Thoughts on MM who get stuck

[wannabdone]

 

yes - i know some people like that. in fact - i was raised that way. we were always happy! we didn't see it as a struggle at all.

 

happiness comes from WITHIN Cabin - it has very little to do with money!

 

and i definitely don't think it's ludicrous. i was the MOST unhappy in my life when i was married and had no money worries.

 

 

I agree!!! You know what though... Looking back on my A, I realize and I hate to admit it, how much of my xMM's attitudes and idea's I picked up on. He would always act like $ wasn't everything to him, but when it came down to the "nut cuttin" for a lack of better words, it sure was everything then. I think a lot of times its drilled into our minds so much that we almost start or not almost... we do start pcking up and saying and believing the line of bs these "men" say.

I was more happy when I was just sitting in a car with him, not spending a $, than being at the nicest restraunt in the city. When your miserable, your miserable, no matter what your bank account holds.

[Lostinlife4now]

 

yes - i know some people like that. in fact - i was raised that way. we were always happy! we didn't see it as a struggle at all.

 

happiness comes from WITHIN Cabin - it has very little to do with money!

 

and i definitely don't think it's ludicrous. i was the MOST unhappy in my life when i was married and had no money worries.

 

Thanks Cabin!

 

I don't have a lot of money but you know what "I AM HAPPY". I had a good amount of money, and a lousy marriage, and I was very UNHAPPY!

 

So no, money doesn't mean anything if we are not happy on the inside.:)

[26pointblue]

There are plenty of people in the country and the world who have no money and are very happy.

QUOTE]

 

Do you know any?

 

I work with families who cannot afford to buy bread, or lightbulbs, or heat their homes. That isn't happiness.

 

It's ludicrous to suggest that people who cannot afford the bare necessecities - needs! - of life are happy.

 

Yes, I know plenty of people in the country & the world who have no money & are very happy. [Was that a serious question???? Really?] I have traveled all over the world & lived in poverty. I didn't come from much money myself, but nothing compared to what poor people in other countries, as well as people raised poorer than myself in my country [the US] have experienced. I've found that often the people who have the least financial means are the same ones who are the happiest spiritually/emotionally. Maybe this is why monks give up everything & go live in the mountains, I don't know. I just can't believe you don't think that people without money can't be happy! What a strange thought.

Edited September 7, 2011 by 26pointblue

[wannabdone]

 

Yes, I know plenty of people in the country & the world who have no money & are very happy. [Was that a serious question???? Really?] I have traveled all over the world & lived in poverty. I didn't come from much money myself, but nothing compared to what poor people in other countries, as well as people raised poorer than myself in my country [the US] have experienced. I've found that often the people who have the least financial means are the same ones who are the happiest spiritually/emotionally. Maybe this is why monks give up everything & go live in the mountains, I don't know. I just can't believe you don't think that people without money can't be happy! What a strange thought.

 

I see what both of you are saying. Can you live in a box, with out anything material and be happy? Absolutely. But, I think it goes with out saying that if you have children and I you can not afford to feed them, or keep them warm, you can't be truly happy. Happy you have your children and if they have good health, happy for that? YES. But, I as a mother if I could not afford lights in my home, or heat for my child to be warm, or food for him to eat.... I would be living one miserable existence.

 

Again, I think its like everything else, not b/w. It varies by really who else is affected by the poverty, outside of just you.

[26pointblue]

 

I see what both of you are saying. Can you live in a box, with out anything material and be happy? Absolutely. But, I think it goes with out saying that if you have children and I you can not afford to feed them, or keep them warm, you can't be truly happy. Happy you have your children and if they have good health, happy for that? YES. But, I as a mother if I could not afford lights in my home, or heat for my child to be warm, or food for him to eat.... I would be living one miserable existence.

 

Again, I think its like everything else, not b/w. It varies by really who else is affected by the poverty, outside of just you.

 

I just think this discussion is completely irrelevant because no one, including Cabin, is saying her MM is going to be unable to feed his kids. [in some countries most people don't even have electricity, & they can still be happy.] She was basically saying that he needs money/financial comforts to be happy . . . which is quite a different standard than not being able to afford to take care of his kids. Again it quite simply comes down to, if he wants to be with Cabin, he needs to hire a lawyer & get out of his marriage. Everything else is a red herring, so that Cabin doesn't have to focus on that one simple truth.

[xxoo]

I just think this discussion is completely irrelevant because no one, including Cabin, is saying her MM is going to be unable to feed his kids. [in some countries most people don't even have electricity, & they can still be happy.] She was basically saying that he needs money/financial comforts to be happy . . . which is quite a different standard than not being able to afford to take care of his kids. Again it quite simply comes down to, if he wants to be with Cabin, he needs to hire a lawyer & get out of his marriage. Everything else is a red herring, so that Cabin doesn't have to focus on that one simple truth.

