Question faithful married women

[Eve]

At the end of the day my thoughts are with Woggles Wife. Ignoring her and whatever because of this bs isn't fair on her. If she puts up with it and acts to pacify Woggle, then yes she is a Stepford Wife by his making.

 

That's it really.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[TigerCub]

A few points Woggle:

 

1. If you feel that your mother was the initial cause of all this misery, why on earth are you still in contact with her, and why do you let her talk trash about your wife?

 

2. I'm actually surprised that you got married a 2nd time. How does a woman hater get married?

 

and finally, and most importantly, you said this:

 

I never thought people would take this thread so personally. I didn't say all women were waiting to be indoctrinated but I just wanted to know the reaction happily married and faithful women get from other women. In the circles I have run in it seems like it's almost a sin for a woman to admit she is happy in her marriage. Maybe I need to find some new circles but I didn't intend this thread to be hateful towards all women.

 

To the part in bold - maybe you're running with the wrong circles.

It seems like you're with people that do things that you find so terrible, all their actions just reinforce your hate and distrust for women, and you just keep going in the same pointless cycle.

 

Maybe its time for a more healthy group of friends.

 

Also, if you feel so strongly in your distrust of women, how does your M work? Are you constantly accusing your wife of doing **** behind your back? Or do you simply never let her leave your sight to avoid all that?

 

You say that you want to change - I think that's good, I hope that therapy will serve you well.

 

Good luck

[2sure]

I am no longer married but had no issue at all being faithful to my husband.

 

I have always had a fairly large peer group of women made up of a variety of life styles: Married, single, divorced, gay, straight, the happily married, the miserably married, the faithful, and the not.

 

I have never in my life had any of these women look down at another for choosing to be faithful to their partners. Might tell them they are stupid to stay married, might even hear they should get a bf, but Ive never heard: You dont cheat?? You fool!.

 

Ever.

[Linda9999]

I have never cheated on either of my husbands. Both of whom cheated on me. My/our friends have always looked at me as the better person and have never ever alluded to anything other than admiration towards me, with respect to the way I've handled things when they cheated.

 

It seems to me that you are only reading/seeing/hearing what you want to, what supports your rather skewed viewpoint. Did you take me up on my challenge from the other thread and go take a look at my posts?

[Stung]

I never thought people would take this thread so personally. I didn't say all women were waiting to be indoctrinated but I just wanted to know the reaction happily married and faithful women get from other women. In the circles I have run in it seems like it's almost a sin for a woman to admit she is happy in her marriage. Maybe I need to find some new circles but I didn't intend this thread to be hateful towards all women.

 

As others have pointed out before me, in this and other threads, there is something awry with the circles you run in. This often happens to people who suffered abuse early in life, whose "people pickers" have been damaged. I had some trouble with this when I was younger, myself, but those days are long over.

 

 

Answer some questions for me:

 

Do you have any idea, or give a crap, how many women reading this thread RIGHT NOW have been cheated on, while they were faithful?

 

Do you have ANY IDEA how many women witnessed their fathers cheating on their moms, and lived with the fallout from that, as children?

 

Do you have ANY IDEA how many women reading this thread right now have been physically, emotionally and / or sexually abused as children by their FATHER or by other authority figures in their lives?

 

Do you have ANY IDEA how many women reading this STUPID ASS THREAD right now have been RAPED by a MAN in their life?

 

No, you do not.

 

 

As someone who has been through multiple of the above scenarios, I have come to usually avoid Woggle's threads--although I can see that he had been making big strides in the past couple of years, and I hope he can resume that trajectory. I don't just avoid because of him, though, but the other misogynists his threads usually draw like flies. I will also say that he is actually far less offensive than some of those trolls who crap all over the Dating forum, as a general rule. I have sympathy for Woggle, although I have honestly grown tired of trying to actually help him since he is constantly sabotaging himself.

