jmargel Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Bob, If she was having an affair, I think she would be smart enough to wash them herself. Have your son ask her where she was all day. Women have that discharge, from what other women say. I don't know first hand because any laundry I do of my fiancee's, I don't look in her crotch area. If she is asking for time, then give it to her. I mentioned before that it might be beneficial that you go off on your own for a weekend without any contact with her. Giving her time isn't giving her time to cheat on you. If she's saying she is not going to date others, then that's a pretty clear sign that she probably isn't cheating. Whether she is cheating or not shouldn't be the issue at hand. You know what they are. And if the .01% chance she is cheating, then the guilt will eventually surface. Don't let the old demons come back, when they try convince yourself otherwise. You are suppose to be her friend & companion. This isn't acting like one. When she comes home tell her you are going out, and give her a few hours by herself. She'll appreciate it quite a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 Originally posted by jmargel Bob, If she was having an affair, I think she would be smart enough to wash them herself. Have your son ask her where she was all day. Women have that discharge, from what other women say. I don't know first hand because any laundry I do of my fiancee's, I don't look in her crotch area. If she is asking for time, then give it to her. I mentioned before that it might be beneficial that you go off on your own for a weekend without any contact with her. Giving her time isn't giving her time to cheat on you. If she's saying she is not going to date others, then that's a pretty clear sign that she probably isn't cheating. Whether she is cheating or not shouldn't be the issue at hand. You know what they are. And if the .01% chance she is cheating, then the guilt will eventually surface. Don't let the old demons come back, when they try convince yourself otherwise. You are suppose to be her friend & companion. This isn't acting like one. When she comes home tell her you are going out, and give her a few hours by herself. She'll appreciate it quite a bit. We've always used "Shout" on undergarments....and saying such stuff as I noticed this and that seems to get me in the trick bag, I'm NOT just checking her stuff, I do all of our shirts, pants, any stain. But then again, I'm putting this in text not saying it so it does sound different. Did I mention by the way she got two identical pair of the same underwear and there isn't two pair now, only one. So where is the second pair? The same thing happened when she took her trip...then a few days later they showed up in her drawer. This isn't paranoia, it is a fact. Oh and I never mentioned it but she does have duplicates of others but I never EVER checked for a missing pair until this came up. I know, I know, we both don't think she is cheating....I wanna emphasize the point she is doing this is the only point. And never will I say she is cheating unless I have proof. Furthermore, I'm not confronting her, however she called me today out of the blue and started on WHEN will we sell the house, what are we doing, etc. There definitely is someone coaching her, that I do know....the tell tale signs are there of that. Nobody knows if it is a fellow divorcee, a friend, or who. Today, I asked politely if she would do counseling for us to be able to handle dismantling our 17 years and she said NO, "I want this over and done with"....and "too bad if bryan can't handle it". Bryan is like really messed up over it all, obviously, it would do some good for family counseling as I put it. With this new job, starting tomorrow I won't be home until going on 9pm every other night, almost every Saturday, and will be home Sunday's. She'll have plenty of space, she'll do as she has when I'm home, come home, exercise, and off to her room and read. My doc said it all will surface eventually so that is why I let it all go.....honestly, I let it go more than I let on, I vent here more than it actually is seeming to be. So if a mention is made of something I note, I'm not screaming fire, fire, but rather saying, this is my journal and I'm sharing it with the world. This has all helped me cope, grow stronger, and though hard to explain, it does help. I don't think I could have come this far without your help, that is a compliment. She was pleased to hear I'm going to work, it was sincere....Jeff, this will make four MAJOR changes I've made in my life in as many months. I've stopped prescription meds, I've started exercising daily, I've changed the poor me co dependent need for her for happiness, stopped and I mean stopped the OCD on what she is thinking, and now I'll work. I have also become as nonconfrontational as I've ever been; by that I mean not feeding into things which piss me off and in that I don't show anger either. TONS of little things I let bother me before were because of codependency like IF she worked late, I'd get upset because it was an emotion I had to have her around for my happiness. Being a buddy went too far...and became a demon. Remember, I had her around and we were inseparable, LITERALLY we did everything together, not just at my request but at her request. She worked 3 days a week for just about the past 5 years and now that she is Ms. Corporate, she works 6 and is paid almost the same as when she worked 3 days plus one day overtime. All that could be gathered if I were a dick would be that she wants to be away, but the truth is, she loves the job, she is finally getting the cudo's of all the years of college....and I didn't change, she did. It is darn well time I 'inspect' what I expect of myself which I've done and now it is time to put forth the effort to continue to not digress as with this previous post. I promise, no demons are coming back......no self pity, etc. I'm not doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. As a matter of fact, I have to do things different and different and expect no different result and if something does change, great, if not then I can't beat myself senseless over it. We two are individuals living in modern society, I don't OWN her, and likewise...with that in mind, a marriage too today has taken a step backwards. At least that is the way I see it overall....but eons ago people got married at 15 and lived to 40 too. Don't think I'm sliding down PLEASE....just venting. Respectfully, bob P.S. I'm going to post daily still....in the a.m. early, then also let ya know how things are going with me. I know one of her things is she wants this house listed....so be it. Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hi Bob, Like you said you need to do things for yourself. You asked her about counciling, and she says she just wants it over. With that said there really isn't much you can do. Let her have her way. Whether she comes back or not, only time will tell. Don't worry about whether she is or has cheated, start acting like you aren't with her anymore. Even though you live in the same house. If this is what she wants, then give it to her. Otherwise if you don't, she'll just want it more & more. Those changes that you have made are for yourself. When the house sells and she moves to a different place, don't go back to your old ways. A person can only try so much before just letting go. A relationship takes two to make it work and it's becoming apparent, at least for the time being that she doesn't want it too. Whether she has another man or not right now isn't a concern. Don't put this all on yourself either, it shows she has alot of issues she needs to deal with. If she can tell her own son that he just needs to 'deal with it', then that shows she is being very selfish and not caring. She needs time for herself to sort out why she is feeling this way. I personally think she is depressed with life in general. It's time to take small steps to move on. Let her go knowing you tried everything. Don't beat yourself up over things that happened in the past. Every couple does stupid things, and things were done on both your parts. Let her know that you are willing to let her go. That her happiness means alot to you, even though if it means not being with you. I know it may not be what you wanted to hear, but this day to day thing and her unwillingness to want to get back into the relationship is not healthy for you. She has made the decision and needs to live by it's consequences. Hang in there.. Link to post Share on other sites
unreal Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 It's time to take small steps to move on. Let her go knowing you tried everything. Don't beat yourself up over things that happened in the past. Every couple does stupid things, and things were done on both your parts. Let her know that you are willing to let her go. That her happiness means alot to you, even though if it means not being with you. I know it may not be what you wanted to hear, but this day to day thing and her unwillingness to want to get back into the relationship is not healthy for you. She has made the decision and needs to live by it's consequences. Hang in there.. This really makes me feel alot better this morning. I'm trying to realize that I did everything I could to keep my own relationship but she didn't want it. And I've been beating myself up daily for over a month now because of things that happened in the past. You are right, this day to day thing is not healthy for me. I keep forgetting that she left me and not me leaving her. She has made the decision like you said and now she will live with the consequences whether good or bad. Link to post Share on other sites
PUHLEEEEZE... Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Bob, honey: I've been following this post for awhile now. Isn't it time to start letting go? Whether or not she's cheating ... does it even really matter any more? Her actions have you sniffing around her panties for evidence, for Pete's sake! It just seems like when you get to that point, it's time to give it up. She's not the person destined for you, and the more time you waste on her, the less you will have with the one who is. If you really believe in love, end this charade and start the journey toward the genuine article. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 First of all, I'll say this for the last time...I don't sniff a friggen pair of underwear, that is sick. I am/was Mr. Mom, did laundry...I won't have time to do the laundry as I'm full time and she'll have to do it. You are all right in so far as I'm needing to move on, work on myself. Hey, speaking of my job, I made $900 yesterday...so talk about an esteem boost! This isn't like my job in Florida, it is much easier and pays more. I like this high line car stuff....and for all of you, especially for they guy flailing like I am, STOP, take a step back, try to INSPECT what you EXPECT of yourself and not what you expect of her. I spent too much time expecting things to go a certain way only to find they went the other way......destiny CAN be changed I believe only IF you do something different. Historically, the past repeats itself and if you can bring yourself to the point where you aren't doing the same things you did that got you to this point, then and only then will your esteem rise, and perhaps, only perhaps things will change. I was told that women are like a stray kitten when they are pushing away or have moved out.....in that example, say there is this stray kitten and you have a will to pick it up and hold it. But, the kitten is hurt and scared of people since it was harmed by humans....every time you walk towards it, it runs.....so what do you do? Sit, let her move closer and closer then you reach out thinking since the kitten is moving closer, you should move toward it. Nope, the kitten runs back away.....so you sit and sit waiting, eventually as you change your thinking and wait on the kitten to come to you, eventually she will move back, perhaps not...however chasing it as your will would suggest only makes the cat run...Our will is too strong, we have to wait and see. So how did the guy get the kitten to come to him? Well, he didn't push forward, he instead got a can of food...or in the example he did things different. It is up to the kitten's will to eat over being hungry or scared that will change the WILL of the kitten. The kitten and woman must trust enough to move in....and only then when things have changed can truly healing take place. I inspected what I expected....I expected things I didn't have, i.e., my career, happiness of feeling useful, happiness in being the "man" of the household.....sure I told myself I've changed but had I truly, NO.....bluntly, I still had in the back of my mind. If I only do this, things will change....If I only do that, things will change....then I expected something that didn't happen. Why? Easy....I didn't do a complete paradygm. I did only psychological change....I changed the way I thought I thought...but in essence the only thing that changed was I wasn't combative. I still worried what she was thinking.....and that was because my mind was SET on focusing on seeing little things which were "perhaps" a move like the kitten was doing when in essence all the kitty/wife did was raise her tail to show being friendly, not actually moving toward me. Over and over again, I did look for signs.....over and over again I tried to play psychologist. I can't change the way she thinks....I can only change the way I think.....so given that, I decided to do a major change along with the other things I've done to be a better person, to be a NORMAL person and I'm not looking for a receipt. I don't expect one, and guess what.....I GOT ONE yesterday, she said she was proud of me for going back to work, she said that it was the best thing I've done for "5" years.....she was so so so happy yesterday, happy like normal. But, what do I expect beyond that, nothing because I'm not going to inspect any deeper than a superficial acknowledgement that I did something she is pleased with, hence the tail is in the friendly mode, nothing more. All along, my doc and Jeff have been telling me over and over to change....but deep individual traits stayed the same. I was ALWAYS