Why is a managed exit a bad thing?

[stillafool]

We are older, so the custody and visitation are not an issue. Maybe because we are older is the difference

 

I am single, independent, young, fairly attractive, employed gainfully. In other words, I don't need him. I want him, and love him. But, if he cannot or will not make his exit, that is his problem, not mine.

 

Which are you? Young or old?

[SBC]

Your posts are curiously like another OW that posts here, so I was interested in the similarities.

 

I'm confused a bit about the bolded, which one is it?

 

Older as in not in our 20's and having been around the block a couple of times.

 

Young as in not collecting social security --young enough to still be active socially

[SBC]

Which are you? Young or old?

 

oldER. not old.

[SBC]

 

Anyway, you put up a tough front but if he doesn't mean that much to you, move on & keep this drama out of your life. If he does mean something to you then admit it & don't act like you won't be hurt if it turns out he's not really going to be with you. I think you're lying to yourself. Just my take on things, having BTDT.

 

I appreciate your comments. I have read a lot of your posts, and have found them very thoughtful and full of good insight.

 

I am not lying to myself. I may have at one time, but I am not anymore. I know the score exactly and I accept it for what it is. I cannot control the actions of someone else, anyone else. I could find a single guy and have the same problems ...will he or won't he be with me??

 

*hem & haw*

 

but I don't do that anymore. I live my life the way I want to live it doing what I want and what makes me happy, and let those around me live theirs the way they chose to live. I think this is the source of so much OW suffering. They want, wish, and pray that their MM will come and be with them (thinking that this event alone will make their lives magically better and more worth living) and then they get frustrated and upset when he does not do what they want him to do.

[26pointblue]

I appreciate your comments. I have read a lot of your posts, and have found them very thoughtful and full of good insight.

 

I am not lying to myself. I may have at one time, but I am not anymore. I know the score exactly and I accept it for what it is. I cannot control the actions of someone else, anyone else. I could find a single guy and have the same problems ...will he or won't he be with me??

 

*hem & haw*

 

but I don't do that anymore. I live my life the way I want to live it doing what I want and what makes me happy, and let those around me live theirs the way they chose to live. I think this is the source of so much OW suffering. They want, wish, and pray that their MM will come and be with them (thinking that this event alone will make their lives magically better and more worth living) and then they get frustrated and upset when he does not do what they want him to do.

 

 

You sound just like me when I first came here . . . sure, I was living in the moment, I was having my own life. But a part of me knew it wasn't going to work out & was purposefully deluding myself, ostrich-style, as you like to say. No one can be attached/in love with someone & not want it to work out. It's impossible!

 

Also you didn't answer my question about whether you would feel okay with him doing to you what he is doing to his wife. Yet you said you believe if he does it with you, he'll do it to you . . . think about that. Do you really want a man who cheats?

 

Finally, I wholeheartedly disagree that it's the same with a single guy versus a married man. I am dating a guy right now who is available to give me all his love & priorities. I don't have to wonder whether he'll leave his wife for me! Sure, there's no guarantee we'll work out but at least we're starting out on the right foot, instead of with lies & uncertainties & him being attached to someone else/ not able to give me everying I deserve. It's really a great feeling, very different from loving a married man.

 

I hope you can learn to value yourself more & stop settling for someone who is making you wait for him to supposedly make a 'managed exit' from his wife before he can give you everything you truly deserve. Him sorting through old magazines does not mean he's getting divorced, nor does it mean that he is giving you all you deserve. As someone who is not young/ not old, I can relate, & if you do have dreams of getting married & having your own family then you are wasting precious time on someone who has his own entanglements when you do truly deserve to be someone's first priority/ only partner . . . the only person they are trying to make it work with right now, rather than also trying to get out of another relationship slowly or maybe not at all. THAT is the difference between dating a single guy & being a MM's OW. It's huge. And even if you think you don't want marriage/kids [again, I can relate, I was there myself], you are still wasting time by not being with someone for whom you are their one & only! There are so many better things out there for you to do than dating a married man. I will stop my lecture now but I do hope you wake up. Good luck.