 

Exactly, it is a red herring because the typical MM is not at any risk of starving.

 

He's at risk of moving his kids into a 2 bedroom apt, and driving an older model car. BTDT, happily

[pureinheart]

Actually, that is the job of a judge who sits in family court. How do you know what a judge/judges feel? Care to share a link where it shows what you stated?

 

And FYI- just because she wrote up something doesn't mean it is going to be submitted in court!

 

It's common sense...can you share a link to support that I am wrong?

[donnamaybe]

It's common sense...can you share a link to support that I am wrong?

How does one find a link to something that a judge DIDN'T say?

[2sunny]

Exactly, it is a red herring because the typical MM is not at any risk of starving.

 

He's at risk of moving his kids into a 2 bedroom apt, and driving an older model car. BTDT, happily

 

he may or may not leave her... that will play out. but now you, Cabin, offering him money to be sure he will be happy - is backwards! the money (or even lack or money) cannot relieve any guilt and or shame that his head may or may not need to process if and when they divorce.

 

money can't fix what the head thinks!

 

HE will have those feelings whether or not you throw your money his way... but i can guarantee you this - it's not a GUARANTEE he will be happy!

 

he will find happiness within! here's a hint = he is less likely to be happy when he's participating in lies and cover up!

 

so, you see? you are helping to sabotage his happiness by participating in his lie. care to step away until HE is divorced? as in past tense? that's the best way to find out what HIS intentions REALLY are - without participating in more lies... otherwise you are feeding and growing negative energy bigger by staying at this juncture...

[MissBee]

 

I just think this discussion is completely irrelevant because no one, including Cabin, is saying her MM is going to be unable to feed his kids. [in some countries most people don't even have electricity, & they can still be happy.] She was basically saying that he needs money/financial comforts to be happy . . . which is quite a different standard than not being able to afford to take care of his kids. Again it quite simply comes down to, if he wants to be with Cabin, he needs to hire a lawyer & get out of his marriage. Everything else is a red herring, so that Cabin doesn't have to focus on that one simple truth.

 

!!!!

[bentnotbroken]

How does one find a link to something that a judge DIDN'T say?

 

 

Good question?

[fooled once]

I agree, so why cheat? [These questions are posed to the hypothetical MM]. If it's not WW3 at home & you want to stay for the kids' sake, why not try your best to make things work & have a happy family unit? You are wasting many precious moments of your child's childhood by running off having an affair, cheating on their mom . . . why?? Either do the hard work to get divorced or do the hard work to stay married as cohesively as possible. To me cheating is the easy/lazy way out. If people would only put half the effort that they put into the affair into their marriage, or even replace it with time with their kids or a healthier distraction/hobby/what have you, I don't think they'd have as much to complain about. I just hate when MMs complain about their marriage yet stay & cheat. It starts to get old really fast! Like, oh poor MM.

 

Great post 26!

 

You know, I am always down on cheating, lying, dishonest behavior in general. I have done my share of "bad" things and I'm pretty vigilant with myself to guard against treading upon dangerous ground in my life today.

 

So, I am pretty unsympathetic with any of the self-made problems of the OW's in this forum and in the big world.

 

Yes indeed, things that are "bigger" than us do happen in life, and who am I to say that you, Cabin, and your AP are not star-crossed lovers for real. Maybe you are.

 

STILL. PLEASE try to distance yourself from denigrating the victim/ target of his and your dishonest behavior.

 

How she is reacting to the potential loss of her husband and her family as she knows it is none of your business AT ALL.

 

And if your AP is truly done with being married to her, he WILL NOT be "stuck" in his marriage. People who are unhappily married get divorced hundreds of times every day, and without even having an AP waiting in the wings. Getting divorced, hacking through all the horrible custody and financial messes involved in that, is what the unhappily married people DO in our society. Since more than half of marriages end in divorce, I don't think an overweening percentage of miserable husbands are permanently "stuck" because their wife is making divorce unpleasant for them.

 

If he's done with his family life, he WILL get divorced, whether you are waiting there for him or not. If he's not done ... he will stay married and either continue to have affairs, or maybe change that.

 

Great post!

 

Unless a person is very rich, rich enough to have the ability to hide assets...divorce screws everyone pretty much equally. Its only unfair to whichever spouse you have in front of you. To most people who say they cannot leave their spouse because they will be screwed...that simply means they prefer that thier ex be screwed more. Nobody "wins" all the way around in a divorce and its generally understood to all except those who feel they have to win or they wont go.

 

Joint custody - entitled shared/split custody here - is anywhere in the range of a 40/60% to 50/50% split of time. Two weekends a month is not that.

 

So he will be moving into the same school district, correct? He will be making daycare arrangements for his time with the kid?