home, she had no personal time without me around, and she EXPECTED the same bob to be home every night upon her return, she EXPECTED bob to still be in his own little "disabled mode".... Only time will tell....BUT, destiny/marriage/life is something that isn't easily changed. Destiny my doc said is like a tree, the paths of life end at the ends of each branch, you cannot stay on the trunk as you'll eventually have to choose a path. For me, it was a long major branch long long ago I took which now has come to a fork, we went down one fork onto one that is less stable. Nobody said that you can't go back down the same branch and take another one.....you can't go on thinking you have to stay on the same branch, perhaps you have to go all the way back down that bad branch onto the limb, and back to the trunk and start over....BUT perhaps you can just go down the bad branch, sit...at the fork and see if you can decide to go to a higher, more stable, stronger branch without going back to the trunk and starting over. Should you decide to start over, it is okay, there are plenty of strong branches that don't have unstable limbs.... My doc also told me to STOP playing psychologist with myself....each talk we had was about her, he'd get pissed and yell at me saying what did I tell you, STOP telling me about her, tell me what you've done day to day to make yourself different, to improve my self image, to be once again happy. If you've followed the trials and tribulations of my life this year, it has mostly been HER HER HER....not me me me...therefore, truly I didn't change, I told myself I did but it was only a superficial change. No marriage counselor will be able to change such a person as myself unless I determine and accept the will of my change to be done. I feel today untied from things which have me entangled....I'm doing my own thing which makes me happy. I laughed, joked around, thought about another focus....and guess what, I did make people impressed with my aptitude yesterday. It isn't often someone walks in on the first day and sells every single customer they speak with. I was happy, I was confident in myself, I was dressed to a "T"....quite dapper, and if even the boost of ego by not being in my stretchie shorts and t shirt and wearing my suit...ready to make my mark by impressing others, by dressing for success, it came 3 fold. Toward the end of the day, the VP of the company over all 11 car lines came up to me and said he was impressed....said I sure talked a line when I wanted the job and he said the results show that I'm a winner. Later on, the President of the company was in to just chat with mgt over how the month went. I was waaaaaaay outside on the other end and the VP went and got me, introduced me to the President...said, I wanted to introduce you to a "FIND" we have. Here is a man from Florida who moved back to the area and I want to introduce you to him as I think he is going to be an asset; PAUSE....no, he is already an asset, Bob, we're glad to have you, this is so in so...Anyway, I ended up having a 15 minute standing interview with the president of the company who said rarely we get the kind of talent you possess....we're kind of out here in the middle of nowhere and you worked in a major market, managed, did ads, did finance, sold, trained salespeople to do it the right way.....and I know I can see a future for you in our organization. So.....I have a long term goal....management, I have a short term goal, to continue to impress, be positive, and be happy. Nobody wants to be around a guy with a black cloud over his head and certainly no customer would. For me, it was like riding a bicycle again... One last thing....would you stop PLEASE stop thinking I'm like sniffing friggen underwear, I want to cuss but I can't. What can I say, it is hard to put to text to vent... And by the way, she told me last evening that she is spotting blood again.....even post period. This isn't good, she is worried she may have an ovary problem again. When she was 12, she had half an ovary removed....and has only had this problem of MAJOR periods, hence the reason she went on birth control.....and now, even that isn't exactly working. She also said that her hormones feel screwed up. I didn't push the subject, I said I'm sorry to hear that, let me know if there is anything I can do to make you more comfortable. I offered to rub her back or feet and she said, YA, I'll take a foot massage... It lasted like 2 minutes and she said thanks.... Once again, I think which is dangerous, lol.....I think she may be about to or is going through the change. Her mom had a "historectomy"(sp?) at 39, and guess what, she is 38... One last thing, her mom is quite ill....she went to the emergency room.....and I am behind my wife 110%. bob P.S. Make it a great day! Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Hi Bob, I think you are finally getting the message we were trying to get across. Stay the path and things will work out for the best. You needed a boost of self-esteem and this job is doing it for you. Women are attracted to decision makers, confidence and pride, yet with a soft-touch. Whatever your wife decides to do, that is her decision. Keep us posted on how things are going Link to post Share on other sites
PUHLEEEEZE... Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Ok, Bob - I suppose I should have known better than to bring up the "laundry" issue. What I'm trying to say is, this whole situation is bad... just plain bad, and I don't think anything you do will make it right. It's not that you haven't tried -- I think you've gone way above and beyond what is humanly possible to "fix" it. I'm just trying to say that isn't it time for you to have some PEACE in your soul? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 2, 2004 Author Share Posted July 2, 2004 I've only pondered my future a couple times yesterday...mostly when I wasn't busy. I almost slipped into "poor me"....ie, disabled, wife, mom in law in the hospital, car accident, depression, future, etc....all things one could dwell on but using what I was taught on cognitive thinking; thought elimination, and thinking, positive as there is nothing I can do about it helped me pass over it. Sometimes, I just get all of a sudden an overwhelming thought of being ALL ALONE in the world, literally overwhelmed in several aspects to the degree it comes on all of a sudden, almost as a panic attack yet my heart doesn't race. If I had to describe it, panic attack is the closest thing to what I experience....BUT, before, I had nothing else to occupy my time and it was very, very hard to take things one day at a time. Now, I just focus on restructuring my career and work on short term goals and for now, leave long term goals on the back burner. I have to be myself before I can contemplate my future goals, wants, needs. I should as I was told by my doc to look at the bright side, I have a wonderful son, I have my health(so to speak)and am not a quad in a wheelchair, I have good credit, and compared to the whole of the world, many would nothing more to be in my shoes. He told me, go watch some show which I forget, I think it is on Discovery