how can I win her back?

[Kispimmiday]

Àáñîëþòíî ñ Âàìè ñîãëàñåí.  ýòîì ÷òî-òî åñòü è ìíå êàæåòñÿ ýòî î÷åíü õîðîøàÿ èäåÿ. Ïîëíîñòüþ ñ Âàìè ñîãëàøóñü....

[ShatteredReality]

Ok so I am going to ask a few questions here...I was just getting ready the other day to ask how you were doing - so - thanks for the update. Even if it's not the greatest like we'd be hoping for right now.

 

Ok...why does she say you can never have sex again? Was your surgery that physically serious that it'll impair your physical abilities for a long while?

 

Have you tried giving her a hug here and there? Putting your hand gently on her shoulder or back as you pass her by in the kitchen or when saying goodnight to the kids?

 

Don't underestimate the power of physical contact. I know it has much more bearing on men than women (I've read that if a woman leans over and initiates skin to skin physical contact during and argument in a gentle fashion the mans anger decreases by something like 40% automatically. Don't know if it's true), but it's a huge factor for women as well. Being touched, reached out for - it makes us feel desired. Now, when you don't like a man, this would make a woman uncomfortable...but she's adapting to a new, gentler, kinder, you. Maybe a gentle and brief touch here or there won't be so bad?

 

Also...at this point, you're making the changes you need to make to become a better man - better husband - better father. Sit back and really consider whether or not you want forever with this woman. I am not saying give up - but I am saying you must be resolute. If you look at the negative attributes she holds as well, then if it doesn't work out you will at least have something positive to consider out of it. Just because you treated her badly for 8 years doesn't mean you deserve the same sentence. A person can learn from their mistakes and move forward. If you stay in punishment for 8 years just to make things equal you will not move forward. The way to truly show her you're improving is to treat her better, to be able to give her the better you - if she won't allow it then you cannot force yourself on her.

 

At this point I would ask her if you could come to one session with her of counseling. Tell her it's not to intrude, but that if you're a source of some of the issues she's battling, it might be good to meet together with the therapist so you can sit and discuss things together in a setting where a mediator will help you to both hear each other out a little better.

 

I am with Turnera in that - I went to IC for a time during my troubles with my H and my therapist told me to kick him out and give him a chance to grow up. She didn't say file for divorce or anything, but she definitely told me he was manipulative and controlling, that I would be better off with at least a break from him.

[c0nfuzd]

Ok so I am going to ask a few questions here...I was just getting ready the other day to ask how you were doing - so - thanks for the update. Even if it's not the greatest like we'd be hoping for right now.

 

Ok...why does she say you can never have sex again? Was your surgery that physically serious that it'll impair your physical abilities for a long while?

 

Have you tried giving her a hug here and there? Putting your hand gently on her shoulder or back as you pass her by in the kitchen or when saying goodnight to the kids?

 

Don't underestimate the power of physical contact. I know it has much more bearing on men than women (I've read that if a woman leans over and initiates skin to skin physical contact during and argument in a gentle fashion the mans anger decreases by something like 40% automatically. Don't know if it's true), but it's a huge factor for women as well. Being touched, reached out for - it makes us feel desired. Now, when you don't like a man, this would make a woman uncomfortable...but she's adapting to a new, gentler, kinder, you. Maybe a gentle and brief touch here or there won't be so bad?

 

Also...at this point, you're making the changes you need to make to become a better man - better husband - better father. Sit back and really consider whether or not you want forever with this woman. I am not saying give up - but I am saying you must be resolute. If you look at the negative attributes she holds as well, then if it doesn't work out you will at least have something positive to consider out of it. Just because you treated her badly for 8 years doesn't mean you deserve the same sentence. A person can learn from their mistakes and move forward. If you stay in punishment for 8 years just to make things equal you will not move forward. The way to truly show her you're improving is to treat her better, to be able to give her the better you - if she won't allow it then you cannot force yourself on her.

 

At this point I would ask her if you could come to one session with her of counseling. Tell her it's not to intrude, but that if you're a source of some of the issues she's battling, it might be good to meet together with the therapist so you can sit and discuss things together in a setting where a mediator will help you to both hear each other out a little better.

