Separated guy...he wasn't supposed to be a MM!

[2sunny]

it's not possible that HE can keep her from being hurt... anymore than i can. does he think he is God? or holds THAT much power over how SHE feels?

 

this is a ridiculous statement from him.

 

IF she IS hurt - that is hers... HER feelings - we are NOT responsible for how SOMEONE ELSE may feel - or not feel.

 

you are still basing your future on a man that isn't yet available. YOU have control over THAT part!

 

he sees you in his future? yep - any cake eater would.

 

IF he intends to get divorcED - he will make it happen asap! if not - you could find yourself in this same position 10 or 20 years from now = because he doesn't want the wife to be "hurt". since he is considering HER feelings over and above YOURS = his alliance shows he is still very much tied to her over you. yes, actions definitely speak louder than words!

 

look at this from the outside... with an unemotional vantage point = IF he intended to be DIVORCED - he would make it happen so he could be with YOU... but he's not done that yet.

 

his wife is still his top priority.

 

yes - i am honest - and that is what his actions tell us.

 

words mean nothing... they are designed to keep you quiet and make it "appear" that he is making you his priority - but his actions don't support that at all - quite the contrary.

 

men who intend to divorce - make it happen.

[wannabdone]

it's not possible that HE can keep her from being hurt... anymore than i can. does he think he is God? or holds THAT much power over how SHE feels?

 

this is a ridiculous statement from him.

 

IF she IS hurt - that is hers... HER feelings - we are NOT responsible for how SOMEONE ELSE may feel - or not feel.

 

you are still basing your future on a man that isn't yet available. YOU have control over THAT part!

 

he sees you in his future? yep - any cake eater would.

 

IF he intends to get divorcED - he will make it happen asap! if not - you could find yourself in this same position 10 or 20 years from now = because he doesn't want the wife to be "hurt". since he is considering HER feelings over and above YOURS = his alliance shows he is still very much tied to her over you. yes, actions definitely speak louder than words!

 

look at this from the outside... with an unemotional vantage point = IF he intended to be DIVORCED - he would make it happen so he could be with YOU... but he's not done that yet.

 

his wife is still his top priority.

 

yes - i am honest - and that is what his actions tell us.

 

words mean nothing... they are designed to keep you quiet and make it "appear" that he is making you his priority - but his actions don't support that at all - quite the contrary.

 

men who intend to divorce - make it happen.

 

 

AMEN!!! and totally spot on, with all your points.

 

I have said.... I have had many friends and known people who have simply walked out with the clothes on their backs, just so they could have the peaceful life they wanted. They were willing to give everything to their stbx, and even paid way more than they should for child support, and because THEY WANTED A DIVORCE. When someone does want something...they will make it happen, no matter what. When a man loves a woman, its noticable. When he doesn't, its noticable. When he wants out, he gets out. When he wants to stay, he stays. They really are very simple creatures.

[carhill]

Yeah, even though I might be described as frustratingly complex (my exW said that), men really are simple creatures in the final analysis. When we chose a path, we walk it with vigor and conviction.

[wannabdone]

Yeah, even though I might be described as frustratingly complex (my exW said that), men really are simple creatures in the final analysis. When we chose a path, we walk it with vigor and conviction.

 

 

I think most men are described by women as being frustratingly complex. I think that is probably because of their (for the most part) lack or inability to communicate effectively or at all. Thus, making us want to pull our hair (and often their hair as well) OUT!!!

 

But, essentially at the end of the day....what a man wants, he goes after. And for the most part you can see a mans feelings and emotions through his actions.

[Severely Unamused]

Yeah, even though I might be described as frustratingly complex (my exW said that), men really are simple creatures in the final analysis. When we chose a path, we walk it with vigor and conviction.

 

Thank God for that!

 

I think that is probably because of their (for the most part) lack or inability to communicate effectively or at all. Thus, making us want to pull our hair (and often their hair as well) OUT!!!

 

Indeed, I am usually quite blunt. It simplifies things.

 

I'd recommend it as long as you aren't being outright rude.