Channel, goes into the heart of Africa on some expedition??? Never bothered to look it up, perhaps it was a series on Nat'l Geographic. Point was, look what people endure daily to just live, just the basics, and they are happy to get dirty water to drink. He went on to enlighten me that based on fact, people of poor nations have a lower percentage of depression, suicide, and it is because we expect too much of ourselves and pound on ourselves when it comes to our own expectations??? Never knew that...he told me that yesterday evening when he called for my coaching session. I did pick up a new thought elimination technique, the psychologist wants me to get a big ole rubber band and when the thought comes into my head, SNAP the band and say NO/STOP....STOP. And then to do something completely different at that moment than I was doing. What gets me is EVERYONE around me at work is married, all the guys talk about their wives, one is having a baby, one is doing some project, and customers come in as a couple, one in particular got to me because they reminded me of us. No, I'm not digressing into it as I'm typing, I'm just sharing... Oh, and I spoke to my wife about laundry, she'll pick up doing her lights/whites/darks as well as mine, I'll still do ONLY sheets, towels, linens, comforters, wash cloths, dish towels....and things like that. THAT covers the future dealing with "reprocussion" from people thinking I'm like obsessed. Anyway, I said that I'd trade her chores, I'm taking on at least for the time being making the bed(s), cleaning toilet/shower/tub/sinks/bathroom floors and weekly fridge purge of old "stuff". Compromised...basically it takes the same amount of time, it is just trading responsibilities. BTW, I'm also not looking into what she says about moving out. She'd said since I was making money, she would start to look for an apartment. This was before I started day 2.... I let her go ON AND ON....that a.m. before starting work, my reply was that I wanted to contribute to the needs she has and that I understood and would help any way possible. After that, she started again on the "you don't understand" about something completely different. She said, "I think you don't get it, you think we'll just go on and on like this"....to that my reply was that I understood her feeling backed into a corner and said I'm always will try to understand what you said by listening better and I'm sorry for not letting your feelings be as understood as they could have been. I'll try harder.... And that was that... it was like a light switch; she stopped pestering me and actually was on a totally different subject, her STUPID garden which the deer keep getting to. This garden has been a THORN in my side....deer are cute but man they are distructive and nonproductive. I had to go buy whiskey barrels and put her plants in them. So if that wasn't enough, I just had to move them and with dirt in 'em, they are like 300 pounds. Oh well.....can't get away from the honey==do things. I happily moved them to the opposite side of the deck even though I wanted to say that I told you so. She had 'em in an area where the sun didn't give max exposure....but I kept my trap shut. I was so tired but I figured she took the time to make us chicken parm for dinner, that she put mine under the warming drawer so it would stay hot until I got home around 8:30pm and I thought that was nice of her. Sorry for the longer than needed post; just wanted to share that at least I think I've kind of filled a "need" I had inside and was focusing a missing need to yearn to work on something else, like her, and filling the missing need with OCD on fixing something that isn't fixable but only adaptable. In other words, making my entire career working on my situation over and over and over and over....dwelling while doing chores around the house, dwelling while mowing, and everything I did had a obsession aspect to it as it was my focus. I now see I actually made a career of dealing with my situation! Dumb huh.... Dr. Boutin, my psychologist kind of yelled at me, telling me I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR WIFE AND WHAT SHE IS DOING........I want to know about what you Bob are doing. Countless times, over and over...and even you Jeff telling me LET IT GO....I just couldn't. Destiny will be what it will be... See, I finally got it.....it took being away from home, away from the place where I was on prescription pain meds for so long to allow me to stand back and not dwell and recant my past but only to look at tomorrow....not next week, not last week. I know ladies are attracted to confidence, pride.....and I'll add to that, someone who is NOT unkept....i.e., stretchie shorts ... t shirt... and by winter sweats... long sleeve or t shirt.... to now back into shaving, VERY neat hair cut, nails trimmed, suit. I'll now admit, I worked on working out but still wore virtually the same thing every single day as I HAD, note HAD 10 pair of stretchie shorts....threw 5 pair out that had just been plain worn out, same with t shirts...... Well, I gotta go...she is going to cincinnati for the weekend, her mom is in the hospital, she doesn't want me to go drive with her over there, just her and our son. MAN it does bother me, I've loved her mom for the past 17 years like a MOM and now she lay still in a hospital with advanced diabetes, on dialasis(sp?), and now seemingly just had a stroke. I truly would like to go see her as she isn't doing well at all....hell, she is in critical care unit. But even though I want to see her, I respect my wife's twisted thinking of having me take care of the dog which easily could be done by putting him in a kennel or going with us. OH WELL...I say nuuuthing ..... bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Hi Bob, Glad to see you are moving on, but you also need to be heard when you want to be heard. If you wanted to see her mom, you could've asked or commented that you would like to see her. There's nothing wrong with that. Don't let her dictate your life. She still needs to respect the situation/relationship she is in with you. Just don't become her puppet, because she'll never regain respect for you. I know it's a fine line with certain things you are going through. Happy to hear the job is working out, if she honestly thinks she'll be more happier alone, then she might be in for a surprise. Perhaps the first few months might be nice to have some peace but things will get to her. Remember both of you did things that were wrong to each other, not just you. She doesn't see it that way, and only time will tell if she ever will. I certainly don't believe in splitting up to try to work out 'problems'. Only counciling and better communication skills, along with forgiveness & forgetfulness will help. Hang in there Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 I did communicate to her that I'd like to see her mom, she said that she was only going for the weekend and somebody needed to watch the dog. I believe since I was working, she thought that it might interfere....OR she wants me to make enough money so she can move out. I don't think it was because she just didn't want me to go with