Why is a managed exit a bad thing?

[bentnotbroken]

For me, sure. I cannot control him. He either is what he says he is (lonely, bored and wanting to change his life) and he then will follow through.

 

Or he is not, and he won't.

of course.

[SBC]

What potential red flags, or what would you consider the red flags you may discover that would change your mind about him?

 

Dating is for the purpose of discovering whether or not you want to eventually pursue something exclusive and a future with someone (although I suppose some go on dates and date with no purpose in mind). During this time you learn about the good, bad and ugly and make an informed decision about whether or not you have the same core values, whether or not they are honest, reliable, caring, all that and do they seem like a likely candidate for you to hand your heart to.

 

A man currently managing an exit and dating me while his wife doesn't know...has surpassed a red flag. I would like to know if this is a red flag to you or perhaps a yellow flag, signaling that you pause and think about the implications and whether or not it is safe to proceed. How do you reconcile this in your mind? As in, is it cause for concern or pause and how do you suppose it is something you move forward from?

 

If it is not a reason for concern, why not? I am curious to know what would be a reason for concern, if this isn't?

 

I am in transition, he is in transition. Is it ideal? No. I am just living my life right now. I take what comes, and I have faith that life will put what I need in front of me, as long as I continue to get up in the morning and go out and make an effort. I could meet the man of my dreams on the street tomorrow and never look back. MM knows this too.

 

I am not over thinking this. I do believe he wants a change. I do believe he is making a change in his life, and regardless of what many here have said, I believe he is going about it compassionately to those in his life.

 

But I am honest when I say, I don't know what the future holds. And to be true, I kinda like it that way. I dont need to flip to the end of the book to find out whodunit, for now, I am content with waiting for it (whatever that is) to happen naturally.

[MissBee]

I am in transition, he is in transition. Is it ideal? No. I am just living my life right now. I take what comes, and I have faith that life will put what I need in front of me, as long as I continue to get up in the morning and go out and make an effort. I could meet the man of my dreams on the street tomorrow and never look back. MM knows this too.

 

I am not over thinking this. I do believe he wants a change. I do believe he is making a change in his life, and regardless of what many here have said, I believe he is going about it compassionately to those in his life.

 

But I am honest when I say, I don't know what the future holds. And to be true, I kinda like it that way. I dont need to flip to the end of the book to find out whodunit, for now, I am content with waiting for it (whatever that is) to happen naturally.

 

I am not sure how that answers potential red flags...I mean....saying something isn't ideal doesn't mean much as sorry, everyone who says that usually uses it as a euphemism to mean they are in a mess and they've accepted it. 9/10 times that's what it means. It's a catch all phrase that doesn't foster critical thinking.

 

Anyway, do you have an intention?

 

What I mean is, I am no psychic and I don't know and don't need to know "the end" either, however, I do have intentions. I find when I have intentions, life leads me down paths that fulfill the intentions I have for myself. I do not know exactly how a certain intention will be fulfilled, that is the part I am in the dark about, but when it is fulfilled I recognize it because it has been my intention. I go as far as to write down (like a vision board/journal) the things I want for myself, whether it is my intentions for this week, month or year as a whole. It is amazing how in reading through my journal later on, I can often check off every intention I set being fulfilled, all in wonderfully surprising ways. It may sound silly but I swear by it! There is a power in being intentional. I have said before that I do believe in living intentionally, in that you do have some type of ideal or goal of the things you want in life and then you allow life to nudge you in the right direction. You are flexible and open but you still have some type of guiding goal.

 

I liken it to shopping with a list versus idly browsing the store. The former allows you to spend what you need, get what you need and even if you browse and go outside of the list, you still end up having what you need and maybe a little extra. The latter may end up pleasantly surprising you but you are also more likely to end up getting a bunch of stuff you don't need, spending more money than you planned and then leaving and realizing that you didn't even buy what you need for dinner!

 

Anyway I wish you open eyes, ears, brain and heart in your situation!

[SBC]

 

Anyway, do you have an intention?

 

 

Sure! I have plenty of intentions. I have my eye on a higher level management position at work. I am an artist, and I am working on getting some of my work displayed in a hospital. And a friend and I are training for a triathlon. (hate the swimming part!)