[SunsetRed]

In our jurisdiction, mediation is a generally non-adversarial process of reaching an amicable settlement, which is then reduced to legal language and becomes the basis of the judgment the court essentially 'rubber stamps', presuming legal requirements are met. It's one pathway to divorce. It can be used during either a contested or uncontested divorce. We went uncontested to save on filing fees and service fees and lawyer's fees since, for us, the process was predominantly amicable.

 

Thanks Carhill, for the info which I'm sure is helpful for many. I wasn't aware that mediation could have different uses and meanings depending on what state/jurisdiction one live in so my apologies to LMT for my wrong advice.

 

Also, I wish the best for you, LMT. A legal separation is a lot more substancial than just a mere declaration of "we're separated" that many MMs use.

[Love Me Tender]

In our jurisdiction, mediation is a generally non-adversarial process of reaching an amicable settlement, which is then reduced to legal language and becomes the basis of the judgment the court essentially 'rubber stamps', presuming legal requirements are met. It's one pathway to divorce. It can be used during either a contested or uncontested divorce. We went uncontested to save on filing fees and service fees and lawyer's fees since, for us, the process was predominantly amicable.

This is also the case here. They had found that using separate lawyers was too expensive and since they've agreed on the last few assets on their own why continue to use two lawyers who will fight over money? Another positive about this route is the lawyer who represents both parties is the only one to go before the judge so my boyfriend nor his W will have to miss work to appear in court.

 

Thanks Carhill, for the info which I'm sure is helpful for many. I wasn't aware that mediation could have different uses and meanings depending on what state/jurisdiction one live in so my apologies to LMT for my wrong advice.

 

Also, I wish the best for you, LMT. A legal separation is a lot more substancial than just a mere declaration of "we're separated" that many MMs use.

 

Thank you sunsetred. I'm feeling a lot better since last week!

[Love Me Tender]

it's not possible that HE can keep her from being hurt... anymore than i can. does he think he is God? or holds THAT much power over how SHE feels?

 

this is a ridiculous statement from him.

 

IF she IS hurt - that is hers... HER feelings - we are NOT responsible for how SOMEONE ELSE may feel - or not feel.

 

you are still basing your future on a man that isn't yet available. YOU have control over THAT part!

 

he sees you in his future? yep - any cake eater would.

 

IF he intends to get divorcED - he will make it happen asap! if not - you could find yourself in this same position 10 or 20 years from now = because he doesn't want the wife to be "hurt". since he is considering HER feelings over and above YOURS = his alliance shows he is still very much tied to her over you. yes, actions definitely speak louder than words!

 

look at this from the outside... with an unemotional vantage point = IF he intended to be DIVORCED - he would make it happen so he could be with YOU... but he's not done that yet.

 

his wife is still his top priority.

 

yes - i am honest - and that is what his actions tell us.

 

words mean nothing... they are designed to keep you quiet and make it "appear" that he is making you his priority - but his actions don't support that at all - quite the contrary.

 

men who intend to divorce - make it happen.

No 2sunny he doesn't think he's God he just cares about her feelings. I think it's admirable that he cares for the feelings of the mother of his children. When she is in a depressed state which can go for long periods her kids are affected and those are his kids too so why wouldn't he care? I admire him for it. You assume much by thinking that he puts her feelings above mine he never said that and I don't see evidence of him showing that, can you point that out? You also assume there is an alliance between them but that "alliance" was destroyed when she kicked him out of the bedroom 5 years ago. Caring is not indicative of an alliance in my opinion it's just not enough.

 

He sure seems available when he's with me every day and every night, whether on a date or in each other's bed, or out with all of our friends or with his parents and kids or whether we're on vacation together. And if I exercise my "control" over that and leave him alone then I lose all the investment I've put in and leave a vacancy for the next girl and I'm not about to do that because I love him too much.

 

Please forgive me for not knowing all the acronyms and innuendo here but isn't a cake eater someone who sleeps with both the spouse and the new person in their life? He hasn't slept with her in 5 years so by definition I would assume he's not a cake eater. And why would any man divorce "asap"? I think it's mighty admirable that he gave it every shot and took his time thinking long and hard before divorcing. This tells me he would struggle long and hard before divorcing me!

 

So far you have not really convinced me that his STBXW is his top priority. Why would you rely on so much assumption before posting?