 

You turn yourself into a victim every day whenever you seek out garbage on the internet that pushes all of your buttons. Then you come on here and help spread more garbage around, garbage which probably pushes the buttons of people who are in your shoes. And around and around we go.

 

Agreed. I do wish Woggle could see this for himself.

 

Anyway I know I need to get past this hatred and I have two appointments with my therapist scheduled this week instead of one.

 

This is very good news. I hope it will help. I also saw in another thread that your therapist is recommending another kind of therapy, and I want to wish you luck with that, Woggle.

 

Many abusers and bullies are reacting to their own insecurities and fears.

 

I don't feel that you are abusing anyone here at LS, because you are not in a position of power over us. We can block you if we wish.

 

But if you were raising a daughter, and she heard you be this honest about what you feel in your heart many times over the years, you would, in fact, be abusing her. You would have become a mirror of your mother.

 

Can you see that? Can you see the cycle, and your place in it?

 

Agreed. I do think Woggle has been wise in choosing not to have children.

 

No offense, but where do you meet them?

 

Are you a prison guard?

 

Or janitor/male nurse in a mental institution?

 

Or... hell, I'm out of ideas now.

 

I have wondered this myself.

 

As for the actual OP:

 

1. No. My friends don't think it's funny or weird that I'm faithful to my husband. They're mostly married and faithful, too. They're happy for me that I'm happily married.

 

2. No.

 

And, 3. No.

 

I only know one woman who anybody ever referred to as a Stepford Wife, and that had nothing to do with her being monogamous. It was because she had been a highly independent, kind of eccentric and ambitious artist who got married, moved to the suburbs, joined the PTA, quit her job, abandoned her art career, and just kind of...submerged herself into the lives of her husband and children, completely letting go of all of her own interests and former dreams. Nobody thought that was healthy.

 

I only have one friend who has ever been a cheat. She was never married until recently, but she cheated on her boyfriends. I didn't encourage or celebrate that, I didn't envy it. Why would I? I had a wild youth, I sowed my wild oats, and I chose my husband because I love him. Anyway, this friend was actually quite troubled and had some issues which we talked about frequently. She felt she was incapable of being faithful/monogamous, and so I counseled her to try open or polyamorous relationships, or look for a guy who was into cuckolding or SOMETHING, rather than keep cheating on and hurting people. She actually just got married and she and her new husband are swingers and they're wildly happy with their lifestyle, so I'm happy for them. I think she's made some big steps up and now her relationships are honest and she's doing much better.

[Woggle]

I called my mother because she was in the path of the hurricane and I wanted to know if she was okay. No matter what she did give birth to me and I won't let her be in danger. I should have just hung up when she started to rip into my wife and I though. I knew she was okay at that point.

 

I booked the group therapy and I will see how well it goes.

[betterdeal]

I called my mother because she was in the path of the hurricane and I wanted to know if she was okay. No matter what she did give birth to me and I won't let her be in danger. I should have just hung up when she started to rip into my wife and I though. I knew she was okay at that point.

 

What stops you from telling her to go kick rocks when she verbally abuses you and your loved one? I mean, you can register your displeasure in any number of ways - your language may not be as fruity as mine - but I get the sense you fear standing up to her.

 

You know what? You don't even have to do that. You can lie through your back teeth to her if you like and agree most emphatically with whatever dribbling nonsense she throws your way. You may feel that's the best option. What matters is what you tell yourself. If you can separate what you think from what you say and, most importantly, what your mother says, you'll be a free man.

 

Think about this: why do you care at all what's going on in other people's marriages? You are not in those marriages: you are in yours. Rationally, it makes no sense to care so much about what random strangers get up in their private lives, does it?

 

It seems you're always looking for proof that what your mother says is true. But you know she talks a lot of nonsense. Patently so. If you can accept that she can't possibly know what's going on in literally billions of marriages, maybe you can drop this quest to see the world like she does.

 

You love your mother, and she did bad things. People do bad things, even the people we love. Accept that and maybe you can find some more peace with the world.

