Why is a managed exit a bad thing?

[bentnotbroken]

IME it is a very good thing. It allows the WS to get all of their ducks in a row, finding somewhere for themselves (and their kids, if they have) to live before moving out and telling the BS that they want a D. Otherwise they'd have to continue under the same roof, exposing the kids to all kinds of animosity, and possibly even the kids having to witness the BS behaving unspeakably toward the WS (their parent!) with the kids traumatised but not understanding why. It's far better IMO for that discussion to be able to happen calmly with each S having their own place and the kids knowing they are safe and cared for.

 

When I left my xH I struggled to find a place to stay with kids, so we had to stay in the same house although separated until I could find somewhere. It was very difficult. I would not advise doing it that way. I should rather first have found somewhere and then told him I was leaving.

 

 

Or the kids get to witness the unspeakable gas lighting of the BS. Animosity if a crappy marriage isn't confined to those that involve infidelity. If you are on the receiving end of the manage.....it sucks. But if you are one doing the managing...the foot in the azz doesn't hurt as much.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

I have never known anyone who decided to get a D who wasn't smart enough to do some amount of getting their ducks in a row prior to announcing their intention to their spouse. I'm not talking people involved in A's ... just married couples getting D.

 

Divorce isn't something you decide and announce in an instant. I would sincerely hope a good amount of thought and planning would go into everything involved before making a final decision and announcing your intentions. It's not as though it would suddenly be done the instant you announce it - even if you've gone as far as getting a lawyer, getting papers drawn up, etc.

 

Quite.

 

I was the instigator of my divorce, but I think if I had been on the receiving end I would want to know that my partner had thoroughly thought things through and explored the "post-D" future and wasn't just deciding on a whim that they wanted to D.

[SBC]

You didn't answer the question of what you are here for. Your first thread was on self-esteem and when several OW wrote from the heart about how their affairs were affecting or had affected them, you ignored them and continued on your prefixed idea that no one could have their self-esteem lowered by a secret affair. This thread you bring up the topic of a managed exit, but when people start discussing what they know of managed exits, you give your own examples of going through old magazines and toys, and then later chide people for discussing your example.

 

You treat others on this forum poorly and give no one any clear idea what you are looking for on LS. The thing is lots of the people you dismiss have explicitly said they have found the feedback on LS useful or they are people who such comments have been directed to. Likely you could get help on LS if you showed some indication of wanting it.

 

I treat people in kind to how they treat me. MissBee and I had a nice conversation and at the end, I thanked her sincerely for her time and attention. Fooled Once went on a rampage at me, telling me she/he KNEW how I thought, and how I should not throw daggers at BW --I have not thrown daggers at her once. And so she/he got the same returned in kind.

 

I am here for the same reason you all are here. To discuss my situation, to offer my opinions, and to learn from others who are reasonable and not here to convert or judge me.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Or the kids get to witness the unspeakable gas lighting of the BS. Animosity if a crappy marriage isn't confined to those that involve infidelity. If you are on the receiving end of the manage.....it sucks. But if you are one doing the managing...the foot in the azz doesn't hurt as much.

 

I'm sorry, I'm trying really hard to understand your post. Could you possibly rewrite it in English?

[bentnotbroken]

I'm sorry, I'm trying really hard to understand your post. Could you possibly rewrite it in English?

 

 

I am sure like most your ability to understand is only limited by your capacity.

[whichwayisup]

I'm sorry, I'm trying really hard to understand your post. Could you possibly rewrite it in English?

 

English is your second language, I forgot about that jj.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

I am sure like most your ability to understand is only limited by your capacity.

 

I'm afraid you're incorrect on that. I'm simply not fluent in gibberish.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm afraid you're incorrect on that. I'm simply not fluent in gibberish.

 

 

If you say so. I guess I get it because I am not fluent in bullcrap.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

English is your second language, I forgot about that jj.

 

Actually, English is my first language, and my undergraduate major. Since you appear to be claiming to understand the post I have difficulty with, could you please do me (and other native speakers of English) a favour and translate it into English? thank you

[Severely Unamused]

English is your second language, I forgot about that jj.

 

C'mon WWIU. Fill us newer posters in.

[woinlove]

I treat people in kind to how they treat me.

 

Actually not. Essentially everyone who posts here is or has been an OW/OM/BS/WS or some combination of these. Many have given respectful input on your threads. Yet, you dismiss the bulk of us with your statement:

 

 

The mast line of this forum reads...

 

The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

But so far, I have found mostly BS and reformed OW.

 

Since one would expect to find a lot of OW on this forum, I assume you think your label of "reformed" (whatever you mean by that) is significant and is not to your liking. As I mentioned, you don't appear to listen to OW who speak from the heart on their painful experiences. Perhaps you dismiss them as "reformed".

 

If you don't like what you see perhaps you should look inward and ask why. What I see is a lot of people trying to gain better understanding of themselves and others and I think that is great. When someone comes here with a chip on their shoulder, snarky comments sometimes fly in both directions and that is not so great.

