Partner of an adult child abuse survivor.

[Daremo_06]

Hi all,

 

I have been in a relationship with a woman for the past 3 years and we recently have taken a step back in our relationship where she has moved out and we are currently calling ourselves friends.

 

During conversation over this past weekend, she told me she has realized a lot of the demons she thought she had put to rest are still haunting her. She was emotionally and physically abused by her father. She may even have been sexually abused, I haven't asked that question yet. One of the things she said was that she can't trust men. I want to support this woman as much as possible and am willing to do whatever I can to help her grow and recover. If that means her and I end up always just as friends, then I will accept that.

 

I was hoping to find some suggested reading not only for her, but for me as well, so I can gain some understanding of what it is she is battling with and what I can do to support her and help her with this.

 

I did some searching and I found a book recommended that is called Toxic Parents. I also had suggested going to Al-A-Non meetings which she is willing to do. What are some other good online resources or books for this, I have searched and there is so much material out there and I also do not know if sexual abuse played a part in things or not, which I would imagine make a big difference?

 

Suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Rob

 

After reading through some of the posts in the forum, I want to add that I have done a good deal of self-improvement work myself, anger management, some 12step work, some work with REB therapy (Albert Ellis), and lots of therapy in general. I know you can not help someone that does not to be helped and I can not save this woman from anything. I want to be a loving, supporting, caring, friend and partner to her.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Daremo_06
adding on at the end.

[Downtown]

She was emotionally and physically abused by her father. She may even have been sexually abused,... she can't trust men.

Rob (aka Daremo), I fell in love with a woman who had been abused sexually by her dad for several years during childhood. We got married but eventually divorced after I spent 15 years -- and a small fortune -- taking her to six different psychologists and two MCs, all to no avail. She suffers from BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Both of her sisters, who also were abused, also have strong BPD traits.

 

I therefore suggest you read my description of such traits in Rebel's thread so you have some idea of the nine red flags to look out for. These behavioral traits include, for example, a strong fear of abandonment, inability to trust, and black-white thinking (i.e., categorizing everyone as "all good" or "all bad"). My posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735.

 

Significantly, most abused children grow up without developing BPD. Hence, your GF's abusive childhood -- by itself -- does NOT imply she has strong BPD traits. Yet, that abuse greatly raised her risk for developing it. This is why 70% of BPDers (those having strong BPD traits) report having been abused or abandoned in childhood. If you find that my discussion of such traits rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss them with you and point you to excellent books and free online resources. Take care, Rob.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Downtown

[Mystique2011]

Hi Darem,

 

It's great that you want to support this woman, and are willing to accept if friendship is the right thing to do. It's very brave and commendable for you to seek therapy and read books.

 

This is my opinion as an abuse survivor. It's great to have a partner that empathizes, but I don't like it when my partner tries to my savior or my therapist. The healing work is my responsibility and my therapist guides the path. Some boyfriends try to "fix everything" and be the hero, but that ends up not working. Both partners end up getting frustrated, and the relationship doesn't work out.

 

If she's not ready to trust men, that's going to affect the relationship. I think it's best work on those demons before being ready to love someone. I also appreciate when my partner just lets me be, if I'm having an upset feeling or a bad day. I don't need anybody to "make my feelings go away", but just to listen and be patient.

 

 

Rob-Even though someone doesn't have full-blown BPD, some people can still have a few traits here and there. I've looked like a borderline in my younger years, but I was able to work on it.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Mystique2011

[Breezy Trousers]

Hi Darem,

 

It's great that you want to support this woman, and are willing to accept if friendship is the right thing to do. It's very brave and commendable for you to seek therapy and read books.

 

This is my opinion as an abuse survivor. It's great to have a partner that empathizes, but I don't like it when my partner tries to my savior or my therapist. The healing work is my responsibility and my therapist guides the path. Some boyfriends try to "fix everything" and be the hero, but that ends up not working. Both partners end up getting frustrated, and the relationship doesn't work out.

 

If she's not ready to trust men, that's going to affect the relationship. I think it's best work on those demons before being ready to love someone. I also appreciate when my partner just lets me be, if I'm having an upset feeling or a bad day. I don't need anybody to "make my feelings go away", but just to listen and be patient.

