Why is a managed exit a bad thing?

[bentnotbroken]

How on earth does a "managed exit" translate into making decisions for someone else? Unless the person is acting fraudulently, forging their spouse's signature on documents or having the spouse certified insane so that they're prevented from exercising a view, all they can do is preparatory groundwork where joint decision-making is required, or act independently where they have individual jurisdiction, eg over assets individually owned / that fall outside of any "joint estate" if there is one / over things that are under their sole control (in the context of the M) such as resigning their job and taking up a new position elsewhere.

 

The other spouse is still free to make their own decisions - except on matters that require both parties being of the same mind, such as remaining M. Which is as it should be. No one should be forced to remain in a M they don't want to be in - whether infidelity is involved or not.

 

 

I don't recall posting at anytime that anyone should stay in a marriage that they wish to be free of. I did say put away the cowards hat, pick up a backbone and buy some ballz. Do it up front and openly. Then get the feck out.

[MissBee]

Hey, great thing to learn!! A lot of people have trouble saying things they know people don't want to hear and a lot of people prefer people who do not say what they don't want to hear. Not me. Give me someone who is open and direct and has the ability and willingness to say things I don't like but can understand.

 

Same here...I may not like it, especially at first, but I'll understand and respect you later for it.

[SoMovinOn]

ah, I see.

So some spouses, in essence, deserve what they get ( please tell me this is not what you are saying)

 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to restate what I said with an added spin to it. Are you asking me if a dangerously abusive spouse should not be handled differently?

 

Also, please define for me what you mean by "abuse" in the above statement. ( I am fully aware of what physical abuse is, but what do mean mean in the above?)

 

I mean abusive, in whatever manner a given spouse may be abusive. I am not sure I understand your confusion here. There is no type of abuse which I consider to be acceptable. Perhaps you could clarify your question.

 

 

Also, what damn right does one spouse have to say whether or not the other spouse is "capable of having an amicable discussion"? Again, does it matter? If they are not, then I would still feel that it is better to say one does not wish to remain married and wishes to seek a divorce. If their spouse won't be "amicable", then that's when their respective legal counsel can deal with the situation.

 

Really? So if a woman is married to a man who is prone to violent physical outbursts, you think she should be completely honest above all else, disregard her personal safety, and just take her beating?

 

why must honesty be so difficult?

 

More importantly, why must logic and reason be so difficult? I am shocked by the naivety of this line of questions. Perhaps volunteering some of you time at a local woman's shelter would offer you a different perspective.

[SoMovinOn]

If I am going to divorce a man who doesn't want to divorce me, I am still going to tell him I want a divorce. I mean really....I'm not going to admit the truth and sit down with him about it because he may not like it???

 

Perhaps you'd have a different perspective if you believed that man would beat you to show you his disagreement. Perhaps your perspective would be different if the man voiced his disagreement by telling you he'd kill you if you ever tried to leave him. Perhaps all he'd need to do is get out a gun and start loading magazines with ammo as you were having your amicable and honest discussion.

 

Reality doesn't always work with our ideals.

[NoIDidn't]

You know what I find so terribly interesting in all of this? People are taking lots and lots of time telling me what they think I am, how I feel, that I sound insecure, shaky, inconsistent, etc, etc. And yet 14+ pages on, not one person has stopped to ask how long we have been together in this relationship. I would think that would have a lot of bearing on things, don't you all?

 

How long have you and MM been together and how long did you know each other before (if you did)? Is this your first A?

 

I appreciate woinlove that you took a moment to ask, I really do. But in considering what you said one post ago, I think this is a good cue for me to back off a bit. As you suggested, I have made an impression (not a good one apparently) and adding more fuel to the fire is probably not prudent.

 

I hope I have not offended anyone, it was not my intention.

 

This exchange is quite telling. The OP complains that no one has asked her something she thinks is relevant to the thread, but when asked, doesn't answer simply because of the person that asked.

 

Telling. Is it important or isn't it? If it is so important, why not volunteer that information instead of playing games and then complaining about what you get?

 

I think if you feel the amount of time you have been with him is important, then you should divulge it. No, I don't think it's important & that's why I didn't ask. I'm beginning to think you're just here to stir up trouble, & that saddens me. I did ask you twice whether you would be okay with him cheating on you like he is cheating on his wife, & you never answered me . . . you just answered more of my comments with an accusatory statement that no one has asked you a question you feel is important.

 

You are obviously not here to discuss or get support on anything, other than to rile things up. I have better things to do with my time, & so I wish you the best & I move on to other posters.

 

Agreed. If one isn't going to answer a question, at least address that fact and say so. How rude to claim people aren't asking important questions but ignore the questions they are asking!

