Are you a victim?

[26pointblue]

especially those former OWs now with their fAPs. They seem most abhorred around here.

 

Who abhors them??

[MissBee]

Wow talk about twisting words. Its a shot at anyone who doesnt look back with fond memories and feels they were taken for a ride. All you need to do is to read the plain English - not your strong suit I know.

 

And as for feeling like one is the victim being effective (not affective) who are we to decide whether someone feels like a victim? That is up to them. And this is cyberspace and how in the world to we KNOW what went on? Just because you have this chip on your shoulders that people who look back without joy on their affairs are reformed OWs doesnt mean that they dont have a right to feel that way.

And if you all are so very happy in your relationships then why is that so threatening to you? Someone else's unhappiness does not change your relationship with your lovely men.

Perhaps it is YOU that are going to the script. Its your fault. You got involved you knew what you were in for. What happened to compassion and support for the very OWs posting here?

 

Sheesh. Talk about an agenda. SG and her gang of girls are on the job again.

 

Great post!

 

I am curious about this as well...well first off being an OW was never my ideology or a political standpoint/identity for me that I'd brandish online or off.

 

I see a difference between those who have been int he OW position and those who seem to relish this designation as some form of role with which they've been awarded and to which they have loyalties. The former do not seem to be personally attached to being an OW, albeit admitting to having been at one point, while the latter does and seems to always pose from a stance of apologia.

 

Some say an A is a normal relationship or it's not ideal but they "just happen to be with a MM"...if so, fine...I'd imagine I'd have distaste for the term OW, as it implies the relationship isn't normal and if my stance is that it is then I'd shun any terms suggesting otherwise. But with the use of "reformed OW" t seems to be that the designation of OW is valued and the qualifier of "reformed" is supposed to devalue those no longer OW, don't want to be OW or who didn't feel their A or As period are the second coming.

 

I get that this section of the board is for those finding themselves with a committed partner; however, correct me if I am wrong, but did it say "For those HAPPILY involved with committed partners?"....didn't think so...but apparently some feel like that is what it really means. It seems to be that current OW, former, happy, sad - from every strain are welcome (and I venture to say that the designation of the forum is describing what the topics are about and not actually labeling WHO can/cannot post...unless one had to show some form of OW Member Card to be allowed to post here, then anyone interested in that topic, whether it's because it affects them personally or not, is allowed).

 

It is curious to me that I have no issue with happy OW posting. I may not agree with everything but surely I don't make threads or instigate arguments in threads about why they're here and that they're brainwashing unsuspecting, naive OW. I post as I see fit and who cares to read, reply or finds it helpful, so be it...but time and again "happy OW" nitpick about the same thing and seem to take personal offense to any spin on an A scenario that isn't of the Utopian strand of which they have been so lucky to achieve. Most should be on LS long enough to know that it is not a forum dedicated to "Happy OW Staying in As and planning Future As"....so if you know this, why not allow for ALL sides of the coin to give their views, and for those whom it helps, it helps, those whom it doesn't it doesn't. I am sure some OW lurking or posting admire "happy OW" and some don't....to each her own.

[MissBee]

Who abhors them??

 

Really...

 

If anyone is abhorred, it's probably because people find their attitudes off-putting and not because one feels any visceral reaction to them being a former OW turned wife/gf or whatever the case is.

 

I mean...maybe there are some people who truly feel perturbed by that, but most likely most people could care less about that, and why should they anyway?

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with saying "he lied to me", "he beat me" if he did. Do you think being a victim speaks poorly of the person victimized? What about the young child? If she was molested by a pedophile, isn't she a victim?

 

Perhaps I was unclear. I meant that she did not use "he lied to me" as a reason (or an "excuse") for anything. She took responsibility for her own choices, and retained her happy, positive outlook, not letting any of that get her down.

 

One can be victimised without becoming a victim.

(And no, her daughter wasn't molested. She did undergo counselling just in case, but fortunately nothing had happened... yet. )

[Silly_Girl]

So you clearly started this thread just for sport & to rile things up. How sad.

 

I started the thread to ask the OW what THEY thought. What on earth is the problem with that, really?

