believe it or not do trust her, I just am suspicious...

[Poconobob]

So what do I do about her wish to sell the house? The "key" to the entire thing is she wants space, space to think...

 

I cannot emphasize enough that I'm truly not controlling....however, they say perception is reality. So long as she has the perception, the thinking I don't trust her, the longer and stronger her will to separate becomes. I know she loves this house, however, I will say that I would do anything not to dismantle the relationship.

 

Someone in a book suggests bribing her....saying, Look, if I ever control again, or whatever she thinks, I will agree to divorce, give her all the proceeds to the house, and allow for it all to be on her terms, not mine...

 

I'd like to know if she elects to email you back.....I don't need to know the context of the email as all it would do is let my mind wander on and on what she said.

 

Sometimes, she is stubborn, sometimes a nice email to her, introducing yourself as my mentor to understand what she is thinking.....in confidence mind you...and that OFTEN, I've found she needs two emails to answer back.

 

She has as I said before changed her idea from the absolute NO to maybe as far as going to a counselor to talk about ME, to talk about MY relationship problem.

 

I know you've been a gem thus far in helping me to understand how she is so quick to jump to conclusions, BUT, believe me, what I REALLY want is to go back to work but my doctor won't allow me to. The accident by the way, I spoke with the neighbor who went with me the supposed day I went flying all over....He has two very young children, is an adult and sane.....he said had I done that he would have said something and not wanted me to drive him again anywhere and plus, he said his nails would have been embedded into the dash.

 

She thinks, and to a point it is true that I want to go beat his ass. However wrong, somebody, somebody is fueling her emotions....why? I don't know...but what happened in the past week with the accident showed her that she distrusts me, doesn't believe me, and in essence resents me.

 

I'll paraphrase a bit, in her anger, telling me I possibly did the accident on purpose, she told my mother that I went to a car race two sundays ago, then drove 90mph with the family in the car, and a friend's kid, then Monday I was in an accident......couple that with my wife's boss, the butthole who keeps on keeping on, it just makes me irritated as that isn't true. Here is what IS true....

I did go to a sponsored event by Mazda, it was where you drive THEIR cars, you get to drive around cones, you are taught maneuvers, taught to drive to avoid accidents....etc. NOT SOME CAR RACE... then, I came home along the turnpike....if you've ever taken the turnpike up from philly towards the north, the traffic flow is average of 80mph.....there was a short period where I did drive 100....I was wrong for doing so but there is no excuse for that and I'm not about to say a word otherwise, I was wrong. Why did I do that? Because in my scattered mind which doesn't rationalize properly, I wanted to get home to take the dog out, to get home in less time as it was already going on 8pm and the dog had not been out all day, he is older, well OLD, not older. Anyway, that is a case in point of how sometimes I don't think properly, of how I don't think rationally.....

 

Secondly, I drove to Wilkes-Barre with the family the evening of the fight, I drove EXACTLY, I MEAN EXACTLY the speed limit or less.....All this to show, not tell her that I'm cooling my jets. Even though she noticed it, she still is angry......

 

She had said after the fight that she planned to move out as we need space and I should move out or she move out....then, she said that she was going to wait until after our son went to Florida to visit grandma to move out. I guess to some extent I can't say for sure if it was true or not.

 

You know, after our fight and all, last evening, we laid in the same bed and talked.... I said I'm sorry for everything I've done to you, she said I am also sorry for what I've done to you. Then I said a few minutes later, I'm also wanting you to know that I'm NOT going to be after your boss, and that whether or not you believe me, I trust you.

 

It is the part that "she doesn't trust" that I "trust" her that has seemingly the largest "objection" to staying together and the second thing she wants to bring up is that she wants space to see if we both miss each other.

 

Over and over I'm told not to do this leaving thing except for my doc who now said it is time to back off and leave though on my parents side of things, they firmly believe I should LEAVE, sell the house, move down with them, sell our furnature, and divorce as it is all over......they said I tried all I should and that she has "other" interests in mind.

 

Is that true? I'm so so so confused, all I want is to reassure her that I'm able to let it ride, to forget about the past, but not forget the reason WHY...things got so bad.

 

Thanks for your advice....thanks. Here is what I "wish" for....not to have things go to hunky dorey immediately but to address the root of her anger, to address all that has taken place, and to see what may come of counseling.

 

Yesterday, I know it is weak of me....but I cried 2X....once while talking to her I started to break down and I ran upstairs....she came upstairs a few minutes later with a cup of coffee and said here....don't be upset. Time and time again, I can feel internally that she wants to embrase me. I can just feel it in the air....but again, she is so so so stubborn, fixed on some emotion.

 

I'll stop now... enough for one post

 

bob

[jmargel]

I'll let you know if she replies back. I wouldn't sell the house. When is your son going to FL? Part of me still thinks she's not really serious about moving out. Just because you get into an arguement, it doesn't give her the right to want to leave, if she's not serious about it. It's like a spouse or fiancee saying 'its over' everytime they are in a bad mood and an arguement happens. There are some boundaries you DONT cross.

 

Like I said before, don't talk about her leaving or the seperation for a couple of days. Let things cool down. I'd also suggest for her to call Carolyn. She probably feels the need for space, because she doesnt know how to confront these problems. 'Needing space', to me is a way to 'Run away' from your problems. Just missing someone isn't going to solve what is needed to fix. She needs to realize that. I'm hoping if she replies that's something I can make her understand.

[Poconobob]

The "thing" has gotten to the point where someone is coming up to appraise the house to put it on the market.....from that point, it is just a matter of time. The reason she states she wants to sell now is because she can't stand the controlling and argue, argue, argue...which I've told ya she hasn't really argued with me much. We did air laundry...I know I should not have but I was stupid and irritated. I should have just ignored it....

 

I know I should have done a lot of things but I was pissed off....Especially at the very notion that she'd think I was checking. I have not, will not...However, she was convinced I checked what clothes she took to the seminar, I was convinced this time that she is serious about selling the house as she said she didn't ever like the high payment anyway so she is divorcing her feelings towards the house as well.

 

I wish Carolyn could give me some advice over the phone, even if I paid for it.

 

The only way NOT to sell the house is for a report back saying it is worth say 200K instead of 300K because the payoff is like 234K....

 

I have too many opinions here; One, my parents who have said that they think she is cheating on me....and just break if off, accept it and move on. Another says come to Florida, escape my problems here and deal with just ME....which is my psychologist. He isn't a marriage counselor so his responsibility is to help me, not solve the problem but rather to help me deal with the situation.....Then there is ME, I feel she may or may not have cheated....but now isn't cheating but may feel that since she did cheat, there was a reason and she felt different afterward, and now feels like separation to explore???

 

If she did, here is the evidence, NONE....nothing to conclude except taking high heels in winter, white I might add and two pair of lace undies when it is for one night, loss of weight, and her not telling me she was going with her boss which she states because I was crazed...and it wouldn't have mattered because I would have been an a**h*** about it. Truth be told, I would have....

