Thoughts on MM who get stuck

[Silly_Girl]

Thought I'd share some developments:

 

-AP and W had their mediation appointment

-mediator agrees that terms of her separation agreement are unfair and would not be supported by law

-W has told him she needs the week to decide what she is going to do with respect to letting him stay in the house until arrangements are finalized or asking him to leave

-they are meeting again next week to negotiate a custody rotation that will suit both of them

-mediator cautioned her use of the children against him, despite the raw pain the W is in

-he's got a meeting with a lawyer booked

-I'm making a transition be move out of our share workplace

 

So, we'll see...

 

His stuff seems good. Glad you're sorting your move though. I feel whatever happens that's definitely something in your best interests.

 

Hope all goes well

[2sunny]

he's not "stuck" he's making a conscious choice to put himself at the mercy of his wife's wishes.

 

everything Cabin has written states that her MM is a sitting duck - waiting for his wife to either DO something- or NOT DO SOMETHING.

 

she COULD be waiting forever - especially since all of this is based on lies and deception for both marriages.

 

IF you end up with him - you SHOULD expect more lies and deception from your MM - and he can expect that from you as well.

 

IF you all got honest - some things might change - AND become more real. and you MAY actually THEN have a chance at an honest relationship and future = until then, all you have is a sneaky A based on lies.

[2sunny]

Sounds promising thus far...

 

i don't see one thing that's "promising" so far.

 

what are you seeing that looks honest?

[wannabdone]

Thought I'd share some developments:

 

-AP and W had their mediation appointment

-mediator agrees that terms of her separation agreement are unfair and would not be supported by law

-W has told him she needs the week to decide what she is going to do with respect to letting him stay in the house until arrangements are finalized or asking him to leave

-they are meeting again next week to negotiate a custody rotation that will suit both of them

-mediator cautioned her use of the children against him, despite the raw pain the W is in

-he's got a meeting with a lawyer booked

-I'm making a transition be move out of our share workplace

 

So, we'll see...

 

 

I sincerely hope that things work out as you want. I really do. Just remember the old saying.... "it isn't over till the fat lady sings" And she hasn't sung yet. So guard yourself. Let us know the updates as they come!!

[26pointblue]

Thought I'd share some developments:

 

-AP and W had their mediation appointment

-mediator agrees that terms of her separation agreement are unfair and would not be supported by law

-W has told him she needs the week to decide what she is going to do with respect to letting him stay in the house until arrangements are finalized or asking him to leave

-they are meeting again next week to negotiate a custody rotation that will suit both of them

-mediator cautioned her use of the children against him, despite the raw pain the W is in

-he's got a meeting with a lawyer booked

-I'm making a transition be move out of our share workplace

 

So, we'll see...

 

What a complete mess. So he's just sitting there waiting for her to decide what to do . . . your love interest is giving all his power to his wife, & by going along with it you're giving all your power to his wife & letting her control your relationship with your love interest. Ugh. I don't see how this can turn out well at all. And I have lost any amount of empathy I had for you, knowing it probably wouldn't work. Because you want it to 'work' at any cost, even this really crappy way that is disrespectful to yourself & his wife, so in my opinion there is nothing to be empathetic about.

 

If it does 'work', you'll know he's with you because his wife cut him loose, & you were his default option. And you'll have to live with yourself knowing you executed this plan behind her back & that both you & your man are cheats & totally okay with deceiving the people you promised to love & protect. I suppose you will have no problem living with yourself knowing this, but you'll also have to live with the fact that the man who was too cowardly to just tell his wife the truth & set her free could do the same thing to you . . . meet a new woman & tell her, as long as Cabin lets me go without it upsetting my life too much, I'll be with you, while not telling you this. What a horrible way to treat both women . . . yet you seem to be okay with letting yourself be treated like this, participating in it, & doing the same thing to your husband. So I guess you guys deserve each other & will probably show each other the same treatment you so easily dish out to others. Good luck with that.

[NoIDidn't]

Thought I'd share some developments:

 

-AP and W had their mediation appointment

-mediator agrees that terms of her separation agreement are unfair and would not be supported by law

-W has told him she needs the week to decide what she is going to do with respect to letting him stay in the house until arrangements are finalized or asking him to leave

-they are meeting again next week to negotiate a custody rotation that will suit both of them

-mediator cautioned her use of the children against him, despite the raw pain the W is in

-he's got a meeting with a lawyer booked

-I'm making a transition be move out of our share workplace

 

So, we'll see...