her. I felt a selfish reason for her not wanting me to go. EVERYTIME, I mean EVERYTIME that things don't go her way, she fights and then I'm in the poop house because all her negative emotions take the forefront and it ends up being a finger pointing session. Therefore, for the time being, I'm not going to push but rather let her have all the rope she wants and allow her to hang herself. "Happy to hear the job is working out, if she honestly thinks she'll be more happier alone, then she might be in for a surprise. Perhaps the first few months might be nice to have some peace but things will get to her. " Oh I agree totally...I totally agree that she'll know what it is like to live alone, it sucks. Let me reiterate, the only time she is explosive is when she is at work and calls me at home....berates me then goes right back to it when she gets home BUT, other than when she is on her period or a few days before, she is not doing those things, not screaming. She can't stand it when I'm not fighting back....I agree with her and she then can't fight back and it drives her nuts. She had been slamming doors, running around the house cleaning, screeching at our son, saying nobody else cares about anything but her. Weird.... Okay, she went to Cincinnati....I worked Friday, Saturday.....she must have called me 10 times to see what I was up to. Today she called me this a.m. to see what I was up to and just to say HI.....was the sweet Cathy I know....NOT the beast that she can be. I have gotten 3 calls.....all today, she has nothing to say but just calls. My doc and I spoke about my working, he was uneasy about it but said I must do what I feel best to feel better and only cautioned me to be doing this for myself and not to have false hopes over it. Jeff, you'd said the same thing.... see I told you you missed your calling!!! Anyway, here was an interesting thing my doc said......He told me that he is looking at the records of notes dating back to just after I stopped working......it was within MONTHS of stopped work that I was diving into the deep end of depression. And it has been 5 years since I stopped working, and 4 and a half years since I accused her of cheating....BUT, the key remark he made was that he said that in his notes, she said things were good as a couple when I worked and that I couldn't work so I"m picking on her. THAT WAS FROM THE LAST TIME....YEARS AGO. I said wow.....then I told him of how she was nasty and seemed to change since I've worked. He said that I shouldn't be banking on anything at this point and that she is dealing with things and don't look into anything she says or does as a sign of anything more than her being NORMAL. He said my marriage is like the bridge being redone in NYC, he said it is old like my marriage and even though it is safe to travel on, it isn't going to be repaired until all the steel is replaced. In that, those engineers aren't seeing a stronger bridge that is partially built back to its former self....it won't be 100% safe but will someday in time. But had it been left that way, it never would be safe unless something was done proactive. So as for work, I got promoted on Saturday.....I had wanted to either be a manager or be placed in Lexus/Mercedes. But what is bothering me about the "promotion" is that I like the guys/gals I'm working with now and especially like the managers I work with. I hate the jitters of having to show I can do it...... Should I stay put? OR go where I originally wanted to be? I won't lose my friendships....I won't lose my other things but will have the opportunity to make more. He, the VP of the corporation says that they are the #1 dealer for Lexus and they are building a specific showroom for the expansion of Lexus and he'd like to place me there to have me ready for this new expansion. OF all the franchises, Lexus people make far, far more than anyone else..... As for where I'm at, I have a cubicle which is crappy, I don't have anything but a phone and plastic chairs. I am making money though....I don't necessarily connect well with the salespeople as they are very much "used car" people, I am way, way overdressed compared to them. I do connect well with managers...all of 'em. I don't have much dealing with the salespeople.....whereas down at Lexus, they all are more my type. I'd like to have my "home" office down in Lexus and then "help" up the road in preowned. I have LOTS of product knowledge to learn, there is prestige in selling Lexus. Note I don't say Mercedes....they don't sell or act like people I could get along with. They are kinda stuck up... But Lexus people are more on par with what I had where I used to work as a manager, clients are very similar to my customers for Mazda. Yep, they are....maybe not nationally the same but where I worked before, we were a Mazda dealer in the heart of a area where people bought convertables, where the income was VERY high so consequently so were the class of people. Don't get me wrong, I had people who were making 15K a year and connected well with them, it wasn't that at all, I'm just saying that overall, the client base was "import" type people. Yet, not as stuck up as Mercedes/Jag/Hummer people. Any advice? My HEART is wanting to try Lexus....to build a client base.....whereas with used where I started you don't build a base like you do with new. While at Mazda, after the first year, I had repeat after repeat, referral after referral....and just kept building on that base. Oh, this is ironic, remember I had a car accident? The dealer they wanted to send the car to is where I now work....but I chose the local Mazda dealer......lol, kinda funny I thought. Well, enough of this, I have a house to clean....fun fun fun.... bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Hi Bob, If you want to try the Lexus Department, go for it. You have to do what makes you happy. Sounds like a cool opportunity. I'm sure things are going to go well for you there. It also gives her a chance to have some time by herself, which all women do. I don't know where she is getting 'she is the only one that cares about things' if what you say is true. Sounds like she is putting alot of pressure on herself. When a person tries to take so much control over everything, they put an enorumous amount of stress on themselves as well. She has to learn to give some of that up. Your Dr. is right about the bridge analogy, but I still think she needs counciling. She isn't dealing with her problems in the right way. As for her calling, I don't know what to make of that. If she has alot of highs & lows, then that could be a sign of depression. Stress can cause that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Guess I'm not depressed anymore....I don't have the highs and lows anymore...I'm c l e a r e r than I've been in eons. I once again feel productive, admired by peers, and am back in my element. It is nice to get compliments rather than condemnation....it is good not to do what I think but rather think what I do....in other words impulse is gone, stupid thinking is gone. I have an "occupation" which precludes irrational thinking and self pity. I don't know if you can tell by my text if I'm