In her daily diary book of "to do" lists, she had in there from week 3 of Jan an abbreviation talk to "m share ride"....which was written over and over for weeks so I assume she never talked to him about it, then, the second week of feb, she was on the victoria secret site, then a couple days before the trip purchased those white lace high heeled shoes... THAT IS IT, nothing more except working lat(er)....which is kind of commonplace for her job and also she was the only one there.

 

So, I'm stuck between opinions, if I leave for a while, perhaps the divorce won't take place...If I stay, the house will have to go on the market. If we sell the house, I'm not mentally prepared to go! I'm just not... In fact I think it would further make me paranoid for lack of a better word.

 

Space will do nothing....distance won't allow for us to get back together, my heart and sole have been put into this relationship and I don't want to allow for anything to get in the way.

 

Some guy who wrote a book does therapy....pay a $575 money order and then he touts a 95% success rate in stopping a divorce by changing their ways of thinking. He touts 45 years experience NOT accepting a divorce like psychologists do but ways of getting people back together. The average is 3 sessions for $1500 bucks....which honestly if I had that I wouldn't have to stoop to this level of trying to stop a divorce. This is how despirate I am....this is how much I DON'T want a divorce NOR a separation.

 

I'm so distraut, so so so distraut. I'm confused, scared, fearful of fate, in love which she isn't, and that all would be easy IF I knew she had "other plans"....but she repeatedly says pretty much the same things.....

I am confident, I've changed, I am not after another man, I don't care to complicate my life with another man OR woman, I need space, this won't work as it is going now, I love you, I know that....but I'm not currently IN love with you, I want a divorce----followed now by no divorce as it is "too fast" but rather I want to separate for a while, I need time to think, I want to see how it is without you and I can't while we're together....

 

This weekend other than the spat and her subsequent tantrum for being pissed off about not having the funds to move ..... otherwise VERY civil, VERY nice....and she wants to tell our son on Wednesday after school that we're selling the house and going separate.

 

I don't have time....I need to work on stopping things now, not later.

 

bob

[jmargel]

Get the whole idea of her cheating before or now out of the picture. If she was cheating there would be alot of other signs going on other than those (even the things she did weren't signs of cheating).

 

You only sell the house if you don't want it anymore. Don't sell it because of her nor anybody else. Seems like you have your thoughts more straight than before, so living down in FL with your psychologist will probably not do you any better. Also take people's opinions with a grain of salt. Your parents saying she's probably been cheating on you is doing you more harm than good. Unless you have proof than don't even make that assumption.

 

Remember she did this before, threating to leave and then once you said OK she backed off. Just because you have an appraiser to check the house doesn't mean you have to sell it. That commerical you saw is just some hack trying to get money. There is always some tiny disclaimer that it's not a guarantee. You can't win her back by words or by mind control or psychology.

 

You have to stop putting all of this on yourself as well. Just by your threads you don't mention much about what she is doing wrong but I'm picking up on alot. It's also NOT the end of the world if she does live somewhere else for awhile. Your life isn't dependant on her. I know it probably feels like she is slipping away from you, I had that experience with my ex-fiancee. It's no fun.

 

She hasn't written back to me yet. Don't say anything to her that I emailed you, otherwise she's going to think I'm going to tell you everything she mails me, thus I won't get a reply.

 

When you talk to her tonight ask her by giving her space, what does she think that is going to do to help the problems between you two? Seeing a marriage councilor would be alot more beneficial than living apart. It's time for something to get resolved here, either way. Living this way for either of you is not good emotionally or physically.

[Poconobob]

Okay, first of all, as usual you are right, however, I have to do some self admission also. I have not totally been the angel but rather a irrationally thinking, angry, suspicious man solely because in 17 years we've NEVER gone without sex together for so much as a week, let alone this length of time. I feel mentally drained over it, I have burnt the candle at both ends by having my sole TRUST, and my mind NOT trust. I tell you also, talking with her, whenever she throws up something like the drying rack thingy, HONESTLY, utter brutally HONEST, I looked after bumping which did make an additional noise, then since she did her own laundry upon return which by the way didn't include ANY of the clothes she took on her trip, I was not thinking clearly. All this is REALLY, REALLY a continuation of the school of paranoia. Had I been a student, I would have gotten an A....

 

Having the house appraised.....it came back at $ much, much higher than I thought. Though it makes me know I'll clear 100K, she said that she wants not penny one of it, she wants space to be away from the constant thumbnail I keep her under without even knowing it. What I'm doing SHE KNOWS, as she puts it, my eyes and ears tell the story....she said, she saw me looking as she unpacked...she said she just feels insulted, hurt, and mindful that I'm still not trusting her. I just CAN'T stop with suspicion because it "HAD" manifested itself into its own being. That the signs were there, i.e., working longer hours (duh, now she has a career), losing weight, wearing scantily clad undies (which drives me as a man NUTS), laughing and cutting up as if there is nothing wrong(which drives me nuts as I'm paranoid that she isn't upset like I am over the situation). In another admission, I HAD checked on her to see if her vehicle was at work, I had up until recently occasionally call to see if she was at her desk, I had checked like a detective on a cold trail about many things.....WHY, because she started a new life as a individual who knows what she wants, who knows she can be independent....

 

As I said before, we aired some laundry the other night...but I never told her and have not told her just how much she means to me since I was told to back off my emotions...because all it does is show weakness. She saw me crying yesterday as we cleaned and spiffed up the house for appraisal......

 

Ok, today's conversation--I said, are you sure you want to do this and she said well, you leave me no alternative as I cannot move out for a short period, I'd have to sign a lease....whereas IF I were to go away, perhaps visit relatives, it would give the marriage time to settle down because as time has gone on, the rift has increased as I get more and more frustrated, as she gets more and more frustrated, as I do more and more stupid episodes, and as she becomes more and more certain that this is what she wants.

After telling her, YES, we can sell the house, and my saying, ARE YOU SURE....as I said, I see this as the end...and to that, she said NO, there are other mortgages, there are other houses, there are other alternatives, heck I'd let you move in with me if things worked out....THEN, out of the blue, she said she isn't opposed to not selling the house anymore, not opposed to my leaving for a month. See I don't mind leaving....I don't think it would do anything to HELP me to be better off BUT it would allow her to cool off. She is hurt, pissed, frustrated, and all the other irritating remarks that one could post.

 

I will say, she was nice on the phone......I will say that a good 60% or more of my continued distain and leary thinking is directly from my parents who say that they've seen it before with other couples who have ended in divorce.....that IF I leave, she could clean me out of all my items, sell all the furnature, move out, whatever.....EVEN which they said could happen is she could get a restraining order against me.....

 

I told her that I trusted her so much that I'd be willing to sign a contract that IF I ever did this again, she would be able to have all the proceeds to the house and also have a divorce ALL on her own terms, without strings...

I said to her that I have lots of my frustration because we don't make love anymore....that we aren't communicating. I asked her before, WHO IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.....she said, right now, I don't have one. Typically, it is ME....and what the F am I doing to my best friend? I'm slowly PUSHING her out the door, piece by piece, little by little.