 

Interesting. Only a meeting with a lawyer booked. Wife supposedly being chided by the mediator. I fail to see how that would be helpful unless the mediator also chided him for something and he simply neglected to tell you that.

 

Not that I am wishing the worst for you, but I certainly hope this woman finds out about the affair and is finally able to make things fair for herself. The mediator would be singing a different tune if they knew about the affair as well.

 

Totally OT, but its so odd to see a legitimate and legal couple referred to as "AP and W".

[Silly_Girl]

Interesting. Only a meeting with a lawyer booked. Wife supposedly being chided by the mediator. I fail to see how that would be helpful unless the mediator also chided him for something and he simply neglected to tell you that.

 

Chided? Where?

[jwi71]

-AP and W had their mediation appointment

 

At least they made it...you'd be surprised how many don't.

 

-mediator agrees that terms of her separation agreement are unfair and would not be supported by law

 

I gotta call bullshyte on this.

And I mean the part where you were told that the mediator said it was unfair and would not be supported by law. I have NEVER heard of a judge who over-ruled what two parties had agreed to - fair or not. For those in doubt, witness the NFL players deal (unfair to them) and even better, witness what the NBA owners are going to do to their players (bass brape but drop those b's) in their negotiations. Two...and perhaps more importantly...why was the mediator TAKING SIDES? Fair is a subjective term and its definition largely depends on who is speaking...your MM thought it was unfair (as do I honestly) but clearly his W thinks otherwise. So for the mediator to claim her offer is unfair and ergo illegal is baloney - he can only assert this if he is siding with the MM. And in Texas anyways, licensed mediators have a duty to remain impartial.

 

I personally think we have at best some embellishment. At worst, he is setting you up for his leaving "because of his mean, unreasonable W".

 

I would so hire a lawyer...my advice to you and your MM. Having a lawyer does NOT mean the D is a war...mine went mostly smoothly.

 

-W has told him she needs the week to decide what she is going to do with respect to letting him stay in the house until arrangements are finalized or asking him to leave

 

Why doesn't he move out?

 

-they are meeting again next week to negotiate a custody rotation that will suit both of them

 

Wait, they discussed money this time? They will discuss kids next time?

Seems backwards given he is most worried about the kids. Just an observation.

 

-mediator cautioned her use of the children against him, despite the raw pain the W is in

 

Fishy again. I'm willing to bet a good mediator warns both parties. But this could be simply editing to make him seem like the good guy and the W as the bad guy...er girl. Pointless really...makes me wonder why he does it?

 

-he's got a meeting with a lawyer booked

 

Good. NEVER go to court or enter contract negotiations without trained, experienced and competent lawyers on YOUR side. You should consider this too.

 

-I'm making a transition be move out of our share workplace

 

Why?

 

Just some random knee-jerk thoughts...

[2sunny]

like energy attracts - or so they say - so it may be useful that you two let your respective spouses go - and them be together... but we have evidence that this R you two have built together - and behind everyone else's backs IS based upon a foundation of dishonesty... in actions and words... tragic really.

[Cabin]

I have NEVER heard of a judge who over-ruled what two parties had agreed to - fair or not.

 

Two...and perhaps more importantly...why was the mediator TAKING SIDES? Fair is a subjective term and its definition largely depends on who is speaking...

 

Why doesn't he move out?

 

Wait, they discussed money this time? They will discuss kids next time?

Seems backwards given he is most worried about the kids. Just an observation.

 

Why (leave your workplace)?

 

 

In order...

 

... no judge will overrule a separation AGREEMENT, but in their case, she has just written up one for the two of them and he has not signed nor doe she agree.

 

The mediator isn't taking sides, just pointing out the clear legal guidelines that govern child and spousal support as well as custody and access. Her terms don't align with the guidelines.

 

He's not moving out until they have a legal separation agreement signed. He wants to protect his right to his children.

 

They discussed money first because it was the first item on her "separation agreement" and they ran out of time. They meet again to discuss custody.

 

I'm leaving my workplace to create distance between us at work. It's better for us professionally and personally if we have distance as we are both separating from our spouses. I was lucky to have a special opportunity land in my lap a few days ago that will take me off-site and into a different position.

[Cabin]

The mediator would be singing a different tune if they knew about the affair as well.

 

Totally OT, but its so odd to see a legitimate and legal couple referred to as "AP and W".