[Silly_Girl]

Hiya SG. I know Im gonna get jumped for this one, but, I dont think anyone is the victim in a A except the unknowing BS. There has been alot of posters lately, coming on here saying "they didnt know he was M" blah blah. He may have lied to you, but there were signs. There are always signs when something isnt quite right. Most decide just to ignore them. Instead of listening to our instincts, we go after that "love fairy tale" we as women normally seek.

 

Was I a victim? NO. I knew from the get go that he ( xMM and my best friend) was M. After feelings were revealed, did I continue? Yes. I felt that his M was already over, so I just kept going....To my everlasting shame.

 

I hope your shame isn't everlasting, actually. But I know what you mean.

 

Can I ask - if you think OW should pick up on the signs, do you ever think the BS should do also? Do you think they are ignoring their instincts or is that a different kettle of fish?

[woinlove]

Perhaps I was unclear. I meant that she did not use "he lied to me" as a reason (or an "excuse") for anything. She took responsibility for her own choices, and retained her happy, positive outlook, not letting any of that get her down.

 

One can be victimised without becoming a victim.

(And no, her daughter wasn't molested. She did undergo counselling just in case, but fortunately nothing had happened... yet. )

 

Okay. I agree as a function of time one can (and should) move from being a victim to not being a victim. One can both acknowledge the wrong done by others (as well as by ourselves) and also choose to take control and respond in a way which will move one to a better place.

[pureinheart]

But my post was in response to reformed OW's posts, not because OWs are here posting that they ARE a victim. On the whole they're not posting in that fashion, in my view. It's a bit of a myth, or not? So far most people seem able to take a considered view. There again, I'm already showing bias

 

So you clearly started this thread just for sport & to rile things up. How sad.

 

With all due respect, I think this needed to be addressed. If making a viable point riles things up, then so be it.

 

IMO way too many people see themselves as victims...I think SG's main goal is to shed light on a wrong mentality, shifting the "victim" to the "victor" no matter how your personal situation turns out. If I am worng SG please correct me, but that is how I see her OP.

[donnamaybe]

Okay. I agree as a function of time one can (and should) move from being a victim to not being a victim. One can both acknowledge the wrong done by others (as well as by ourselves) and also choose to take control and respond in a way which will move one to a better place.

I agree with this as well, but try telling a victim they are no victim. That would just be mean. Sometimes folks just DO need a shoulder and a sympathetic ear; not someone who says, "Oh, quit yer whining!" Of course, that shouldn't go on forever. That wouldn't be healthy. But everyone heals at a different pace. Let folks heal.

[Silly_Girl]

With all due respect, I think this needed to be addressed. If making a viable point riles things up, then so be it.

 

IMO way too many people see themselves as victims...I think SG's main goal is to shed light on a wrong mentality, shifting the "victim" to the "victor" no matter how your personal situation turns out. If I am worng SG please correct me, but that is how I see her OP.

 

Not far off, Pure.

 

There are sometimes fashions in the thrust of posts from responders, and in new threads started by not-so-new members. You can get 'Own it! You KNEW what you were doing. Take responsibility'. Or 'You're clearly enjoying the pain you've inflicted, it's cruel and destructive, you're not normal'. Yes, I know, some poetic licence here but you get what I'm saying.

 

Just lately I seemed to see more posts than usual painting MM as the big bad wolf and OW as vulnerable and ineffectual in rebutting his advances. So I wondered... these women who post here - who on the whole seem pretty together and self-aware - do THEY feel they were a victim in their own scenario?

 

I realise some things I post are contentious, but on the other hand some posters are going to take offence when I post.... regardless of the actual content.

[Owl]

This just reinforces my earlier point.

 

Either you're a victim...or you're a deliberate, intentional participant who should "own it", and accept the responsibility for your choices and actions...and the damage caused to others as a result.

 

I don't see how there's any middle ground in there.

[TurningTables]

I hope your shame isn't everlasting, actually. But I know what you mean.

 

Can I ask - if you think OW should pick up on the signs, do you ever think the BS should do also? Do you think they are ignoring their instincts or is that a different kettle of fish?