 

I am with Turnera in that - I went to IC for a time during my troubles with my H and my therapist told me to kick him out and give him a chance to grow up. She didn't say file for divorce or anything, but she definitely told me he was manipulative and controlling, that I would be better off with at least a break from him.

 

she says she can not be physical with me because she feels nothing for me...she doesn't love me thus no sex; she makes it as simple as that; but like I said before, sex is the least of my concerns at this point

 

I do initiate hugs here and there; and I do touch her occasionally whenever I find an opportunity, but it's always me that initiates it

 

it's only been her first IC session so I want to give her some time before I approach her about including me in there

[ShatteredReality]

she says she can not be physical with me because she feels nothing for me...she doesn't love me thus no sex; she makes it as simple as that; but like I said before, sex is the least of my concerns at this point

 

I do initiate hugs here and there; and I do touch her occasionally whenever I find an opportunity, but it's always me that initiates it

 

it's only been her first IC session so I want to give her some time before I approach her about including me in there

 

Well....keep up the physical contact, even if it's limited. It's one of the few ways you'll be able to ignite a response without her awareness.

 

I have never understood the no sex rule...so unfortunately I cannot help you at all there. Even with all of our problems I figured we had physical needs...so sex wasn't going to be off the table unless I was really ticked off in the moment or....well it was honestly going to be an option so long as we weren't completely divorced and seeing other people.

 

Yeah...I hope she has a truly supportive therapist who isn't just out for whatever the easiest advice to give may be. Keep us posted for sure...

[arratmess]

cool story bro

[c0nfuzd]

I am emotionally and psychologically exhausted.....AND it's only been 6 months

 

not knowing what she plans to do is what makes this task so daunting; waiting for things to work out is one thing, but waiting and not knowing if things will work out is another matter altogether

 

she seems so edgy at me most of the time nowadays...I am not doing anything wrong that I can tell; I ain't getting high (coming up on 6 months of sobriety), I still look after the kids and the house, I even download movies and her fave weekly show for her to watch (without me present of course)...and in the back of my head echoes: "I don't think you really love me, I don't feel it.".....this coming from a woman whose heart is not open to me, who is indifferent supposedly to me

 

I feel like a ragdoll...but I have to remember how she must have felt all these years; still, in between my moodswings and getting high, there was love, I wasn't a pri*k every second of the day....at the moment, it is a constant 24/7 of a non-loving marriage; no wonder she says she hasn't felt married for the past few months

 

ok, her second therapy session is coming up; maybe things will brighten up; thank god for the kids....they put a smile on my face when I get hit with these negative emotions....and I am also thankful for still being at home with all 3 of them....it's just so damn hard

 

oh brother....(long sigh)...staying positive staying positive

[turnera]

I think what she needs now is to see you moving on. You've been hanging around so long you have been neutered. There's no way she'll fall in love with you the way you are now.

 

Let her know you're looking for your own place and will be filing for joint custody.

[c0nfuzd]

joint custody? she doesn't want to do joint custody...she wants full custody with full visitation rights

 

and what kind of strategy is this? I know I am still useful to her right now; she has long hours at work and I fill in when she is absent; I know I still have a role at home

 

by telling her that I am looking for a place and want joint custody, will it not rattle her even more?

 

what about giving it time, and more time?

[turnera]

Let's go back to what we've discussed about men and women.

 

Women have to respect and admire their men. You've done a lot of work to show that you're undoing the past years. That's great. But she stopped loving you a long time ago. You LB'd her too much; that sucks the love out of a marriage faster than everything else combined.

 

She didn't kick you out for two reasons: she felt guilty kicking you out while you're recuperating and you made her life easier by taking care of the kids. She's made it very clear that she's not interested in you. As soon as you're up and driving yourself, she's gonna kick you out. She probably already has the papers done, just waiting.

 

So...you have ONE chance and one chance only: show her that you're not her doormat. That you respect yourself too much to be her cabana boy. And that you have just as much right to the kids as she does.

 

Right now, she isn't thinking that way. She's making plans for her life - without you. And if you suddenly start LEADING the family by telling her what you need in a marriage and what you're willing to settle for, she will listen.

 

Right now, you are beneath her literally and figuratively. Because of your guilt, you have allowed yourself to be debased. And NO woman can love that man.