 

AS for counceling.....she is slowly but ever slowly turning, she said perhaps after I take my leave of absence OR after she take her leave of absence BUT the problem with her is she won't reduce her standards of living as she thinks it isn't about her, it is all about ME and my problems. Having a candid conversation about what I want and what she wants NEEDS TO BE DONE IN COUNCELING, I agree.....I vehamently agree but what can I do pal???

 

Do you think I should start? Then eventually get her to go? It certainly would allow me to see just what I might do to get her to come in without tricking her.

 

I'm NOT opposed, however, I just got MAJOR, MAJOR brain damage from my mother by saying....it all. I told her and she got fuming mad and said that I'm not taking their advice so why do I bother to ask. She (mom) said dad thinks she is cheating on me because HIS ASS cheated on my mom and they worked it out far differently by forgiving. My dad is a type person who by association of knowing what he did, he associates her behavior with his..

 

Man, I'm scared....were I a drug addict, it would be like being scared straight by the death of a friend.

 

I have a catch 22 here.....what do I do? Listing the house would not solve anything, NEITHER of us can afford it apart, she works so she cannot "leave" for a break whereas I can leave. IF I leave, I could pose the thought that I'd move into a place that is like $200 a month for some dive .... I don't care, IF that would enable me to prove my worthiness, then okay, I'll do it. I wouldn't have anything. I wouldn't have the internet, wouldn't have a home phone, just my cell phone, but would be local. Then I could go get counceling, I would SUFFER in such a place but you know what, I lived in a trailer when I was in the military, I lived by myself, and it isn't as if I need a pillow top matress, HDTV or anything, I DO however want my wife. I'm willing at this point to stoop to the lowest form of self awareness by living amongst the poorest of poor in those all included flats for a couple hundred bucks a month IF it would do good.

 

You are so right, my psychologist is out to help ME, not my relationship....I know all the time I've said something about it, he has said WHY, WHY WHY do I always talk about her, not making me a better person.

 

So you want to know some things about her.... Okay, here goes, she is up until this past few months been a faithful, helpful, understanding to a fault, caring, loving, HOMEMAKER AND CAREER PERSON, been there for everything a man would ever want in a woman. She is beautiful, I am not just seeing it though my eyes, you can see it in every man who looks at her....even more so now that she shed a few pounds....she is funny, she is fun to be with, used to literally make me NEVER turn a thought to infedelity. The thought never crossed my mind that I'd have to start over....that I'd ever have to live life without her and we'd grow old together. HOWEVER, this girl has a temper, is stubborn, is bull headed, and once she gets a thought one way, it is VERY hard to change it. Even with the worst of her thoughts about us, she says she loves me, even now in the midst of the possibility of moving and living alone, she said, "that is how bad it is....."I need a break"", time to be alone.

 

Is wanting to be alone a sign of infedelity? No....but what does it represent in the scheme of things? Space is defined as the need to have time away from me to reconscile things, to come home and not have me on her coat strings, for me to not be in her face.....she says she isn't happy, she said that saturday. What is happy by definitiion is her being able to go to grocery without answering to anyone. It is being allowed to foster her career without me wanting to kill her boss......who by the way she said is completely innocent and I should look in the mirror if I want to see the problem. All along, she sees me as the sole root of the problem and eliminating me for a time would heal the wound I guess.

 

I don't know if she will email you or not....I tell u she is stubborn. Perhaps telling her you won't tell me would help... She has never been an "internet" person, never uses groups like this, uses the internet for information, for getting maps, for making reservations, and for downloading music, THAT IS IT....well, occasionally, rarely she will email someone. She is a phone person, yacks on the phone for hours, it is amazing, sometimes I don't see her come up for air.

 

I know this isn't healthy for us, my thoughts are so mixed up, I think it was part of the reason I couldn't act fast enough before the accident...

 

So you both agree, both you and my parents that leaving just won't do......however, justify how I can justify my position? My position being one where I'd do just about anything short of just about anything to win.

 

sorry it is soooooooo long...

 

bob

[Poconobob]

Don't know if she emailed you but she told me upon coming home that "my cyber buddy Jim" emailed her. She said nothing more....

It is partly what I said, she really isn't into the internet much except for research, checking out places to go on vacation, etc....THAT is the problemo....getting a reply back takes a bit to convince her that you aren't my cyber buddy but rather someone who has gone through it and has TOLD me things to understand a woman's point of view.

I believe that needs shared with her, perhaps a couple points such as you've convinced me about space, why someone loses weight, etc. Be a blunt, to the point except when offering something to solve something "she" is doing.

 

Last evening, upon return home, I mean literally minutes out of the vehicle, she said something on the order of what I put in the last paragraph, then said "we'd said we would sell if we could clear 100K on the house" that I'd said that before and it is only a house, we could get over it just like we did with the old house we stayed in 15 years in florida. Later, she asked me my thoughts....I said, I see selling the house as an "end"....she said OH NO, NO ... and said there are always plenty of homes. She also said that WE both should agree whether or not to sell the house at this point but for me to remember it is just a house.

 

Do you think perhaps there is a 3rd baseman so to speak coaching her as she'll say one thing, then after being at work a while will change. Coaching as in a person who has either divorced or been through it or something to that effect.

 

Later on, after her tred mill routine, we ate dinner and no more mention except to ask what time the "other" realtor is coming and IF I'd have time to run the cleaner, tidy up....after that it was a trip up to the pc to play and check out water parks, etc....

 

Sheesh this is confusing, I'm trying and trying to deal with it....

 

Any ideas? She might be offended by me sending flowers to just say I was thinking about her...but there has to be something to penetrate the barrier. I can see this definitely is a mindset feeling based on being convinced in her own mind that the solution is space. Space has been defined before as our both needing a break from the marriage and her being able to see IF it is me making her unhappy...if it is me she will miss, and if she can cope without me. IMO, people "learn" to cope...very much so, even I would learn to cope. She stated that a timeline of how long is unknown for us to be apart and perhaps things would be actually BETTER than before and we'd appreciate each other more if we separated.

 

Do note, her Canadian friend separated from her husband for a couple years and worked with Cathy in Florida while the husband kept house up in Canada and now they are back together and are enjoying each other more than ever. Therefore, IF I had to guess, that might be where she is coming up with her idea...???

 

bob

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

Let her know that i'm not your 'cyber-buddy', with that kinda perception she's not going to respond to my email. If she is so admitant on getting space, then you probably have no choice but to give it to her. Fighting that, will push her away, even though counciling would be the much better option. Perhaps going to counciling while not living together will help quite a bit.

 

Like I said, selling the house is a huge step. Personally, I wouldn't do it. You have to consider where you are going to store all your stuff in the meantime, etc.. You both have enough stress to deal with, adding the sale of a house on top of that would be too much.

 

You have to learn to trust her, which means trusting her now when she says the things she is saying. That her not living with you, isn't the 'end'. Think of it as her way of wanting to try to fix things.

 

I told her that I trusted her so much that I'd be willing to sign a contract that IF I ever did this again, she would be able to have all the proceeds to the house and also have a divorce ALL on her own terms, without strings...

