Why is a managed exit a bad thing?

[serial muse]

Also, I've seen people say they deserve to know, etc. And I do get what you are saying, they do deserve to know what is going on. But, quite honestly, if you can't tell there is something going on, and there has been a "shift" in things, their head is planted too far up their own ass then.

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

There are so many shifts that occur in a long term relationship. You must know this. The idea that a spouse either has to be able to interpret all of these tiny shifts and put together the correct picture - aha! s/he must be CHEATING or preparing to LEAVE ME - or else have his/her head deeply up his/her azz is really ignorant and frustrating.

 

Really? Do you REALLY think that a spouse, when faced with deep changes in a long term relationship, should ALWAYS assume that it's due to either cheating or pending divorce?

 

Never depression, problems at work, insecurity, unhappiness about family, health, other things, etc. etc. etc.....especially when s/he is TOLD that that's what it is, as happens all too often. And when faced with a LYING spouse trying to do a so-called "managed exit" and in the process doing a shxtload of gaslighting, of COURSE it's still the BS who has his/her head up his/her azz.

 

That is just so smug. Get over yourself. It's awful.

Edited September 7, 2011 by serial muse

[2sure]

And here I thought I was unshockable.

Honey, that kicked me in the gut.

[woinlove]

It feels like you're trying to censor... But I don't think that's your style.

 

Not interested in censoring - I'm suggesting someone broaden her perspective as it is often a good thing to do if one thinks most other people are the ones with a problem.

[SoMovinOn]

if it means he husband and wife sitting down together to make the divorce as amicable as possible, then that is a really good thing.

 

Assuming the BS is capable of being adult, reasonable and amicable. The M is dissolving for a reason. The WS decided to have an A for a reason. Those reasons may very well include an abusive spouse or one who is otherwise unlikely to be capable of an amicable discussion.

 

For women who are in abusive situations, the advice is very much to have all your ducks in a row, be ready to move out, take the spouse to a public location to present the already prepared D papers - have him sign them, then for her to make an immediate exit and go to her new place.

[SoMovinOn]

well, if someone wants a divorce, then they need to "man up" , tell their spouse they are planning to divorce them regardless of how they may feel about it and give their spouse a chance to "get their ducks in a row" too.

 

saying that "my spouse won't give me a divorce so I had to sneak around behind their back, file for one and then drop it on them "out of the blue" seems pretty juvenile.

 

If a person wants a divorce badly enough, I'm pretty sure that their spouse can't stop them.

 

Again, you are assuming one is dealing with a reasonable person. The spouse who decides he/she doesn't want a divorce can do much more than just make things difficult.

[Silly_Girl]

I agree and wanted to add this. If someone feels that almost everyone is against them or out to get them, you gotta wonder where the problem really lies.

 

 

I see totally where you're coming from, but I also think that can be a very dangerous path.

[Saul Goodman]

I also think that can be a very dangerous path.

 

Now you've got me interested.

 

Why is it a dangerous path?

[Silly_Girl]

Now you've got me interested.

 

Why is it a dangerous path?

 

It's too easy to feel there must be 'reason' in numbers. There isn't always. Or there is someone else's 'reason' but not yours.

 

There's nothing to say that because more people disagree than agree with you that you're wrong, and if you go through life like that it would get very messy indeed.

[woinlove]

It's too easy to feel there must be 'reason' in numbers. There isn't always. Or there is someone else's 'reason' but not yours.

 

There's nothing to say that because more people disagree than agree with you that you're wrong, and if you go through life like that it would get very messy indeed.

 

Very dangerous?? SG, both Lady Grey and I suggested that someone who has a problem with most other people might want to look within themselves or one might wonder where the problem is.

 

I suspect the person in question will conclude her view of others is right no matter what, but I fail to see how it could be very dangerous for her to consider an alternative.

[Silly_Girl]

Very dangerous?? SG, both Lady Grey and I suggested that someone who has a problem with most other people might want to look within themselves or one might wonder where the problem is.

 

I suspect the person in question will conclude her view of others is right no matter what, but I fail to see how it could be very dangerous for her to consider an alternative.

 

I was talking in general. Assuming 'more = right'. Not about this thread, or this poster.

[SBC]

 

I suspect the person in question will conclude her view of others is right no matter what, but I fail to see how it could be very dangerous for her to consider an alternative.

 

Projection much?

 

You seemingly want desperately to believe I am a certain way, and you will continue to see me that way, no matter what I say.

[woinlove]

I was talking in general. Assuming 'more = right'. Not about this thread, or this poster.

 

Okay. Maybe we agree then. More are not always right. But sometimes more are, in fact, right. And, in any case, it is a possibility to consider.