 

Six months straight is long enough. Any other man would have found a way to get transportation, to not have to be dependent on her. You've tried to show her you have changed...great. Now get moving and show her WHY she should listen to you and care about you - because she might lose you.

 

Stop acting out of fear of losing her and the kids. That's the absolute WORST thing you can do.

[turnera]

joint custody? she doesn't want to do joint custody...she wants full custody with full visitation rights

So what? Is she the only parent in that house?

[c0nfuzd]

what about her therapy? what if things change? I guess I am not ready to leave because I keep looking for excuses

[c0nfuzd]

if I leave, it will look like I gave up on our marriage, and on my family...and that will play right into her hand

 

I am not the one that wants out so why should I leave?

[turnera]

if I leave, it will look like I gave up on our marriage, and on my family...and that will play right into her hand

So what? Are you letting your pride guide you?

 

I am not the one that wants out so why should I leave?

Are you in a position situationally or financially to move her out? To get a lawyer and buy her out of the house? If not, you have two choices: REMAIN her doormat, gopher, maid, babysitter, and watchman - because that's all you are at this point - or find your spine and take a move to find your self respect, which is the ONLY way she'll ever see you as a man again.

[turnera]

And what do you think you look like now, living in the basement like the red-headed child no one wants?

 

I'm not trying to be rude, just to get you thinking.

[c0nfuzd]

the kids don't want me to leave, and she doesn't know what she wants at this point (which is a far cry from a few months ago when she was convinced she wanted a D); I enjoy seeing my kids daily and even appreciate the little that I see of her

 

since she is going to therapy I want to give her more time; she has nothing to lose, she gets to keep the kids and the assets; she wins; so the fact she hasn't shown me the papers yet tells me that I just need to be more patient and learn to control my emotions; I have made it clear to her that I can leave now since my surgery is healing well and I can drive myself anywhere and am currently working

 

I don't want to make a premature decision because I know that if I leave, there is no coming back....the odds are clearly against me the minute I step out

[ShatteredReality]

Ok, so if you don't want to leave that's fine...there are other things you can do to show your independence. I have known quite a few people who have separated but stayed in the same home due to financial situations...basically you begin to live your own life and you no longer depend on the other for help.

 

If you wanted to show a separation of lives you could go out - alone or not...here we have a $3 theater. It might do you some good to go out and see a movie, get some dinner...or just go walking. Do it when she's home - it shows your independence. You can still spend lot's of time with the kids...if she asks where you're going - be vague. "I thought I'd catch a movie. It's been awhile since I went to the actual movie theater" Or "I'm just going out - I'll have my cell if anything happens with the kids". Take her out of the equation the way she has with you. You can act as if you're renting the basement - which in effect you are.

 

You do need to try to keep positive...know that showing her you have plans of your own will help. Don't go to the local bars or anything...obviously you're not turning back to drugs, so that's huge. Right now you have to get comfortable in your own skin. You haven't known YOU in a long long time my friend, it's time to figure you out. Take yourself out. Find out what you like to do...if you don't have $ you can still use the time out of the house to get out of your life without the drugs. I used to go to my favorite park and just get on the swings - go as high as I could go...it somehow made whatever was upsetting me not as bad. Find your "swing set".

[c0nfuzd]

over the weekend I went out with some old friends from highschool and I had an ok time; by the end of the night, I was still miserable because my marriage is not fixed; my mother said that I should do this more often, go out with my friends and spend more time being independent...

 

my problem with this is that the more I show that I am independent, the more W will be convinced that we no longer need to be together...we have separate lives so what's the point in being under the same roof?

 

I want to fix our marriage, doesn't this mean we should try to do things together? obviously she doesn't want to do anything together, not even for the kids' sake...she takes them everywhere without me; but I don't want to have my own separate life from them; this is what I am fighting for

 

and this business about needing space...what's the point of it exactly? how can space bring 2 people closer together? to me space creates...well. distance

[turnera]

I want to fix our marriage, doesn't this mean we should try to do things together? obviously she doesn't want to do anything together

What good does it to to want to do things together if she doesn't? Since you want it and she doesn't, you're just gonna sit on your bum all day and WISH she wanted to go out with you? That's real attractive...

 

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? I can't remember.