[Love Me Tender]

Hey LMT just wanted to encourage you a bit, not that I can predict your future or anything. During a long breakup with MM I saw a SG (separated guy/single guy) and it was a little cause for concern for me, only I was still deeply in love with MM even if I was trying to stuff it all down and give a new guy a shot.

 

 

Anyway, when I realized I still loved MM and he wanted to reconcile I had a talk with the SG and we decided to end our R. He was also separated a very long time and when I read your story I saw so many similarities. He is now divorced and quite happily engaged already, so it does and can happen. I'm really not sure how a couple goes 5 years without daily bonding, talking, sex, holidays, and so on without doing some major damage to the R--the intimacy would be killed and hardly revivable.

 

 

Hope this helps a little. Hang in there.

Thank you whiteflouer I so needed this, it's so very helpful to have someone who relates. I too cannot understand how an intimate bond can survive after so long of a separation.

[2sunny]

No 2sunny he doesn't think he's God he just cares about her feelings. I think it's admirable that he cares for the feelings of the mother of his children. When she is in a depressed state which can go for long periods her kids are affected and those are his kids too so why wouldn't he care? I admire him for it. You assume much by thinking that he puts her feelings above mine he never said that and I don't see evidence of him showing that, can you point that out? You also assume there is an alliance between them but that "alliance" was destroyed when she kicked him out of the bedroom 5 years ago. Caring is not indicative of an alliance in my opinion it's just not enough.

 

He sure seems available when he's with me every day and every night, whether on a date or in each other's bed, or out with all of our friends or with his parents and kids or whether we're on vacation together. And if I exercise my "control" over that and leave him alone then I lose all the investment I've put in and leave a vacancy for the next girl and I'm not about to do that because I love him too much.

 

Please forgive me for not knowing all the acronyms and innuendo here but isn't a cake eater someone who sleeps with both the spouse and the new person in their life? He hasn't slept with her in 5 years so by definition I would assume he's not a cake eater. And why would any man divorce "asap"? I think it's mighty admirable that he gave it every shot and took his time thinking long and hard before divorcing. This tells me he would struggle long and hard before divorcing me!

 

So far you have not really convinced me that his STBXW is his top priority. Why would you rely on so much assumption before posting?

 

i say it mainly because he's not divorced. he will be - when he's ready. in the meantime you should be dating single men and doing what makes you happy.

 

when his W is depressed - even if he is divorced - he can step up the care for his kids... that shouldn't change - but he doesn't need to be married to look after his children.

 

 

men who intend to get divorced - do so.

 

when he wants to - he will.

 

there's no assumption in any of that - he has shown evidence that he's not taking action on getting a D finalized right now. his actions tell everything - his words mean nothing.

[Love Me Tender]

i say it mainly because he's not divorced. he will be - when he's ready. in the meantime you should be dating single men and doing what makes you happy.

 

when his W is depressed - even if he is divorced - he can step up the care for his kids... that shouldn't change - but he doesn't need to be married to look after his children.

 

 

men who intend to get divorced - do so.

 

when he wants to - he will.

 

there's no assumption in any of that - he has shown evidence that he's not taking action on getting a D finalized right now. his actions tell everything - his words mean nothing.

I'm sorry 2sunny I'm still not seeing how your not seeing his pushing for final asset splitting meetings and getting her to agree on an uncontested D as not showing evidence as progress. And what makes me happy is being with him why would I start seeing new men now? I won't do that until I know we just can't work things out and right now it looks like we can.

[2sunny]

I'm sorry 2sunny I'm still not seeing how your not seeing his pushing for final asset splitting meetings and getting her to agree on an uncontested D as not showing evidence as progress. And what makes me happy is being with him why would I start seeing new men now? I won't do that until I know we just can't work things out and right now it looks like we can.

 

so decide on a time limit for YOURSELF then - so that you don't waste years waiting and waiting for the D to be final.

 

he's so intent on NOT hurting HER through all of this - but has he also considered how he may be hurting YOU?

 

by dating you prematurely - he did hurt you - by not being divorced (past tense) FIRST - before dating you - now you DO stand a chance of being hurt if this goes on and on because he's worried about HER.

 

he's divorcing her - if it's OVER - he should be concerned also about who else he's causing harm to along the way - or else he should get honest and just stay married if he intends to do this when she won't feel hurt ---> there will never be THAT time when she won't feel hurt! divorce causes pain... even when both parties agree it's best to end things.