[Silly_Girl]

Actually not. Essentially everyone who posts here is or has been an OW/OM/BS/WS or some combination of these. Many have given respectful input on your threads. Yet, you dismiss the bulk of us with your statement:

 

 

 

 

Since one would expect to find a lot of OW on this forum, I assume you think your label of "reformed" (whatever you mean by that) is significant and is not to your liking. As I mentioned, you don't appear to listen to OW who speak from the heart on their painful experiences. Perhaps you dismiss them as "reformed".

 

If you don't like what you see perhaps you should look inward and ask why. What I see is a lot of people trying to gain better understanding of themselves and others and I think that is great. When someone comes here with a chip on their shoulder, snarky comments sometimes fly in both directions and that is not so great.

 

She did say 'mostly' and if that's her view, so be it. It feels like you're trying to censor... But I don't think that's your style.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

C'mon WWIU. Fill us newer posters in.

 

I'm guessing that it's an erroneous assumption that I'm a second-language speaker of English, possibly somebody known to the poster, with the initials cited.

 

I'm not. That assumption is incorrect.

 

But it seems facts are not allowed to stand in the way of good opinion around here *shrug*

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Who died and made him God? What gives his behind the right to make any decisions for her? He managing his exit, so as to cover his azzets. He is as noble as a fly doing what flies do. The plan should include both people who decided to marry, not just the one who wants to use cowardly actions.

 

How on earth does a "managed exit" translate into making decisions for someone else? Unless the person is acting fraudulently, forging their spouse's signature on documents or having the spouse certified insane so that they're prevented from exercising a view, all they can do is preparatory groundwork where joint decision-making is required, or act independently where they have individual jurisdiction, eg over assets individually owned / that fall outside of any "joint estate" if there is one / over things that are under their sole control (in the context of the M) such as resigning their job and taking up a new position elsewhere.

 

The other spouse is still free to make their own decisions - except on matters that require both parties being of the same mind, such as remaining M. Which is as it should be. No one should be forced to remain in a M they don't want to be in - whether infidelity is involved or not.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

maybe that depends on what you mean by "managed exit".

 

if it means he husband and wife sitting down together to make the divorce as amicable as possible, then that is a really good thing.

 

That assumes that both parties want the divorce. Sometimes one party is quite happy with the way things are, and is not remotely interested in working together amicably towards a divorce. Sometimes one party has to get on with it and do it, and present the other party with a divorce petition which that other party might not want. No one should be kept hostage in an unwanted marriage because their spouse refuses to accept that they (the spouse wanting out) are unhappy and wanting to leave the marriage.

[skywriter]

Sometimes when I read responses on here I wonder how many of you have ever been married or divorced...or ever dissolved a household before.

 

Managing an exit is not only about money. But before we talk about that I want to say... hiding money? Seriously--the concept of hiding money is pretty ridiculous. For the average Jane and Joe, most of their assets are tied up in tangible things---a home, cars, 401ks. Things you just cant hide easily. I dont know ANYONE sitting on piles of cash and gold coins that can be "hidden" And for the average American now a days, most of that stuff has notes attached to it, making it even harder to hide. It just doesn't work that way for most people.

 

But in regards to managing an exit. There is stuff you know? The plaque that builds up on both sides after years together. Tools. Junk in the basement. Piles of magazines from subscriptions that have not been looked at for years. Fishing gear. Kids ice skates and sleds from years ago. Look around your own home and imagine having to move. Moving sucks.

 

It takes an enormous amount of time an effort to sort through this stuff and 'manage' it.

 

And once in the midst of a divorce, sorting through this stuff is crap. If a lot of this stuff can be handled before a divorce --especially one like my MM, where the two have grown apart (and yes, I know they have. Small social circle and0 their story is familiar to many people) It can make the rest of it go more smoothly.

 

 

I don't want to be argumentative, but it does happen. That's exactly what my ex-H of a nearly 17 yr marriage and two kids did. He funneled money out of the bills, rented a house and already had a uhaul truck when he told me, he loved me, but he wasn't in love anymore.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

well, if someone wants a divorce, then they need to "man up" , tell their spouse they are planning to divorce them regardless of how they may feel about it and give their spouse a chance to "get their ducks in a row" too.

 

saying that "my spouse won't give me a divorce so I had to sneak around behind their back, file for one and then drop it on them "out of the blue" seems pretty juvenile.

 

If a person wants a divorce badly enough, I'm pretty sure that their spouse can't stop them.

 

I agree with this - though in some countries, that can take up to five years.

 

But I'm not sure why a "managed exit" is characterised as "sneaking around behind their back, filing for one and then dropping it on them out of the blue". The actual RL instances I'm familiar with were nowhere near that extreme. They involved one party researching the divorce procedure (grounds for divorce, how long it would take, etc) and consulting a divorce lawyer about that - would they be eligible with XYZ evidence to apply for a divorce on ABC grounds, what would the likely ruling be in terms of custody of any children, what would the likely financial settlement entail, what restrictions might their be on, say, wanting to relocate (to another city, another country, etc) if there were children involved, etc. They also involved seeking and finding (and, in some cases even organising) alternative living space (for themselves and any children, if relevant), alternative employment (if relevant) and transport, where required. They also involved speaking to the kids (age appropriately) about possible - or impending - separation, family counselling where appropriate and involving the kids in appropriate choices (such as choosing the new place to stay), and briefing school teachers on what was about to happen so that they could help support the kids during the change. Where relevant, family and friends were informed, to prevent embarrassing situations like having to "uninvite" a soon-to-be-X spouse from a family wedding / christening.