[c0nfuzd]

nah, got my hands on His Needs Her Needs audiobook so busy listening to it...will see if I can find this other book you mention

 

but you're right, I shouldn't just sit around for her; for now though, waiting for surgery to allow me to play sports again; that's something I always enjoyed doing and since I don't have any friends, I can certainly make time for sports...and who knows, I just might meet some new peeps this way

 

but part of me just wants to be next to her and the kids when they go out...I just want to belong in the family, I hate being pushed out of it

[turnera]

I hate being pushed out of it

Figure out WHY you're being pushed out. Concentrate on what SHE is feeling and thinking. Make that your #1 focus - every chance you get, think of ways to get conversations going, ask questions, ask OTHER people what she's told them. If you can't figure out why she's pushing you out, you have no way to fix that part.

[ShatteredReality]

At this point I think you'd have a right to stand up for yourself a little bit here too. You have put forth a lot of effort for a long time already. Yes, her head is slowly turning - she's no longer all the way out but instead she's in limbo...if you show her that you are a man that may seal the deal. Show her the strength you were afraid to show before - first of all don't allow yourself to be pushed out of your family. They are your children - her aside - they're your life. You have shown a great deal of dedication with them. You can even tell her that no matter how this thing works out or doesn't, that you need to be unified as parents. You need to be able to take the kids to the zoo together or to a museum, to attend a childs party together or throw one together...they are your link and bond - even if all else fails. She's going to have to come to terms with the fact that no matter what road she takes - you are a part of her life as long as the children are. You can show her this without being pushy about her space...you can tell her it's what's best for the kids and that the two of you don't have to be making love in public restrooms, but that civility is not an unreasonable request.

 

Continue the routine of going out, taking some time for yourself. Whether you like it or not, right now you DO have separate lives. Her seeing you sitting at home all day and all night pining for her hasn't changed her mind...so maybe seeing that you are capable of life without her will spur something inside of her to realize she needs to make a decision to either let you go and have that life without her, or to make a move to stay involved. Outside of the children, she doesn't have to know where you're going or why - so long as you're not sleeping with someone else before any divorce papers are filed. I'm not saying go out every night...but make regular time for yourself, doing something you can make peace with. If you're not up for sports yet, choose something else. Maybe you can do a water exercise class or something until you're up to snuff....or maybe you can take a class - learn something new about computers or whatever interests you...heck, you can sit around and make duct tape wallets for all it matters - just do something that gives you the YOU time to step outside of the walls of stress you have around you. And I hate to say it...but you have GOT to be at least a little pent up...so SOME type of activity would likely help a great deal. Within the boundaries of your post surgical care of course. This is an extensive recovery...when will you be cleared for at least mild or moderate activity levels?

[c0nfuzd]

she blew up at one of the kids this weekend and I tried to jump in to co-parent...boy was that a mistake...she blew up at me too.....again; by the end of that, we are now closer than ever at separating (and most likely divorce)

 

it's like all her frustrations in life at this moment are all because of me

 

she flew out this morning and we didn't even hug....she wants me out of her life so badly but she can't give me the damn papers....I just don't get that

 

she gets to keep everything (the kids, the house, the assets) so why can't she serve me?

[turnera]

Why does she get to keep everything?

[c0nfuzd]

she won't do joint custody and I don't want to fight for that; it will go to court and will drag the kids into this mess; she will bring up my past drug/verbal abuse and the fact I didn't want to have kids to begin with; plus, she is a better mother than I am a father; she is willing to give me full visitation rights

 

as for the assets, I don't care about them; this marriage is more important to me than the money; if I take 50% of everything, this will cause more hardship on her and the kids; I think I have hurt them emotionally enough over the years as it is

 

I will only take my clothes, a dish or two, and computers with me; I don't need anything else; all I will need to buy immediately is a bed and TV

 

I just can't believe this is happening to me; never in my wildest imagination did I think this could happen; I know the mistakes I did are big, but I did my best to change

[turnera]

I think you're being ridiculous. Have you always been this much of a doormat? Maybe that's why she no longer wants you. You seem to give up on everything. Think everyone else deserves more than you. Maybe that's 15 years of drugs talking, I don't know. But you CAN learn to be a better, more upstanding man so that you can become a better role model for your kids.

 

They don't need to see an amiable dad. An easy to get along with dad. They need to see an invested dad. One who fights for them. One who believes in himself.

 

Are you in therapy? You need to be.