[SBC]

You sound just like me when I first came here . . . sure, I was living in the moment, I was having my own life. But a part of me knew it wasn't going to work out & was purposefully deluding myself, ostrich-style, as you like to say. No one can be attached/in love with someone & not want it to work out. It's impossible!

 

Also you didn't answer my question about whether you would feel okay with him doing to you what he is doing to his wife. Yet you said you believe if he does it with you, he'll do it to you . . . think about that. Do you really want a man who cheats?

 

Finally, I wholeheartedly disagree that it's the same with a single guy versus a married man. I am dating a guy right now who is available to give me all his love & priorities. I don't have to wonder whether he'll leave his wife for me! Sure, there's no guarantee we'll work out but at least we're starting out on the right foot, instead of with lies & uncertainties & him being attached to someone else/ not able to give me everying I deserve. It's really a great feeling, very different from loving a married man.

 

I hope you can learn to value yourself more & stop settling for someone who is making you wait for him to supposedly make a 'managed exit' from his wife before he can give you everything you truly deserve. Him sorting through old magazines does not mean he's getting divorced, nor does it mean that he is giving you all you deserve. As someone who is not young/ not old, I can relate, & if you do have dreams of getting married & having your own family then you are wasting precious time on someone who has his own entanglements when you do truly deserve to be someone's first priority/ only partner . . . the only person they are trying to make it work with right now, rather than also trying to get out of another relationship slowly or maybe not at all. THAT is the difference between dating a single guy & being a MM's OW. It's huge. And even if you think you don't want marriage/kids [again, I can relate, I was there myself], you are still wasting time by not being with someone for whom you are their one & only! There are so many better things out there for you to do than dating a married man. I will stop my lecture now but I do hope you wake up. Good luck.

 

Wow, I am not exactly sure how you got all that out of what I have posted. But I can assure you of this, I am not waiting for anything and I am very awake.

 

I thank you, again, for you time and the thoughtfulness of your reply.

[country_gurl]

I think the concept of a 'managed exit' is nothing but a steaming pile of horse puckey, brought forth by a MM to help him string his OW along and falsely lead her to believe that he's actually taking concrete steps to leave his wife and build a real and open life with them (OW).

[woinlove]

You sound just like me when I first came here . . . sure, I was living in the moment, I was having my own life. But a part of me knew it wasn't going to work out & was purposefully deluding myself, ostrich-style, as you like to say. No one can be attached/in love with someone & not want it to work out. It's impossible!

 

Also you didn't answer my question about whether you would feel okay with him doing to you what he is doing to his wife. Yet you said you believe if he does it with you, he'll do it to you . . . think about that. Do you really want a man who cheats?

 

Finally, I wholeheartedly disagree that it's the same with a single guy versus a married man. I am dating a guy right now who is available to give me all his love & priorities. I don't have to wonder whether he'll leave his wife for me! Sure, there's no guarantee we'll work out but at least we're starting out on the right foot, instead of with lies & uncertainties & him being attached to someone else/ not able to give me everying I deserve. It's really a great feeling, very different from loving a married man.

 

I hope you can learn to value yourself more & stop settling for someone who is making you wait for him to supposedly make a 'managed exit' from his wife before he can give you everything you truly deserve. Him sorting through old magazines does not mean he's getting divorced, nor does it mean that he is giving you all you deserve. As someone who is not young/ not old, I can relate, & if you do have dreams of getting married & having your own family then you are wasting precious time on someone who has his own entanglements when you do truly deserve to be someone's first priority/ only partner . . . the only person they are trying to make it work with right now, rather than also trying to get out of another relationship slowly or maybe not at all. THAT is the difference between dating a single guy & being a MM's OW. It's huge. And even if you think you don't want marriage/kids [again, I can relate, I was there myself], you are still wasting time by not being with someone for whom you are their one & only! There are so many better things out there for you to do than dating a married man. I will stop my lecture now but I do hope you wake up. Good luck.