 

i don't think he's being honest ---> just saying it because my gut is screaming that you will be disappointed.

 

protect yourself.

[Love Me Tender]

so decide on a time limit for YOURSELF then - so that you don't waste years waiting and waiting for the D to be final.

 

he's so intent on NOT hurting HER through all of this - but has he also considered how he may be hurting YOU?

 

by dating you prematurely - he did hurt you - by not being divorced (past tense) FIRST - before dating you - now you DO stand a chance of being hurt if this goes on and on because he's worried about HER.

 

he's divorcing her - if it's OVER - he should be concerned also about who else he's causing harm to along the way - or else he should get honest and just stay married if he intends to do this when she won't feel hurt ---> there will never be THAT time when she won't feel hurt! divorce causes pain... even when both parties agree it's best to end things.

 

i don't think he's being honest ---> just saying it because my gut is screaming that you will be disappointed.

 

protect yourself.

I'm sorry, but since we don't even know each other personally I don't know how you can be so invested as having your "gut screaming" regarding my issue but I give you points for effort.

 

And again I don't see why your assuming that his wanting to ease her pain is any more of a concern to him than easing mine. In fact we have seemed to move on from this and things are going very well.

[Lucky_One]

His W actually initiated the D and she also tried turning the kids against him which hurt him immensely, but he was able to win his girl over (the other child didnt fall for it) and them convince his W that wasn't the way to go. She is the one who insisted on separate bedrooms 5 years ago and him finally moving out of their house. He moved out, lost weight and got healthy and quit trying to work things out with her and she must have become mad at this and wants him back now.

 

I don't know how a man can forgive a woman who caused them to lose 5 years when he tried so hard all along. Who goes back after that?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, only first 2 pages and the last. So this could already be mentioned.

 

You keep emphasizing five years. It wasn't five years of separation. It has been 2 years of separation. I don't think you can take anyone's word for where he slept for the first 3 years.

 

But what was important is that he tried for 3 years to salvage the relationship. He tried so hard, because he didn't want to lose her, lose the marriage, or get a divorce. She finally insisted he move out, so he did.

 

NOWHERE are you showing a man who 1) wanted separate bedrooms 2) wanted to move out 3) wanted a divorce. You are showing a man who reluctantly went along with what his wife wanted.

 

And now she says she wants him back.

 

And whether his kids, parents or friends adore you or not, they are not going to say "Oh Dad, forget Mom. We like Sally so much more, and it will be neat having to dash from house to house on Christmas and divide our time for holidays and having to worry about if Sally should sit with Mom on the front pew when we get married."

 

You said today that things are now great between you. I assume this means that he has gone ahead and pressed ahead with signing the papers and his D is scheduled for trial? (I will admit that that the last page here (page 5) of your responses read like you are trying to excuse your BF's behavior at all costs. Beware of that.)

[Love Me Tender]

I haven't read the whole thread, only first 2 pages and the last. So this could already be mentioned.

 

You keep emphasizing five years. It wasn't five years of separation. It has been 2 years of separation. I don't think you can take anyone's word for where he slept for the first 3 years.

 

But what was important is that he tried for 3 years to salvage the relationship. He tried so hard, because he didn't want to lose her, lose the marriage, or get a divorce. She finally insisted he move out, so he did.

 

NOWHERE are you showing a man who 1) wanted separate bedrooms 2) wanted to move out 3) wanted a divorce. You are showing a man who reluctantly went along with what his wife wanted.

 

And now she says she wants him back.

 

And whether his kids, parents or friends adore you or not, they are not going to say "Oh Dad, forget Mom. We like Sally so much more, and it will be neat having to dash from house to house on Christmas and divide our time for holidays and having to worry about if Sally should sit with Mom on the front pew when we get married."

 

You said today that things are now great between you. I assume this means that he has gone ahead and pressed ahead with signing the papers and his D is scheduled for trial? (I will admit that that the last page here (page 5) of your responses read like you are trying to excuse your BF's behavior at all costs. Beware of that.)