 

 

I think that people acknowledge what they want when they want to. I feel like some OW come onto this site and say that they didnt know he was M, but now they know, its too late...etc..etc. I dont mean to be harsh, but you have the choice right then and there, to continue onward. You cannot be a victim after you know he was M. Its YOUR choice to continue on with the R. I also think that BS's ignore the signs also. I think we as humans, get comfortable with our lives sometimes and "settle". Change is very hard to do and some just dont want to put any effort into it. Admitting that you are having an A, or your spouse is, means things must change. I hate it when I read, OMG...he is cheating! I never saw it coming! In reality, they did. After looking back, so many say...Yes, I knew, but I didnt want to admit it to myself and there were signs of it......etc..etc..Why someone would want to be a doormat to someone doing that to them is beyond me.

Ps. Thanks for the comment. I hope my shame and guilt dosent last forever either. But I think how I feel about everything that happen, keep me from repeating it.

Edited September 7, 2011 by TurningTables
forgot to add something..

[donnamaybe]

I suspect it is MUCH easier for a single gal with a faithful single guy not interested in a piece of paper than for a single gal relegated to servicing a married guy just to get him to spend time with her.

[fooled once]

Ill say it again someone else's choice to leave an affair or their unhappiness that they were in an affair shouldnt threaten those in affairs so much if they really believe they have strong relationships.

 

The only reason to feel threatened is if perhaps what you are posting about your oh so happy love affair is really not as happy as you'd like everyone to beleieve.

 

This is a board for support for people who are or have been in affairs. Making fun of them regardless of who does it, doesnt count as support so far as I know but that of course is up to the moderators.

 

I agree jj. Seems that once again shots are taken at people that don't fall in line with "I had an affair. It was the best thing in my life. Now that it is over, I am heartbroken and will never heal. I hate my life. Poor me".

 

Someone wants to be in an affair for years and year - yippee. Someone doesn't - yippee. We each decide what we want in our life. Why isn't there more support here for those that are posting about NC and the need to take charge of their life from those that continue to take shots at 'reformed' OW? And why the need to label former OW with the "reformed" title? Why the need to make up names that are meant to belittle others? If some are so unhappy here, why keep coming back?? That is what I don't get.

[fooled once]

I started the thread to ask the OW what THEY thought. What on earth is the problem with that, really?

 

But my post was in response to reformed OW's posts, not because OWs are here posting that they ARE a victim. On the whole they're not posting in that fashion, in my view. It's a bit of a myth, or not? So far most people seem able to take a considered view. There again, I'm already showing bias

 

Actually, you stated you started this thread in response to reformed OW posts. If you have a question for a specific person, why not just PM them?

 

Whiteflower, what does BBM mean? Blackberry Messenger? (This is what one poster several months ago told me it stood for, but I can't see that as making sense in your posts. This is a serious question as I have NO idea what BBM stands for. Thanks!)

[alexandria35]

I agree with this only to a point. Is the train driver responsible for the impacts and outcomes to everyone else involved in the situation when someone rushes past a mother holding a pram on the station, accidentally sending that pram under the wheels of the oncoming train? Is he driver of that train responsible for the counselling required by the brother of the baby in the pram who witnessed what happened? Is the signalman who signalled the train in to the platform responsible likewise? Both chose to cause the train to enter the station and to arrive at the platform. But I would argue that neither wittingly chose to crush the baby in the pram - that was simply an unforeseen consequence of their deliberate choices.

 

WTF?? This analogy makes absolutely no sense as obviously the person who should be held responsilble in this little story is the self important arrogant prick who pushed into the mother in his/her haste and caused the pram to go under the train. Sure they probably didn't know or mean to cause harm to the baby but drunk drivers don't mean to kill people either, still we hold them responsible. The driver nor the signalman could be held accountable unless they knowing ran the baby over when they could have taken measures to stop it, but your story reads like they were helpless to change the outcome and therefore I would argue that they are also victims of the self important prick who caused the tram to go under the train. All parties involved could probably sue him for the counselling necessary to recover from witnessing or be forced to take part in such a horrific accident.