 

26point, I remember you coming to LS and saying something along the lines of being happy and accepting things as they are. It has been very informative to watch your transformation into a woman who doesn't "accept things as they are" so much as play an active role in making sure things are as you want and need. So thanks for sharing all that.

 

OW in the 'accept things as they are' stage of watching MM leave/divorce/whatever, all at a speed which looks like someone keeps hitting the pause button on the remote control, are not likely to immediately see things could be different. But, I think having stories like your own, that one can follow in time if one chooses, is useful to a lot of OW as they begin wondering who is actually hitting the pause button and why.

[MissBee]

26point, I remember you coming to LS and saying something along the lines of being happy and accepting things as they are. It has been very informative to watch your transformation into a woman who doesn't "accept things as they are" so much as play an active role in making sure things are as you want and need. So thanks for sharing all that.

 

OW in the 'accept things as they are' stage of watching MM leave/divorce/whatever, all at a speed which looks like someone keeps hitting the pause button on the remote control, are not likely to immediately see things could be different. But, I think having stories like your own, that one can follow in time if one chooses, is useful to a lot of OW as they begin wondering who is actually hitting the pause button and why.

 

Cosign!

 

I truly love that.

 

I do believe in accepting the things I cannot change...but being with a married man or any man really who isn't my ideal, is not one of those things that fall outside the realm of my control, I'm afraid. I do love my agency and set intentions, ideals and goals for myself that I see come to fruition everyday and it's an amazing feeling . I have graduated from "things just happen" and "why rock the boat when I can enjoy what is" mentalities to one in which I make things happen and realize my choice in choosing/creating things that reflect what I truly want and not just what has been presented that is "good enough".

[Avery]

I must change my view of "managed exits".

 

Apparently there are different types of "managed exits". One being just cleaning up the clutter. Old magazines, kids skates, outdated christmas decorations...

 

In that case, I would very much appreciate it if my husband would begin his "managed exit" in the garage.. then the basement, then the attic, and finally the rec room.

 

That would be AWESOME!

[serial muse]

I think the only people who support a "managed exit" are the ones not being "managed".

 

I mean, think about it, OP. How would you feel if you were to discover, a few months from now, let's say, that despite what your MM was saying to you, he actually had been laying assorted groundwork for disentangling himself from you. Making plans with other people - another OW, let's say. Without telling you. And, let's not forget, that you "should" have known all along that he wasn't going to be true to you, based on various "telltale" signs. All of this sneaking around, lying, behind your back - because, he says, he thought it would be "easier" somehow.

 

Would you like that?

 

I mean, come on, the idea that a "managed exit" is in any way better for the BS is...well...BS. No one I know would not prefer to be in the loop. No one. NO ONE. And I include EVERY SINGLE PERSON - BS, WS, or OP - posting in this thread. NOBODY here wants to be "managed" and kept in the dark for their own good. It's really not that hard to understand why people don't like the idea, provided you're willing to put yourself - REALLY put yourself - in that position.

 

But I think that's where the hitch comes - and the inevitable "ostrich" business. That's a way of avoiding empathizing, because it suggests that you would never "be" like the BS - you would "know". You would be able to interpret the signs accurately. You wouldn't be in the dark in the first place, would you? If you were, it would be - wait for it - YOUR OWN FAULT. Looked at from that perspective, a managed exit is, in a way, completely fair - because if the BS REALLY wanted to know, why, she already would!! Therefore, taking things to their logical conclusion...the WS isn't REALLY lying to her, right? In fact, he's given her "fair" warning, via assorted signs, like cleaning up magazines unexpectedly. How could she not interpret that correctly! Obviously, she must not want to.

 

Sigh. Round and round it goes. Oh, OP. I sincerely hope you are never truly in the dark. That way you won't know just how awful it is.

Edited September 6, 2011 by serial muse

[2sure]

I can tell you that there is such a thing as a " Managed Exit" and that it is an excellent and valid tool. I can tell you this because I did it.