I am astonished at the degree to which the LS residents who are non OP, not that I am either, try so hard to convince new posters that all men are liars. I haven't been here very long but I do recognize this sad behavior and if I were a man I would be infuriated!

 

My boyfriend did in fact try to save his M in the beginning, long before he met me. I call that admirable. I know they slept in separate rooms because one of her bone of contentions was that he insisted on keeping the master bedroom and she took the spare room. Who comes up with stories like these?

 

My best friend has been separated from her H for two years, she is in the bedroom and he is in the basement. You don't have to believe me that they are in fact separated, but you should probably believe in the idea that many separated couples are in fact separated even if they reside at the same residence. For that I have no problem sticking with the 5 year separation statement. Besides my general belief my boyfriend has a lot of resentment about those first 3 years when he was trying so hard so I can't help but believe him. Another reason I believe him is how amorous he is. When I tease him for needing seconds and thirds he laughs and says he is making up for the 5 years he didn't get any!

 

The kids have already been bouncing around on holidays these last 5 years and have spent the last year in holidays with me so how do you know they wouldn't prefer spending at least some of their holidays with me? You assume way too much here, remember that they're already ticked at mom for trying to turn them against dad. And though my boyfriend was able to win his kids over he has major resentment toward STBXW for pulling that tactic.

 

I never suggested that his kids will "like Sally more" that is ridiculous. Now that u bring it up I suppose it could happen but I would never expect that.

 

He IS pressing for her to sign final docs and when they are finally divorced I will make an announcement but with the climate here I'm sure I'll hear doom and gloom rather than congratulations.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Love Me Tender

[wannabdone]

I am astonished at the degree to which the LS residents who are non OP, not that I am either, try so hard to convince new posters that all men are liars. I haven't been here very long but I do recognize this sad behavior and if I were a man I would be infuriated!

 

My boyfriend did in fact try to save his M in the beginning, long before he met me. I call that admirable. I know they slept in separate rooms because one of her bone of contentions was that he insisted on keeping the master bedroom and she took the spare room. Who comes up with stories like these?

 

My best friend has been separated from her H for two years, she is in the bedroom and he is in the basement. You don't have to believe me that they are in fact separated, but you should probably believe in the idea that many separated couples are in fact separated even if they reside at the same residence. For that I have no problem sticking with the 5 year separation statement. Besides my general belief my boyfriend has a lot of resentment about those first 3 years when he was trying so hard so I can't help but believe him. Another reason I believe him is how amorous he is. When I tease him for needing seconds and thirds he laughs and says he is making up for the 5 years he didn't get any!

 

The kids have already been bouncing around on holidays these last 5 years and have spent the last year in holidays with me so how do you know they wouldn't prefer spending at least some of their holidays with me? You assume way too much here, remember that they're already ticked at mom for trying to turn them against dad. And though my boyfriend was able to win his kids over he has major resentment toward STBXW for pulling that tactic.

 

I never suggested that his kids will "like Sally more" that is ridiculous. Now that u bring it up I suppose it could happen but I would never expect that.

 

He IS pressing for her to sign final docs and when they are finally divorced I will make an announcement but with the climate here I'm sure I'll hear doom and gloom rather than congratulations.

 

 

LVT... You know I have stated before that I sincerely hope this works out for you. I always say I am an advocate for love.

 

When you are in the middle of the raw emotions, it is sometimes to see things with 100% clarity. I read LO's quote, I didn't find it all that offensive. Now, if I was going through this, I can see how you get irritated with people calling the person you love a liar. Natural defense sets in. I think it is more so just trying to help you keep your feet planted on the ground, all the while as you reach for the stars. I have been in NC for 5 weeks, the hardest thing I have done. I have loved this man for many years. But, as much as I love him, I have accepted he does lies. And you know what...who doesn't? But it is cautionary when someone can uphold a double life. You can agree with that? Doesn't mean you love him less, just means you see things as how they are.

 

To your point of seperated couples living in the same home. Yes, they do. As a matter of fact there was an article I read a couple of months ago, on how the number of divorces have decreased, and couples are now seperated while still living together (for long periods) of time, have become more prodominate in the declining economony.

 

You have your mind set as to what you are going to do. Theres no changing that. Just make sure you try your best to see things with clairity. And keep your feet planted.

 

I wish you the best!