more .... ahh, how should I say less scattered? I agree with you on all those points...confusing whenever you try to make something of something you don't know, i.e., the phone calls. Yesterday, same thing....called to say hi with nothing to say. Oddly enough, the more I retract, the more she comes. I'm NOT getting hopes up, my inclination is to just wait, not be in her face, and let the cards fall where they may be. I'm a nice guy, I have a lot going for me.....Now I'm not saying nothing irrational but yesterday I sold a very nice lady, a pretty blonde girl and she is a secretary for the dept of corrections near Dallas, Pa--anyway we got to talking as she is going through a divorce and I mentioned we're possibly separating. She put her hand on my back and patted me, said....honey, it is touchy, it is tough, it is stressful but sometimes divorce is something that has to be. She was telling me that they just grew apart....then to a total surprise gave me her cell number and said lets go get a beer sometime as a friend and if you divorce, well...and then left it at that. What a sweetie....but the LAST thing I need is complications, I'm not going for a beer, I've explained to her that I want to give this all I have, to show I'm different. She observed something .... she said stop trying, she said had her soon to be X had stopped trying sooner, and gone to counseling, they'd most likely be together. She said that he tried, then gave up and dated someone else and rubbed it in her face and that ENDED it. She suggested I give space, have a friend like her ONLY as a friend, tell my wife, don't hide ANY friendship with a female. I told her my core values and she said I'm rare. Anyway, so I made a friend and customer.....lol. By the way, she bought a lexus... thank you for all your help...I have not abandoned ship....I work from 8:30 to around 8pm daily.....nature of the business and thus far anyway, I'm able to handle it. I'm like the apple of the eye of the VP of the company....My self confidence and cocky walk is back. Not cocky with customers...with them, my core value is simple, I can replace the car but not the customer....and I do everything I can to make them happy.....uhhh that is except date 'em.... Be good and make today a great day. Any advice of anything I should do with my wife? SHE has not mentioned selling the house or moving out still....WEIRD...but I'm not looking into it anymore than face value. Oh, that lady said, perhaps she wanted me to go to work??? She said women look for stability in men. Men are the foundation, ladies do the other stuff....it was something like that, but quite profound. I can't take this lady's advice literally as she didn't reconnect her marriage.....after all, she said there was infedelity on his part and she isn't into that. bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Hi Bob, It's always nice to be flattered, but you did the right thing by not going out with her. If you mention anything to your wife, I wouldn't go into details about it. Just say you sold another car. Otherwise she'll get defensive. Now is not the time to make another jealous. All it does is push the other away in the long run. Just keep doing the day to day things, at some point SHE will have to decide on what she wants to do. Unless you had enough of sitting idle and give her an ultamium, which will probably make her do the opposite of what you want done. Personally she can't keep sitting on the fence. But if things are going good for now, just go with the flow. Don't live your life for your wife. I don't think she wants that either. Though if you do seperate you have every right to see what else is out there. Either she wants you & wants to work it out, or not. I hope she makes some sort of decision soon, for the sake of all of you. Glad to hear things are going well. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 Originally posted by jmargel Hi Bob, It's always nice to be flattered, but you did the right thing by not going out with her. If you mention anything to your wife, I wouldn't go into details about it. Just say you sold another car. Otherwise she'll get defensive. Now is not the time to make another jealous. All it does is push the other away in the long run. Just keep doing the day to day things, at some point SHE will have to decide on what she wants to do. Unless you had enough of sitting idle and give her an ultamium, which will probably make her do the opposite of what you want done. Personally she can't keep sitting on the fence. But if things are going good for now, just go with the flow. Don't live your life for your wife. I don't think she wants that either. Though if you do seperate you have every right to see what else is out there. Either she wants you & wants to work it out, or not. I hope she makes some sort of decision soon, for the sake of all of you. Glad to hear things are going well. I know NOT to go out w/her, I also know DEFINITELY not to mention anything to Cathy; she would definitely blow things out of proportion OR backfire and say good, go ahead and why not date her; all out of spite. Yesterday, I came home late as usual; late as in almost 9pm....she was real nice, not the least bit bewildered like she was....it seems as if her face no longer shows frustration?? Seems "more" like the Cathy I know..but anyway, I'm not looking into it further than I should. She did say, "why don't you buy me a new Honda Accord coupe"...silver with chrome rims..." Now where did that come from? She WAS talking about separating bills, and stuff like that....certainly not doing this. She was kind of serious too....the Xterra she has is an '02 and has 2 pending recalls on it maybe that was some of the motivation?? Could it be possible a great deal of this MESS is she felt cramped inside because she had the burden of all the bills and I was on a SET disability income which offered no flex to work overtime....and if we wanted more money, she had to work OT...? By the way, I had shared with her a while back that THE single reason I most wanted to work was to show her I am serious about becoming the successful man she knew, in that, also being the man that is providing for his family and that I'm doing this just as much for her as I am me....to help eliminate debts, to enable us to be more comfortable. I did have tears when I said it....I told her, ya know I'd love to tell you that I'm doing this so you can move on....so I can keep the house myself but that isn't the truth......and went on to say about the problems we have all stem from the time I became unable to work. As for her "decision"....hey, I don't care at this point if we're roommates. It doesn't bother me anymore as I don't have time to worry about what she is thinking, what she is doing, what her and her boss are up to, or anything of the sort. If today were day ONE of repair, so be it.... I'm telling you she is treating me with more respect... My mom.....I know, I know don't listen.. she said that Cathy seemed like she was empowered as a person better than I was when we were down visiting, she said Cathy seemed cocky, seemed devoid of anxiety and was seemingly acting as if she were better than