 

My now ex serial cheating husband begged me to take him back one last time. Of course I did, but with the condition that he sign away assets to me as an amendedment to a previous post nup (which was his attempt at a managed exit). I hit the divorce lawyer and soon as left the ink was dry on that.

 

If an OW is so close to MM that are making joint decisions and promises - certainly she is in a position to say " show me". Show me evidence of this Managed Exit. A managed exit is done for 2 reasons only:

 

To manage to extend the length of an affair

 

To screw your spouse

 

Because other than a couple who have a boatload of assets and constant legal representation...divorce is divorce is divorce. Its managed when it happens and not before.

[country_gurl]

A managed exit is done for 2 reasons only:

 

To manage to extend the length of an affair

 

To screw your spouse

 

Because other than a couple who have a boatload of assets and constant legal representation...divorce is divorce is divorce. Its managed when it happens and not before.

 

Bravo, well put!

[MissBee]

I think the only people who support a "managed exit" are the ones not being "managed".

 

I mean, think about it, OP. How would you feel if you were to discover, a few months from now, let's say, that despite what your MM was saying to you, he actually had been laying assorted groundwork for disentangling himself from you. Making plans with other people - another OW, let's say. Without telling you. And, let's not forget, that you "should" have known all along that he wasn't going to be true to you, based on various "telltale" signs. All of this sneaking around, lying, behind your back - because, he says, he thought it would be "easier" somehow.

 

Would you like that?

 

I mean, come on, the idea that a "managed exit" is in any way better for the BS is...well...BS. No one I know would not prefer to be in the loop. No one. NO ONE. And I include EVERY SINGLE PERSON - BS, WS, or OP - posting in this thread. NOBODY here wants to be "managed" and kept in the dark for their own good. It's really not that hard to understand why people don't like the idea, provided you're willing to put yourself - REALLY put yourself - in that position.

 

But I think that's where the hitch comes - and the inevitable "ostrich" business. That's a way of avoiding empathizing, because it suggests that you would never "be" like the BS - you would "know". You would be able to interpret the signs accurately. You wouldn't be in the dark in the first place, would you? If you were, it would be - wait for it - YOUR OWN FAULT. Looked at from that perspective, a managed exit is, in a way, completely fair - because if the BS REALLY wanted to know, why, she already would!! Therefore, taking things to their logical conclusion...the WS isn't REALLY lying to her, right? In fact, he's given her "fair" warning, via assorted signs, like cleaning up magazines unexpectedly. How could she not interpret that correctly! Obviously, she must not want to.

 

Sigh. Round and round it goes. Oh, OP. I sincerely hope you are never truly in the dark. That way you won't know just how awful it is.

 

AMAZING POST! You have expressed my own sentiment quite beautifully!

 

That's all!

[26pointblue]

I must change my view of "managed exits".

 

Apparently there are different types of "managed exits". One being just cleaning up the clutter. Old magazines, kids skates, outdated christmas decorations...

 

In that case, I would very much appreciate it if my husband would begin his "managed exit" in the garage.. then the basement, then the attic, and finally the rec room.

 

That would be AWESOME!

 

Ha ha, this is funny!

[xxoo]

SBC, you brought up the years of "stuff" that many married people accumulate. I think it is worth noting that not all married couples do that.

 

If a person does accumulate a huge amt of "stuff", it does, in my mind, insinuate some sort of luxury--the luxury of space, at the very least. Many of us are living in circumstances that make accumulating things very difficult (no storage, frequent moves, financial challenges, etc).

 

It strikes me that it might be possible to accumulate relationships in a similar way (holding onto the old, while pursuing the new), and how luxury plays into that, as well. Are some people spoiled by privilege, and feel entitled to keep all that they have? Do they have skewed concepts of wants and needs? Do affair partners play a role in spoiling them?

[spice4life]

SBC, I understand where you are comin from because I was there too not so long ago. I was amazed at the epiphanies I was having (similar to the ones you mentioned regarding self esteem) and I tried to justify continuing in any way I could because I wanted him in my life. I now realize, no matter how logical my arguments sounded, they were nothing more than rationalizations. And, like you, I had little to no information to go on regarding his life.