[Love Me Tender]

LVT... You know I have stated before that I sincerely hope this works out for you. I always say I am an advocate for love.

 

When you are in the middle of the raw emotions, it is sometimes to see things with 100% clarity. I read LO's quote, I didn't find it all that offensive. Now, if I was going through this, I can see how you get irritated with people calling the person you love a liar. Natural defense sets in. I think it is more so just trying to help you keep your feet planted on the ground, all the while as you reach for the stars. I have been in NC for 5 weeks, the hardest thing I have done. I have loved this man for many years. But, as much as I love him, I have accepted he does lies. And you know what...who doesn't? But it is cautionary when someone can uphold a double life. You can agree with that? Doesn't mean you love him less, just means you see things as how they are.

 

To your point of seperated couples living in the same home. Yes, they do. As a matter of fact there was an article I read a couple of months ago, on how the number of divorces have decreased, and couples are now seperated while still living together (for long periods) of time, have become more prodominate in the declining economony.

 

You have your mind set as to what you are going to do. Theres no changing that. Just make sure you try your best to see things with clairity. And keep your feet planted.

 

I wish you the best!

Thanks for that wannabedone. Your post resonates with honesty and clarity and caution and I agree with all of those things. I just think it's sad when I see so many women jumping to the conclusion that all men are liars. It makes me sad because I am sure these women are damaged beyond all repair by the men in their lives. But there are some good men left on this planet.

[wannabdone]

One thing I have learned is to handle each situation objectively. All A's carry the same undertones, but there are differences. I don't see it wrong that someone says he's lying or run. Because he is lying... and not knowing all the circumstances and really anyone should run from a MM.... No?

Knowing all the heart ache you have been through....would you advise someone to enter an A? Probably not. Just like I wouldn't.

 

I'm glad you agree to handle things with caution. But you still didn't agree that he is a liar. You probably need to accept that one too. I had to. Doesn't mean I love xMM any less, just means I see him and all his warts and flaws. Love doesn't die if somone has warts. You just know that the person you love has those warts.

[carhill]

When I was dating as a separated man, my divorce case summary was open to any interested party. If a woman so desired (none asked specifically) I would have merely provided the docket number to her and told her how to look it up on the internet. This is how hearsay becomes verifiable fact.

 

Of course not all men lie, at least about important things like the topic here. I'm a man and take no offense from the inferences in this thread exactly because I am a man and know how men are, predominantly. I can empathize with the POV of those women who have been lied to.

 

Considering the parameters here, being legally separated, separate domiciles, children now adults and in college, there seems to be no cogent reason for either he or his estranged wife to embrace or consider reconciliation. In fact, the small issues which need to be resolved to make the legal S into D should be inconsequential legal formalities. Yet you've posted this here. You feel concerned that something larger is afoot. Your BF has not ameliorated these concerns.

 

Tell me, since posting this thread two weeks ago, what changes, if any, have you noted in your contacts with your BF? Content as well as frequency/location, etc? If it's the same as historically, then accept that. If something has changed, what? How's the divorce progressing at this juncture?

 

I recall, once my exW and I sat down for mediation, the process took about an hour to get all the relevant information identified and agreed upon, then it took about two weeks to get it boiled into legalease, signed off by my lawyer (for me) and my exW and I filed it together at the courthouse. Our 'marriage ends on xxxx' stamp occurred the following day. No hearings, no drama, just a nice blue stamp on the judgment. The mediation was free so that's why it took longer to convert it into filings.

 

If you would have been my GF during that time, I would have shared all those details with you. It's just stuff. No mystery. How's it going?

[wannabdone]

When I was dating as a separated man, my divorce case summary was open to any interested party. If a woman so desired (none asked specifically) I would have merely provided the docket number to her and told her how to look it up on the internet. This is how hearsay becomes verifiable fact.

 

Of course not all men lie, at least about important things like the topic here. I'm a man and take no offense from the inferences in this thread exactly because I am a man and know how men are, predominantly. I can empathize with the POV of those women who have been lied to.

 

Considering the parameters here, being legally separated, separate domiciles, children now adults and in college, there seems to be no cogent reason for either he or his estranged wife to embrace or consider reconciliation. In fact, the small issues which need to be resolved to make the legal S into D should be inconsequential legal formalities. Yet you've posted this here. You feel concerned that something larger is afoot. Your BF has not ameliorated these concerns.

