understand the situation correctly, neither Cabin's husband nor her AP's wife know about the affair - the "reason" that their spouses are seeking divorce.

 

Wait until the wife finds out. Cabin, you think she's uncooperative now! Whew!

 

And, it sounds like your husband is being very docile now. I wonder if this will hold true when he finds out why he is being divorced?

 

Seems to be human nature that people can be a lot more graceful about losing someone for reasons other than being replaced by a different model ...

[Cabin]

Anyway, in my state, 50% is the rule. The wife of an adulterer gets more, by the way, if the grounds are adultery. What's the problem with that? OHHH right, not enough money leftover for you. Sorry, how silly of me.

 

50% division of the matrimonial home and assets is the rule here too, but NOT 50% of a spouse's gross pay. More than likely, she will not be entitled to spousal support, despite her push for the maximum.

 

Infidelity is not factored into rulings about child support/spousal support where I live.

 

Oh and, I am entirely financial stable on my own. I could easily support him (and his family) in my own with little difficulty. So the amount he takes home is not a primary consideration for me in choosing him.

 

And I hope I've been very clear in my responses: his concern revolve around the children and the harm that would be inflicted on them in a mean custody battle. He is leaving her every single item they own, plus their home, and just wants his relationship with his children to remain in tact.

[Cabin]

There are plenty of people in the country and the world who have no money and are very happy.

QUOTE]

 

Do you know any?

 

I work with families who cannot afford to buy bread, or lightbulbs, or heat their homes. That isn't happiness.

 

It's ludicrous to suggest that people who cannot afford the bare necessecities - needs! - of life are happy.

[Cabin]

Only read the first page but 2 weekends a month is standard joint custody.

 

Joint custody - entitled shared/split custody here - is anywhere in the range of a 40/60% to 50/50% split of time. Two weekends a month is not that.

[jwi71]

50% division of the matrimonial home and assets is the rule here too, but NOT 50% of a spouse's gross pay. More than likely, she will not be entitled to spousal support, despite her push for the maximum.

 

I agree...the only way she gets 50% gross is if he agrees to it. She will, as you already know, get the "usual".

 

Infidelity is not factored into rulings about child support/spousal support where I live.

 

Only rarely and only then its because the judge PERSONALLY skews it. Now don't go blaming the judge - they are human too. I am a BIG believer in a crappy spouse is not necessarily a crappy parent. And as a father myself, it hits a nerve when I see (read really) a father wants access to his kids. There is NO reason he shouldn't get 50-50 custody. None.

 

The worry is...its an excuse to stay M. Don't say trapped or bullied or whatever - its his CHOICE. Its hard for me to swallow that he had no idea that D meant "losing" his kids for 50%. This isn't to say I don't get it...believe me I do. I left anyway for my reasons - namely I wanted to be happy. I also don't put up with much bullshyte - but that may come through in my posts - so no way was I staying with the now xWW.

 

Oh and, I am entirely financial stable on my own. I could easily support him (and his family) in my own with little difficulty. So the amount he takes home is not a primary consideration for me in choosing him.

 

So this comes down to custody issues.

Cabin, again, not buying he didn't realize it - and I know you mean from an emotional perspective. Maybe he should seek an IC to help. I did. Was crucial for me. He turned out to be right. My kids, 3 years on, are fine. And I adjusted to the new normal.

 

Either way, like my first post (or was it second) post...its about HIS choice and the price HE pays.

 

What happens if he decides to stay?

 

And I hope I've been very clear in my responses: his concern revolve around the children and the harm that would be inflicted on them in a mean custody battle. He is leaving her every single item they own, plus their home, and just wants his relationship with his children to remain in tact.

 

We get it.

The thing is...NO ONE can control HER actions. NO ONE.

If she wants to launch a nasty custody fight NOTHING to stop her. I would encourage BOTH parties to seek IC...a family therapist to explain the cons of nasty custody fights.

 

And guess what. Even if she CHOOSES that, the kids WILL heal - given the proper environment. The proper therapy.

 

There is ZERO chance of the kids coming out unhurt in even the best case. Zero. All you can do is minimize it, face it and help them overcome. That's it.

D isn't some life scarring never-healing tragedy which dooms kids to a life of misery, sorrow and what-ifs. That's crappy Hallmark movie BS. When I did IC, which was a few years back, my IC said there was NO clinical evidence that children of D fare any worse than children whose parents stayed together. Children need involved parents not married ones.

 

Its why I believe, powerfully, that staying for the kids is an excuse. I live it every freakin' day.

 

His kids will be fine EVEN IF the W goes all nasty on him.

[PhoenixRise]

50% division of the matrimonial home and assets is the rule here too, but NOT 50% of a spouse's gross pay. More than likely, she will not be entitled to spousal support, despite her push for the maximum.

 

Infidelity is not factored into rulings about child support/spousal support where I live.