 

I think, in a sense, you are putting these thoughts out there because you are trying to justify it in your own mind.. and it's not fitting. And it shouldn't, to be honest. Who, in their right mind, would be comfortable tearing someone else's life apart as they know it? You said yourself that you know very little about their relationship, so how can you possibly be aware that "she" is aware?

 

Anyway, if you are comfortable with the "status quo" then there is no need to convince any of us. Have at it and enjoy. As a matter of fact, if you were comfortable you would be chiming in like the rest of us with objective view points and sharing your knowledge and cautioning others on how tough the road can be. I sincerely don't think that is the case though. These questions are nagging you in the back of your mind and your not quite ready to deal with the reality. That's fine too. Again, no need to convince anyone otherwise.

Edited September 6, 2011 by spice4life

[SBC]

SBC, I understand where you are comin from because I was there too not so long ago. I was amazed at the epiphanies I was having (similar to the ones you mentioned regarding self esteem) and I tried to justify continuing in any way I could because I wanted him in my life. I now realize, no matter how logical my arguments sounded, they were nothing more than rationalizations. And, like you, I had little to no information to go on regarding his life.

 

I think, in a sense, you are putting these thoughts out there because you are trying to justify it in your own mind.. and it's not fitting. And it shouldn't, to be honest. Who, in their right mind, would be comfortable tearing someone else's life apart as they know it? You said yourself that you know very little about their relationship, so how can you possibly be aware that "she" is aware?

 

Anyway, if you are comfortable with the "status quo" then there is no need to convince any of us. Have at it and enjoy. As a matter of fact, if you were comfortable you would be chiming in like the rest of us with objective view points and sharing your knowledge and cautioning others on how tough the road can be. I sincerely don't think that is the case though. These questions are nagging you in the back of your mind and your not quite ready to deal with the reality. That's fine too. Again, no need to convince anyone otherwise.

 

Thank you Spice for your reply. I am not rationalizing, maybe it seems that way, but I am really not. Where I am at is, I like what I see with him so far, but at this point in my life, I am OK with how the situation stands. I have been married before, and I can remember thinking while married how I wish I were free. I don't want to go back to being in a traditional relationship like that. I honestly have come to love my single life of coming and going. At this point. That could change in the future, but right now, I am enjoying being a single girl.

 

And I am not tearing someone else's life apart. I am not encouraging him to do anything. I just watch what he does, I listen to what he says, and that is about it. I don't plan my future around it. And maybe I am just weird, or wired wrong, but it is not a tough road. When I see him, we have fun, we talk, we go places and do things, but when we are not together, I am not quizzing him about where he is, and what he is doing. I treat him just like I do my other friends.

 

The situation is very much based in reality, and I have no delusions about what it is and what it is not. I do not beg him for promises of a life together (although we have talked about it) and he does not blow smoke up my skirt. We both feel we are moving towards a life together, but we both recognize we are not there yet and we have a ways to go before we get there.

 

Basically, we are dating. I know this is going to reap scorn from lots of folks here, but that is the long and short of it. We are getting to know each other. I would not expect him to pull out and upset his apple cart at home for someone he does not know very well, and I would not want him to leave for me not without knowing if I want to spend the rest of my days with him.

 

We are getting to know each other and we take one day at a time.

Edited September 6, 2011 by SBC

[donnamaybe]

If your A is just "whatever" with no thoughts of being with him exclusively (i.e. him "exiting" the M), why the thread about a managed exit?

[wannabdone]

If your A is just "whatever" with no thoughts of being with him exclusively (i.e. him "exiting" the M), why the thread about a managed exit?

 

 

I think that it stemmed from another thread, where they were disucssing managed exits.

[woinlove]

Basically, we are dating. I know this is going to reap scorn from lots of folks here, but that is the long and short of it. We are getting to know each other. I would not expect him to pull out and upset his apple cart at home for someone he does not know very well, and I would not want him to leave for me not without knowing if I want to spend the rest of my days with him.