 

 

Rob-Even though someone doesn't have full-blown BPD, some people can still have a few traits here and there. I've looked like a borderline in my younger years, but I was able to work on it.

 

Here, here! My experience verbatim. Mystique, except I didn't have much luck with traditional therapy -- I was led to a different path for my own healing. My sisters had their own ways out, too.

 

(Downtown, illuminating post, as always! I'm so grateful to you for raising public awareness on BPD. I hope we see a cure for it in our lifetime. I do not believe it will come out of traditional therapy, though ....I suspect it will come out of a spiritual modality. In fact, Dialectical therapy is doing wonders with BPD, and my understanding is that it's derived from Buddhism, not traditional therapy.)

 

Rob, I'm not sure if your partner has trust issues, but Mystique touched on it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's popping up in your relationship... Here it goes:

 

My first partner was the most loving, wonderful man. Sadly, in the three years we were together, I never EVER trusted him. The more love he tried to show me, the more panicked I felt that he was trying to trick me, so the more I distrusted him. He worked even harder to get closer, and I pulled away even harder. I finally just left him. It's completely distorted thinking which is not uncommon to those who grow up in abusive homes ... The irony is that I finally found trust 10 years into my marriage to my second partner --- after he betrayed me! Turned out my "trust issue" had nothing to do with my partners' behavior. It had everything to do with my ability to trust myself and life. Life forced me into a head-on collision with that issue. My partners couldn't fix me, though God knows they each tried. Life led me to deal with it when it was time, though rigorous self inquiry and a non-dualistic forgiveness teaching. That pattern is gone now.

 

That's my point. You can't love your girlfriend into wholeness anymore than you can encourage a flower to bloom. The flower may bloom, it may not. It may bloom on your watch. It may bloom on the next guy's watch. It may not bloom at all. The point is that you have nothing to do with it blooming. The timing of healing/growth is ordained by something incomprehensible to us.

 

I've struggled with this same issue in recent years. I can't help but wonder if my occasional desire to "help" people might not be arrogance disguised as empathy. Really, why should people be different for me? Just so I can feel more comfortable in the world? Just so they can meet my expectations? Who made me God? If I believe they need my help, then am I not suggesting I'm somehow better than them? And isn't that an attack? And if I'm attacking them, am I truly helping them?

 

Maybe no one needs to be fixed in this world. Maybe the truth is that we need THEM to show us where our own disordered thinking is -- i.e., if I think you have a problem, perhaps I'm the one with the problem ... We all have free will. If I don't want to dance with you, who says I have to? There are always going to be people we'd prefer not to dance with ... But I certainly don't need to sit and judge and attack those same people, all in the spirit of helping. When I do that, I notice I'm too focused on them to focus on myself. Perhaps that's the point.

 

Another thing I've noticed about helping people is: When I believe I'm helping people, I'm usually not. My most genuine help has been completely unconscious. I can't tell you how many times people have come up to me and said, "You really helped me when you said ...." and I look blankly at them, having only the most vague recollection of what they are talking about.

 

I think you have a good, kind heart, Rob. I'm just inviting you to look more deeply at this issue .... I certainly am.

[Tayla]

You raise some valid questions Breezy and ones that are often asked of folks who's careers are in the "helping" field.....

THe difference between helping and enabling is the issue, based on your opinions. The OP sounds reasonable and is not an enabler...

His interest in "helping" is healthy...besides as the saying goes.....Help those that help themselves.

There are folks that need a HELPING hand and sincerely are humbled enough to accept it when the time comes. Mutual support is empowering. I had to learn the differences when I worked in the medical field...Helping a one armed patient get dressed is a necessity....Enabling a diabetic to sneek out and get candy is not healthy...Learn the difference and it makes all the difference in the healing or support.

[Downtown]

Downtown, illuminating post, as always! I'm so grateful to you for raising public awareness on BPD.

Breezy, thanks so much for the kind words. You should be very proud of yourself. You are one of the very few having serious trust issues to also have the self awareness and ego strength to confront that issue and learn how to manage it. Being unable to trust other people is such a debilitating thing. It is the equivalent of swimming so deeply into the ocean that you can no longer see the surface -- and no longer know which way is "up." Although there are loved ones all around you pointing the way to the surface, without the ability to trust them you have absolutely nobody to guide you. That a few folks like you are nonetheless able to find their way to the surface is a feat that continues to amaze me.