 

Oh, you mean in regards to him? Not really. I like what I am seeing. And I think he likes what he sees too. We have some good points that we connect over strongly. We are starting to learn how the other ticks if you will. But I am not out picking out wedding rings, or dreaming of white dresses, if that is what you mean.

 

Are there red flags? Some would say that his marital status is one. Considering where I am at mentally, I do not. As for other ones, so far, so good.

 

I sincerely appreciate your conversation and your well wishes

[Severely Unamused]

Thanks for explaining.

 

The stories I've read of WS managing their exit dragged on much longer than your "managing" did (where the whole thing seemed to be contained to a week or so) and most didn't show evidence of the altruistic side.

 

My ME took roughly a month.

 

My experience from the distant past that has now been dragged up (maybe TMI for the more sensitive among you, but who am I kidding really?): I've slept with between 30-40 (I don't really keep a tally on these things) men that were "attached". Of these men, roughly one-third said that they would begin their own exits so that they could be with me. Of this third, only 2 men actually kept their word. One took around a year to leave. The other took nearly two years. Both had legal obligations to be altruistic.

 

Now, obviously divorce is a big step. But after a time, it became abundantly clear to me that they were just procrastinating. To p*ss around with your own time is fine. To p*ss around with other people's time is another thing entirely.

[country_gurl]

I've slept with between 30-40 (I don't really keep a tally on these things) men that were "attached".

 

Wow, what a legacy you will one day leave.

[Severely Unamused]

Wow, what a legacy you will one day leave.

 

Yes. I used to be quite loose...both mentally and physically.

 

All in the past now.

[woinlove]

Yes. I used to be quite loose...both mentally and physically.

 

All in the past now.

 

Hey, you can generate some pretty reliable statistics just among your own MM!

 

I'm curious - did you have a traumatic childhood?

[fooled once]

Yes, just two things that we do differently. I am not in the habit of reading others responses before deciding what my opinion would be. I have never had the power to MAKE someone repeat anything they didn't desire to repeat. Just ask anyone who ignores my posts on a regular basis.

 

I often tend to read the first post (if the thread is pages long) and respond and then go back and read the thread. Silly me, figured this was a way to get my thoughts out before forgetting them

 

 

My point, OP, is be willing to receive opinions that don't jibe with yours without being so jaded and judging people for believing differently from you. You'd be surprised how these things can turn out. And you'd be surprised how someone with a different opinion can give you a HELPFUL perspective IF you keep an open mind and stop assuming that those posting with you lack life experience.

 

What's the point of posting with people if you are going to pre-judge negatively almost everything said that doesn't fit your own limited worldview?

 

Great post NiD!

 

I'm not sure what's up with your condescending tone. .... But in the meantime you could just be believing his excuses/intentions without ever seeing the proof in the pudding, so this all could be a theoretical discussion, with your hypothetical opinions . . . just like those who may not have ever been married/divorced are contributing to your discussion w/ their hypothetical opinions. C'mon, it works both ways, & no one has a monopoly on the best way to handle affairs . . . which are messy & unpredictable to begin with.

 

Great post 26!!

 

I am not lying to myself. I may have at one time, but I am not anymore. I know the score exactly and I accept it for what it is. I cannot control the actions of someone else, anyone else. I could find a single guy and have the same problems ...will he or won't he be with me??

 

*hem & haw*

 

but I don't do that anymore. I live my life the way I want to live it doing what I want and what makes me happy, and let those around me live theirs the way they chose to live. I think this is the source of so much OW suffering. They want, wish, and pray that their MM will come and be with them (thinking that this event alone will make their lives magically better and more worth living) and then they get frustrated and upset when he does not do what they want him to do.

 

Actually, the 'source' of so much OW suffering is believing the bullsh*t that comes out of a MM's mouth - the "i love you and want you forever"; "I am leaving my wife", "My life is incomplete without you", blah blah blah. Anyone can spew words out of their mouth, the actions they take should be what is watched. So many MM tell the OW to please wait and give him time, he will be making changes, etc. And in the end, he never exits and then gets pissy when the OW holds him accountable for what he 'promised'.

 

Just like you are wanting and wishing the MM to make his managed exit. If his exit really isn't that big of a deal, then tell him to contact you when he is divorced. Tell him you don't date married men. Tell him to respect you and to not expect you to continue to sneak around and play secret lover with him. Tell him you no longer want to 'date' someone who is already married. Match actions with your words of how you live your life and don't concern yourself with what he does.