 

I booked the group therapy and I will see how well it goes.

 

Good for you.

[Woggle]

I just stumbled upon this thread and it is a perfect example of the kind of stuff that gives me major trust issues. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=286880

[betterdeal]

*bangs head on desk*

[Woggle]

*bangs head on desk*

 

Are you saying that thread is not a clear example of what I am talking about?

[thehead]

Are you saying that thread is not a clear example of what I am talking about?

 

THIS thread, this thread right here, is a clear example of why you don't seem serious about really wanting to get over this ****.

[allina]

Woggle, it's a big world out there, you can find every type of person out there if you look hard enough. If you're searching for cheaters you find cheaters, if you do a search for abusers, racists or pedophiles you will find them too. Just because a type of person can be found on the internet doesn't mean they represent a large portion of the population.

[xxoo]

Are you saying that thread is not a clear example of what I am talking about?

 

No, that isn't what you are talking about.

 

You aren't talking about the fact that some lousy women/wives exist. We all know that.

 

You are talking about women/wives in general, and typical women/wives are nothing like that.

 

Go to to OM/OW forum right now. There are countless threads about women in relationships with MARRIED MEN, who are keeping single women on the hook while they remain married, for years and years. These men exist. Does that mean that most men are like that? Hell no!

 

Do you want me to link some threads? Will it convince you that those guys represent typical husbands?

[Spark1111]

I never thought people would take this thread so personally. I didn't say all women were waiting to be indoctrinated but I just wanted to know the reaction happily married and faithful women get from other women. In the circles I have run in it seems like it's almost a sin for a woman to admit she is happy in her marriage. Maybe I need to find some new circles but I didn't intend this thread to be hateful towards all women.

 

I am happily married and would never cheat on him, although he did cheat on me.

 

I associate with and am most comfortable with women who show the same respect for marriage as I do. Statistically, that is most of us.

 

We fill sorry for cheaters and sigh for all the pain they cause their families.

They could have divorced first, no?

 

If you know women who are encouraging other women to cheat, I truly do not know what circles you are running in and why you would associate with others who do not share your values.

 

If at work, your choice is to ignore their personal lives. Outside work, find like-minded friends, couples to associate with.

 

Do you look for real life examples to PROVE your suspicions regarding women?

 

If yes, then you need to do a lot of work to understand why you feel this way and why you are stuck there.

 

Woggle, maybe it is you. So the next question is, why do you need to fuel this anger?

 

Who are you really angry at? Because their is a lot of projection of the attributes for a few women in your life onto many, almost all women you meet.

 

And I think the anger expressed on this thread is that many a supportive woman here grows weary of defending women to you.

 

This is your issue. It is time to work on it, or you can go to your grave mistrustful and denigrating half the planet.

 

That's just sad.

[betterdeal]

Are you saying that thread is not a clear example of what I am talking about?

 

I'm saying you're incredibly rude by ignoring posts directed to you.

[denise_xo]

Yes, we ALL encourage infidelity and we are ALL complete *******s and we ALL want to abuse men and we ALL just want to take advantage in our relationships. Just like ALL men are the same and there is not individual variation whatsoever. And for that reason, ALL women should be accountable to you for whatever bad behaviour a particular women has done at a particular point in history, since ALL women are bad.

 

*yawn*

 

Woggle, I genuinely used to sympathise with you but your entitlement complex has just grown way out of control.

[denise_xo]

And I think the anger expressed on this thread is that many a supportive woman here grows weary of defending women to you.

 

Absolutely. The sentiment from the OP that all women are somehow accountable to him and that it's fully legitimate for him to group women into one great category and throw a bunch of **** at them is basically just a form of abuse, which he is repeatedly justifying by reference to his mother and his ex wife. Because of those two women, all other women in the world have to stand justice for him.

[TBH]

Anyway I know I need to get past this hatred and I have two appointments with my therapist scheduled this week instead of one. It is just really hard when you have been abused for a good portion of your life by people who happen to the opposite sex not to lash out when you feel that same hatred against you even by people on the internet.