[26pointblue]

Thank you Spice for your reply. I am not rationalizing, maybe it seems that way, but I am really not. Where I am at is, I like what I see with him so far, but at this point in my life, I am OK with how the situation stands. I have been married before, and I can remember thinking while married how I wish I were free. I don't want to go back to being in a traditional relationship like that. I honestly have come to love my single life of coming and going. At this point. That could change in the future, but right now, I am enjoying being a single girl.

 

And I am not tearing someone else's life apart. I am not encouraging him to do anything. I just watch what he does, I listen to what he says, and that is about it. I don't plan my future around it. And maybe I am just weird, or wired wrong, but it is not a tough road. When I see him, we have fun, we talk, we go places and do things, but when we are not together, I am not quizzing him about where he is, and what he is doing. I treat him just like I do my other friends.

 

The situation is very much based in reality, and I have no delusions about what it is and what it is not. I do not beg him for promises of a life together (although we have talked about it) and he does not blow smoke up my skirt. We both feel we are moving towards a life together, but we both recognize we are not there yet and we have a ways to go before we get there.

 

Basically, we are dating. I know this is going to reap scorn from lots of folks here, but that is the long and short of it. We are getting to know each other. I would not expect him to pull out and upset his apple cart at home for someone he does not know very well, and I would not want him to leave for me not without knowing if I want to spend the rest of my days with him.

 

We are getting to know each other and we take one day at a time.

 

There are so many different inconistencies here, things that don't line up. You sound so confliced, confused & like you don't know who you really are or what you really want.

 

You say you enjoy being a single girl & don't want to be tied down. Yet you wouldn't want him to leave his family for you if you weren't sure he was the one you wanted to spend the rest of your life with. So you're just toying with him, for fun & games?

 

I think if you don't know what you want [single life versus being in a relationship] than you shouldn't be messing with a married man because that has the potential of a huge fall out & a lot of people getting hurt. Sure, he would be to blame too, but why 'date' a man who is married if you don't even want to be dating/ in a relationship? Yes, I know there are women who enjoy being the OW precisely because they don't want the commitment/ full-time relationship . . . they like having their own life, & the MM on the side, just like they are on the side of MM's primary life/marriage. That is the only time I think it works out 'well' as far as the OW is concerned, but that doesn't seem to be your case at all, or, as someone else mentioned, you wouldn't be on here posting about managed exits & lowered self-esteem. Something is bothering you or you wouldn't be posting . . . why not figure out what it is? Instead of justifying your current, shaky, inconsistent stance, why don't you sit down & ask yourself what you truly want & whether you're settling for less than that?

[SBC]

There are so many different inconistencies here, things that don't line up. You sound so confliced, confused & like you don't know who you really are or what you really want.

 

You say you enjoy being a single girl & don't want to be tied down. Yet you wouldn't want him to leave his family for you if you weren't sure he was the one you wanted to spend the rest of your life with. So you're just toying with him, for fun & games?

 

I think if you don't know what you want [single life versus being in a relationship] than you shouldn't be messing with a married man because that has the potential of a huge fall out & a lot of people getting hurt. Sure, he would be to blame too, but why 'date' a man who is married if you don't even want to be dating/ in a relationship? Yes, I know there are women who enjoy being the OW precisely because they don't want the commitment/ full-time relationship . . . they like having their own life, & the MM on the side, just like they are on the side of MM's primary life/marriage. That is the only time I think it works out 'well' as far as the OW is concerned, but that doesn't seem to be your case at all, or, as someone else mentioned, you wouldn't be on here posting about managed exits & lowered self-esteem. Something is bothering you or you wouldn't be posting . . . why not figure out what it is? Instead of justifying your current, shaky, inconsistent stance, why don't you sit down & ask yourself what you truly want & whether you're settling for less than that?

 

You know what I find so terribly interesting in all of this? People are taking lots and lots of time telling me what they think I am, how I feel, that I sound insecure, shaky, inconsistent, etc, etc. And yet 14+ pages on, not one person has stopped to ask how long we have been together in this relationship. I would think that would have a lot of bearing on things, don't you all?

[woinlove]

Projection much?

 

You seemingly want desperately to believe I am a certain way, and you will continue to see me that way, no matter what I say.

 

I only "met" you 5 days ago and, yes, your posts gave me an impression of you. If your posts change, my impression will change. I have seen some fairly dramatic changes in a few individual posters at LS, in both positive and negative directions from my perspective, and my impression changes along with this. Anyway, my impression matters little.

[woinlove]

You know what I find so terribly interesting in all of this? People are taking lots and lots of time telling me what they think I am, how I feel, that I sound insecure, shaky, inconsistent, etc, etc. And yet 14+ pages on, not one person has stopped to ask how long we have been together in this relationship. I would think that would have a lot of bearing on things, don't you all?

 

How long have you and MM been together and how long did you know each other before (if you did)? Is this your first A?

[SBC]

How long have you and MM been together and how long did you know each other before (if you did)? Is this your first A?

