Why is a managed exit a bad thing?

[SBC]

SBC, not trying to be contentious but it is interesting that you say you're enjoying being a single girl but you're dating a married man no less. How can one enjoy being single but be dating at the same time? And at that, your dating relationship is with a married man, which adds certain complexities. You are also on LS discussing your relationship, which doesn't align with the idea that you're free, single disengaged and unconcerned about this MM and what ultimately happens and it's more of a casual thing. I feel like you either are invested or not, single and not looking or you're dating. But it can't be both.

 

I noticed you saying that you've been married before and wanted to be free and you don't want a traditional relationship....do you think you may have commitment fears, which makes the arrangement you have now a bit more appealing since in some ways it is "low risk" as he is not fully available right now? Do you think once he divorces and wants more of your time and doesn't want you to be "single" you'd start to panic? You're single but dating a married man... the irony makes sense, in that, you are single if the man you're dating is married.

 

I ask because some of what you're saying reminds me of myself and the contradictions I found in my own life, before I understood that I had my own issues with being commitment-phobic and emotionally unavailable, hence men in the same boat and odd situations where I was single-but-not-really-one-foot-in-one-out and that uncertainty appealed to me (yet caused me angst at the same time).

 

Could be. I freely admit, I am a work in progress. I do not claim to know what the SBC of 2014 is going to want or need.

 

By dating, I mean we see each other once a week or so. We chat via phone occasionally, and almost never email with a text thrown in there now and then. So yes, I am very much enjoying my time as a single girl.

[donnamaybe]

Maybe you are right, but it is a little late for that now...the horsey is already down the lane. However, I will say this, while in his M, he has been alone for many years. They grew apart a long time ago and he has been happy to fill his time with other activities such as golf, and tennis and guy friends. But he has been lacking intimacy for a long time and he wants it.

 

He tried, but she is not interested. I know, I know, it is just what he tells me. But I have lots of outside confirmation of this as well.

But I bet she cooks meals and washes his underwear and cleans his bathroom.

 

I would HAVE to have a man capable of being on his own. Well, lucky me, I DO have one!

 

But seriously - what if he's one of those guys who is incapable of living by himself? Would you want to be a part of that kind of dysfunction if it came down to that?

[country_gurl]

Maybe you are right, but it is a little late for that now...the horsey is already down the lane. However, I will say this, while in his M, he has been alone for many years. They grew apart a long time ago and he has been happy to fill his time with other activities such as golf, and tennis and guy friends. But he has been lacking intimacy for a long time and he wants it.

 

He tried, but she is not interested. I know, I know, it is just what he tells me. But I have lots of outside confirmation of this as well.

 

You can have 100 people "confirm" that they've grown apart and share no intimacy but unless you're a fly on the wall in their home and in their bedroom, you can't possibly know for certain. And if it's really TRUE that they've grown apart for as long as you claim, then it makes even less sense that he's still MARRIED.

[SBC]

But I bet she cooks meals and washes his underwear and cleans his bathroom.

 

I would HAVE to have a man capable of being on his own. Well, lucky me, I DO have one!

 

But seriously - what if he's one of those guys who is incapable of living by himself? Would you want to be a part of that kind of dysfunction if it came down to that?

 

I don't think she does. I am not saying that she is a no good lazy do nothing, but I don't think she is the slaving, put-upon wife either.

 

As for your second paragraph --this is why we are both taking it slow. We are getting to know each other. I would be far more concerned about him if he were jumping down my throat trying to get with me, but he is not. He is learning about me, just as I am learning about him.

[donnamaybe]

I don't think she does. I am not saying that she is a no good lazy do nothing, but I don't think she is the slaving, put-upon wife either.

Yeah, but I bet she does plenty for him. I don't know many people who do separate laundry, for example. It just makes good sense financially to do it together - and I'll bet she does it for both of them. He's getting SOMETHING out of his M or he wouldn't stay in it.

 

As for your second paragraph --this is why we are both taking it slow. We are getting to know each other. I would be far more concerned about him if he were jumping down my throat trying to get with me, but he is not. He is learning about me, just as I am learning about him.

But he's not willing to let go of his M until he has someone else waiting in the wings. As long as there is some woman willing to "get to know him" while he's still married, the dysfunction continues.