 

Oh and, I am entirely financial stable on my own. I could easily support him (and his family) in my own with little difficulty. So the amount he takes home is not a primary consideration for me in choosing him.

 

And I hope I've been very clear in my responses: his concern revolve around the children and the harm that would be inflicted on them in a mean custody battle. He is leaving her every single item they own, plus their home, and just wants his relationship with his children to remain in tact.

 

 

Then in spite of all his and your planning and efforts to manage the exit He has been very unrealistic.

 

It is unrealistic to think he can divorce his wife, move out of the house and his relationship with the children will just rock along unscathed. It doesn't mean that any damage to their relationship would be permanent. Hopefully the kids adjust and things get better.

 

Maybe as part of his exit management he should consult a child therapist who specializes in children affected by divorce to get professional advice regarding his relationship with the children.

 

Regarding the the 2x a month visitation; If the children are still school aged every other weekend visitation is pretty normal. It serves to minimize the disruption to the kids lives. Does MM intend to live in the kids school district so that he can spend more time with them without interfering in their education? IF so he should inform his lawyer so that he can ask for more time in his counter offer.

 

Regarding the money; Apparently the wife has gotten herself a really great lawyer who is doing his/her job. The lawyer SHOULD be asking for the moon and doing everything in his/her power to get his client the best possible deal. Your AP's lawyer should be doing the same. Your exit management plan did include a retaining a lawyer right?

 

IF your MM wants to divorce, he can have his lawyer make a counter offer to his wife and they will either meet somewhere in the middle or a judge will decide.

 

Regarding the wife possibly turning the children against MM; Based on you posting that she is a good mom, I don't think she will do this. However I don't think she is under any obligation to lie to anyone about her husband's actions. If the children are old enough to ask questions and they want to know why their family is splitting up she should NOT have to pretend that the split is mutual when the split is actually his choice. She doesn't have to go into any gory details (really she doesn't know any gory details because you two have been managing to keep her in the dark) but she shouldn't have to lie to protect him.

[woinlove]

 

And I hope I've been very clear in my responses: his concern revolve around the children and the harm that would be inflicted on them in a mean custody battle. He is leaving her every single item they own, plus their home, and just wants his relationship with his children to remain in tact.

 

One has to admit this father has been making extremely poor choices, choosing to become involved in a secret affair, bringing a lot of deception and betrayal into the family home and openly making a fool of the mother of his children, a woman you described a few months ago as a wonderful mother. Probably this man needs some time to detox and get in touch with the part of him that is capable of thinking straight about how to treat a family. There are worse things than leaving the children in the hands of a wonderful mother for a few months and I'd encourage you to encourage MM to consider it, while he screws his head on straight and figures out if he wants to become the type of person who treats his family with honesty and respect or not.

[MissBee]

Then in spite of all his and your planning and efforts to manage the exit He has been very unrealistic.

 

It is unrealistic to think he can divorce his wife, move out of the house and his relationship with the children will just rock along unscathed. It doesn't mean that any damage to their relationship would be permanent. Hopefully the kids adjust and things get better.

 

Maybe as part of his exit management he should consult a child therapist who specializes in children affected by divorce to get professional advice regarding his relationship with the children.

 

Regarding the the 2x a month visitation; If the children are still school aged every other weekend visitation is pretty normal. It serves to minimize the disruption to the kids lives. Does MM intend to live in the kids school district so that he can spend more time with them without interfering in their education? IF so he should inform his lawyer so that he can ask for more time in his counter offer.

 

Regarding the money; Apparently the wife has gotten herself a really great lawyer who is doing his/her job. The lawyer SHOULD be asking for the moon and doing everything in his/her power to get his client the best possible deal. Your AP's lawyer should be doing the same. Your exit management plan did include a retaining a lawyer right?

 

IF your MM wants to divorce, he can have his lawyer make a counter offer to his wife and they will either meet somewhere in the middle or a judge will decide.

 

Regarding the wife possibly turning the children against MM; Based on you posting that she is a good mom, I don't think she will do this. However I don't think she is under any obligation to lie to anyone about her husband's actions. If the children are old enough to ask questions and they want to know why their family is splitting up she should NOT have to pretend that the split is mutual when the split is actually his choice. She doesn't have to go into any gory details (really she doesn't know any gory details because you two have been managing to keep her in the dark) but she shouldn't have to lie to protect him.

 

Greta post with some sensible and practical advice!

[2sunny]

There are plenty of people in the country and the world who have no money and are very happy.

QUOTE]

 

Do you know any?

 

I work with families who cannot afford to buy bread, or lightbulbs, or heat their homes. That isn't happiness.

 

It's ludicrous to suggest that people who cannot afford the bare necessecities - needs! - of life are happy.

 

yes - i know some people like that. in fact - i was raised that way. we were always happy! we didn't see it as a struggle at all.

 

happiness comes from WITHIN Cabin - it has very little to do with money!

 

and i definitely don't think it's ludicrous. i was the MOST unhappy in my life when i was married and had no money worries.