 

Because I am generally trusting of people, I can recall only one experience that gave me insight into that awful predicament. My step daughter, whom I had loved for years as my own daughter, one day announced that she was going to ask her older brother to walk her down the aisle at her upcoming marriage. Because she did not like that brother -- and had not even spoken to him in two years -- I was simply crushed. I was thinking "What am I? Chopped liver?" Whereas he was refusing to even talk to her, I had helped pay for her car and college education. I therefore was distraught that she was passing me over in favor of a "blood" relative.

 

My exW and several other family members tried to explain it to me but I was unable to believe anything they said because I knew they were just being protective of her. So I was miserable for two weeks until another step daughter called me. She was the only one in the family who I was able to trust on this issue because she was so dispassionate and cool (even cold, sometimes) in her relationships with everyone. In just two minutes, she explained that my SD's choice had nothing to do with me but, rather, her terrible pain of having to deal with the fact that her biological father did not want to attend her wedding. In that instant, I realized, "Oh, it's not about me."

 

Of course, if I had not been receptive to that one person's advice, I never would have found my way to the surface. I therefore am very sympathetic to the plight of BPDers who suffer -- week after week -- from such imagined slights and offenses that had never actually occurred. Even when a few of them manage to make it to a therapist, they usually find it impossible -- or, more accurately, too painful -- to trust that person either. I therefore applaud your remarkable achievement, Breezy. Welcome to the surface!

Edited October 29, 2011 by Downtown

[Breezy Trousers]

You raise some valid questions Breezy and ones that are often asked of folks who's careers are in the "helping" field.....

THe difference between helping and enabling is the issue, based on your opinions. The OP sounds reasonable and is not an enabler...

His interest in "helping" is healthy...besides as the saying goes.....Help those that help themselves.

There are folks that need a HELPING hand and sincerely are humbled enough to accept it when the time comes. Mutual support is empowering. I had to learn the differences when I worked in the medical field...Helping a one armed patient get dressed is a necessity....Enabling a diabetic to sneek out and get candy is not healthy...Learn the difference and it makes all the difference in the healing or support.

 

This is a very good distinction, Tayla, and probably more applicable to Rob. Thanks.

[Breezy Trousers]

Breezy, thanks so much for the kind words. You should be very proud of yourself. You are one of the very few having serious trust issues to also have the self awareness and ego strength to confront that issue and learn how to manage it. ..... I therefore applaud your remarkable achievement, Breezy. Welcome to the surface!

 

Downtown, I appreciate your kind words. I'm glad you were able to see your stepdaughter's pain. That's huge. You're able to step out of your own perspective.

 

Unfortunately, most people with BPD simply cannot.

 

Like your ex-wife, my mom had BPD. (A psychiatrist suggested to my Dad she had NPD in the late 70's, but I now think it was BPD due to the mood swings and other markers.) The BPD caused my mother to be abusive. When BPD wasn't completely overriding her, she was a good soul ... Still, my family walked on eggshells around my mother as a result of the explosive disorder (NOT as a result of my mother -- important distinction!).

 

I'm sure you're only too familiar with this yourself.

 

Anyway, looking back, I'm not sure if: 1) I was BPD; or 2) if, like Rob's girlfriend, I was experiencing symptoms common to abuse survivors; or 3) if I developed distorted thinking/emotional patterns after being around BPD my entire life. I really don't know. I didn't have mood swings, just unrelenting fear and depression.

 

I do know this: I had NO SELF AWARENESS until I had four powerful spiritual experiences in July of 1986. (Incidentally, it was quite mind-blowing & shocking to have these experiences... I had been an atheist before that time.) ... I seriously doubt I would have survived beyond July 1986 had I not had those experiences. I was in complete despair and wanting to just quietly let go ... I was tired of the constant fight/struggle, you know? After those experiences, I felt like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz: "I'm suddenly not in Kansas anymore!" lol ... And that was a very good thing. For the first time in my life, I saw we were all profoundly beloved & supported by something greater than ourselves and I was able to look at myself as an observer. I had self awareness for the first time. I was no longer so closely identified with the thoughts. July 1986 was my entry point into a long healing process.