 

The spouse was typically informed of the decision to D during a counselling session, to allow them the space (and professional support, if they needed it) to respond in a contained environment. They were briefed about preparations made to that point, and next steps, and invited to speak to their own lawyers for alternative opinions before filing.

 

FTR, not all of those who embarked on the "managed exit" route did end up pursuing the D. I know of two examples where the investigating spouse worked out that they couldn't afford it, and stayed M (one until the kids had left, the other still). Had they not done the groundwork, they could well have landed up in a horrible situation with everyone alienated but trapped by finances.

[donnamaybe]

*shrug*

AHA!

[Saul Goodman]

AHA!

 

What does the bunny smiley mean, anyway?

 

As for "managed exits", it depends on the sanity of both spouses I guess.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[jthorne]

What does the bunny smiley mean, anyway?

 

It means someone opened the lingerie closet.

[jthorne]

You ARE a drag queen?? I thought that was just an unkind comment from the person who sent me the photos. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to diss your profession. I thought it was meant to be a joke. Apologies!

I'm sorry, it was too late to edit. I think you used to call it a hosiery stall, not a lingerie closet. My apologies.

[wannabdone]

I think basically a lot of people are generalizing and putting a "managed exit" into a certain category, just like on the other thread on whether or not you are a victim. I don't think its so black and white and I think there are many degrees and variations in each instance.

 

I have seen managed exits such as in a post that I posted earlier, where the H was funnelling money, transferring property/business and assets into his OW's name, and set up and executed a plan that left her penniless, basically. She got their home, a car, and spousal support for a year. Since he was smart enough to wait until the kids were over 18, she didn't get child support, so after a year, (which he acted kind on giving her, in our state, it is up to the man or woman, whoever would be the payee to sign off on spousal support, it can not be court ordered) she had no income coming in. She had been married to him for years and since she was a Freshman in college. She never finished college and coming from a traditional Irish Catholic upbringing, she was a stay at home mom. So, she had no education, no job, and no way to really pay her bills. I think we can all recognizie THIS IS BAD!!!! And the managed exit that is thought of as the ultimate betrayal.

 

But there are other variations of the managed exit. Some could be just as simple as maybe getting some bills paid off in order for everyone to be able to survive more comfortable. I have seen some managed exits that actually were to benefit the W, financially. (and the H as far as his reputation was concerned. Never a good thing in a small community for a man to walk, leaving his family not set up).... this managed exit was the H, buying a larger home for the W, with ammenties that the kids would enjoy, buying her a new vehicle, so she would not have to purchase one anytime soon, and trying to get a business up and off the ground so everyone would have the ability to live comfortably. I can see how if you were to go to someone the day you figured out that you were wanted out of R, not wanting to deal with the turmoil of emotions, plus still having to do all the above to get it all lined up for the D.

 

So, I can see how in some cases, it is an awful thing. But in other cases, depending on the spouse is, is necessary. And again, this depends on all the parties involved. There are some spouses that when someone comes to them and tells them they want a D, they will let that person go, not get insane bitter and work with them for the good of the children. And there are some spouses that absolutely will NOT allow this to happen. And this is how they would be whether there was a OW/OM or not. Its just who they are, and might be the very core of why the H/W wants to D them.

 

Also, I've seen people say they deserve to know, etc. And I do get what you are saying, they do deserve to know what is going on. But, quite honestly, if you can't tell there is something going on, and there has been a "shift" in things, their head is planted too far up their own ass then.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

But, quite honestly, if you can't tell there is something going on, and there has been a "shift" in things, their head is planted too far up their own ass then.

 

Sometimes the situation suits one party (the one wanting to stay married) so while they may recognise a shift, to their view, it's been a shift for the better. That their spouse may not agree perhaps doesn't occur to them - after all, THEY'RE happy...

[wannabdone]

Sometimes the situation suits one party (the one wanting to stay married) so while they may recognise a shift, to their view, it's been a shift for the better. That their spouse may not agree perhaps doesn't occur to them - after all, THEY'RE happy...

 

 

That is true. Never thought of it that way. That they might be seeing their spouse purchasing a new house, car, etc. as they are making progress to continue to live their lives together. Good point.

[country_gurl]

A managed exit, IMO, is all about the cheating spouse taking careful steps to cover their azz and azzets in preparation for dropping the bomb of divorce. Let's be real here, a lot of MM remain with their spouses (much to their OW's chagrin) out of fear that their spouse will take them to the proverbial cleaners once she finds out about the affair and him subsequently leaving her (and the family, if applicable) for his mistress. As such, a 'managed exit' is nothing but a calculated, self-serving preemptive strike that will benefit the cheating spouse.