 

I must change my view of "managed exits".

 

Apparently there are different types of "managed exits". One being just cleaning up the clutter. Old magazines, kids skates, outdated christmas decorations...

 

In that case, I would very much appreciate it if my husband would begin his "managed exit" in the garage.. then the basement, then the attic, and finally the rec room.

 

That would be AWESOME!

 

This was hysterical!!

 

OP, one last thing -- I know you want to believe everything he says about his wife and you wonder how dumb she must be to not see that he is moving on or that the marriage isn't working.

 

Again, you are not there in their home. YOU have no idea what is truly being discussed. You have no idea if they are having hot sex every night or not. YOU only have his views, his version of events. Have you read the infidelity board where spouses are truly blindsided by their spouse having an affair? Have you read the posts where they are having regular sex with their spouse, only to learn he told his mistress they never had sex? Before throwing daggers at a woman who is married to the MM you are sleeping with; remember that just because HE tells you something doesn't mean it is the truth. Heck, there was one LONG TIME mistress here - 6+ years - who thought she was the MM's only lover -- because he told her that and told her it was SHE who he loved --- well, guess what. The MM had sex with his wife! Yep and he told the OW that. And the OW threatened to tell the wife if she ever found out he had sex with her again. Now, do you think the MM has had sex with his wife since? You betcha. Do you think he told the long time OW? Nope. He knows better now since she threatened to expose their affair. So a long time OW who thought she knew the MM so much and knew he wasn't screwing his wife was WRONG. The OW felt betrayed (I know, kinda funny, right! ) and even considered herself - the mistress - the BETRAYED SPOUSE :laugh: Just goes to show, MM lie!

[Avery]

I've slept with between 30-40 (I don't really keep a tally on these things) men that were "attached"..

 

That's quite impressive! So, let me ask. Were all your sleeping partners attached, or is the number of partners actually more than the estimated 30-40 when you include non-attached partners?

[country_gurl]

SBC, you are extremely condescending and snide to people who respond to you here. If you're so "together" and cool with your situation as a mistress and you have such low (if any) expectations for your situation with your MM, then I have to seriously ask why you even participate in this forum. If you're really got it all goin' on then why are you here?

[donnamaybe]

What potential red flags, or what would you consider the red flags you may discover that would change your mind about him?

 

Dating is for the purpose of discovering whether or not you want to eventually pursue something exclusive and a future with someone (although I suppose some go on dates and date with no purpose in mind). During this time you learn about the good, bad and ugly and make an informed decision about whether or not you have the same core values, whether or not they are honest, reliable, caring, all that and do they seem like a likely candidate for you to hand your heart to.

 

A man currently managing an exit and dating me while his wife doesn't know...has surpassed a red flag. I would like to know if this is a red flag to you or perhaps a yellow flag, signaling that you pause and think about the implications and whether or not it is safe to proceed. How do you reconcile this in your mind? As in, is it cause for concern or pause and how do you suppose it is something you move forward from?

 

If it is not a reason for concern, why not? I am curious to know what would be a reason for concern, if this isn't?

Big HUGE red flag, I.e. if he is this good at lying and sneaking around on her he could be that good at doing it to you. Wouldn't it show more integrity to deal honestly with people? Well, I guess that's a no brainer - for some of us.

[SBC]

SBC, you are extremely condescending and snide to people who respond to you here. If you're so "together" and cool with your situation as a mistress and you have such low (if any) expectations for your situation with your MM, then I have to seriously ask why you even participate in this forum. If you're really got it all goin' on then why are you here?

 

excellent question! The mast line of this forum reads...

 

The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

But so far, I have found mostly BS and reformed OW.

 

It seems to me that this is really a place for OW that are unsure of their situation, and the rest of you are here to talk them out of it. To show them the errors of their ways, or whatever. The only support I see is when an OW is suffering greatly in NC. Otherwise, she is all kinds of bad.

[Seraph1]

In response to the initial topic about 'managed exits' I can tell you that my life would have been A LOT easier for all involved if I had 'lined up all my ducks' before I said the dreaded 'D' word.