 

I appreciate woinlove that you took a moment to ask, I really do. But in considering what you said one post ago, I think this is a good cue for me to back off a bit. As you suggested, I have made an impression (not a good one apparently) and adding more fuel to the fire is probably not prudent.

 

I hope I have not offended anyone, it was not my intention.

[26pointblue]

I was talking in general. Assuming 'more = right'. Not about this thread, or this poster.

 

I think MOST people think that cheating on someone is a bad thing. I would even venture to guess that you feel that way. So that explains the 'mob mentality' against cheating. Plus I think most people realize that an OW waiting for an MM to leave his marriage is not happy. It's a painful place to be so why encourage it?

[26pointblue]

You know what I find so terribly interesting in all of this? People are taking lots and lots of time telling me what they think I am, how I feel, that I sound insecure, shaky, inconsistent, etc, etc. And yet 14+ pages on, not one person has stopped to ask how long we have been together in this relationship. I would think that would have a lot of bearing on things, don't you all?

 

I think if you feel the amount of time you have been with him is important, then you should divulge it. No, I don't think it's important & that's why I didn't ask. I'm beginning to think you're just here to stir up trouble, & that saddens me. I did ask you twice whether you would be okay with him cheating on you like he is cheating on his wife, & you never answered me . . . you just answered more of my comments with an accusatory statement that no one has asked you a question you feel is important.

 

You are obviously not here to discuss or get support on anything, other than to rile things up. I have better things to do with my time, & so I wish you the best & I move on to other posters.

[donnamaybe]

I think MOST people think that cheating on someone is a bad thing. I would even venture to guess that you feel that way. So that explains the 'mob mentality' against cheating. Plus I think most people realize that an OW waiting for an MM to leave his marriage is not happy. It's a painful place to be so why encourage it?

Once an MM throws the OW under the bus or cheats on her with another OW then there will be an understanding.

[MissBee]

I wanted to belatedly say that I liked this post.

 

From the various posts we've heard about a spectrum of managed exits, some fairly balanced but still operating on some selfishness which may be justified under the circumstances (SU's description comes to mind here) and some uncaring and cruel. I do think how someone handles life's more difficult transitions, such as divorce, tells one a lot about the person. OW/OM who watch MM/MW go through this can learn from that if they choose.

 

Very much so, I concur!

[Silly_Girl]

I think MOST people think that cheating on someone is a bad thing. I would even venture to guess that you feel that way. So that explains the 'mob mentality' against cheating. Plus I think most people realize that an OW waiting for an MM to leave his marriage is not happy. It's a painful place to be so why encourage it?

 

Either you're not reading what I wrote, or this above isn't directed at me.

[MissBee]

well, if someone wants a divorce, then they need to "man up" , tell their spouse they are planning to divorce them regardless of how they may feel about it and give their spouse a chance to "get their ducks in a row" too.

 

saying that "my spouse won't give me a divorce so I had to sneak around behind their back, file for one and then drop it on them "out of the blue" seems pretty juvenile.

 

If a person wants a divorce badly enough, I'm pretty sure that their spouse can't stop them.

 

 

Precisely.

 

I mean, I am of the mind that I must say what I need to say and give you the courtesy of hearing it and the CHOICE to discuss, if you so choose. If you do not wish to discuss, you disagree, etc, then that's fine but it doesn't stop me doing what I need to do, and I at least can rest assured that I put everything out there.

 

If I am going to divorce a man who doesn't want to divorce me, I am still going to tell him I want a divorce. I mean really....I'm not going to admit the truth and sit down with him about it because he may not like it??? Well pardon me, but conflict management is an essential skill to have. Since I am not married yet, this entire forum is making me realize how much I am going to need a man who can manage the inevitable conflicts that will arise and address them head-on instead of sideways, around the corner, in the dark..simply because I may disagree with him!

[woinlove]

If I am going to divorce a man who doesn't want to divorce me, I am still going to tell him I want a divorce. I mean really....I'm not going to admit the truth and sit down with him about it because he may not like it??? Well pardon me, but conflict management is an essential skill to have. Since I am not married yet, this entire forum is making me realize how much I am going to need a man who can manage the inevitable conflicts that will arise and address them head-on instead of sideways, around the corner, in the dark..simply because I may disagree with him!

 

Hey, great thing to learn!! A lot of people have trouble saying things they know people don't want to hear and a lot of people prefer people who do not say what they don't want to hear. Not me. Give me someone who is open and direct and has the ability and willingness to say things I don't like but can understand.

[Silly_Girl]

Hey, great thing to learn!! A lot of people have trouble saying things they know people don't want to hear and a lot of people prefer people who do not say what they don't want to hear. Not me. Give me someone who is open and direct and has the ability and willingness to say things I don't like but can understand.

 

As well as ability and willingness to say things I CAN'T understand.

 

Communication is definitely key. 'Bad news' conversations are vital in a serious relationship.