 

Dating typically means one is engaging in some social activities in public together as a couple. Or are you using dating in some other sense? What are your circumstances with respect to his wife, family, friends, colleagues. Do they all know you are dating?

[donnamaybe]

We are getting to know each other. I would not expect him to pull out and upset his apple cart at home for someone he does not know very well, and I would not want him to leave for me not without knowing if I want to spend the rest of my days with him.

This is SUCH an unhealthy dynamic though, A or no. Swinging from one person to the next like that? Is he afraid to be alone? I wouldn't want a man who HAD to have a woman - ANY woman - in his life at all times. I have a HS friend like that, and it's garnered him nothing but trouble thus far. He's TRYING now to just be alone for awhile before he gloms desperately onto another R.

 

If he's unhappy in his M he should either fix it or divorce regardless whether or not you are in the picture.

[SBC]

Dating typically means one is engaging in some social activities in public together as a couple. Or are you using dating in some other sense? What are your circumstances with respect to his wife, family, friends, colleagues. Do they all know you are dating?

 

We do public things together. We go out to eat, we took a class together at the local community college, we go to the movies, etc. Normal stuff people do together. Some of his colleagues know we are close, I don't know if they know how close tho, but they don't ask and it is not my place to fill them in.

 

Mutual friends of ours (me and MM) know (his wife and he have different social circles.)

 

His adult kids live out of state, so I have not met them.

[MissBee]

Thank you Spice for your reply. I am not rationalizing, maybe it seems that way, but I am really not. Where I am at is, I like what I see with him so far, but at this point in my life, I am OK with how the situation stands. I have been married before, and I can remember thinking while married how I wish I were free. I don't want to go back to being in a traditional relationship like that. I honestly have come to love my single life of coming and going. At this point. That could change in the future, but right now, I am enjoying being a single girl.

.

 

SBC, not trying to be contentious but it is interesting that you say you're enjoying being a single girl but you're dating a married man no less. How can one enjoy being single but be dating at the same time? And at that, your dating relationship is with a married man, which adds certain complexities. You are also on LS discussing your relationship, which doesn't align with the idea that you're free, single disengaged and unconcerned about this MM and what ultimately happens and it's more of a casual thing. I feel like you either are invested or not, single and not looking or you're dating. But it can't be both.

 

I noticed you saying that you've been married before and wanted to be free and you don't want a traditional relationship....do you think you may have commitment fears, which makes the arrangement you have now a bit more appealing since in some ways it is "low risk" as he is not fully available right now? Do you think once he divorces and wants more of your time and doesn't want you to be "single" you'd start to panic? You're single but dating a married man... the irony makes sense, in that, you are single if the man you're dating is married.

 

I ask because some of what you're saying reminds me of myself and the contradictions I found in my own life, before I understood that I had my own issues with being commitment-phobic and emotionally unavailable, hence men in the same boat and odd situations where I was single-but-not-really-one-foot-in-one-out and that uncertainty appealed to me (yet caused me angst at the same time).

Edited September 6, 2011 by MissBee

[SBC]

This is SUCH an unhealthy dynamic though, A or no. Swinging from one person to the next like that? Is he afraid to be alone? I wouldn't want a man who HAD to have a woman - ANY woman - in his life at all times. I have a HS friend like that, and it's garnered him nothing but trouble thus far. He's TRYING now to just be alone for awhile before he gloms desperately onto another R.

 

If he's unhappy in his M he should either fix it or divorce regardless whether or not you are in the picture.

 

Maybe you are right, but it is a little late for that now...the horsey is already down the lane. However, I will say this, while in his M, he has been alone for many years. They grew apart a long time ago and he has been happy to fill his time with other activities such as golf, and tennis and guy friends. But he has been lacking intimacy for a long time and he wants it.

 

He tried, but she is not interested. I know, I know, it is just what he tells me. But I have lots of outside confirmation of this as well.