[SBC]

And if it's really TRUE that they've grown apart for as long as you claim, then it makes even less sense that he's still MARRIED.

 

No, it really doesn't. Fighting inertia is tough. He does not say bad things about her, he does not disparage her. So, it is not like they are fighting WW3. But things have become stale. They have different interests. Kids are gone, and that was a lot of the glue that held them for a long time. And now he wants something else out of life. For one, he wants to travel, she does not.

 

But if you believe that it is easy to just walk away from something you have spent years building, you are the deluded one.

 

There is so much more to it than just her.

[SBC]

Yeah, but I bet she does plenty for him. I don't know many people who do separate laundry, for example. It just makes good sense financially to do it together - and I'll bet she does it for both of them. He's getting SOMETHING out of his M or he wouldn't stay in it.

 

 

 

OR

 

maybe she gets plenty out of it, and he feels guilty for wanting something new.

[donnamaybe]

OR

 

maybe she gets plenty out of it, and he feels guilty for wanting something new.

Now you're rationalizing.

 

Also, if he isn't happy with the "old" he should end it first. That's what an emotionally healthy person would do.

[serial muse]

I can tell you that there is such a thing as a " Managed Exit" and that it is an excellent and valid tool. I can tell you this because I did it.

 

My now ex serial cheating husband begged me to take him back one last time. Of course I did, but with the condition that he sign away assets to me as an amendedment to a previous post nup (which was his attempt at a managed exit). I hit the divorce lawyer and soon as left the ink was dry on that.

 

If an OW is so close to MM that are making joint decisions and promises - certainly she is in a position to say " show me". Show me evidence of this Managed Exit. A managed exit is done for 2 reasons only:

 

To manage to extend the length of an affair

 

To screw your spouse

 

Because other than a couple who have a boatload of assets and constant legal representation...divorce is divorce is divorce. Its managed when it happens and not before.

 

Exactly right - and I can completely understand how a managed exit benefits the exiting person, particularly if that person has financial stuff s/he wants to arrange.

 

But as you say, 2sure, it's definitely not for the good of the person left in the dark.

 

That's why I object to this farce of a WS/OP discussing how a managed exit is somehow beneficial to everyone, and makes it easier for everyone, in the triangle. No. Let's just be up front about this. If your MM is dead-set on a so-called managed exit, OP, he should at the very least have the grace to admit it's for straight-up selfish reasons. He's just hoping it'll make things easier for himself.

 

(It probably won't.)

[country_gurl]

No, it really doesn't. Fighting inertia is tough. He does not say bad things about her, he does not disparage her. So, it is not like they are fighting WW3. But things have become stale. They have different interests. Kids are gone, and that was a lot of the glue that held them for a long time. And now he wants something else out of life. For one, he wants to travel, she does not.

 

But if you believe that it is easy to just walk away from something you have spent years building, you are the deluded one.

 

There is so much more to it than just her.

 

Oh honey, I am deluded? Don't think so. I'm not the one settling for less like you are.

 

Okay so he's not staying for the children but according to you, it's not so easy to just walk away from what he's built. Well if it isn't easy now, when WILL it get easier to walk away from what he's built? Whether it's this month or 5 years from now, if he leaves her and divorces, he's still going to lose half of what he's built. Wouldn't it make sense to get it over with now and then go on to live a life built on truth and honesty and authenticity than to wait until he's even older and less able to try and recoup?

 

I love how mistresses make excuses for why their MM remains with their spouse.

 

Trust me though, if a man dearly loves a woman he will move mountains to be with her and tell and show ALL of the world that she is in his life. A real genuine man would put love (particularly the love he claims he's not had for so long) above money and wealth. You are the delusional one, my friend. And if you think that they don't sleep together and have sex then you're even moreso.

[SBC]

 

Trust me though, if a man dearly loves a woman he will move mountains to be with her and tell and show ALL of the world that she is in his life. A real genuine man would put love (particularly the love he claims he's not had for so long) above money and wealth. .

 

I knew that old chestnut would get dragged out. In what time-frame must said mountains be moved in order for a man to prove his love?

[donnamaybe]

I knew that old chestnut would get dragged out.