 

By law, the objectives and guidelines that govern divorce here cannot take in consideration infidelity. Infidelity doesn't change how much child support or spousal support one pays.

 

I refer to my AP as such because he isn't MY MM, and so he is my AP, and his W is his W. Makes sense?

[NoIDidn't]

In order...

 

... no judge will overrule a separation AGREEMENT, but in their case, she has just written up one for the two of them and he has not signed nor doe she agree.

 

The mediator isn't taking sides, just pointing out the clear legal guidelines that govern child and spousal support as well as custody and access. Her terms don't align with the guidelines.

 

He's not moving out until they have a legal separation agreement signed. He wants to protect his right to his children.

 

They discussed money first because it was the first item on her "separation agreement" and they ran out of time. They meet again to discuss custody.

 

I'm leaving my workplace to create distance between us at work. It's better for us professionally and personally if we have distance as we are both separating from our spouses. I was lucky to have a special opportunity land in my lap a few days ago that will take me off-site and into a different position.

 

Per the bolded:

 

I think, and agree with what I think, jwi's point is that if they agreed on it, no judge would object since the parties are in agreement.

 

It doesn't matter if her requests go against the guidelines. Do you know how many people who are just dying to get out of a marriage will agree to whatever just to get out of it?

 

I think your MM is giving you his spin on what was said, not what was actually said. Which brings me to my biggest point: stay out of their divorce. Its not your business and only will serve to push his emotions on you and give you his outrage instead of him carrying his own sh**.

 

Its just so interesting that what was reported to you paints him as an angel that's getting divorced from a shrew that's only trying to take him for all he's worth.

[NoIDidn't]

By law, the objectives and guidelines that govern divorce here cannot take in consideration infidelity. Infidelity doesn't change how much child support or spousal support one pays.

 

I refer to my AP as such because he isn't MY MM, and so he is my AP, and his W is his W. Makes sense?

 

I understood why you did it, it's just odd to see from my position. And you didn't say "My AP", it was just "AP & W".

 

It was an observation that I didn't want to go into too deeply.

[xxoo]

I think the mediator is saying that, in the absence of an agreement, her conditions wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell in court.....so maybe she should bend a bit and try to come to a true agreement.

 

This all sounds like decent progress, Cabin. Turns out he's not so stuck it seems! Which is why people get frustrated with the "stuck" excuse, because it is often not the full story.

[FieldFlower]

He hasn't filed for D for the same reason I haven't: we want to execute our affairs thoughtfully and with as little drama as possible.

 

My H and I just finished our separation agreement recently and will be filing for D shortly (though we will wait a year since we are not using infidelity as a reason for D).

 

We are not using lawyers, as I have stated in the past.

 

My AP is going to be examining the separation agreement his W produced with their mediator tomorrow. He fully expects her to kick him out of the house after their meeting, and so he has made living arrangements in case.

 

He has told all of his friends, and many of his family, that he intends to divorce. Two of his friends have referred him to their lawyers, so he is going to follow up with one of them in the coming weeks.

 

One of his friends -- a mutual friend of mine -- said that in his humble opinion, he thinks that marriage has about a 1% chance of survival over the next year or two...

 

So we shall see...

 

In the meantime, I am on the sidelines. Not waiting for him, though. Once my D is finalized I will probably begin dating and my AP is sufficiently worried that if he's not free when I'm ready to date, that I'll move on. If that sounds like a game, it isn't. I just told him I'm not going to wait indefinitely for him to make his decisions. And he has respect for that of course.

 

sigh...Cabin, I've read this entire thread, and I can't for the life of me understand WHY your MM would tell his W, that he NEVER loved her over all these years, despite having multiple children. Come on Cabin, really think long and hard about that statement, and how utterly DEVESTATING it must have been for her to swallow that. Her whole life, and world has been a lie, or so MM says, but really that is a crock of ****. It's an excuse to make the split more palatable for the one wanting out. He DID love her, and unfortunately, for whatever reason he fell out of love, and rather then end or work on their marriage then, he cheated...with you. Which is the cowards way out.