the rest of us. And I tell you, my mom went on to say she is making more than anyone in her family....anyone ever. Cathy is the only one to ever go to college, the only one to now be manager of a department....See, not being crass but I come from a very wealthy family, she comes from a low middle class family. She'd always kind of jealous that my parents are so well off and don't share a penny with their children....I mean NONE. Just the way they are... Anyway, now Cathy all of a sudden isn't just a nurse, she is a manager, making important decisions and here was Bob.....a fixture sitting around doing nothing but complaining, being depressed, ON DRUGS, and not standing up for myself in a "chin up" sorta way. Everything was disabled this, disabled that, I hurt here, I hurt there, I miss working, I miss .... ON AND ON... And now, I don't say a peep about IF I have a headache which I have a POUNDER this a.m.....but you know what Jeff, that is the way it is, I have a headache, am I gonna sink into self pity, NOPE, I'm going to go to work, eat a 800mg ibuprophen and live with it. I don't know how much merit my family's opinion is but she did seem like she was on her high horse and kind of is being knocked off as I've made as much in one week as she does in a month. PLEASE, PLEASE don't take that wrong....PLEASE I have worked VERY hard, as in from last wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday, monday, tuesday, wednesday from 8am to coming home around 9pm....except saturday when I was home around 6... Another thing was I'm VERY good as far as people person thingy goes, I look at people on equal ground no matter what and have the opinion, I can replace the car, but not the customer... By the way, I just sold a Toyota 4 Runner to a guy over your way.....he is an IT guy who makes programs for teachers to be able to plug in assignments. He programs and lives in Danville....I forget where he said he works but his name is Mike. Know him? Probably not... So anyway, I'm going with the flow...My doctor called me last week...in conversation I said she seems so screwed up when she is around her period time. He asked if she is running hot and cold.....I said YEP..one minute she is hot as a fire cracker, the next putting on winter pajamas. All she said was hmmmmmm. Take care, and thanks. Maybe in a couple weeks you can email her.....I know she reads 'em. If nothing else, she knows I'm being counseled by someone other than my doc. You two for the most part are on the same page...except he isn't getting as much day to day info as you are, he is only saying to live life for myself and stop listening to mommy and stop obsessing on the what IF....look at today and today only and don't be a psychologist. I did get the guts to try working thanks to your helping me deal with this all.....go ahead, take credit for that. bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Hi Bob, Glad I am able to help you. Whatever you do, don't buy your wife that new car. You need to know in your mind & soul that if she's going to stay and try to work things out, it's because she wants to. Not because you keep buying her things to stay. Right now she is starting to get the time she needs to think things through. That's why she probably hasn't mentioned about leaving, etc. Like I said before just keep doing things the way you are doing them, you are now on the right track. If something is bothering you, you have every right to tell her. Remember a relationship is 100/100, and if she wants to be a part of it, she needs to be a part of it during the good times and when you aren't feeling the greatest. Remember also not to over do it. Don't live your life just for her. When you hear her talk about the 'future' or about buying things together, tell her you are confused and want to understand where things are. If she is serious about trying to keep things together then it is a 'must' that she go to counciling with you. Otherwise the same problems will resurface again. I can guarantee that. When women get on their PMS cycle, they are like Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde. My fiancee is the same way. She hates the world and gets extremely depressed. Yea, it's hard for us guys to put up with that but I would imagine it's 10 times worse for the woman to actually go through it. I guess there is probably some sort of meds out there to allivate it. I want my fiancee to get on the depo shot. It eliminates that & the period thing all together. Never heard of that 'Mike', IT jobs in my area are hard to come by. The place I'm at now is pretty good. I was the IT Director for Union County for 5 1/2 years until politics reared it's ugly head. I work for a small company which is doing really good. They took us on a cruise last year, and looks like another one this January, so I can't complain. The pay sucks, but we get by. Anyway, hang in there Time has a way of sorting things out, it's just times like these where you need the most patience. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 I hadn't planned on getting her the new vehicle...I just thought it odd that she say that....IF we should work things out, October is anniversary so I'd at least consider it then...but I won't count on anything nor take anything as a sign or receipt of things working out. Nothing is bothering me, so long as I don't get my a$$ ripped out for nothing, I'm cool with her sorting out her own life while living under the same roof. I'm also not counting on her staying, the way I look at it and it might sound cocky but she'll stand to lose a darn good man....one that has done a 360 in attitude, one that has obviously always been faithful, and one that has loved her fat, skinny, whatever....therefore, now that I'm out of the house and on the mend psychologically, whatever comes my way will be and I cannot "control" anything but my own future. She must be really, really now thinking and going through a period where she can't believe what she is seeing because she said she has not been able to sleep for the past week, last night included. Remember, she is sleeping in the spare bedroom but has not moved her stuff in there....almost as if night by night she is in a hotel room. By day all her stuff comes back to the master br....and then at bedtime, she goes right back. All her jewelry is still in her nightstand in the bedroom, she goes over to it each evening and deposits the jewelry which I kind of find odd since she would be easily able to just use the one in the spare bedroom.....aka "her" bedroom. I'm kind of in disagreement on things resurfacing...here is my point, should our future include staying together, we'll certainly have a talk. We'll agree that we need to communicate better....that is for sure but please understand that I became disabled and lost my career in June of '99, it was since then that I acted out, had meds screwed up, accused her before of an affair which resulted in a similar but not so harsh struggle. When we first married, things sucked because we were both broke, had old crappy things...not materialistic but crappy as in we couldn't buy good food....was more like generic, family pack meat, etc....and