 

d'you know what Woggs, good for you for trying to change.

 

you've had a quite understandable reaction to being hurt in the past, and in order to protect yourself you conditioned your mind against women.

OK it may not have been the best way to deal with the hurt but everyone is different.

 

what you have done can be undone. Carrying around hatred is exhausting and it stops us from being truely happy in ourselves.

 

Its actually quite pointless to be angry, even with those who hurt us because they move on and probably dont even think about us anymore and we are still holding onto the pain, screwing over it and allowing it to define us. Eventually letting go of the anger is amazingly liberating and is a massive big deal and is not an easy thing to do.

 

I know you have posted many, many, many threads on here relating to your anger towards women and i have to admit, sometimes they did annoy me, but now I just see it as an amazingly huge waste of your time and wish you could let it go and move on.

 

I hope your therapy works out and maybe consider something like EMDR or CBT if the therapy you are having is not working for you in the end.

 

i'm choosing not to get involved with the actual question of this thread anymore because its totally pointless.

Edited September 13, 2011 by TBH

[Woggle]

I acknowledge that on some subconscious level I do seek out things that fuel my hatred. It's not like I go home wanting to seek out misandrist stuff but I see one thing and then I am looking at another and before I know it a few hours have passed and I am just fuming over the gender wars.

[betterdeal]

You ARE the gender wars.

[Woggle]

You ARE the gender wars.

 

I did not create them.

[denise_xo]

I did not create them.

 

You continuously re-create them. Gender wars are not some abstract cloud hanging over our heads. They exist because every day, specific individuals make the decision to recreate and perpetuate them. You're one of those individuals, together with many others.

[xxoo]

I did not create them.

 

No, you fuel them---you fan the flames.

 

This board is full of good women, with a few extreme examples of bad ones. Do you see it that way? Or do you see the opposite?

 

I wonder what your real life community is truly like. I wonder if there are just a few, very vocal, crappy women, and you take them to represent the whole--unless you know a woman VERY well, and you can learn to trust her.

 

You can not know the minds and hearts of every woman. If you do not know her well, do you dump her in the category of "guilty until proven innocent"?

 

I simply don't believe your community is really that awful. Does your wife see it that way? Does she see pressure to cheat, and judgment for being faithful? (I'm guessing she doesn't listen to your mom....)

[Spark1111]

I acknowledge that on some subconscious level I do seek out things that fuel my hatred. It's not like I go home wanting to seek out misandrist stuff but I see one thing and then I am looking at another and before I know it a few hours have passed and I am just fuming over the gender wars.

 

This is extremely honest and a very good first step.

 

The next question is "why."

 

After you come up with that answer, ask why again.

 

Take your time, process slowly, and then ask again, why?

 

I call this the rule of 5 whys. Keep going until you get to the kernel of truth.

 

It is what a good counselor would slowly help you achieve. You will know the truth because it will appear as almost an epiphany..... not the reasons you have been telling yourself for years...those are justifications...but the real inner truth of your pain and anger.

 

And if you are lucky enough to identify it and manage it, it will set you free.

 

Why? Because anger, or pain or betrayal will no longer have power over you!

 

And you know what that means? The bad guys or gals didn't win. They didn't succeed in warping your view, making you hate, fueling your anger, keeping you down, and forcing you to live an unhappy existence.

 

Do this right, and Woggle wins.

[serial muse]

No to all three.

 

I do not personally know ONE WOMAN who thinks any of those things.

 

Your mother is certifiable, you know this, and yet you prefer to believe what she says for some reason. Your problem is no longer her; it is now you.

 

I think what you said earlier is, in fact, the most honest answer: You like taking a hit off the anger drug from time to time because it makes you feel powerful.

 

Guess what? That's what she does too. You're both addicted to anger. So, if you want to really clear yourself of her, maybe you shouldn't act like her.