 

Tell me, since posting this thread two weeks ago, what changes, if any, have you noted in your contacts with your BF? Content as well as frequency/location, etc? If it's the same as historically, then accept that. If something has changed, what? How's the divorce progressing at this juncture?

 

I recall, once my exW and I sat down for mediation, the process took about an hour to get all the relevant information identified and agreed upon, then it took about two weeks to get it boiled into legalease, signed off by my lawyer (for me) and my exW and I filed it together at the courthouse. Our 'marriage ends on xxxx' stamp occurred the following day. No hearings, no drama, just a nice blue stamp on the judgment. The mediation was free so that's why it took longer to convert it into filings.

 

If you would have been my GF during that time, I would have shared all those details with you. It's just stuff. No mystery. How's it going?

 

Carhill... again....always love your posts!!! Always so spot on. You need to make $ on the side C'ling people.

 

However, just as much as men lie.........so do women. And manipulate, and are selfish. I have yet to meet one person who doesn't lie. Just sayin....

[woinlove]

Thanks for that wannabedone. Your post resonates with honesty and clarity and caution and I agree with all of those things. I just think it's sad when I see so many women jumping to the conclusion that all men are liars. It makes me sad because I am sure these women are damaged beyond all repair by the men in their lives. But there are some good men left on this planet.

 

I understand you are feeling a lot of turmoil, but it is a stretch to say "so many women jumping to the conclusion that all men are liars". At any given time, it may be fewer than 5% of all men are involved in secret affairs and, yet, many of the threads on this forum deal just with such men. The majority of those men are lying to try to keep their affairs secret, perhaps lying in other ways as well. But they still represent a small fraction of men.

 

Also, when anyone speaks of a marriage in trouble or a marriage ending, they speak from their own perspective. The other spouse very often has a different perspective. Few posters here have both perspectives even when they are talking about their own troubled/ending marriage. When they are talking about someone else's marriage, they are even less likely to have both perspectives. Some posters may point out something along these lines - and it isn't necessarily saying that the husband is lying, only pointing out that reality may differ from what one has been told.

 

I usually advise one to try to stay out of a lover's marriage and/or divorce as much as possible, as I don't think it often brings happiness to involve oneself in that way. If the lover has no friend or counsellor to confide in, one may need to be a sounding board, but I still think it is preferable to encourage them to seek out a counsellor or a friend who is not romantically involved with either spouse.

 

I hope your situation turns out happy for you. I also hope you will see very few, if any, posters think all men are liars. LS has a lot of great posters with relevant experience and who are willing to share it.

[carhill]

However, just as much as men lie.........so do women. And manipulate, and are selfish. I have yet to meet one person who doesn't lie. Just sayin....

Correct. We all have our moments of dishonesty, whether covertly or overtly. The work is getting to the truth about the facets of this relationship which are important to the OP.

 

She asked in her OP what the chances were of her BF and his estranged wife reconciling. Now, if everything she has shared with us is verifiable fact, rather than hearsay, I'd say the chances are quite small. Had she actually had personal contact with his estranged wife and that contact was positive, I'd say even smaller. On that matter, reconciliation, given what has been shared, I remain undecided, with a slight lean towards clear and healthy D.

 

I will state one final concern. Reading that this gentleman is now on his third girlfriend in the five years he's been 'separated', it occurs to me that he's had inadequate personal space to process the death of a quite long marriage which includes now adult children. Perhaps he has stuffed that grief down or received counseling for it. I'm unclear on that part. In any event, grief is a part of divorce, at least for myself and any man I've ever known to go through it. We hurt. Women don't see that side of us sometimes because we hide it.

 

OP, my apologies for missing this nuance if shared, but did your BF go through any IC or MC during the marriage and/or separation process. Has he had any form of counseling? If so, what?

[woinlove]

Just saw your post about your own divorce, carhill. Excellent post.

[wannabdone]

Correct. We all have our moments of dishonesty, whether covertly or overtly. The work is getting to the truth about the facets of this relationship which are important to the OP.