 

I'll be moving on as well.

[Silly_Girl]

I'll be moving on as well.

 

But only once you've put the OP in their place?

[NoIDidn't]

But only once you've put the OP in their place?

 

How exactly did I put the OP in her place? And what place did I put her in?

 

It must have seemed witty before you submitted the reply.

 

I actually added something to the conversation before deciding to bow out. Is it your place to question my post or only contribute by attempting to start an argument?

 

Good grief.

[fooled once]

excellent question! The mast line of this forum reads...

 

The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

But so far, I have found mostly BS and reformed OW.

 

It seems to me that this is really a place for OW that are unsure of their situation, and the rest of you are here to talk them out of it. To show them the errors of their ways, or whatever. The only support I see is when an OW is suffering greatly in NC. Otherwise, she is all kinds of bad.

 

Interesting that you used the "reformed" word, which is generally not used here unless a poster wants to belittle others. Why would you use that term instead of "former"? Kinda like the lightbulb went off and bam..the curtain has been pulled back and we see who is really behind the curtain

 

It is so sad that so many former OW have posted on this thread and yet you choose to say only BS's and "reformed" OW are posting here. What a kick in the face to some posters And using the old "only those in NC are supported" line. Again, the curtain has revealed someone from the past..

 

This true story illustrates how quickly a man can make up his mind to leave and make it happen. My ex husband and his managed exit went down like this.

 

He and I had been married for 9 years, been together for about 12. We had 2 children. Our marriage wasn't that bad (I thought) but knew that it wasn't that great either. We had a huge amount of stress due to family illness so things had gotten more stressful but I didn't see what was coming.

 

No fight, no discussion about separating or divorce preceded this and I didn't have any suspicion that there was an affair. It was the Sunday before labor day, we had some rare quite time. One of the kids was at Grannys, the other asleep, so we made love. This was followed by him announcing that he was leaving me. Shocked doesn't cover it. He left in the next few days. Moved out his clothes, moved in with his brother. In less than a month I was presented with a separation agreement that he had drafted by a lawyer. Within two months from the time he left, he announced that he was going to be dating. I was absolutely crushed and hadn't even begun to grasp the reality of what had happened. Within 4 months of our separation he had moved her in.

 

In hindsight and I don't have absolute confirmation of it, but I'm pretty sure there was an affair going on, probably an ea with the same woman he announced he was going to date. They ended up getting married and are since divorced as she had some health problems and turned into a prescription drug addict who stole money and funneled into her habit.

 

So men that do want to leave can and do it quick quickly.

 

LG, my divorce went quickly too. After an incident on a Saturday night, I called law offices Monday morning. I got an appointment for Wednesday, went, listened and hired her and told my now XH that afternoon. There was no infidelity and there was no months and weeks of planning. It just was time. Infact, he made out very well in our divorce where as I got the only 1 thing I wanted - sole custody of our son. I also got all the debt and 1/2 of what the state would have required in child support. Most importantly, I got MY FREEDOM. So a divorce CAN happen quickly even without all this undercover plotting and planning.

[SoMovinOn]

So a divorce CAN happen quickly even without all this undercover plotting and planning.

 

Like most things in life, divorces have a wide variety of possibilities. In some cases, a divorce can happen very quickly, with very little planning, in other cases, it can take years, even with a lot of prior planning.

[bentnotbroken]

It seems a "managed exit" feels like a bad thing to the person who feels it ought to have been THEM managing it.

 

 

Or if you are the one being "managed" without your knowledge or input.

[woinlove]

How can you be "managed"? Did you sign a power of attorney allowing someone to make decisions for you without your input?

 

"Managed exit" is typically used to describe the situation where one spouse, the "manager" is secretly planning and not letting the other spouse know, typically to gain some advantage, often covering up an affair so as not to deal with the fallout of that. So the unknowing spouse, their shared life, and perhaps their children, are being "managed" through secrecy and deception. The lack of knowledge can mean a lack of power and control for the people kept in the dark.

[bentnotbroken]

How can you be "managed"? Did you sign a power of attorney allowing someone to make decisions for you without your input?

 

 

No I did not. Marital assets were moved without my knowledge or consent. As I am being gas lighted about questions I had. Lied to, bamboozled, hoodwinked, f*cked over...until, the shoe was on the other foot.

[donnamaybe]

Seriously, if someone is in such danger of bodily harm, why would they stick around and, furthermore, why would they risk more abuse by having an A which would most certainly cause excessive anger in the supposed abuser? Something just doesn't add up.

[SoMovinOn]

Ummm....that's not what this thread is about. This thread seems to be more about the typical scenario where one spouse wishes to leave the marriage and the other probably does not. Please stop trying to divert the discussion.

