how can I win her back?

[ShatteredReality]

Ehh, you're young yet

 

But I understand feeling like it'd be better not to have to start over again at this point. Another poster on here about the same age as you, Jstobo, might be able to give you some pointers when it comes to handling the separation side of things. He tried so very hard...in the end - you're right...if her heart isn't open to your attempts - you can't fix it completely alone.

 

I'll say this, it's good you come on here and let it out - don't keep it all inside. Reaching out for this help is really good for you - especially when you're in this transition where you don't have all that many other places to turn.

 

You can begin to reconcile with your family a bit at a time, a phone call here, an apology there...it will take time and effort, but family tends to come back around eventually.

 

When you can drive you'll be able to go out and form personal friendships so you won't feel so lonely in all of this.

 

Of course, hopefully your wife will come back around before too long - but I am very glad you made your written plan for both scenarios. And I am glad it felt good to write it down. When you find your mind going on overdrive again you can always rewrite it again...it's therapeutic.

 

It's a very good sign that you two were able to be on the same page about how to handle your childs melt down. I know that is a tough situation no matter what, and it can cause a huge argument...just so long as you come to an impasse at how to handle it and then stick together - that too is a bonding experience for parents. It will strengthen respect between the two of you to be unified on this.

 

I hope your weekend goes well!!

[c0nfuzd]

weekend did not go so well; we talked and the separation is being put into motion; I anticipate to be out by Christmas

 

she made it clear again that her feelings have not changed and will never change; she doesn't want to put in ANY effort into making this work simply because "I just don't feel it inside"....she has a lot to learn about what a marriage is and what it takes to stay in love;so much for our vows; when the going got tough, she got going and that's the truth of it; I guess I didn't even have to give up drugs lol because nothing would have changed anyways

 

she has given up and I won't stand between her desires; she wants me to leave so I will; I told her again that I want to make this work, that my heart is in this family and that I can wait for her to turn around; but she says she will never turn around; even explained her the WAW syndrome and that it can be fixed, she has no desire to fix it; everyone she knows and in the family have told her to try to make it work, yet she knows better and is going to follow her heart; doesn't matter that the kids want us together because she rationalizes "all kids want their parents together"....god forbid we do what the kids want

 

so this is it...

[c0nfuzd]

now she's flip-flopping....she says she is not sure what she wants; she says the only reason I am still in the house is because of the kids; so I said to her that we should try to fix it then, if she is doing it for the kids; but this is where she doesn't want to make sense

 

it's ok for me to stay in that putrid basement forever, as long as I take care of the kids and the house, and she doesn't have to do anything to work on our marriage; this is hard to accept; life is short and if there is no chance then what is the point? why do something half-assed? we either do it for the kids and do it properly, or we don't do it at all; matters of the heart are just so complicated; she keeps going over the past and I keep telling her that she is right about everything; I can't change the past, I can only change the present; I know I messed up badly but I know I can fix it too

 

I've tried to explain to her that we can move as slow as she wants, that the old marriage is dead and a new one can be created; but she is just so bitter that she doesn't want to do anything about anything

 

it's like she wants to have her cake and eat it too; I do all the work in this marriage in exchange for nothing

[turnera]

Are you 100% positive she doesn't have another man in her life?

[c0nfuzd]

I am not 100% sure...but judging her character (it's just not her to do that and keep me around; we have kids too and it would be so much easier to just end it if there was an OM; why drag me along?); and the fact she is accountable for most of her actions, including that I have no evidence whatsoever...I have to dismiss this as theory but I would not be surprised if there is another OM....from everything she tells me, I am the single reason for her unhappiness

 

I did mention it again that if she had another man in her life, we could end this more easily, to which she laughed and said that I really don't understand what I did....I know what I did but I also know what I am doing; I think 5 months is possibly still too little time and I should have heeded both your advice and not bring up divorce or separation talk

 

it all happened because of something unrelated and the fact I made a decision without her knowing it; her sister wanted to borrow a TV from us just for the day and my wife not being at home at the time, I said that it should be no problem; my wife was not happy with that and told me next time to check with her first; I couldn't understand what the big deal is about the decision I made; I live in the house and I think I can make the call to lend out something to her sister; wifey got quiet so I prodded as to what the problem really is; can I no longer make decisions in this house? she then tried switching the subject to whether we should turn on the heat in the house, to which I said that maybe I shouldn't make the call; she didn't like that either and that started it all