 

She asked in her OP what the chances were of her BF and his estranged wife reconciling. Now, if everything she has shared with us is verifiable fact, rather than hearsay, I'd say the chances are quite small. Had she actually had personal contact with his estranged wife and that contact was positive, I'd say even smaller. On that matter, reconciliation, given what has been shared, I remain undecided, with a slight lean towards clear and healthy D.

 

I will state one final concern. Reading that this gentleman is now on his third girlfriend in the five years he's been 'separated', it occurs to me that he's had inadequate personal space to process the death of a quite long marriage which includes now adult children. Perhaps he has stuffed that grief down or received counseling for it. I'm unclear on that part. In any event, grief is a part of divorce, at least for myself and any man I've ever known to go through it. We hurt. Women don't see that side of us sometimes because we hide it.

 

OP, my apologies for missing this nuance if shared, but did your BF go through any IC or MC during the marriage and/or separation process. Has he had any form of counseling? If so, what?

 

 

that is a great post!

[Love Me Tender]

When I was dating as a separated man, my divorce case summary was open to any interested party. If a woman so desired (none asked specifically) I would have merely provided the docket number to her and told her how to look it up on the internet. This is how hearsay becomes verifiable fact.

 

Of course not all men lie, at least about important things like the topic here. I'm a man and take no offense from the inferences in this thread exactly because I am a man and know how men are, predominantly. I can empathize with the POV of those women who have been lied to.

 

Considering the parameters here, being legally separated, separate domiciles, children now adults and in college, there seems to be no cogent reason for either he or his estranged wife to embrace or consider reconciliation. In fact, the small issues which need to be resolved to make the legal S into D should be inconsequential legal formalities. Yet you've posted this here. You feel concerned that something larger is afoot. Your BF has not ameliorated these concerns.

 

Tell me, since posting this thread two weeks ago, what changes, if any, have you noted in your contacts with your BF? Content as well as frequency/location, etc? If it's the same as historically, then accept that. If something has changed, what? How's the divorce progressing at this juncture?

 

I recall, once my exW and I sat down for mediation, the process took about an hour to get all the relevant information identified and agreed upon, then it took about two weeks to get it boiled into legalease, signed off by my lawyer (for me) and my exW and I filed it together at the courthouse. Our 'marriage ends on xxxx' stamp occurred the following day. No hearings, no drama, just a nice blue stamp on the judgment. The mediation was free so that's why it took longer to convert it into filings.

 

If you would have been my GF during that time, I would have shared all those details with you. It's just stuff. No mystery. How's it going?

Carhill I am very impressed with the time and effort you have put into your posts. Thank you!

 

My boyfriend definitely has improved the atmosphere for me. Not only has he taken care of my needs and put me first he's also opened up about the episode that brought me here. He said that her breaking down and crying was unusual for her because she's not prone to showing emotions. Also, he wanted to use his lawyer for mediation instead of hers because one, he feels his lawyer is good but two, he'd given up so many things to speed up the end but she still wants to use her lawyer. Well this week he decided to go ahead and agree to use her lawyer and hopefully that will make her happy. Now that he's given up the final remaining assets one being a timeshare and he's agreed to use her lawyer as their sole mediator things will be wrapping up quickly.

 

I have not asked him to show me docket numbers because I trust him. I have however seen his paychecks which show deductions for CS/SS which means child support/spousal support so I know the separation is legal.

 

I have overheard many conversations between them and they've always seemed pretty civil. I have great respect for her and I sense that she feels that way about me too. Their kids adore me and I get the sense there is no bad talking when they go home.

 

I really think what happened two weeks ago was that my boyfriend witnessed a rare emotional moment and plea to save their M and it caught him off guard. Coupled with the fact that she refused to use his lawyer if he proceeded with the D he felt doubly bad. But since he's giving in I think this will speed things up so he can be done with all this and move on with the life he wants for himself.

 

My boyfriend dated a lot, but only had a couple of steady girlfriends in the last two years. Trust me, he's been around the block!

 

Regarding counseling they did go to MC together. I guess it didn't work though. No IC but he seems to be adjusting well. He is very close to his/our friends and they all looked out for him early on. I adore his friends which are now my friends. I think we are going to be fine. Thanks again for all of your sound advice carhill.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Love Me Tender