 

I would have preferred being slapped in the face, and being cheated on, as opposed to being told that I was never loved. How heartbreaking, for her. All of the things she did, or planned, were in vain. Do you not see how effed up MM is by telling her that? Can you not understand WHY she is in a state of rage? He is telling her that her whole existance is built on a LIE. I would take every item I could find within my reach and try to knock his friggin teeth out. Beyond cruel

 

So, if he really wants out, then tell him to STOP making it worse for HER so that it's easier for him. She knows him better then you, and he knows her better then anyone else, and frankly if he was honest with her, saying that he fell out of love, and show some friggin humility and empathy, she might/may have been willing to let go without the threats, and hostility. You can't tell me that all those years, holidays, vactions, pregnancies, births, birthdays, anniversary's, celebrations, talks, sex, and every other thing that happened in their marriage and life, happened without any form of LOVE on his part? He is asking her to accept that she has lived a lie, and basically used by the very man she loved. Bull****. Tell him to grow some nads and own up to the fact that he fell out of love with her, and don't let this jackass hurt her like that, IMHO, that is just plain sick, and worse then the A itself.

 

Would YOU not be pissed? Would you not be hurt, and come out with guns a blazin? He wants to "preserve" his relationship with his children, all the while telling her that when she conceived them, he didn't love her? Heartless.

 

He is the one that has made this mess what it is, and the sooner he comes clean and gets honest, the better. Then again, he has already set the precedence, so all bets are off.

 

My MC always told me that it's not a divorce that screws kids up, it's how parents behave through it. It's the truth, and maybe your MM needs to figure out how to keep his porch clean, before telling his wife how to clean hers.

Good luck, I really hope you don't take this as being harsh, it is not intended as that, and I hope things work out for all involved, but to be honest, I think you really need to put your MM under the microscope, it might be the only chance you get to really see him in action when it comes to problems and conflict. He has taken a very painful situation, and made it a living HELL, for no other reason then him having an "excuse" to justify his actions. There is no shame in being honest, sometimes things just don't work out, it happens, sometimes to the best of people, and it sucks, and it hurts, but you have to be honest, and remember that the person you are leaving, was someone you once LOVED and at for God's sake show some empathy and compassion. Those kids will hate him for unneccisarily hurting THEIR mother, not because it didn't work out. Do you see what I mean by this?

 

As you know two wrongs will never equal a right, but at the same time he keeps making more wrongs, and expecting it to turn out right. He has got to get HONEST, if he ever plans on having a semi-functional relationship with her, which is a MUST if he wants to keep his relationships with his children in tact, and effectively co-parent post divorce. This is just bass ackwards.

 

Good luck again

[jwi71]

... no judge will overrule a separation AGREEMENT, but in their case, she has just written up one for the two of them and he has not signed nor doe she agree.

 

No problems...and this was part of one of my first replies to you on this thread...her offer is NOT ridiculous - its just her offer. And I can't think of ANY judge who would overrule two consenting parties in a contract agreement. Thats my only point - her offer is neither unfair nor illegal in the eyes of the law - its just her offer. Your MM doesn't sound like he is willing to accept it (and he'd be an idiot to accept it) so this horse is officially dead.

 

The mediator isn't taking sides, just pointing out the clear legal guidelines that govern child and spousal support as well as custody and access. Her terms don't align with the guidelines.

 

So what? Really...its a guideline.

Real life example from MY D.

I had eaten a 90k pay cut (yup, 90K US in salary - yeah, ouch) when we were drafting our D. Per Texas law, I was due spousal support AND CS. My lawyer said it was easy slam dunk...I asked and judge would grant as Texas law has a formula they use to determine both (and other details omitted). I declined, my money situation was temporary and it wasn't necessary. At the prove up, the judge asked if I was that I was not seeking any support from stbxw. I said yes, he said ok and that was that. Guidelines are just that...guidelines.

 

A D is simply a contract. It can say whatever the hell the parties wish.

 

He's not moving out until they have a legal separation agreement signed. He wants to protect his right to his children.

 

You're going to have to help me here.

How does moving out DURING THEIR DIVORCE jeopardize his rights to his children? You guys may be thinking of abandonment in terms of family law. If so, this is where talking to a lawyer really helps. Typically, for that to be an issue, it requires months of no contact towards his then W and kids to trigger this. Again, hire a lawyer and get legal advice...but I can't see how this is an issue DURING D. Judges aren't stupid and one would figure out that he didn't abandon his kids...especially when your MM shows phone records of him calling the kids. Not to mention having the kids themselves testify they have regular contact with dad. Not tracking this at all.

 

They discussed money first because it was the first item on her "separation agreement" and they ran out of time. They meet again to discuss custody.

 

I can see this. But isn't it odd that the kids and custody got backburnered? I mean nary a word except an admonishment towards his stbxw? Given how he paints himself, it strikes me as SO odd that these kids went unmentioned (figuratively speaking).