 

You are bargaining your way to keep her in your life. You know it & she knows it. Don't say those kinda things to her, that's not going to bring her closer to you. If things work out in the end, both of you inevidability are going to say or do something that will hurt the other. That's natural.

 

And no I don't think there is a '3rd baseman' coaching her. She seems like a very smart person, and though may ask for advice like you, she can make decisions on her own.

 

If you do live seperately from one another, one thing you have to make sure of, is to not call her for little things just to see where she is at. You must give her complete space, in where 99% of the conservations start when she calls you. Otherwise she's still not going to get the time she is asking for. Though I would stress counciling either the week of or the week after you two were to live in different places.

 

She sounds stubborn, but councilors are trained to deal with that. My fiancee is the same way. On our way to our first session she said 'If the councilor says something I dont agree with, im leaving'. Well, she said alot of things that showed my fiancee what was going wrong, and it was because of her actions. She was able to say it in a way where my fiancee wanted to change.

 

 

As I said before, we aired some laundry the other night...but I never told her and have not told her just how much she means to me since I was told to back off my emotions...because all it does is show weakness. She saw me crying yesterday as we cleaned and spiffed up the house for appraisal......

 

Shows weakness? Who told you that? Anytime one person in a relationship things they have the upper hand, both end up losing. It's not about a power struggle, and if your psychologist is the one who mentioned this, then I would have some doubts about him. Nothing wrong with showing emotions. Saying 'I love you' over & over during a time like this probably won't give much of a response from her. No reason to play the head games. Just have a heart to heart, tell her how you feel & then let it go.

 

Remember a marriage takes two. Sounds like both of you have issues. Your insecurity, which would be cured by her showing some affection and her stubborness to wanting to resolve these issues with a councilor.

[Poconobob]

So first, I'll have to tell her in some sort of delicate way that you're not going to tell me what she says, understanding this isn't a cyber buddy thing.

 

She just called me from work, stated that she wants THIS house out of the picture, things will become clearer after the house gets sold. She reiterated, she has told me she wants a divorce, however initially we should sell the house, separate for an undetermined amount of time, allow our son to decide where he goes and who he is with, then take things as they come. She knows she does not want to go on and on and on like this and for us to begin to do this, we've first got to sell the house as the debt does not allow for her to live a separate life and however hard it is for her, this isn't easy for her and we've just got to do this.

 

She wants to get the appraisal from this "expert" coming over today, then perhaps this weekend since she is off, go to a state park and all talk. She said I probably will be surprised at what our son says as she thinks he does not want to live with "mom" and wants dad. I know though for him, he needs to reconnect with his mother as he has felt a separation from his mother. What this does to me is makes me SPLIT...On one hand, I want to go back to my support system in florida for many reasons, the other part of me wants to stay and allow my son to live with me "somewhere", then also give space, try to reconnect with my wife. I have tons of friends in florida, it is a comfort zone, yet...leaving will definitely make me yearn for something I don't have to come home to which is my family, yet deep, deep, deep down inside I know I'm not happy or going to be happier here without friends, and by the same deep, deep down inside feeling, I know I'm not going to be happy THERE without my son especially nor the even slightest of chances of getting back together.

 

One thing is for certain, we cannot go on like this, she is being driven by emotions previously felt when I left for a couple weeks right after our first big blow out. She stated during my absence, our son asked constantly if she missed me, "I miss Dad" constantly....and all that so she said she doesn't want to go through that again.

 

The last thing she said was, well we'll see what this realtor says and go from there....She also said that the summer is the time to sell and selling the house does not bring things to a final close as she doesn't know what she wants after a period of separation.

 

She said during separation, she does not want to date others, just wants peace and quiet, allowed to work on her career, and allowed to have a chance to live life without me around. She just cannot go on like this, cannot go on with the way things are.

 

I didn't bring up a counselor, you don't talk about those things on the phone.

 

So given the aformentioned, here is all I can come up with....Sell the house, heck with it, it is just a house, besides we're kind of remote up here on top of a mountain with few neighbors, secondly, I'll go to Florida, put my wares in a storage unit??, stay there for a couple/three months, then return, get an apartment OR something like a house to rent or buy. Then, "attempt" during that 3 months to get her to come to a reasonable agreement to seek counceling, or whatever.

 

I'm just so confused, as I believe she is since she goes back and forth....I do believe she thinks she will gain happiness by having me gone.

 

I never thought at this juncture of life that I'd be in such a major mess....

 

I don't want to be away from my broken family, I don't want to start over, I don't want to continue this way, I don't want to be by myself, I don't want to do ANYTHING she desires.....that is the root of the problem is we're totally on opposite sides, have differing view points, have different solutions.

 

So here I sit once again, totally screwed up...

 

BTW, perhaps another email telling her you are helping me to understand how to go through all this and what she thinks is important and that you are in Pa also and not my cyber buddy but someone who has been through it, someone who has dealt with it, and spell out your side/position. You cannot "TELL" her anything, when someone is deeply rooted in their emotions, telling them is like my ignoring what she says when she says she wants space, it only serves to push her away.

bob

[jmargel]

Hi Bob,

 

You are probably going to need your son, and him needing you the most through this. That's why I would suggest to stay up here. You can still talk to your psychologist on the phone anytime you need. If your son feels abandoned by his mom, and you leave then he's going to have some major problems. Sounds like your wife has abandoned you & her son. Doesn't she feel bad about what she has done to him?

 

If she wants to sell the house, then put it on the market. But I can't stress enough that both of you need to goto counciling, now. Not three months from now. She hasn't emailed me back yet, but I will give it one more shot. In my first email I told her I was about 2 hours south of the Poconos.

 

If you two are under a fiancial burden, with her only working that can also contribute to this mess. When you work 60-70 hours a week just to life the higher lifestyle you can't really enjoy it. You mentioned before she works alot, and doesn't have any time for herself. Everyone needs that.

[Poconobob]

I agree, getting out from under this house will free up a MAJOR burden...WE started with wooded virgin land and it cost quite a bit to clear and clean up. That makes for getting profit out of what was spent....yesterday, we had a pro access the house and it was more in line with what I thought. Therefore, very little left over after payoff, the burden of leftover bills such as the sears bill for appliances. It isn't as if I wanted to be rich from the sale but I was told by her that I'd get back my investment which included settlement money from my accident which is supposed to take care of my future medical bills, outside insurance. Anyway, after finding this, I said I'm not going to just roll over on 5K clear just to get out because you want out, it is not fair, as I told her when in Florida, I said I wanted to put my settlement into HER as well as MY dream home....for our future, etc....and it has not even been two years since moving up her let alone living in the house. Anyway, she got furious and said she'd walk on bills and everything....then said I'm lucky because my parents have deep pockets. I'll quote my parents comments which basically say that they are not going to help her divorce me. BUT in confidence they said if she walks, they'd do something....

She wants OUT worse and worse as her emotions toil and she lashes out at me and I am kind of sick of it so I give her back some valid points. I try and try to be civil...