 

Did you know one of the worst things a parent can do is not make one of the homes a PRIMARY home? Do you know that adult kids of divorced parents hated having to have 2 homes and having to split time 50/50? There have been a TON of talk shows about it. Kids need a safety place. A home that they live in; not be shuttled like cattle back and forth between 2 homes.

 

Where was the MM when the kids needed homework, baths, school supplies? Was he with you? Has he been devoting his non-working hours to the children? How can he be doing that when he has been having an affair? Why is it that the cheater all of a sudden wants fair share of the kids when the couple discuss divorce? What about the time he was off having an affair? Most dad's decide they want 50/50 because child support is lower when calculating the # of overnights a non-custodial parent has. So is it because he wants lower child support or because he is going to change his ways and NOW become an active parent? What will that do to your love affair? How is he going to have time to see you when he is having the kids 50% of the time? Won't you feel pushed aside because NOW his kids are important?

 

My husband has 2 kids from his first marriage. I saw and lived him having every other weekend visitation. Many kids become teens and have no desire to schlep to the other parents home, taking them away from friends. I had a child from my first marriage and had him 98% of the time, being newly married. We didn't get a "honeymoon period" like most new couples do as we had children and responsibilities. I wouldn't have changed it for a second though. I am glad I didn't have to "share" my son with my ex. I am glad my H had e/o/w visitation. My H is very close with his kids - VERY close and both are adults. Just because he wasn't living in the same house with the every day doesn't mean there is no relationship. Like I said, the weekends he had his kids all activities were focused around family and doing things. Whereas if he had stayed married, he may not have appreciated them as much as he did when he divorced.

 

One has to admit this father has been making extremely poor choices, choosing to become involved in a secret affair, bringing a lot of deception and betrayal into the family home and openly making a fool of the mother of his children, a woman you described a few months ago as a wonderful mother. Probably this man needs some time to detox and get in touch with the part of him that is capable of thinking straight about how to treat a family. There are worse things than leaving the children in the hands of a wonderful mother for a few months and I'd encourage you to encourage MM to consider it, while he screws his head on straight and figures out if he wants to become the type of person who treats his family with honesty and respect or not.

 

Great post!

How does one find a link to something that a judge DIDN'T say?

 

Seriously :lmao:

 

I'm more interested in the court transcripts from where a judge chews out one party for daring to bring a divorce action and wasting their valuable time like what was suggested ...

 

Judges are sick of their valuable time, plus taxpayers money being wasted by ridiculous demands such as these...the men judges are pissed because they see themselves being screwed and the women judges are fed up with dependant women...it makes them look bad.

[2sunny]

Cabin - you have this all mapped out for your MM... but he could EASILY change all of your great life plans with two simple words...

 

i'm staying

 

we're finished

 

she knows

 

no more

 

stay away

 

 

 

pick one... because THAT reality happens in a lot of OW's lives everyday.

 

HE is still married to her - that is a fact... until his divorce is FINAL - you are stepping in where you don't belong.

 

until he FINALIZES his divorce - there is no reason for you to be making plans and assumptions with things that may never happen.

[Silly_Girl]

Cabin - how are ya? I think you've had some overzealous responses and your words are being applied so literally as to be unfair, in my view. No one knows the situation like you so use the advice that's relevant but if it's not, it's not

[2sunny]

Cabin - how are ya? I think you've had some overzealous responses and your words are being applied so literally as to be unfair, in my view. No one knows the situation like you so use the advice that's relevant but if it's not, it's not

 

overzealous? who made you the critique here - and assigned you to be her guardian?

 

hearing truth in situations is difficult at times - but necessary if she's looking at the reality of what is happening.

 

he may NOT leave his W.

 

she has big plans - and he could stay.

 

THAT is REAL!

 

him actually leaving - and her spending a ton of money on him is real too... and NOT in her best interest. HE should be willing to support himself - and his kids - or he won't respect himself much. she can't provide his self respect.

 

either way - none of those choices look to be ideal.

 

why not get a single guy - date him - and marry a man that's NOT already taken?

[NoIDidn't]

I'd say the OP was full of his excuses and his plan to use the kids to not go through with the divorce.

 

So typical.

 

A man that is determined to divorce will see her Separation Agreement as a starting point and offer a counter agreement NOT go off and whine about her agreement to his OW.

 

He isn't stuck. He just hasn't figured out how to end his affair instead of his marriage.

[2sunny]

I'd say the OP was full of his excuses and his plan to use the kids to not go through with the divorce.

 

So typical.

 

A man that is determined to divorce will see her Separation Agreement as a starting point and offer a counter agreement NOT go off and whine about her agreement to his OW.

 

He isn't stuck. He just hasn't figured out how to end his affair instead of his marriage.

 

he hasn't decided to stay and he hasn't decided to leave... so the wife made a move... now - ANY man that INTENDED to leave would FILE FOR DIVORCE.