 

I need to give her more time and stop bringing up our problems; it seems that once a month I make the lapse in judgment and bring it up; it's not an argument that we have about it but I notice her frustration every time the topic comes up; and she says the same thing that there is no chance; that the longer we wait the more difficult it is on the kids; yet, she won't kick me out; I asked her if she wants me to do the papers to which she agreed; I told her I would never do it since I am not the one that wants out; it's almost as if she doesn't want the guilt to live with for giving me papers, so she is trying to drive me to it; I think it's because her family is so against her decision to end it, and she would feel more justified if I did it...sort of like "well, he decided to leave, I didn't do it"

[c0nfuzd]

this morning, just before she was to leave the house for work, she says: "btw, I do appreciate everything you do around the house and for the kids; I don't mean to come across the wrong way; I do appreciate it"....and then I bid her a good day and she left

 

I was so convinced another "but there is no chance for us" was coming at me, I started feeling uneasy and took a step back; it was obvious that I was uncomfortable at that moment; I did not say a word and just looked away

 

slept like crap last night; turning on the heat in the house means the furnace now goes off throughout the night...and boy is it loud, it wakes me up every time; but it's ok, it's worthwhile to put up with

[c0nfuzd]

my older one this morning said..."Daddy, I forgot all them bad words ya used to say. I heard them all again last night at the party from this boy that was 1 year older than me."

 

it was a bittersweet comment for sure; can't believe I said them but I am also happy that my kids no longer hear them....coming from me

[c0nfuzd]

@Shattered, great thread and advice for jstobo; not done reading yet but more and more I realize that only time may work in my situation; I keep asking her to give me a clue that things will work out, but with her wall up, there is no way she can give me a hint...the way she feels right now is that there is no chance at any time....now or in the future

 

all I can do is stick to my guns, show her that these changes are real and permanent and that even if it takes 2 years (like turnera said), it`s worth the wait....the real question is whether she can give me that time

 

if she is doing it for the kids, then she can; but if she rationalizes that the longer we keep this going, the harder it will be on the kids, then she may pull the trigger sooner

[ShatteredReality]

I am not 100% sure...but judging her character (it's just not her to do that and keep me around; we have kids too and it would be so much easier to just end it if there was an OM; why drag me along?); and the fact she is accountable for most of her actions, including that I have no evidence whatsoever...I have to dismiss this as theory but I would not be surprised if there is another OM....from everything she tells me, I am the single reason for her unhappiness

 

I did mention it again that if she had another man in her life, we could end this more easily, to which she laughed and said that I really don't understand what I did....I know what I did but I also know what I am doing; I think 5 months is possibly still too little time and I should have heeded both your advice and not bring up divorce or separation talk

 

Don't go by her "character" on whether she can/will cheat or not. I am not saying she is or has or will - but I am saying that is naive to think she can't/won't based on her character. I speak of experience - harsh and painfully learned. I didn't think I was even capable of it - but it happened. Now I take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again - one of those steps on my part is knowing I can and therefore avoiding dangerous situations. For my H - he also now knows that I can (before he would have told you I'd never have done such a thing) and he likely pays better attention to potential "warning" signs...I truly wish we hadn't learned this hard lesson in this fashion.

 

I need to give her more time and stop bringing up our problems; it seems that once a month I make the lapse in judgment and bring it up; it's not an argument that we have about it but I notice her frustration every time the topic comes up; and she says the same thing that there is no chance; that the longer we wait the more difficult it is on the kids; yet, she won't kick me out; I asked her if she wants me to do the papers to which she agreed; I told her I would never do it since I am not the one that wants out; it's almost as if she doesn't want the guilt to live with for giving me papers, so she is trying to drive me to it; I think it's because her family is so against her decision to end it, and she would feel more justified if I did it...sort of like "well, he decided to leave, I didn't do it"

I bolded it - you hit it. It would make life easier for her if you left, but if you continue to progress she may find herself falling for you again. It takes patience.

 

this morning, just before she was to leave the house for work, she says: "btw, I do appreciate everything you do around the house and for the kids; I don't mean to come across the wrong way; I do appreciate it"....and then I bid her a good day and she left

 

I was so convinced another "but there is no chance for us" was coming at me, I started feeling uneasy and took a step back; it was obvious that I was uncomfortable at that moment; I did not say a word and just looked away

 

slept like crap last night; turning on the heat in the house means the furnace now goes off throughout the night...and boy is it loud, it wakes me up every time; but it's ok, it's worthwhile to put up with

This is the first time she's shown her appreciation!! Yay! It's a huge step!