 

Something still smells off to me. Can't quite put my finger on it...

[2sunny]

looks like your MM is telling you HIS version of the way things went... his perspective - and what he HEARD them say - doesn't necessarily mean that is what actually happened - it's just his scewed version of what he thinks he heard.

 

he CAN tell you anything he thinks YOU need to hear.

 

from this vantage point... it appears that his version is designed to create a stall tactic.

 

he COULD move out anyway - but he didn't.

 

he COULD wait to date you until after he divorced - but he didn't.

 

he COULD file DIVORCE papers but he didn't - in fact he waited until he made his wife miserable enough that SHE took action (action HE should be taking IF he intended to be divorced) - then waiting around for her "separation agreement" to look satisfactory for HIM = it will never be satisfactory for him - he should have been the one to file for what HE intends to achieve = divorce - but he didn't. looks like a cowards way out to me.

 

he doesn't seem to be a man that takes action on what he INTENDS to DO. even IF you end up with him - know that this IS the core - the center - of his method of operating. he may want something - but he's not going to take action - he's just going to stand around and make sure everyone he loves gets damn miserable so he can blame them for what he has NO COURAGE to DO himself.

 

this is a man that shows no honor to himself - to you - or to his vows - or to his wife and family. i can't imagine how you could possibly love those qualities in any man. it's disgusting how much he will lie in order to save face. he will need to look himself in the mirror... i pity him - and you for wanting to love him.

[wannabdone]

looks like your MM is telling you HIS version of the way things went... his perspective - and what he HEARD them say - doesn't necessarily mean that is what actually happened - it's just his scewed version of what he thinks he heard.

 

he CAN tell you anything he thinks YOU need to hear.

 

from this vantage point... it appears that his version is designed to create a stall tactic.

 

he COULD move out anyway - but he didn't.

 

he COULD wait to date you until after he divorced - but he didn't.

 

he COULD file DIVORCE papers but he didn't - in fact he waited until he made his wife miserable enough that SHE took action (action HE should be taking IF he intended to be divorced) - then waiting around for her "separation agreement" to look satisfactory for HIM = it will never be satisfactory for him - he should have been the one to file for what HE intends to achieve = divorce - but he didn't. looks like a cowards way out to me.

 

he doesn't seem to be a man that takes action on what he INTENDS to DO. even IF you end up with him - know that this IS the core - the center - of his method of operating. he may want something - but he's not going to take action - he's just going to stand around and make sure everyone he loves gets damn miserable so he can blame them for what he has NO COURAGE to DO himself.

 

this is a man that shows no honor to himself - to you - or to his vows - or to his wife and family. i can't imagine how you could possibly love those qualities in any man. it's disgusting how much he will lie in order to save face. he will need to look himself in the mirror... i pity him - and you for wanting to love him.

 

 

Here lies one of the many contributing factors to why these damn R don't usually work. How fesible is it to really know what you are getting into when his entire world is shut off to you (OW). All you have is his word, and the very fact that he is cheating on his W, so we can all assume that his word probably isn't that meaningful.

[Cabin]

How fesible is it to really know what you are getting into when his entire world is shut off to you (OW).

 

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this, but that is not how I would define my R with my AP. There is quite a bit of transparency between us, and no one needs to point out how unfair it is that that isn't the case between him and his W. I already know that is unfair.

 

Quick update: She's asked him to be out of the house this weekend.

[bentnotbroken]

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this, but that is not how I would define my R with my AP. There is quite a bit of transparency between us, and no one needs to point out how unfair it is that that isn't the case between him and his W. I already know that is unfair.

 

Quick update: She's asked him to be out of the house this weekend.

 

 

Good for her. :bunny::bunny:Hope she doesn't go back. She needs to be done with him and move on to someone worth her time.

[2sunny]

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this, but that is not how I would define my R with my AP. There is quite a bit of transparency between us, and no one needs to point out how unfair it is that that isn't the case between him and his W. I already know that is unfair.

 

Quick update: She's asked him to be out of the house this weekend.

 

she's calling all the shots... notice how HE wasn't the one taking action by making a decision HIMSELF - then DOING things to make sure he shows action that indicates to EVERYONE that HE INTENDS to leave her?

 

the way he's handling this makes him look very deceitful and a big wussy - a wussy that waits around for others to decide what his path is going to be - so he can blame THEM in the end.