 

Oh, by the way, this realtor said it will be at least 6-8 months to sell....so there still is time to try to work on solving our problem(s). I told her last night that WE needed to have family counceling for Bryan to deal with the issues. She just stared then looked up at the ceiling... I've got no idea "how" to get her to go to counceling....She keeps telling me that she knows what she wants, also knows what she has told me and I should know what she told me which is she wants OUT.

 

As for our son, she has TOTALLY done to him what she has done to me....Almost identical, but has said to me that she knows what he will say as far as who he wants to live with and it will be ME....and went on to say I have no idea how that hurts.

 

Tonight, she wants to tell him what we're doing, i.e., selling the house and splitting up. Last night, after looking in the paper, she said she is stuck here as she doesn't want to sign a lease for a one bedroom apt...so she said **** it, I might as well move into the spare bedroom NOW. She moved her arse into the room with her book and read for a while, then went to bed. That's about it for now...

 

Here is the link to the ebook I was emailed, it outlines some of the things to do to stop a divorce. It was then that I called the guy who said it is like $500 for an hour and it may take 3 sessions but he has a 95% success rate.

http://www.stopyourdivorce.com/goto.htm

 

The words within it kind of parallel what I was told about act happy, don't argue, agree even if it hurts....

I'm despirate to get her to at least LISTEN to reason instead of relying on her stubborn emotions.

 

However, I'm not inclined to say I'm $500 dollars despirate, YET....he said though he has a method to stop all this and can deal with her emotional side rather than her wishes.

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Hey Bob,

I don't know if this will help but here's another viewpoint. You said you were addicted to Morphine? Which when given by a physician for pain, isn't your fault. However, I remember when my brother in law was addicted (he too had a terrible car wreck and kept taking more and more for pain till nothing worked but morphine, he has since come off of everything and is taking one pill...sometimes people get overmedicated even by their most trusted and professional doctors) and I remember what it was like for his wife and children. Have you ever thought about the Hell your wife may have gone through during this time?? Although it was totally unintentional plus you weren't even at yourself to know, it may have been one horrid experience. Even when you were just on pain medication, it could have alter your personality and rationality to the point that you were driving her crazy....

 

Plus, has the accident caused you to become a far more different person than you were when you got married? These aren't not excuses for her to cheat (if she is or ever did, I don't know) but it could be something that could contribute as to why she finally was "finished" with the marriage.

 

It seems to me that alot of what is going on seems to have alot to do with the aftershocks of your car accident. It seems like your life changed alot, from your being employed to moving far away and then your physical complications that lead to mental...

 

I wouldn't fork out $500.00 if she isn't willing to try to work things out. I would talk to her about the accident and everything that involves and see if all this is related. If you find out alot of this is related then perhaps you could get her to seek counseling concering this and then from there, work on your marriage.

 

Also, would you say that perhaps you are by nature, a controlling person? It sounds like things have been arranged in way (maybe not even on purpose) that your wife has had to depend solely on you. Except for her job, you've had the funds (which you have admitted that you want to spend on her!) and have the backup (Parent's with deep pockets) to do whatever you want or need in your life. She may resent that and now that she is doing well with her job, she wants to test the waters of independence. Or even though she loves you and your son, she may feel trapped and backed into a corner and all she can do is come out fighting....Have you ever been violent with her? Hit her. pushed or threatened to? Perhaps during the pain med episode?

 

Just try to find out what she wants, needs and what's bothered her lately. Try to give her a safe environment where she can answer you honestly...

 

I hope things can work out before the separation. I can tell you want to stay married to her and love her.

Good luck and God Bless!

[jmargel]

Bob

 

I know you may feel like it's ending fast, but don't let this guy who has a '95%' rate, scam you out of $500. Even marriage councilors don't have that high of a success rate. Every relationship / situation is different. And I can guarantee once you hand over your $500, and he does his sessions or whatever, you'll fall into that 5% failure, just like the next person that comes along. It's a scam.

 

Your wife needs space. Vivian made a good post as well. Only your wife can answer this, but good chance she probably doesn't have any time to think about things, so that's why she is asking about leaving. Let her come to you when she is ready. Right now all your insecurities & everything else about what you were doing wrong is being tested in a way. She's not testing you, but the situation itself is.

 

 

She wants OUT worse and worse as her emotions toil and she lashes out at me and I am kind of sick of it so I give her back some valid points

 

Valid points? Bob, you aren't quite getting it. You have to communicate better with her. Which means not actually talking when I mean communicating better, but to listen & understand. Make HER points validated, don't come up with your own.

 

If I were in your shoes & she would mention about leaving I would then say 'I can understand why you would leave, the way I treated you in the past & I'm sorry. It's a decision that I know you have to make on your own, and I only want the best for you no matter what that may be'. That is something you also have to believe too. What that does is then validate her point, and even though you do want the best for her you still have her feel cornered.

 

She needs to open upto you but you aren't giving her the chance. Doing this & hopefully with some counciling might be able to resolve the problems between you.

[Poconobob]

"Also, would you say that perhaps you are by nature, a controlling person? It sounds like things have been arranged in way (maybe not even on purpose) that your wife has had to depend solely on you. Except for her job, you've had the funds (which you have admitted that you want to spend on her!) and have the backup (Parent's with deep pockets) to do whatever you want or need in your life. She may resent that and now that she is doing well with her job, she wants to test the waters of independence. Or even though she loves you and your son, she may feel trapped and backed into a corner and all she can do is come out fighting....Have you ever been violent with her? Hit her. pushed or threatened to? Perhaps during the pain med episode?"

 

 

Well, perhaps you know me more than I'd admit. First let me clear up something....I've NEVER, NEVER, NEVER hit her or pushed her or anything like that, she is a pistol and wouldn't stand for that. Part of my problem, and yes it is a problem is that she is my best friend, and I DEEPLY have seeded roots to the virtues of marriage. In that, you don't go out "with the boys", my place is in the home with my family. She too didn't do that and has not done that at all...

She too is or was I should say attached to me as a best friend. We talked about anything, talked at night in bed nice and quietly about everything, went out to dinner together, had lots of friends in Florida. Since coming up here to Pa...she has made no friends I know of outside work, absolutely HATED it here because she couldn't find a good job, and we'd said we would move if things didn't improve. I was left here atop a mountain with little support, NO COUNCELING, nobody to talk to and in pain. As I recall back, it was the same pain I had in Florida and I was promised by my doc that the morphine patches would make the pain go away. It did alright, it numbed the pain of life in which all I did was buy things to get me to have PLEASURE, meanwhile, she has not been happy. I no longer was the person making her happy, supporting her, and I'd often wile away the days online, often into the evenings.

It was something I knew had to change, I sought different solutions....they made different med changes and YES in fact I was over medicated, however, here is the thing. Her distain goes back over years of being happy off and on, and she says at this juncture that she doesn't know if things will work out later on as she has no crystal ball and that IF she had to decide right now, it would be NO, we're going to eventually divorce. But, she'd like to say we tried separation, perhaps it will be better and she can get over some of the things and give it another try but again, no crystal ball, no promises, and probably not based on her feelings now.