Hmmm..... This sounds VERY familiar to LS. I wonder who you used to be.

[SBC]

Hmmm..... This sounds VERY familiar to LS. I wonder who you used to be.

 

That was a pretty common Midwestern phrase when I was growing up.

 

I assure you that I am not the reincarnation of someone else. What would be the point of that anyway?

[country_gurl]

I knew that old chestnut would get dragged out. In what time-frame must said mountains be moved in order for a man to prove his love?

 

Oh come on. A man tells you his sob story about a stale marriage, him and his spouse having supposedly grown apart, there is nothing to really hold them together anymore (kids are grown and gone), they allegedly have no common interests, no intimacy, bla bla bla..........yet he REMAINS. How can you respect a man, seriously, who lives a total lie. Be a man, find your balls and stop frittering your life away with a spouse and life you're not happy with.

 

How can you even respect a man who puts on an 'act' to his wife when apparently deep down he doesn't even want to be there? If anything, a guy like this seems to be a total pu$$y who lacks courage or strength or the drive to go after what (or whom) he wants in life.

 

Obviously you're different than me. I like a man who lives in the truth. Who goes after what he wants. Who doesn't just "settle" for less than mediocre but instead he goes after what he wants and makes things happen.

 

It's not like this guy just woke up one day and had an epiphany, or just suddenly realized they'd grown apart. Growing apart happens over a period of time. Years. Yet he remains there living with his wife, living a lie and telling her one thing and telling you another. What a catch.

[MissBee]

No, it really doesn't. Fighting inertia is tough. He does not say bad things about her, he does not disparage her. So, it is not like they are fighting WW3. But things have become stale. They have different interests. Kids are gone, and that was a lot of the glue that held them for a long time. And now he wants something else out of life. For one, he wants to travel, she does not.

 

But if you believe that it is easy to just walk away from something you have spent years building, you are the deluded one.

 

There is so much more to it than just her.

 

Has he ever tried to work on things?

 

I ask, because I believe that marriage takes work and things getting stale are probably inevitable, and therefore if you're not one to actively engage in your relationship everyday and make a commitment to work on things, then you should never pursue ANY long term commitment as no matter who you date, if you're just not the kind to work on things...then it will eventually go down the drain. I wouldn't want it to be that he didn't try and then because stuff is new between you two he (or you) feels like everything is wonderful, when truth be told, ofcourse it's great because it's new, but when it's not will he be around or be planning a managed exit from you with an OW in the wings.

 

I think in getting to know him, you should have that question in your mind and ask or try to gain a sense of whether or not things ended only due to it being stale (which IMO is something that can be worked on) OR is it truly that they are a couple that needs to be divorced. I suppose you have to figure out what you ultimately want as well, singlehood or eventually a life partner again and whether or not he would indeed be a good candidate in it for the long haul or just until you're no longer fresh.

[stillafool]

Okay so he's not staying for the children but according to you, it's not so easy to just walk away from what he's built. Well if it isn't easy now, when WILL it get easier to walk away from what he's built? Whether it's this month or 5 years from now, if he leaves her and divorces, he's still going to lose half of what he's built. Wouldn't it make sense to get it over with now and then go on to live a life built on truth and honesty and authenticity than to wait until he's even older and less able to try and recoup?

 

I love how mistresses make excuses for why their MM remains with their spouse.

 

The bolded is so true. The kids are gone, they aren't getting any younger so when is he planning on leaving or is he hoping to wait until his wife dies? No, if this man really wanted to leave his wife he would have been gone by now.

 

I have an acquaintance who became involved with a MM 6 years ago. She claimed at that time she didn't care about him leaving his wife, she just wanted the time they had together and that was enough for her. Well 6 years later she looks a mess, is depressed all the time and constantly spying on the MM and his family through twitter and facebook. I just think it's sad when people fool themselves. There's just no way you can have this amazing chemistry with someone, make love with them and be stupid enough to think you are not going to develop deep feelings for them. OP whether you acknowledge it or not those feelings have already started and that's why you are here on LS.

[jwi71]

Since this is now specifically about SBC...

 

What does he say he is managing? This is the part I don't get and to give some perspective SBC, I went through a D covering 7 figure assets and two kids under 5. Know what I managed? Not much.