 

The thread asks the question "Why is a managed exit a bad thing?" ... I see no reason to assume the question would apply to a "typical" scenario". I'm not even sure what a "typical scenario" would be. You mention it would be where one spouse wishes to leave the marriage and the other does not, but certainly managed exits are done in any and every scenario.

 

Discussing the something that directly addresses the question asked cannot in any reasonable way be seen as a diversion.

 

"More importantly, why must logic and reason be so difficult? I am shocked by the naivety of this line of questions. Perhaps volunteering some of you time at a local woman's shelter would offer you a different perspective."

 

Ah, an insult.

 

First a diversion, then an insult? Come on Frozen. There is no insult in my above statement. A managed exit in cases where there is the potential for violence or abuse is NOT a bad thing, it is a recommended thing. Discussing that point in regard to managed exits is on topic, relevant, and something to be considered by those who may not fit into some specific limited parameters you feel should exist.

 

The topic here is not "Let's discuss why managed exits are bad in a typical scenario", right?

 

it may surprise you to know that I HAVE spent time volunteering at a women's shelter...

 

I admit, given the questions you asked and your desire to limit the scope of the discussion, I am not only surprised at your background and experience, I am shocked! Especially given the following...

 

I think you will find in one m m early posts on this thread where I did state that the only time I felt that dishonesty was warranted WAS in the case where abuse was involved

 

So why the incongruity? It seems you felt it important enough to bring it up in this thread early on, but now you feel it is off topic?

 

I don't think someone should wait to be abused to be concerned about it. It is conceivable someone may have suffered no abuse, but would feel such a threat would exist, and thus want a divorce. Maybe there spouse has changed over the years, maybe the spouse has something going on causing them to have increasing anger management issues (such as becoming an alcoholic), maybe the spouse has not risen to the level of abuse but has made threats... maybe someone feeling trapped in a marriage with such a person - not only due to the threat of violence, but perhaps for other reasons as well (finances come to mind), would seek an A as a means to escape the M...

 

I don't get why you'd want to ignore so many other possibilities and scenarios.

 

 

As for "logic and reason", well, I still stand by my feelings. If you are adult enough to get married, adult enough to have an affair and want to leave our marriage, then you darned well ought to be adult enough to be honest about it... sounds "logical and reasonable" to me.

 

Unless there are reasons, such as abuse or the threat of abuse, which might dictate they do otherwise, right?

 

It would seem we agree.

[SoMovinOn]

again, is this really the typical situation this thread is trying to discuss?

 

Again, I don't think such a broad question assumes any typical situation.

 

if there is such a risk, the spouse who is in danger needs to get out with their children as soon as they can and seek police assistance in doing so ( if the are very afraid for their life)

 

You know very well from your experience and background that doesn't happen, and you know why it doesn't happen. It seems very logical for anyone with no such experience to say "If you are getting abused, just leave!", but I know you know why it is so much harder than many realize for an abused person to actually do that.

 

Further, I can imagine scenarios in which there is no abuse yet, but the threat is assumed or believed to exist. Why would a managed exit, intended to avoid that, be a bad thing?

 

in the more usual situation, where one spouse simply no longer wishes to remain married because the have met someone else, are unhappy, etc., then a "manged exit" where assets are hidden etc. in order to "shortchange" the other spouse, well, i some ways could that not also be considered "abusive"? ( and please don't tell me that never happens because it most certainly does, by both men and women alike)

 

A managed exit need not be so nefarious. It can simply be getting your own things in order, talking to a lawyer, preparing D papers, finding other housing arrangements (especially in cases where an immediate exit is prudent). Nothing is forced on the other spouse - they have the ability to retain their own legal council and respond. They have legal recourse for the marital assets. Anyone trying to illegally hide marital assets or property faces the risk of legal action, so, even in cases where there is bad intent, the other spouse still has the opportunity to respond.

[SoMovinOn]

Seriously, if someone is in such danger of bodily harm, why would they stick around and, furthermore, why would they risk more abuse by having an A which would most certainly cause excessive anger in the supposed abuser? Something just doesn't add up.

 

You're right Donna, logically, it doesn't add up, yet, people are not dictated by logic. The reality is much different. Where there is actual abuse, the reality is far different than what logic would seem to dictate. Where there is only the perceived threat of abuse, I suppose that is a little more of a judgement call for the purposes of this discussion. In my mind though, if a person believes they may face violence or abuse, even where there has been none previously, the prudent choice is to avoid the risk. There is no downside to being wrong in that case.

 

As for why they would risk having an A? ... that should probably be an entirely different thread. To just give you a little food for thought though - one possibility is the A is the means to escape the abusive M. Another would be the person doesn't feel things could possibly be worse, so, why not? Another might be there self esteem is so low, they seek an A in an effort to boost themselves up. ... just a few ideas.