 

My problem is that we both are controlling....truly two people that controlled each other and now, she has this career, has focus, has a life, and she does not want me to be a part of it. She says she is 110% certain she wants out, is certain she wants to be independent of me, states we are both currently not happy, our son isn't happy, and this isn't truly a HOME whereas in Florida, it was a home...this is a house, just that, a house, no warm fuzzy memories here, in fact we lost two of our dogs which we had for 12 and 15 years respectively. It seems like lots of the emotions started about that time....LOTS of the problems started around the time we buried the first dog in August, and the second in Jan...Her PAL was Fred, our eldest who died in Jan...she was torn up, I was crying all the time, all messed up on meds, she was working extremely LONG, LONG hours, becoming closer friends with her boss.

 

 

So, anyway, here we are .... one has become VERY stubborn, the other, me, holding guilt, anxiety, uncertainty of my future, and quite frankly not knowing how the heck I'll ever meet anyone up to the standards which I hold true. By the way, I'm perfectly medicated now, have not had a clearer picture of life in a long, long time. That might be part of it is my isolation factor in that I'm emotionally attached too.

 

Oh well..

 

thanks,

 

bob

[Poconobob]

Originally posted by jmargel

Bob

 

I know you may feel like it's ending fast, but don't let this guy who has a '95%' rate, scam you out of $500. Even marriage councilors don't have that high of a success rate. Every relationship / situation is different. And I can guarantee once you hand over your $500, and he does his sessions or whatever, you'll fall into that 5% failure, just like the next person that comes along. It's a scam.

 

Your wife needs space. Vivian made a good post as well. Only your wife can answer this, but good chance she probably doesn't have any time to think about things, so that's why she is asking about leaving. Let her come to you when she is ready. Right now all your insecurities & everything else about what you were doing wrong is being tested in a way. She's not testing you, but the situation itself is.

 

 

 

 

Valid points? Bob, you aren't quite getting it. You have to communicate better with her. Which means not actually talking when I mean communicating better, but to listen & understand. Make HER points validated, don't come up with your own.

 

If I were in your shoes & she would mention about leaving I would then say 'I can understand why you would leave, the way I treated you in the past & I'm sorry. It's a decision that I know you have to make on your own, and I only want the best for you no matter what that may be'. That is something you also have to believe too. What that does is then validate her point, and even though you do want the best for her you still have her feel cornered.

 

She needs to open upto you but you aren't giving her the chance. Doing this & hopefully with some counciling might be able to resolve the problems between you.

 

I've held inside only things which SHE said then took back. It seems like over the past week that all hell has broken out as she feels backed into a corner with no way out. I only pointed out last night that she'd said I would get my investment back which I MUST have if we split to pay for certain medical bills. I said that we just can't sell to the first person who offers and fogs a mirror so to speak.

 

I DO have a problem with my mouth, always have had the problem of not knowing when to shut the hell up and let it go. I will promise from this point on to let her talk, me shut up, and go about things like she is right and I am sorry. I've shown over and over that I'm sorry but I believe that she thinks I don't trust her, case in point was the linens hanging and I bumped them with my elbow and THAT was when she just exploded. Unfortunately, I did fight back and you've told me over and over and over as well as my doctor to shut up, avoid confrontation, and to be understanding with empathy, not sympathy. I won't make any headway this way. I MUST stop the talking with my parents as all they do is stur me up.

 

I wish she'd email you back, damn. I know we need counseling, perhaps she does not know what by definition counseling is? I think she just doesn't want to rehash all the things that I've put in this long list of posts. I also think she thinks she'll be told to CURE the marriage, not discuss it. My understanding of it from an independent point of view would help me.

 

I've been as candid as I can be....always candid as I can be.

 

All I want in life is a woman who cares for me as I do for her, to not fight, to live in equality. I just don't have ANY idea what I've done so wrong for so so so long that she says it isn't just the now things, it is LOTS of things from the past too....

 

From what I recall, I worked 70 hrs a week, put her through school on a single income with having two decent cars, having plenty to eat, and a nice home. We did plenty together and now...well, I need advice on healing.

 

So advice on healing won't happen first until SHE no longer feels backed into a corner, until she no longer is feeling trapped, and she is able to vent. I on the other hand need to be more understanding of this fact, accept that whatever comes my way will come and I can only control my own space. For whatever reason, I'm ready to be nice again....I'd made some good changes and stopped pestering her and I'm seeing myself digress back to my fighting back and I see it gets me nowhere.

 

bob

[Poconobob]

Last evening, she was supposed to tell our son she was selling the house, separating, etc.....BUT she didn't, instead she wanted to go out to dinner as a family which we did. Absolutely nothing, absolute normal....

 

It seems like all this has come on all of a sudden since she now really feels stuck since financially she can't move out.

 

My doctor is supposed to call me tonight, he says I need to be happy for myself and feels strongly I'm attaching myself to her just as much as a cope mechanism because I don't feel pride. He says pride is something a woman looks for in a man, not one who dwells on his past poor me syndrome from not having the career, the stature, nor the fun of working. Yes, working is fun, people used to tell me how "lucky" I was not to have to work and I'll tell you, I'm not the type that likes to just sit. THAT to me has degraded my love of life and all, heck, I'm in the midst of the typical most employable years and I'm not working. I also am a normally outspoken person; I ran two car dealerships and worked in the industry for 15 years and loved it.....I put my wife through college and look what it got me, lol.....kidding, actually to a great extent I feel compelled to work again, to focus my energy on a positive and not such a negative as "what am I going to do"....poor me, she is leaving me, etc.

 

By the way, she jumped on me after she called "someone" at work and played a practical joke on the phone....my son said who did you call, she said Shawn, her boss....THEN, after Bryan walked out of the room, she said...."see, I'm damed if I do, damned if I don't" say who I was with. Just like the trip, I didn't say who I went with and you see it doesn't matter. I said, you're right, I did a lot of things you didn't like and I'm sorry for that, in fact I'm sorry for everything I've done to hurt you ...and I can't change what I did and that is frustrating.

So J you are right! I used just what you said about getting back to agreeing and man what a difference...

 

Is she looking for things to test me? She says she knows she wants to sell the house, separate but doesn't know anything else.... I REALLY don't want to fight to make the ending of this "chapter" hard on her so there is no ill will IF we decide to give it a shot later on. Am I wrong for even thinking for a minute that it isn't over until it is over forever? Am I stupid for thinking with my heart? Or do I cast the last stone when we move away from each other?

 

BTW, I wouldn't be able to afford to stay here in the area because of the amount I'd get...So at least initially, I'd have to spend some time in my parents home in florida before I could move back up and "try" to date again. Then again, I could get a small apartment here IF I got enough for the house....it is so confusing.

 

bob

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

Just take it day by day. Don't worry about what's going to happen in 2 months or 2 weeks. Change the things you can about your life to the best of your abilities, and the things you can't, well just don't worry about them. I know it's hard not to, but worrying only makes things worse.