 

Let me make it clear that my marriage did not end due to an affair...at least not on my side. We'd been unhappy together for around 3 years and had stopped having sex. Maybe he sought it elsewhere...it doesn't matter to me now either way. However, my point is that I reached the stage where I got home from work, stared at him and realised that I just couldn't keep doing this. It was a slow and grinding drag towards a death that I hoped would come soon. I just looked at him, sat down beside him and said 'I can't do this anymore. I can't do us. We need a divorce.' He agreed.

 

We cried...and then the hell of moving out etc. started. Honestly, the effort of going through a divorce made our bond stronger for a while because it was SO MUCH WORK to get things done. 2 years on we finally finalised it but it was brutal as we went through stages of anger, resentment, renewed love and affection, friendship etc.

 

Depending on the stage we were in we would either co-operate or be ready to blackmail and tear eachother's throats out. He'd hang onto my mother's painting, I'd hide his father's cuff links... stupid stuff that just made life hell for the both of us. Childish in the extreme but it doesn't feel that way at the time.

 

If I had taken some of my most prized posessions and moved them to my sister's place BEFORE uttering the 'D' word it would have saved the exH and I a lot of time and grief. I wouldn't have felt inclinded to respond to his baiting if he hadn't had the objects (he knew I prized) to bait me with.

 

I think that a lot of the time an managed exit looks like a bad thing to people who feel that the initiating partner is going to screw over the other partner forgetting that in a divorce there are so many emotions and ways for BOTH parties to screw each other over regardless of who left who. Removing some of the ammunition would have made my D easier.

[xxoo]

It seems to me that this is really a place for OW that are unsure of their situation, and the rest of you are here to talk them out of it. To show them the errors of their ways, or whatever. The only support I see is when an OW is suffering greatly in NC. Otherwise, she is all kinds of bad.

 

Whether the posts here are helpful, not helpful, misguided, overly dramatic, or whatever.....I do not believe they come from a place of malice for the OW/OM.

 

Malice for the MP, yes, sometimes a little bit Well deserved, I believe

[Severely Unamused]

I'm curious - did you have a traumatic childhood?

 

Yes. But I think you already knew that wo.

 

If your next question is "Did your traumatic childhood influence your promiscuous behaviour?" I would say yes.

 

That's quite impressive! So, let me ask. Were all your sleeping partners attached, or is the number of partners actually more than the estimated 30-40 when you include non-attached partners?

Total number: 100-130. You lose count after a while.

 

The fact that these men had gfs/wives was completely irrelevant to me. The fact that some of these men developed far stronger feelings than I did was irrelevant to me.

 

I was a very callous person in many ways, before I met my husband and mellowed out.

[SidLyon]

Yes. But I think you already knew that wo.

 

If your next question is "Did your traumatic childhood influence your promiscuous behaviour?" I would say yes.

 

Total number: 100-130. You lose count after a while.

 

The fact that these men had gfs/wives was completely irrelevant to me. The fact that some of these men developed far stronger feelings than I did was irrelevant to me.

 

I was a very callous person in many ways, before I met my husband and mellowed out.

 

You seem.....umm.....familiar?

[Severely Unamused]

You seem.....umm.....familiar?

 

You can't wander around random internet forums without a Severely Unamused colliding into your face every once in a while.

 

Anyway, what do you mean?

[SoMovinOn]

Three, cowardly. Look, if you want a D...ask for one. Don't sneakily get all "your" ducks in a row, all the while pretending nothing is wrong, then leave.

 

I have never known anyone who decided to get a D who wasn't smart enough to do some amount of getting their ducks in a row prior to announcing their intention to their spouse. I'm not talking people involved in A's ... just married couples getting D.

 

Divorce isn't something you decide and announce in an instant. I would sincerely hope a good amount of thought and planning would go into everything involved before making a final decision and announcing your intentions. It's not as though it would suddenly be done the instant you announce it - even if you've gone as far as getting a lawyer, getting papers drawn up, etc.

[Silly_Girl]

excellent question! The mast line of this forum reads...

 

The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

But so far, I have found mostly BS and reformed OW.

 

It seems to me that this is really a place for OW that are unsure of their situation, and the rest of you are here to talk them out of it. To show them the errors of their ways, or whatever. The only support I see is when an OW is suffering greatly in NC. Otherwise, she is all kinds of bad.

 

Fast learner.

[Silly_Girl]

LOL, Silly girl. You've been here since June '10 so you're already familiar with the forum.

 

You really have no clue...

 

If someone doesn't fall in line they must be me?!