[donnamaybe]

in a lot of cases where there is serious abuse, the woman ( or man) may be too terrified to leave...she/he has to hit "rock bottom" before they can leave...also,the abuser ma eccl between being abusive and being repentant and kind so the abused woman/man is thrown off balance...the get treated like crap ( or worse) and think that this is the time the will leave. But the abuser says the are sorry, it won't happen again, I love you and i don't want to hurt you but you do ( whatever) and it makes me angry, etc. etc. etc. and the abused women/man forgives them and the cycle starts again. The abused woman/man may also have had their self esteem shot to heck by the abuser and in a twisted way almost feel the somehow "deserve" the abuse.

 

In the cases I am aware of from my 26 years of criminal justice experience, I don't recall such a woman cheating - not a terrified one. Now an emotionally abused woman, certainly.

[SoMovinOn]

In the cases I am aware of from my 26 years of criminal justice experience, I don't recall such a woman cheating - not a terrified one.

 

Would there have been a reason for any of these women to tell you if the were involved in an A?

 

 

Now an emotionally abused woman, certainly.

 

Knowing emotional abuse can be a precursor to physical abuse, would you agree a managed exit might be a prudent choice for someone in that situation?

[NoIDidn't]

How can you be "managed"? Did you sign a power of attorney allowing someone to make decisions for you without your input?

 

Isn't this exactly what the MM is doing with his OW when he's planning his divorce with her, and for her, instead of doing this with the one he is divorcing?

[NoIDidn't]

please find my responses in bold italic characters

 

Isn't easy for posters to set up these strawmen and then to knock them down?

 

Strawman: abusive spouse, not at all mentioned in the OP

 

Knockdown: you must be naive to not know this happens.

 

It doesn't happen in every single case. Its not happening in the case the OP mentions.

 

Plus, who would blame the W of an abuser for managing her exit safely? I'd have to question her sanity though, if she thinks its safer to have an affair to manage that exit than to call a counsellor, a lawyer, and local law enforcement to help her get out.

[SBC]

Wow, this thread really grew legs of its own.

 

Anyway, in having taken to heart some of the comments here, I told him I would have to say goodbye until he can get his stuff managed completely and on his own. He said he is not ready at this point.

 

We had a very heartfelt exchange, but it all came down to he is there, and I am here and until we are in sync we have to be done with each other.

 

So there you have it.

 

I feel like sh*t, but I take comfort in that I sincerely believe that our story is not yet finished.

[SBC]

 

I do think your story is done though as long as you stay strong. He is not leaving. He ripped his band aid off and he will soon need a new band aid to cover that gaping hole.

 

You know, this is not very helpful. At all. You can believe what you want, but I know I am not disposable to him. He is not going to run out next week and find a replacement for me like a broken car part. Maybe when we first started this might have been the case, but not after everything we have shared. He may be struggling with what he is facing, and he may not be handling the situation well, but he is not that shallow.

 

It may give you comfort to have to destroy and dishonor what did not work out for you, and I find this to be the case with a lot of women. But I don't. Good things for both of us came from our time together, and if this is all that God grants us, then so be it. But I am not going to p*ss on it just because I don't get my faerie tale ending.

Edited September 11, 2011 by SBC

[SBC]

Thank you LadyGrey

[MissBee]

You know, this is not very helpful. At all. You can believe what you want, but I know I am not disposable to him. He is not going to run out next week and find a replacement for me like a broken car part. Maybe when we first started this might have been the case, but not after everything we have shared. He may be struggling with what he is facing, and he may not be handling the situation well, but he is not that shallow.

 

It may give you comfort to have to destroy and dishonor what did not work out for you, and I find this to be the case with a lot of women. But I don't. Good things for both of us came from our time together, and if this is all that God grants us, then so be it. But I am not going to p*ss on it just because I don't get my faerie tale ending.

 

Only good can come of your decision SBC. I see nothing wrong in someone sorting out their life before adding another to the mix. Good luck to you!

[SBC]

I am not saying you are disposable. I am sure he will be in real pain also. Especially if you stay strong. You must stay no contact. He can not have both or you will never heal. He will leave his wife if your love is enough. Trust in that, do not be a crutch.

 

There is something broken in him though to begin an affair in the first place and that broken place will not go away. There is even a bigger gaping hole now that you have left. He will need salve. He will find it. I am sorry.

 

You start out well, but it is always your 2nd paragraph that contains the barb.

 

You don't know Kristi what he is going to do. I don't and neither do you, so please, do not presume!

 

Now, please, enough.