 

Women are attracted to confidence, pride and the ability to make decisions. Just like we are attracted to women who are affectionate and sometimes nuturing. I'm glad you see the difference now that you are understanding her a little better. It's usually not at the issue at hand that women are upset about, just that women get upset when they feel like they are misunderstood or not validated.

 

If she truly wants to leave, you have to respect that. Giving her this option will show her that what you say is what you mean. In that you do want her to be happy no matter what. This should speak volumes to her, since this is what I believe she wants in you. I still really hope she considers counciling. With the right councilor, things heal so much quicker.

 

I don't think she is trying to 'test' you. Remember she is confused as well. If she truly wanted out, she would've left everything behind and been gone by now. This is her way of venting to you, telling you how much she's been hurt in the past. She's not doing this to be vengeful or hateful. She's doing this to cope with everything she's been through.

 

Are you physically able to work yet? Maybe you want to consider working in the community or something. That'll boost your own self-worth, which you have to remember to take care of yourself through all of this as well.

[Poconobob]

I've tried and tried...seemingly to no avail. Last night she did tell our son we are splitting up for a trial period. Whatever that is?? Selling the house and are going to live separate. He is all torn up... I'm all torn up, feel depressed which I guess is normal.

It should take months to sell, at least that is what we're told and we're living under the same roof until then.

Part of me wants to write her a letter and email it as everytime I try to talk about it, I get choaked up, the other half wants to tell her I'd do anything, ANYTHING she wants. I just don't get what space will do...I wish there was someone I could lean on and tell them all and see if there is a strategy to stop this madness. Other times, I just want to sell, move away for a while and try to make adjustments to life alone. However, I know the chances are slim that once we separate that we'll get back together. But then again, being farther away may make things worse, not better. She thinks I should go to Florida....For a few reasons, one, I'd have a place to stay, see my doc to deal with this, BUT will I be happy is the question. Then comes the issue of furnature....omg, this is so confusing, do I store the stuff up here, do I get a place up here, do I sell the stuff...

As for working, I look totally normal, I don't have limits, just the problem of headaches, constant pain, other than that, I can even go weight lift, lead a normal active life. I lost my position back in '98, went back into sales that December, and in June '99 was placed on disability because I couldn't work the longer hours....it wasn't me that wanted disability, otherwise I would have gone in '98, it was the employer....telling me I had to work a full schedule or find another job. Some loyalty after working for them for almost 12 of my 15 years in the car business. Anyway, ALL the problems, ALL the hurt, all the anger, frustration, etc has been since becoming disabled. Enough of that...to answer the question, I feel I can work, my doctor(s) feel I cannot yet. However, they go on my disability not my ability, not my stubborn desire to work. IF I work, I lose immediately part of my disability pension, not a ton, about a grand....BUT I still would get SS disability for 9 months. The question would remain, can I or can I not cope. Certainly focusing my attention to my career again would be a very happy thing. I've thought about it but is it a convoluded thought because I'm bored here? I've volunteered without any problems working on the phones with getting donations for disabled people without income or transportation. It wasn't long after that that I was in that car accident. It seems after this accident she REALLY pushed to separate...was like really soon after.

 

I have the opportunity to date...I'm a very outwardly open person who is smiling and friendly, I just have not dated nor for that matter literally have not touched another woman in 17 years. But, as odd as that sounds that someone isn't looking to hook up with anyone, I'm approached by ladies, I just am scared now of 'em...sure, I am nice back but nice as if they were just another person, not a female. I don't know their motivation either...last thing I want is to fall into another relationship while my heart is elsewhere. Cathy has said she doesn't want to date others, just separate but I don't know if I can do that. It is just something inside where I've never been totally alone, and I've been loveless since Feb and am lonely for the touch of a woman. I don't know how she could be otherwise either....she has always been sexual.

 

I was told by grandma that she has been around for 90 years and don't be stupid and think that B has not cheated on me. If you like I can tell more that I didn't say but I can say this, she'd started working long hours, came home one night with marks on her leg, red marks like if you had your leg across a proped up part of a desk. She got RED and said oh it must be from my treadmill....this was a while back. She went on birth control, I was told that was a sign as well as her never wearing t back undies EVER and all of a sudden was, and losing weight, spraying cologne on her privates and being missing from work for hours during the day. I don't have proof though....that is the missing link. I'm not as distrusting as others are but I'm told it is because I'm faithful so I assume she is.... She has changed, perhaps all for her own self image, I think that is what it is... See, now she has this career, and is going places and I must be an anchor and she said she wants to see if she is happier without me looking over her shoulder. We're missing mutual trust, 100% trust of me not looking over her shoulder because we're not sleeping together, her actions make anyone wonder which results in my added psychoanalysis of everything she does. She I believe is not trusting me thinking I don't trust her. So there is this barrier and lack of communication.

No matter what, things can be repaired if both parties are willing to discuss and focus on wanting to seek help. She just won't do it, I believe backed into a corner and sees only way out is separation at this time. I need to reverse the tide, gain her trust during the months forthcoming, and then go from there.

 

I went back over the posts and can't find Carolyn's number, I was going to ask her if she is able to help me to understand what my wife is going through, to seek counseling on just myself, for myself, and IF later on Cathy would like to join, so be it.

 

bob

[Indie]

I'm sorry Bob.

 

Usually, when you feel something isn't right..it's not. Either something

is going on, or she doesn't care whether you think something is going on,

and both indicate she doesn't care about you.

 

The fact that you haven't felt this way for all those years of marriage before

is a warning sign. Confront her.

 

If she isn't cheating, and you are nice about it, she won't get angry.

 

If she IS cheating, and you are nice about it, she'll get mad.

 

Trust me on this one.

[Poconobob]

Originally posted by Indie

I'm sorry Bob.

 

Usually, when you feel something isn't right..it's not. Either something

is going on, or she doesn't care whether you think something is going on,

and both indicate she doesn't care about you.

 

The fact that you haven't felt this way for all those years of marriage before

is a warning sign. Confront her.

 

If she isn't cheating, and you are nice about it, she won't get angry.

 

If she IS cheating, and you are nice about it, she'll get mad.

 

Trust me on this one.

 

Indie,

In all the years, once, only once I accused her of it and she blew up like crazy....blamed my meds, went with me to my doc and eventually changed jobs and didn't say another thing. She was losing weight, seems like when she lost weight I took it as a sign....this time however, she states that she has realized that she can't stand this stuff anymore. She says exercise has given her a clear understanding of what she feels and that I THINK she is on an ego trip. Her job is like life to her, she states she can do no wrong, she says all the time that corporate has the attention, bla bla bla....and they do, she has turned around a clinic, HAD no other nurses in the clinic, had no help and turned it around BUT at the expense of her family. It is this family situation that just worsened over the year. Things got really bad in Nov when she began to lose weight, kind of ignored my birthday, December when her mom was in, she was okay but not stopping the long hours....it just degraded as time went on. I was on morphine patches for pain, I don't have a clear understanding of what went on except for what I know which is that she was working long hours and changed.