 

I am sorry you're not sleeping well though...maybe you can eventually progress to sharing one of the rooms upstairs? You might mention that the furnace kicking on wakes you up throughout the night and perhaps during the colder months you can share with one of the kids or something...get bunk beds?

 

my older one this morning said..."Daddy, I forgot all them bad words ya used to say. I heard them all again last night at the party from this boy that was 1 year older than me."

 

it was a bittersweet comment for sure; can't believe I said them but I am also happy that my kids no longer hear them....coming from me

 

At the least you are seeing a huge improvement here with the kids...that alone makes all of this worth it.

 

@Shattered, great thread and advice for jstobo; not done reading yet but more and more I realize that only time may work in my situation; I keep asking her to give me a clue that things will work out, but with her wall up, there is no way she can give me a hint...the way she feels right now is that there is no chance at any time....now or in the future

 

all I can do is stick to my guns, show her that these changes are real and permanent and that even if it takes 2 years (like turnera said), it`s worth the wait....the real question is whether she can give me that time

 

if she is doing it for the kids, then she can; but if she rationalizes that the longer we keep this going, the harder it will be on the kids, then she may pull the trigger sooner

 

I think more than anything she'll realize having you further away from the kids will make it more difficult on them. The closer you are and the more interaction you have with them the better for them. She likely sees your progress with them and if anything it's making it more difficult to serve up those papers. Most good mothers will choose a man based on how he treats her kids or gets along with them...so it stands to reason that if their father is the best choice she's going to keep him around for at least a little bit as long as he isn't abusing her - which you're not anymore.

[c0nfuzd]

thanks SR...worthy of note is that 2 days ago when I asked her what she wants, she said she doesn't know; this is in stark contrast to 2 months ago when she said she wanted a divorce

 

I have to remember the pain I have caused her and accept my current situation; she put up with 8 years of bs so I think I can put up with at least 2 years of her cold shoulder and sleeping in the basement; it's nothing compared to what I did to her; sometimes I wonder if it's the lack of sex and intimacy that makes this so hard but other times I know that if she simply looked me in the eye when talking to me, I would feel so much better

[c0nfuzd]

she says that if I had done the same changes last summer, things would be different; so what is wrong with seeing these changes a year later? I just don't understand how she can give up completely one year later; why is it ok then but not now?

[turnera]

Maybe she was wavering then but, after 6 more months of you ignoring her, the last little bit of love she had left dripped out.

[ShatteredReality]

Hmm...well let me analyze that for ya ok? So I am sure I mentioned seeing a counselor with my H for awhile...then individually. Some of her advice I took and used, some I discarded as not for me. One thing I used was this - I made a list of the behaviors I would no longer tolerate in my marriage from him. I put limits on those behaviors. One example is the verbal abuse. How many more times would I let him call me worthless/stupid/a pos? I put a limit on how many more emotional outbursts like that I would tolerate. I put a limit on how many times he could use opiates to self treat his moods. I put a limit on how many times he could blow up at or in front of the kids. I put a limit on how many times he could hold me down so I couldn't move so he could yell at me.

 

I also put limits on things he didn't do like hit me and the like. Just in case those surfaced. I wrote it all down and I put it somewhere he couldn't find it (out of the house) . During the next 6 months or so I watched for these things. Probably the least fair part of doing that was not telling him. I mean, I told him she told me to limit the abuse - put a cap on it...but I didn't tell him what the limits were. He'd have no warning - I was going to wait until he reached the limit and then just leave. It was difficult to sit down and actually decide for myself how much more abuse I could tolerate - to give him this grace period to work on himself and choose what he could get away with.

 

It's entirely possible your wife decided to give you a grace period similar to that...she may have said "If he doesn't shape up by X date then I just don't think I can take it after that. I will make my plans to leave and do it". If that's the case - the fact that she's still around means you have a chance, but you will be warring with an internal pact she made with herself.

[stillafool]

is there hope even though she clearly shows me that there is none? I started even praying but feel somewhat hypocritical in doing so since I was never a religious person; I just hit rock-bottom and I didn't know where or to whom else to turn to

 

 

You don't have to be religious to ask for forgiveness and pray. Don't stop. If your heart is genuine he will listen.