 

narcissistic - passive/aggressive azzhat at best! why would you want a man(?) with those character flaws?

[jwi71]

she's calling all the shots... notice how HE wasn't the one taking action by making a decision HIMSELF - then DOING things to make sure he shows action that indicates to EVERYONE that HE INTENDS to leave her?

 

the way he's handling this makes him look very deceitful and a big wussy - a wussy that waits around for others to decide what his path is going to be - so he can blame THEM in the end.

 

narcissistic - passive/aggressive azzhat at best! why would you want a man(?) with those character flaws?

 

Yup, I agree.

 

He's just very inconsistent. He wants out but won't 1) file for D and/or 2) actually move out. Words and actions...always trust the actions.

 

All this time with his "Managed exit"...it got him what? Oh yeah, served and thrown out. You know, I gotta admit I like the cut of her giblets. Always painted as "dumpy, anti-social, and generally a lower life form" and she goes and actually does the one thing her over-achieving H cannot...file and throw him out. Love the irony.

 

And for a man SO worried about his kids...now what? Did he never figure his W might have had enough and throw him out? Was this never a thought? Or was it his plan? If it was his plan, how does one reconcile getting thrown out with "not hurting the kids" - who are most assuredly hurting now. And I have to wonder what his W told them as to why she asked him to leave. Given all this...how did he protect his kids? He didn't. The one factor overlooked was...his W might act. He might hem and haw about not hurting his kids and his trying to arrange things...but all it takes is his W serving him and kicking him out. Which is what happened.

 

A managed exit is baloney. The other party can screw it all up by taking action. And they frequently do.

 

Please be careful...it has never sounded like he was acting to move out. Just talk. And because of that, he may NOT want to D his W. His actions don't support it. Step back. Way back. He has much to process and in this, its all too easy for YOU to take the blame.

 

My advice...be very LC. I would say NC but you won't. Don't initiate contact and meet only infrequently. Stay out of his D.

 

I read a stat somewhere (yeah I know, the vague stat someone read somewhere over the internet even - a little leeway here ok ): most people who D during an affair regret it. Now the stat had an actually percentage which I forget...but it was definitely more than 50%.

 

I know you haven't filed. I'm not even sure if your MM has been served a D or if its just legal separation (why not get a D if that's the case). Maybe...get some IC to help you navigate this emotional hurricane.

 

Have YOU filed for D yet?

[woinlove]

Quick update: She's asked him to be out of the house this weekend.

 

Now, that sounds like a very positive development! From what you have posted, this man does not sound like a great partner and his W doesn't deserve the poor treatment she has been receiving from him. So her asking him to leave sounds positive.

 

Also, you clearly want this man in your life, so that is another positive for him leaving as it will make you happier. I hope it works out for everyone and that all the deception to his wife and family ends very soon.

[MissBee]

 

All this time with his "Managed exit"...it got him what? Oh yeah, served and thrown out. The one factor overlooked was...his W might act. He might hem and haw about not hurting his kids and his trying to arrange things...but all it takes is his W serving him and kicking him out. Which is what happened.

 

A managed exit is baloney. The other party can screw it all up by taking action. And they frequently do.

 

 

I have to agree...

 

I just don't think a managed exit (and by that I mean, secretly planning for an extended period how to get out of your marriage without ever even alerting your partner [without the use of sublimal clues]you want out) is a good idea. I expect no one to decide out of the blue to divorce and then tell the spouse a minute or two after the thought, but if one's marriage is to the point where one wants to dissolve it, it had to have lead up to that point, and I think discussions should have been taking place anyway, if it's like that....but nevertheless, once you've had an OW and all this and decide yes, you are leaving, you should probably get your wits about you and then manage this dissolution with the party you're breaking away from. Planning your life and future when you know their reaction, thoughts and feelings and can actually "manage" what you're trying to manage based on real life and not imagined scenarios seems to make more sense than planning around hypothetical scenarios.

 

But then again, I imagine most affairs aren't built on the superb communication of the AP with the BS. Although atleast one poster claims all the married people she knows, who have affairs, go to counseling before their affairs ensue.... I can imagine that most do not and therefore managing and all this other stuff go into the pile of poor ways of dealing with things and a lack of effective communication. And if you've had marriage counseling but are still married and still decided to get into an affair...I'm not sure how that helped you....what did it help you do? Nothing it seems, so might as well not admit you have had counseling as you don't seem to be any better off than a MP who has never received marital counseling.

Edited September 17, 2011 by MissBee