[Seraph1]

I

 

Divorce isn't something you decide and announce in an instant. I would sincerely hope a good amount of thought and planning would go into everything involved before making a final decision and announcing your intentions. It's not as though it would suddenly be done the instant you announce it - even if you've gone as far as getting a lawyer, getting papers drawn up, etc.

 

 

I agree with you! I had thought about divorce for a long time and mentioned it to my exH earlier on but then we both chose to ignore and rug sweep...BOY did I live to regret that! I had vague thoughts in my head about assets and division of belongings but I had not actually started to put it into practise! That was a clear mistake on my part! Made things so much more messy in the long run!

[woinlove]

excellent question! The mast line of this forum reads...

 

The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

But so far, I have found mostly BS and reformed OW.

 

It seems to me that this is really a place for OW that are unsure of their situation, and the rest of you are here to talk them out of it. To show them the errors of their ways, or whatever. The only support I see is when an OW is suffering greatly in NC. Otherwise, she is all kinds of bad.

 

You didn't answer the question of what you are here for. Your first thread was on self-esteem and when several OW wrote from the heart about how their affairs were affecting or had affected them, you ignored them and continued on your prefixed idea that no one could have their self-esteem lowered by a secret affair. This thread you bring up the topic of a managed exit, but when people start discussing what they know of managed exits, you give your own examples of going through old magazines and toys, and then later chide people for discussing your example.

 

You treat others on this forum poorly and give no one any clear idea what you are looking for on LS. The thing is lots of the people you dismiss have explicitly said they have found the feedback on LS useful or they are people who such comments have been directed to. Likely you could get help on LS if you showed some indication of wanting it.

[woinlove]

A managed exit to me is like having a roommate whom you've signed a lease with and you expect that this person will pay their half of the bills and you yours and you've organized your life around this agreement. Then one day, for whatever reason, difference in financial circumstances, your roommate suddenly hates you, or whatever else, this person decides they are planning to break the lease and move out in 3 months. However, they mention NOTHING to you, so that you can get your life in order and figure out what you're going to do now, and look for another roommate or some such. They busy themselves with finding other housing, everyday they move furniture out when you're not at home until a week before the 3 month mark they announce they're moving. That is that. They gave you no forewarning (or as SBC suggested, they expected you to notice that they've been moving furniture, read between the lies and plan your life based on these assumptions).

 

I think most would agree that such a situation is pretty messed up and the proper and responsible thing to do, would be to at least inform your roommate of the POSSIBILITY that you're moving, even if it isn't final, just a heads up that they may need to find a new roommate, and when you know for sure, you tell them in a timely manner so that they can get to manage their own life and reorganize it since circumstances are changing. Anything else is just irresponsible and inconsiderate.

 

I wanted to belatedly say that I liked this post.

 

From the various posts we've heard about a spectrum of managed exits, some fairly balanced but still operating on some selfishness which may be justified under the circumstances (SU's description comes to mind here) and some uncaring and cruel. I do think how someone handles life's more difficult transitions, such as divorce, tells one a lot about the person. OW/OM who watch MM/MW go through this can learn from that if they choose.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

After reading many threads on here, some going back years --I get the feeling that people think a manged exit is a bad thing. Like it is some sort of criminal behavior. Why is that?

 

I mean, I can see how it could be a bad thing. But I can also see how it could be a good thing for everyone. My MM is working through a managed exit right now. His goal is to prepare things in such a way so that everyone, he, her, their kids all come out better than if he were to just pull the plug and run.

 

Most people don't even go on vacation without some sort of a plan, why would people think that changing your entire life should be done without a plan?

 

IME it is a very good thing. It allows the WS to get all of their ducks in a row, finding somewhere for themselves (and their kids, if they have) to live before moving out and telling the BS that they want a D. Otherwise they'd have to continue under the same roof, exposing the kids to all kinds of animosity, and possibly even the kids having to witness the BS behaving unspeakably toward the WS (their parent!) with the kids traumatised but not understanding why. It's far better IMO for that discussion to be able to happen calmly with each S having their own place and the kids knowing they are safe and cared for.

 

When I left my xH I struggled to find a place to stay with kids, so we had to stay in the same house although separated until I could find somewhere. It was very difficult. I would not advise doing it that way. I should rather first have found somewhere and then told him I was leaving.