[c0nfuzd]

Maybe she was wavering then but, after 6 more months of you ignoring her, the last little bit of love she had left dripped out.

 

she was definitely poor at communicating this then...never did I hear her say "look this marriage is over if you don't shape up"...marriage is not a teen relationship that you can just toss out if you don't feel like being part of it no more; I understand my mistakes but she can't just give up when she sees change finally happening; it's worthwhile if not for herself, for the sake of the kids; I grew up in the middle of 2 divorces and look at the way I turned out lol

 

to quote Mort Fertel:

 

Here lies an unfortunate irony. People wait years

and years for their spouse to wake up and change

their ways. Then when they finally do it, they're

told it's too late.

I understand why someone would feel, after being

cheated on, for example, that "it's too late."

But the fact of the matter is that they're about

to walk away from a person who is FINALLY

prepared to be a wonderful loving spouse.

In my experience, it's these people, people who

have made serious mistakes, people who have had

the harshest wake up calls, who become the BEST

spouses and are capable, more than anyone else,

of forging the MOST fulfilling relationships.

Do you see the irony here?

The mistakes that ruin relationships are those

that transform the sinners into people capable of

the most outstanding relationships. The

unfortunate thing for the victim is that they

don't know how to heal from the hurt that would

enable them to reap the benefit of their ordeal.

So the roles become reversed. The person who was

ruining the relationship stands ready to

transform it; while the person who wanted to work

on the relationship all along becomes the cog in

the wheel that inhibits true love.

In other words, the woman above has a choice. If

she lets her husband go, he'll most likely fall

in love with another woman and treat her like a

queen. He'll be the husband to his new wife that

the woman above always wanted him to be to her.

I've seen it happen too often. Some lucky woman

owes a poor victim a lot of gratitude. But this

woman has another option. She could forgive her

husband and become that lucky woman!

 

The question is: how do you heal from your

ordeal? How do you forgive? How do you get to the

head-space where you're able to give your spouse

another chance?

 

nuff said...

 

Hmm...well let me analyze that for ya ok? So I am sure I mentioned seeing a counselor with my H for awhile...then individually. Some of her advice I took and used, some I discarded as not for me. One thing I used was this - I made a list of the behaviors I would no longer tolerate in my marriage from him. I put limits on those behaviors. One example is the verbal abuse. How many more times would I let him call me worthless/stupid/a pos? I put a limit on how many more emotional outbursts like that I would tolerate. I put a limit on how many times he could use opiates to self treat his moods. I put a limit on how many times he could blow up at or in front of the kids. I put a limit on how many times he could hold me down so I couldn't move so he could yell at me.

 

wow SR...I may have run to drugs to soothe my anger but I never called my wife worthless, or a pos....I did call her a c**t and a b**ch maybe 3 or 4 times in 8 years but that was in my anger and during an argument; I did not make it a daily habit of verbally abusing her; nor did I ever hold her down so I could yell at her; I just got carried away and yelled more than anything; also used the f word but never at her directly...example: I am f**king p*ssed off, that kinda thing; you tolerated a lot; it's hard to believe you forgave him; maybe your affair allowed you to forgive him; since she doesn't have an affair (to the best of my knowledge), it may be why she can't forgive me; I think she just hated how lazy and unmotivated I was to help out the family or in my life...which I attribute to the drug use because the good Lord knows how I am dying to get back to work now, and how much I am involved at home

 

You don't have to be religious to ask for forgiveness and pray. Don't stop. If your heart is genuine he will listen.

 

 

thank you stillafool...maybe you can also do a little prayer for me to help me out; I love this woman and I love my kids; my drug use fogged my mind and prevented me from showing it in a genuine way; I pray nightly for the Lord to keep me on this righteous path and I have not disappointed Him

[turnera]

she was definitely poor at communicating this then...never did I hear her say "look this marriage is over if you don't shape up"...marriage is not a teen relationship that you can just toss out if you don't feel like being part of it no more

Do NOT go there. That is blaming her and that gets you nowhere.

 

I have wanted to leave my marriage for at least the last 25 of my 31 1/2 years of marriage. When he goes out of town, my happiness increases. I go to work to decompress. And he's not that bad of a guy. But he LBs me no end. So much so that my love for him has drained out of my love bucket LB by LB, til I frankly couldn't care less if I ever see him again. And I SURE as hell wish I never had to have sex with him again. Yet here I am.