 

It now seems like she isn't cheating if she were as she isn't displaying the same traits. IF she were, perhaps the pressure from the Mr. in her life is pushing her, I don't know. If I had to pick a person, it would be her boss.....she has said long ago that he is good looking, and would say lots of things about him to me.

 

I have no evidence....the birth control I know for a fact was because of her periods being really, really, really bad, you couldn't help but miss those things such as having to use a tampon and pad that was the thickest.

 

Well, what do I do now? We both have done things--I accused her--there is way too much to go back and say about it but I'm just sick over the whole thing.

We want two different things; I want to go to counseling, she wants nothing to do with it...seems everything I want, she does not.

 

She has said she has tried and it isn't working....

 

I need to go get out of here and exercise, clear my mind and exercise.

 

bob

[jmargel]

Indie, that is not always the case. Maybe perhaps in your situation. I would never cheat on my fiancee, and if she were to ask if I was cheating, yea I would get upset some. I would wonder why she doesnt trust me.

 

Carolyn's number is 570-743-2323

 

Bob her intent is to seperate so let her. Don't assume things won't work out once this happens. It's upto her on whether the relationship with you is worthwhile enough not to goto someone else during this time. If she does, then you know that she's given up on the relationship and you gave everything you got. If she's not willing to goto counciling or try to mend what's wrong then in all reality there isn't much you can do. If she is cheating, may god have mercy on her soul. To me, cheating is a deal-breaker. She married you for better or for worse.

 

I don't know what's going through her head, only she knows. Maybe one day she'll look back on all of this and regret not going to counciling, regret moving out and regret acting this way. At some point in time, she needs to take whatever anger she has & try to transform it into something positive. I would hope she wouldn't use her son to get to you, by saying these things about leaving and then crying 'wolf'. I believe she may need individual therapy as well. But she needs to recognize that by just moving away isn't going to solve anything. She's running away from her problems, which will just manifest itself into something else if she does get into another relationship.

 

Hang in there..

[Poconobob]

She isn't using our son as a tool, that I know as she didn't want to tell him until absolutely certain that she wanted to do this. As for separating, the real estate people say 6 months avg to sell so it isn't like it will be tomorrow...but I can't get out of my head that I want to try to reassure her I won't do the bad things like I've told you. It always comes to a head whenever we fight, only when we fight, otherwise civil.....she IS focused now on selling the house, it might not be a bad idea. I'd rather give in and put it on the market, it is only a house...What perplexes me is what to do afterward, like I said, I need time to think after it is all over what I'm going to do. I guess my not knowing is driving my angst....

Is it true once you separate that there is little if any hope? I read once in a while in the forums about people who get back together with their X... My wife wants to NOT date others... she wants time away. I feel like leaving now and letting her deal with things without me now so she could see what it is like without me while the house is on the market. If I did that, heck, time would be there for her to decide, she'd have hours to think, and all. My father tells me to get strong and stay, don't leave....I have a vested interest in the house sale and will get back the procedes so I should stay. Ya, she wants me to have the profit on the house since it was my money from working/settlement which was invested for US and she acknowledges that.

I think once we separate and have time apart, she'll then do therapy.....Carolyn won't do individual then couple therapy. What type individual therapy does she do anyway? I called and left a message... Hope she can give me a bit of insight.

 

I'd said I was gonna exercise and I am so I will check back later...

 

bob

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

Maybe it may be best that you leave for awhile. Find a small place around your area until the house sells. If she wants space then give it to her. Waiting around for the house to sell is going to be torture. It's apparent she is being too stubborn to even consider counciling. If she thinks time by herself might help things then now is the time to do it. Look for apartments this weekend. Maybe after some time she might reconsider & goto counciling with you.

 

Either way, action needs to be taken. She knows that you are sorry about the things you've done in the past, it just may take time for her to heal from it all. Like I said I don't know what she feels or thinks. She hasn't written back to me.

 

Remember don't put all of the blame on yourself. She has been working long hours as well, which really damages a relationship in the long run. Most doctors are divorced because of that reason. She's also neglected her son in ways too. She is thinking everything is your fault and nothing is of hers. That's rarely ever the case. She needs to take responsibility for her actions as well.

 

It might do you some good too to get away from it all and think. The definition of insanity is when two people keep trying the samething over & over, expecting different results. To me, she hasn't tried to save this marriage yet. But you also have to listen to what she is saying, that she's not against trying to, but that she needs time & space first.

[Poconobob]

If leaving were the solution, she would have been able to leave and would have left. At some point though I have to get out of here for a time...after the house goes on the market I will. It is enormously stressful knowing what is inevitable....

As my parents whom I've shared everything with say, she wants OUT, she wants to work on her career and thinks it is all me and once I'm gone, all her troubles will go away. So you guys are on the same sheet about that except they think that it is inevitable that divorce is coming because she has said she isn't in love with me, is stubborn and has said she doesn't think even separating will work.....so I should face facts, she doesn't want to be with me, I should accept it and move on. Great if things work out later but don't plan on it....plan on things I can not the what IF.

 

I know the insanity thing....I used to tell salespeople that definition when they would over and over again do something and expect a different result. Honestly, I know she says she has tried but HAS SHE? Perhaps in her mind sticking it out was her way of waiting it out, seeing IF her feelings changed, seeing if she felt any different. That is what I think she used to say she tried....

 

I agree, I need a vacation, I need to have some time to think...to get away, to think for myself and it is very distructive being like this. It certainly does nothing proactive towards making myself better. All I want to do since the accident is rest, I have no energy, my head hurts and this crap on top of it all. Getting an apartment and further isolating myself won't help me at this point....remember, this is all her idea, not mine and there is only so much I can do to bend. If she agreed that we could go to counseling if I moved out, YA I'd do it....but at this point she has to reach down deep inside and accept that she too has faults and I'm not totally to blame. Sure she has said we've had problems together but does she really mean it to take some of the responsibility? Talk is cheap....she has to also take a step forward. Otherwise, I'm spinning my wheels and would have considered her moved out into an apartment last week and been separated already. Her feeling backed into a corner is just how I feel....up against a wall with nowhere to go. If only I could get some relief from these headaches perhaps I would be better off and able to think better, huh.

 

I am gonna go take some anger out on the weeds with the mower...I need some fresh air.

 

bob

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

Just hang in there & try to relax some. I won't be able to post this weekend, so make the best of it as you can. Just try to do something fun with her & your son. By the way, my name is Jeff

[Poconobob]

You have a great weekend....

 

I have not lost hope, I just worked out in the outside for a while and worked away some anguish. My son said that Mom told him we are only going to separate for a trial period and WANTS us to date, wants ME to live in the area and not to leave, just needs time.

 

I spoke with Carolyn, she has no openings at all so I'm out.....I tried and tried and tried to get her to even allow me to see her in say a month but no go. Back to square one...arggg

 

I'm gonna have a serious talk with her this weekend and make sure she knows how much I love her and that I'll do anything, anything, anything....but if that isn't enough, so be it.

 

regards,

 

bob