 

Secondly I can't for the life of me see how this analogy counters the statement made by another poster that people are either unknowing victims or knowing participants.

[alexandria35]

That she chose not to see herself as a victim, when she could easily have done so. It would have been easy for her to say, "he lied to me" (which clearly did happen) or "he beat me and I was afraid, so did what he said") which clearly also happened - but she chose not to. She accepted that what happened to her was the result of her own flawed judgment, the fact that she trusted others too easily, and her habit of seeing the good in others rather than their flaws.

 

People may do things to us that we have no control over. But our response is what determines whether we become victims or not.

 

I'm glad your friend doesn't see herself as a victim because she's probably not. She was the common denominator in all of those relationships and nobody makes that many bad choices by accident.

[NoIDidn't]

Unfortunately the OP set a negative tone for this thread by characterizing previous posts in other threads as painting the MM as "big bad" and the OW as "poor ickle".

 

Oh well. I will try to help turn the thread into something more positive.

 

When I was OW as a young woman, I did feel victimized. I had no relationship experience and didn't know what to look for. But that feeling didn't last long when I knew I could walk away whenever I wanted to.

 

Having more experience in relationships now, I wouldn't feel victimized because I'm responsible for myself. I feel that OWs are volunteers, not victims. Especially if they know that the man that is pursuing them, and that they actively pursue back, is married.

[MissBee]

I'm glad your friend doesn't see herself as a victim because she's probably not. She was the common denominator in all of those relationships and nobody makes that many bad choices by accident.

 

I've come to learn that scary but liberating truth!

[White Flower]

I suspect it is MUCH easier for a single gal with a faithful single guy not interested in a piece of paper than for a single gal relegated to servicing a married guy just to get him to spend time with her.

 

Like I said, I'm not a victim, so go ahead and prove the OP's point with these pointless remarks.

[jj33]

Actually, you stated you started this thread in response to reformed OW posts. If you have a question for a specific person, why not just PM them?

Well it looks like BB hasnt responded and that is clearly who this thread was directed towards... what a waste eh?

[jj33]

Like I said, I'm not a victim, so go ahead and prove the OP's point with these pointless remarks.

 

Her remarks dont prove the Ops point at all. They are simply remarks. And if someone feels that they have been taken advantage of, who are you or SG or anyone else to judge with words like poor ickle? Its just meansprited

[Silly_Girl]

Well it looks like BB hasnt responded and that is clearly who this thread was directed towards... what a waste eh?

 

What on EARTH are you taking about??! The thread was not directed at a person. Jeez!

 

Plotless, the lot of you.

[Silly_Girl]

I agree jj. Seems that once again shots are taken at people that don't fall in line with "I had an affair. It was the best thing in my life. Now that it is over, I am heartbroken and will never heal. I hate my life. Poor me".

 

Someone wants to be in an affair for years and year - yippee. Someone doesn't - yippee. We each decide what we want in our life. Why isn't there more support here for those that are posting about NC and the need to take charge of their life from those that continue to take shots at 'reformed' OW? And why the need to label former OW with the "reformed" title? Why the need to make up names that are meant to belittle others? If some are so unhappy here, why keep coming back?? That is what I don't get.

 

This is just bizarre. Really strange. The post was not complex yet seems to have really mashed some people's heads!!! Yet others seem to have no problem understanding it. Interesting stuff.

[Silly_Girl]

Unfortunately the OP set a negative tone for this thread by characterizing previous posts in other threads as painting the MM as "big bad" and the OW as "poor ickle".

 

Oh well. I will try to help turn the thread into something more positive.

 

When I was OW as a young woman, I did feel victimized. I had no relationship experience and didn't know what to look for. But that feeling didn't last long when I knew I could walk away whenever I wanted to.

 

Having more experience in relationships now, I wouldn't feel victimized because I'm responsible for myself. I feel that OWs are volunteers, not victims. Especially if they know that the man that is pursuing them, and that they actively pursue back, is married.

 

When you say you were victimised, were you set up? Is that how you feel? Was there a plan of sorts to snare you, and it worked? Or was it more that your lack of experience caused poor decisions and you were a victim of the situation as opposed to the man, if you see what I mean.