 

Not ONCE did I tell my husband until about 3 years ago, and that was only after years - years - of urging from my friends at another forum. Why? A host of reasons. Some my fault, some his, some FOO issues.

[turnera]

*sigh*

 

My husband called me the C word once. ONCE. I told him that if I ever heard that word again, he would never see me again. And I meant it. And I'm the Queen of sticking it out.

 

The fact that you have called her that as many times as you have, it's no wonder she stopped loving you. Men really have no idea how much of a twist of a knife that word is to so many of us. It's akin to you telling your friends they can have her for a night.

[c0nfuzd]

Do NOT go there. That is blaming her and that gets you nowhere.

 

I have wanted to leave my marriage for at least the last 25 of my 31 1/2 years of marriage. When he goes out of town, my happiness increases. I go to work to decompress. And he's not that bad of a guy. But he LBs me no end. So much so that my love for him has drained out of my love bucket LB by LB, til I frankly couldn't care less if I ever see him again. And I SURE as hell wish I never had to have sex with him again. Yet here I am.

 

Not ONCE did I tell my husband until about 3 years ago, and that was only after years - years - of urging from my friends at another forum. Why? A host of reasons. Some my fault, some his, someFOO issues.

 

no you're right...blaming her definitely won't fix the problem; I guess I am bitter at not having been able to read her mind; when I talk to guy friends, you should see the language we use; I forget that with a woman, that language must be cast aside, especially when we get into a heated argument; but it is exactly the area that I choose to focus on in correcting my ways; how to convey my feelings without resorting to cussing and yelling; I think I have made great strides in this department and I am sure she sees that; it's been 6 months if not more since I've resorted to bad language to express myself in front of her or the kids; I honestly did not see anything wrong with it and that has to do with how my mother raised me up; she used every bad word in the dictionary when I was young to get across her ideas

 

she said the same thing to me just recently lol....when I went on a vacation without her, she felt great; and work also de-stresses her....she says I was an a**hole then but I am definitely a good guy

 

so what is a man to do when he loves his wife but can't get intimate with her because she no longer has the need to or the urge to make love to him? I am extremely attracted to my wife and never considered another woman but sometimes I wonder how long I can hold out on the sex part; I want to be loyal but she is obviously not interested in satisfying my needs; still, I would never stray; I want to be completely faithful to the end

[c0nfuzd]

*sigh*

 

My husband called me the C word once. ONCE. I told him that if I ever heard that word again, he would never see me again. And I meant it. And I'm the Queen of sticking it out.

 

The fact that you have called her that as many times as you have, it's no wonder she stopped loving you. Men really have no idea how much of a twist of a knife that word is to so many of us. It's akin to you telling your friends they can have her for a night.

 

yup, I truly had no idea how much of an impact words have on a woman's psyche; live and learn as they say; and I may be paying the ultimate price (D) for not having understood this earlier on

[stillafool]

 

thank you stillafool...maybe you can also do a little prayer for me to help me out; I love this woman and I love my kids; my drug use fogged my mind and prevented me from showing it in a genuine way; I pray nightly for the Lord to keep me on this righteous path and I have not disappointed Him

 

I will put you and your wife on my prayer list.

[turnera]

so what is a man to do when he loves his wife but can't get intimate with her because she no longer has the need to or the urge to make love to him? I am extremely attracted to my wife and never considered another woman but sometimes I wonder how long I can hold out on the sex part; I want to be loyal but she is obviously not interested in satisfying my needs; still, I would never stray; I want to be completely faithful to the end

You need to have a plan and a timeline. You need to explain that plan to her as best as she will allow. She needs to hear that your only goal is to win her back. Ask her what that would look like. What would it take for her to care again? Ask her what her dreams are nowadays, so you can see how you fit in, could fit in. At this point, it has to be about her; she's put her happiness on hold for SO long that you may or may not be able to be part of it any more - you may just exemplify so much unhappiness to her that it will never happen and she's only not kicking you out because of your surgery. Time will tell.

 

But I think (I hope I'm not wrong) that she needs to see some kind of direction from you. Not in a confrontation (I want you to accept me back!) kind of way, but rather a thoughtful way (I've changed SO much this year that I hardly know myself, but I DO know the only thing I want in life is to be with you and kids - tell me how I can make that happen).