 

so we are left thinking that he doesn't INTEND to divorce... so he's probably at home trying to convince his W to stay in the M. happens all the time.

 

he says he wants to leave - but when it comes right down to him DOING that - he doesn't do it. even if he divorces - you are still welcoming a cheater into our life and your home... a man who hasn't yet RESOLVED the REASON WHY HE CHOSE TO CHEAT! HE needs to figure THAT out - you can't do that for him either... otherwise, he will most likely cheat on you.

 

he's got a TON of work to do. i'd stay away until he does his healing... and comes out the other side - if ever.

[Silly_Girl]

overzealous? who made you the critique here - and assigned you to be her guardian?

 

 

I'm not allowed to share my view? Oh no. I am. As are you.

 

And no one made me the critique, the board already has one.

[NoIDidn't]

he hasn't decided to stay and he hasn't decided to leave... so the wife made a move... now - ANY man that INTENDED to leave would FILE FOR DIVORCE.

 

so we are left thinking that he doesn't INTEND to divorce... so he's probably at home trying to convince his W to stay in the M. happens all the time.

 

he says he wants to leave - but when it comes right down to him DOING that - he doesn't do it. even if he divorces - you are still welcoming a cheater into our life and your home... a man who hasn't yet RESOLVED the REASON WHY HE CHOSE TO CHEAT! HE needs to figure THAT out - you can't do that for him either... otherwise, he will most likely cheat on you.

 

he's got a TON of work to do. i'd stay away until he does his healing... and comes out the other side - if ever.

 

Nope. Nope......Now put this way, I'd say he intends to divorce but only in a manner that makes him look like the "good guy".

 

That he wants the OW, the kids, and the courts to think that he has the kids' best interests at heart. That is, until it comes out that he's leaving for another woman.

 

That's the point of her presenting the Separation Agreement, first. It paints her as the bad guy that wants to keep the kids away from him and take away all his money keeping him from taking care of them.

 

I also chuckled at the tax formulation done by the OP if the W received 50% of his GROSS income. The OP doesn't seem to know how this actually works. If she were awarded this request, he'd be knocked down into another tax bracket because he's only going to get taxed on the 50% that's left. Or maybe he made that part up and the OP didn't consider that his explanation had no basis in reality.

 

If he grossed $10,000 a month, she'd get $5000 and he'd be taxed as if he made $60K a year. A far cry from him having to live on 2% of his income.

 

I don't think he plans on divorcing BUT if he does, he plans to make it look like it was against his will.

 

I've seen how when the equation changes, both married, to one divorcing and the other left married, that the one still married feels the shift in the A and doesn't like it. Its common for the one still married to find excuses to stay married until the A runs its course and is over.

[2sunny]

I'm not allowed to share my view? Oh no. I am. As are you.

 

And no one made me the critique, the board already has one.

 

so she can speak for herself... if my truth about the situation hurts or makes her uncomfortable... SHE may want to take a look at why SHE is uncomfortable... but that is for HER to decide - and to deal with it.

[pureinheart]

FTR, the judge in DM's case did speak those words, and I have heard them spoken many times by judges dealing with irrational individuals, which in this case is the BS (which could be how the BS ended up as the BS).

 

Wow, I do have to say that my words got twisted beyond recognition and somehow that doesn't surprise me:lmao::lmao:

[Silly_Girl]

so she can speak for herself... if my truth about the situation hurts or makes her uncomfortable... SHE may want to take a look at why SHE is uncomfortable... but that is for HER to decide - and to deal with it.

 

I've no desire to censor you.

[pureinheart]

I've no desire to censor you.

 

Wow SG, how did what you said get to here ^^^^^....what a trip.

[Silly_Girl]

Wow SG, how did what you said get to here ^^^^^....what a trip.

 

My style of support for Cabin is not welcome here apparently. Ah well. *shrug*

[pureinheart]

My style of support for Cabin is not welcome here apparently. Ah well. *shrug*

 

Well, it was said that Cabin can speak for herself, so if she doesn't like your style of support I'm sure she'll let you know:)

 

Seriously Cabin...this is what DID happen to DM concerning his D. His ex submitted her expenses, what she wanted for alimony and even tried to get "child support" for their grandchildren.

 

When the judge saw her unreasonable demands and game playing he was very annoyed, and this set the tone for the entire D. Right then and there he denied alimony.

 

She had one of their kids and grandchildren living with her, the judge was totally floored by her asking for 3000.00 in c/s and denied it.

 

Bottom line...she got less than half because most of the lawyer fees were on her because of her bad moves. She got no alimony and has no rights to his SSI or company retirement.

 

Things are changing fast...the judges are seeing right through this crap, and in my area they could care less concerning if there is an OW/OM...what they care about is what is in front of them, the splitting of the assets period.