 

Lets see...I filled out the asset sheets and wrote what I wanted in terms of custody. I then paid my lawyer to do what lawyers do - represent ME and MY interests. Total time spent managing: 4 hours. Roughly.

 

Then a few more hours of back and forth divvying up assets - call it 8.

 

Yup - 12 hours. That was the extent of MY involvement. And some bickering over business valuations - which was pointless ultimately (unique to my situation, normally its not).

 

So wth is HE managing?

 

And why does he still live at home? Once D is filed its hard as hell to claim abandonment you know...

 

The fear is, as already explained, is that this "managing one's exit" is bullshyte - it typically is.

 

Really...how many hours does it take to list crap out in excel that HE wants post D? You already know...not many.

 

Then the issue becomes, well wth is he waiting for? The ONLY answer that makes ANY sense is...he is not emotionally ready to leave yet. And that's no good for you. When I say D is easy...it IS. Easiest thing in the freakin' world...all you gotta do is make a phone call. See how easy that was?

 

When people say D is hard its because they aren't ready for it. Because when you are...its a simple phone call.

 

Forget the "managing his exit" bullcrap.

 

Just my .02 and something to think about - at least you have a life outside of him and this whole mess of his.

[bentnotbroken]

Maybe you are right, but it is a little late for that now...the horsey is already down the lane. However, I will say this, while in his M, he has been alone for many years. They grew apart a long time ago and he has been happy to fill his time with other activities such as golf, and tennis and guy friends. But he has been lacking intimacy for a long time and he wants it.

 

He tried, but she is not interested. I know, I know, it is just what he tells me. But I have lots of outside confirmation of this as well.

That's the real point. All conformation is from the outside looking in. No one is there except him and her. You have his version, not hers. Maybe she is the one who has tried for years to get him interested in mutual activities and gave up. Outside sources suck in marriages.

[xxoo]

Could be. I freely admit, I am a work in progress. I do not claim to know what the SBC of 2014 is going to want or need.

 

Didn't you argue on your other thread (the self esteem thread) that needs don't change? Maybe I am confused....

[SBC]

 

- at least you have a life outside of him and this whole mess of his.

 

BINGO! and we have a winner!

 

And when/if he sorts out his whole messness we will see what happens.

 

There, this is my advice, in a nutshell, to all OW's who are suffering wondering if and when he will leave. Maybe he will and maybe he wont, but in the meantime, while he figures out his "shyte" get on with your lives.

[SBC]

Didn't you argue on your other thread (the self esteem thread) that needs don't change? Maybe I am confused....

 

no, what i said was...

 

To me, a person's needs are not dependent on, or defined by, another person.

[SBC]

That's the real point. All conformation is from the outside looking in. No one is there except him and her. You have his version, not hers. Maybe she is the one who has tried for years to get him interested in mutual activities and gave up. Outside sources suck in marriages.

 

you may be right! Good thing we are dating, so I will know for sure before he moves all those mountains for me, eh?

[bentnotbroken]

you may be right! Good thing we are dating, so I will know for sure before he moves all those mountains for me, eh?

 

good thing?

[SBC]

good thing?

 

For me, sure. I cannot control him. He either is what he says he is (lonely, bored and wanting to change his life) and he then will follow through.

 

Or he is not, and he won't.

[MissBee]

you may be right! Good thing we are dating, so I will know for sure before he moves all those mountains for me, eh?

 

What potential red flags, or what would you consider the red flags you may discover that would change your mind about him?

 

Dating is for the purpose of discovering whether or not you want to eventually pursue something exclusive and a future with someone (although I suppose some go on dates and date with no purpose in mind). During this time you learn about the good, bad and ugly and make an informed decision about whether or not you have the same core values, whether or not they are honest, reliable, caring, all that and do they seem like a likely candidate for you to hand your heart to.

 

A man currently managing an exit and dating me while his wife doesn't know...has surpassed a red flag. I would like to know if this is a red flag to you or perhaps a yellow flag, signaling that you pause and think about the implications and whether or not it is safe to proceed. How do you reconcile this in your mind? As in, is it cause for concern or pause and how do you suppose it is something you move forward from?

 

If it is not a reason for concern, why not? I am curious to know what would be a reason for concern, if this isn't?