 

I'm not saying to ask her for an answer. I'm saying to ask her to hear what's going on in her mind. Make this about her for once; make her feel she's the most important thing in your life and, if it's what she wants, you'll leave, but you're hoping that she can still pull out some love for you as she sees that this is your life-altering moment. Just get some direction on what it would take to possibly soften her heart.

 

That said, you DO need a timeline. I'd say another year, maybe end of 2012. I'm sure you don't want to be celibate that long, but you CAN if you want your wife back badly enough. If you need release to tide you over, you know what to do. Do NOT make this about you getting some or not. Do NOT base your decisions on whether you do. That would be tragic for all concerned.

[c0nfuzd]

You need to have a plan and a timeline. You need to explain that plan to her as best as she will allow. She needs to hear that your only goal is to win her back. Ask her what that would look like. What would it take for her to care again? Ask her what her dreams are nowadays, so you can see how you fit in, could fit in. At this point, it has to be about her; she's put her happiness on hold for SO long that you may or may not be able to be part of it any more - you may just exemplify so much unhappiness to her that it will never happen and she's only not kicking you out because of your surgery. Time will tell.

 

But I think (I hope I'm not wrong) that she needs to see some kind of direction from you. Not in a confrontation (I want you to accept me back!) kind of way, but rather a thoughtful way (I've changed SO much this year that I hardly know myself, but I DO know the only thing I want in life is to be with you and kids - tell me how I can make that happen).

 

I'm not saying to ask her for an answer. I'm saying to ask her to hear what's going on in her mind. Make this about her for once; make her feel she's the most important thing in your life and, if it's what she wants, you'll leave, but you're hoping that she can still pull out some love for you as she sees that this is your life-altering moment. Just get some direction on what it would take to possibly soften her heart.

 

That said, you DO need a timeline. I'd say another year, maybe end of 2012. I'm sure you don't want to be celibate that long, but you CAN if you want your wife back badly enough. If you need release to tide you over, you know what to do. Do NOT make this about you getting some or not. Do NOT base your decisions on whether you do. That would be tragic for all concerned.

 

I made myself very clear 3 days ago on where I stand; I told her my heart is here at home and I want to do my best for the kids and for her; that I will never go back to the old me; I have never lied to her or ever made empty promises so she knows I am being honest; I may have been a druggie but I've always had integrity; I told her she is still #1 in my mind and that I only want her; I also told her that she is free to leave me at any time; my recovery is going well and I could leave before Christmas if that is what she wants; I hope she doesn't follow thru; she knows that I only want to make her happy even if that means me leaving; I explained to her how we can create a verbal agreement to be used as our separation document so that come May 2012, we can forego the 1-year separation period and she could then file for divorce right away; if she thinks she and the kids will be happier in their lives without me around, I am not holding her back on achieving her goals

 

I can wait a year or longer...not a problem; it's the least I can do for her and the kids

 

it seems to me that every time I address our situation, it doesn't do me any good; it's like it sets me back; so I am weary of saying anything more at this point; at least for some time to come; but, as is customary, I will re-read this thread from time to time to ensure I know how to approach the topic if she ever brings it up; I notice that lately she does not bring it up; it's me; I definitely will keep in mind your suggestions, turnera

 

just last night we talked about the kids switching bedrooms and one of them was really uneasy; so we waited for them to go to bed and further discussed the idea; we concluded that it may be best for them not to switch rooms; I really liked how relaxed she was and that she made eye contact; maybe it's nothing but on 2 separate occasions last night I noticed her make eye contact the entire time we talked; and both times it was about the kids

[turnera]

I think she is seeing you starting to act like the man she thought she married, and it's got her thinking. If you already brought it up, don't do so again. Just keep on truckin'.