 

Today, my WORST days are 100x better than my BEST days prior to 1986.... I was in hell before July 4, 1986. I'm not being melodramatic when I say that. I know what hell is ..... Through no fault of her own, I believe my poor mother knew what hell was, too. She never got a reprieve like I did.

 

Despite my newfound awareness, I became abusive toward my husband after we married. I was very ashamed of this but couldn't help myself. I saw I was doing the same thing to him that my mother did to me, which finally gave me compassion for her .... Intimacy in marriage terrified me because I was sure my husband would be repulsed when he saw how "bad" I was. I did everything to keep him away while staying in the relationship. But spirituality allowed me to heal that, too. In time, I learned that the shame was an illusion ... a puff of smoke ... a Wizard of Oz behind the curtain causing me to act in the most inexplicably cruel ways. Once I saw the thought system for what it was -- and learned to disengage from it -- it was gradually dismantled. It took several years of hard work, though. No overnight fix.

 

I believe everyone's true nature is kindness. This is why BPD breaks my heart. People with BPD look totally crazy and even evil to outsiders, but their behavior makes perfect sense if you were inside their minds. The person isn't crazy, but is merely identified with a distorted thought system (the Wizard of Oz running the show behind the curtain of awareness). Once the thought system is gradually chipped away & dismantled, the person is fine. It's not the person who is sick, but the thoughts that go unquestioned and run the person which are sick. Once the person disentangles him or herself from the Wizard, the Wizard drops ... disappears ... because it was never the truth about that person to begin with.

 

I suspect most spiritual disorders have shame at the root. Certainly fear.

Once you heal that, trust is pretty easy. You can't trust until that is healed.

 

I realize the experts may disagree with me. I hold fast to this anyway.

Based on my experience, I don't put faith in people with fancy initials after their name. They didn't work for me. I had to get help outside conventional forms.

The experts told me I would probably never completely heal from my childhood. Thankfully, the proved to be bulls**t -- and my husband would tell you that, because he's lived with me for ages. He knows what I used to be like and what I'm like now! .... I had to get help off the grid, in a spiritual training, and that appears to be true with a couple others who now claim they are former BPDs. I believe them. (Kiera Van Gelder found recovery in Dialectical therapy and further still in Buddhism, as outlined in her book, Buddha & The Borderline. Mine was a different spiritual path.)

 

It's rare, though. I agree with you on that, Downtown. One day I hope we're talking about treating BPD the way we'd treat a heart condition or any other human affliction. It happened with alcoholism. In 1934, alcoholics were hopeless sick degenerates/sinners. In 1935, everything shifted -- and it didn't shift because of the "experts." It shifted because of a spiritual modality, as Carl Jung predicted it would. It wasn't that there wasn't a cure for alcoholics out there. We just had a failure of imagination to treat it before 1935. And then we didn't..... But, as you and I know, even if the treatment is there, not everyone wants it. The disorder can be that destructive, tenacious and relentless. It's the disorder that is evil, not the person, but ultimately I came see that the disorder itself is illusory. The inherent goodness of the person is not. It remains. It's our true nature.

 

Once you heal from that --- and, of course, the healing is ongoing because growing in awareness/consciousness is ongoing -- you see that every human being is afflicted in some fashion or another. It's just more amplified in the person with BPD and, thus, easier to see.

 

(Rob, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread. I don't come to LS very often anymore, so it appears my ability to PM Downtown is now gone. )

Edited October 30, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[Downtown]

Rob, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread.

Not to worry, Breezy. You can't hijack what was abandoned. Rob (aka, Daremo) hasn't responded to any of the four forum members trying to help him in this thread. Instead, he has started another six threads since starting this one.

[Breezy Trousers]

Not to worry, Breezy. You can't hijack what was abandoned. Rob (aka, Daremo) hasn't responded to any of the four forum members trying to help him in this thread. Instead, he has started another six threads since starting this one.

 

Downtown, I just noticed the date of his post & see what you're referring to. Ha!