[c0nfuzd]

just finished watching His Needs Her Needs for Parents vid...just when I think there is nothing more I can learn, along comes this vid lol; I just wish I would have gotten educated about all this a year ago...hate to sound like my wife but this may just be "too late" for us

 

unless she opens up, all this knowledge I am acquiring about how to make our marriage stronger is for naught

 

I also finished listening to the 5 LLs...I know my LL is the words of affirmation and I think it is hers as well; so I make sure everyday I give her some; I especially concur with LOVE IS A CHOICE...it's something that I don't think she is aware of; when the time is right, I will tell her about it; maybe even get her to listen to the 5 LLs

 

but for now, I will continue to give her the space she wants; every now and then I see her reaching out, like yesterday, when out of the blue she started telling me how unhappy she is at work

 

she told me 2 months ago that I suffocate her with my presence; I am trying to distance myself from her physically as much as possible while remaining close enough when she wants to reach out

[ShatteredReality]

she was definitely poor at communicating this then...never did I hear her say "look this marriage is over if you don't shape up"...marriage is not a teen relationship that you can just toss out if you don't feel like being part of it no more; I understand my mistakes but she can't just give up when she sees change finally happening; it's worthwhile if not for herself, for the sake of the kids; I grew up in the middle of 2 divorces and look at the way I turned out lol

You can't hear anything with your ears plugged. She told you - somehow along the way she said or did things to let you know. You weren't paying attention. I promise you she tried to let you know her pain at some point and then she just eventually realized you weren't responding and she gave up. I did the same thing. I even told him if he didn't change I'd leave...but it didn't sink in until I said "I'm leaving". For some reason "I'm going to leave" doesn't have the same impact as "I'm leaving".

 

 

 

wow SR...I may have run to drugs to soothe my anger but I never called my wife worthless, or a pos....I did call her a c**t and a b**ch maybe 3 or 4 times in 8 years but that was in my anger and during an argument; I did not make it a daily habit of verbally abusing her; nor did I ever hold her down so I could yell at her; I just got carried away and yelled more than anything; also used the f word but never at her directly...example: I am f**king p*ssed off, that kinda thing; you tolerated a lot; it's hard to believe you forgave him; maybe your affair allowed you to forgive him; since she doesn't have an affair (to the best of my knowledge), it may be why she can't forgive me; I think she just hated how lazy and unmotivated I was to help out the family or in my life...which I attribute to the drug use because the good Lord knows how I am dying to get back to work now, and how much I am involved at home

Calling her a C**t is just as bad as the other things he called me... He called me that too...there were no named he held back on calling me. I can count on one hand, though, the times he pulled out the C word...3 to be exact.

 

I went to a meeting for verbally and mentally abused women at one of those local womens shelters about 4 yrs into our marriage...I went exactly once. I couldn't go back again. I nearly cried when I got home...for those women...for my children...those girls had so much worse stories than I had. But I knew my story wasn't a good one...and when I told it while I was there the entire room of women closed in on me and they all told me to leave him and never look back - an abuser never changes and he will suck the very life out of you. I took some of the brochures home and showed them to him, I told him I felt like a part of my died each time he said those awful things to me. Somehow - even being that blunt with him - he didn't understand. He still saw it as minimal - like I was being "dramatic" or something I suppose. He didn't understand until it was too late. And I did put up with a lot...I once listed all of the things that he'd done to me...

 

After the Affair the guilt was a huge part in keeping me around. However...if I hadn't had the A I would have left him, moved out...and he still may have been able to get me to return to him....if he changed and kept to it over time. It would have likely taken longer, though, b/c I was going to just get an apartment and leave him. He would have been posting on here saying it was out of the blue and he had no idea - just like you.

 

 

no you're right...blaming her definitely won't fix the problem; I guess I am bitter at not having been able to read her mind; when I talk to guy friends, you should see the language we use; I forget that with a woman, that language must be cast aside, especially when we get into a heated argument; but it is exactly the area that I choose to focus on in correcting my ways; how to convey my feelings without resorting to cussing and yelling; I think I have made great strides in this department and I am sure she sees that; it's been 6 months if not more since I've resorted to bad language to express myself in front of her or the kids; I honestly did not see anything wrong with it and that has to do with how my mother raised me up; she used every bad word in the dictionary when I was young to get across her ideas

My H has said similar things to me many times since our reconciliation. He and "the guys" can say terrible things to one another...he had no idea the impact it would have on a woman. I held no bars in telling him that it tore at the core of who I was inside...that I had given him my heart and all that that implied and the longer I left it with him while he treated me that way the worse I felt about myself. I was always naturally a happy and cheerful girl with a decent sense of humor and pretty good personality. I allowed his treatment of me to change that - I began to hate life and myself. I began to fantasize about getting hit by a semi on the freeway at night...thinking everyone would be better off without someone as terrible as me running around. I know I gave him all the power - but really - the man I loved and cherished said and did things to convey that I wasn't worth loving and cherishing back.

 

Once, he asked me why I was two different people. He said he would watch me at work or with other people, I was happy and bubbly and conversational...he said I kinda lit up and became the girl I was when he first met me. He said he didn't understand why I left that girl outside when I walked through the front door...I didn't either when he asked me that. But I do now.

 

she said the same thing to me just recently lol....when I went on a vacation without her, she felt great; and work also de-stresses her....she says I was an a**hole then but I am definitely a good guy

 

so what is a man to do when he loves his wife but can't get intimate with her because she no longer has the need to or the urge to make love to him? I am extremely attracted to my wife and never considered another woman but sometimes I wonder how long I can hold out on the sex part; I want to be loyal but she is obviously not interested in satisfying my needs; still, I would never stray; I want to be completely faithful to the end

 

My best vacations were the ones without him...the last couple of years have been much better. Even still...even with all of his progress and our progress together...sometimes my trips w/out him are more relaxing. Not "better" per se, but definitely more relaxing.

 

I made myself very clear 3 days ago on where I stand; I told her my heart is here at home and I want to do my best for the kids and for her; that I will never go back to the old me; I have never lied to her or ever made empty promises so she knows I am being honest; I may have been a druggie but I've always had integrity; I told her she is still #1 in my mind and that I only want her; I also told her that she is free to leave me at any time; my recovery is going well and I could leave before Christmas if that is what she wants; I hope she doesn't follow thru; she knows that I only want to make her happy even if that means me leaving; I explained to her how we can create a verbal agreement to be used as our separation document so that come May 2012, we can forego the 1-year separation period and she could then file for divorce right away; if she thinks she and the kids will be happier in their lives without me around, I am not holding her back on achieving her goals

 

I can wait a year or longer...not a problem; it's the least I can do for her and the kids

 

it seems to me that every time I address our situation, it doesn't do me any good; it's like it sets me back; so I am weary of saying anything more at this point; at least for some time to come; but, as is customary, I will re-read this thread from time to time to ensure I know how to approach the topic if she ever brings it up; I notice that lately she does not bring it up; it's me; I definitely will keep in mind your suggestions, turnera

 

just last night we talked about the kids switching bedrooms and one of them was really uneasy; so we waited for them to go to bed and further discussed the idea; we concluded that it may be best for them not to switch rooms; I really liked how relaxed she was and that she made eye contact; maybe it's nothing but on 2 separate occasions last night I noticed her make eye contact the entire time we talked; and both times it was about the kids

Stop talking and just do. You're in the time for action. She knows your intentions - don't repeat it unless it changes.

 

just finished watching His Needs Her Needs for Parents vid...just when I think there is nothing more I can learn, along comes this vid lol; I just wish I would have gotten educated about all this a year ago...hate to sound like my wife but this may just be "too late" for us

 

unless she opens up, all this knowledge I am acquiring about how to make our marriage stronger is for naught

 

I also finished listening to the 5 LLs...I know my LL is the words of affirmation and I think it is hers as well; so I make sure everyday I give her some; I especially concur with LOVE IS A CHOICE...it's something that I don't think she is aware of; when the time is right, I will tell her about it; maybe even get her to listen to the 5 LLs

 

but for now, I will continue to give her the space she wants; every now and then I see her reaching out, like yesterday, when out of the blue she started telling me how unhappy she is at work

 

she told me 2 months ago that I suffocate her with my presence; I am trying to distance myself from her physically as much as possible while remaining close enough when she wants to reach out

Quit waffling back and forth. You have your plans. It's not too late until the papers are signed...and even then - Just stop focusing on where things went wrong and just focus on doing things right from now on.

 

When I was in the first grade I was above average in reading - I was a 5th grade level. One day the teacher was having us read in circles and for each paragraph we got a sticker. I wanted that sticker. I couldn't for the life of me remember the K was silent in knowledge. I couldn't read the word. I wanted to cry. I didn't get the sticker. I did not spend the next year focusing on the fact that I screwed up the K in knowledge - I learned from that moment forward and never misread or misspelled that word again. I will never get THAT sticker - but I have gotten many many since. I know it's a juvenile example...but I hope you see where I am trying to go with it.

 

Chin up - you're doing GREAT. Concentrate on THAT! ::cyber hug::