I can remember we bought a VCR and it was like a major purchase. Then we struggled with me working my butt off to provide and continued to excel in my career in the car business. Just before the accident, I was promoted to NC mgr....She had graduated and we were on the high road to finally being able to enjoy life's little things like you do. We had a little house that was a home...we had plenty of time together, did LOTS of dates....and things were tranquil. I had surgery in May of '98....and slowly couldn't function, became depressed, and eventually lost my career. So here we are in Pa....we had saved plenty and it dwindled over the past year and a half.....being depressed, I admit that I bought things on credit to be happy. It gave me momentary happiness....but the stupid thing I did was continue the debt building. I didn't realize; she had written a letter to me asking me to stop......said very nicely that we can work things out, she could work overtime, she would do this and that and we'd stop the spiral as she put it in the letter....and then ended it with I love you, lets work together. NOPE---a hole here didn't, couldn't, felt for some reason which I now cannot rationalize why but kept on keepin' on my buying spree until we had revolving debt. You combine that with frustration of ME doing that and being a jerk, not doing house work, her THEN being promoted, having added stress, lack of communication as I was on drugs from the doctor. Combine that to a PINACLE of accusing once again of infedelity.....and being a REALLY, REALLY bad a hole about it all. Then going into a decision to STOP, to learn what was causing my problems, to finally realize things were messed up. This was in Jan..I still continued the morpine...but knew things weren't kosher...and finally in Feb, there went the rest of the collapse. Over time, I detoxed and had such a FALL to the bottom....I mean a fall like where you literally doubt if you wanted life or death. Hence the reason I went to Florida for help.......and then suffered with idiots up here who even though I told 'em I was coming off morphine changed my psyc meds, told me to "ask" my wife the status of our marriage.....and just screwed up things. I slowly became familiar with things I used to do but the real realization was I wanted to work, I had a HUGE gap which was devoid of drugs and my wife and of love and of just plain boring... Then I met you....I continued with you and my doc in florida coaching me, helping me to understand, helping beyond those feelings and getting me to the point of now where I'm happy, confident, and focusing not on her but my career. Yesterday, I don't know if I mentioned it but I was supposed to go to Lexus dept...but I was told by the VP of the corporation that he wanted me to stay where I'm at, working side by side with him......and he said and I quote...."i want you to stay here selling, besides I'll tell you you won't be selling for long anyway".... as in being promoted to mgt fairly soon. BOOM---another euphoric high "O" naturale... Last evening, I came home around 8:45pm and she'd already gone to bed... I wouldn't know how to get her to counseling.....except to go to florida.....and see Dr. Boutin, she had said that is a possiblity before. She thinks of him as a "master" in his field which he is but there are others too but she is stuck on him since he has been such a repairman before and her knowing he rips my a$$. By the way, he said yesterday to keep up the good work, he is proud of me and DON'T under any circumstances MENTION ANYTHING TO HER ABOUT OUR STATUS. He'd initially said to wait 6 months.....but he said yesterday, evidently 6 months isn't long enough.....that I stagnated still and didn't do a big change, I still flailed like a fish trying to breathe in a 3" bucket. That I finally passed the point of that and am now SHOWING and not saying all the things I was going to do. See, one of the things I'd said to her was I wanted to work after the detox.....I said lots of changes I'd do and would show her. She I KNOW didn't believe it....There were several things she didn't believe, cathy for all purposes didn't see a change, only a trying to change.....she said, ya you are on good behavior because you know it is too late but you have not changed, you're only trying to be better and I know you.......you've done this before. BUT Jeff, I didn't go back to work, didn't stop obsessing.....I can see that in retrospect. Well pal, I gotta scoot...time for work. She is off this weekend, it is our son's birthday.... What little thing can I do? I>E...flowers, a card, saying something, compliment, what? I did compliment her this a.m. saying she looked good. Well off to the grind of the day, I'm planning on leaving at 5pm today.....I'll check when I get home. BTW, we have WIFI at work, I wonder if I can use my laptop with 2.4 gig WIFI 802.11b....it finds the network but I don't have admin privlidges??? Lastly, I can offer INVOICE price to friends and relatives on any make or model should you need something.....I swear, swear, swear I owe you and I'd hook you up if EVER you need something. Have a great weekend.... bob Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 We got up and were nice and all of a sudden she says...."guess you can afford the house all on your own".. I'm telling you, we were completely civil, no fighting, nothing...it came out of the blue, we were enjoying the morning on the deck together, reading the paper, talking, laughing....then BOOM. She then went on to say she hated it in the little bedroom, feels trapped here, and I don't care.....(I simply want to get established at my job, pay off a couple bills).....and as far as she was concerned had I not taken a job, she would have said the heck with all the bills. Cathy then said she told me that she can't get over what I did in Feb....she has tried but can't. I said that I've done everything I said I'd do to change....and as you may know I have. She said I have tried tactics to keep her there as in our son, bills, etc. All I said in return was that SURE I said our son should come into the picture and not just me, he is going into his senior year and it should be a happy memorable time......and besides, I understand how you feel, I understand that you are still pissed and you see living by yourself as the only way to cope. And as for bills....well, they are mutually our responsibility to the folks we accepted them from, NOT to walk away, you don't do that, you can't do that.....and if you do, you are so wrong. I tried changing subjects.... The root of her anger is identical to the beginning in Feb...I embarrassed her to her boss, she can't get over the ill feeling she has for me, and all I said in return was that I was so doped up, all I can say is I'm sorry. I went on... I said if you remember, I have a brain injury which I now have meds for clarity.....before I had morphine....hallucinations, paranoia.... (I DIDN'T say besides you put newly purchased white laced high heels in your luggage in Feb during a snow storm.....and that she knows fashion)---- I didn't mention the fact she didn't tell me... I figure why rehash... She stormed out of the house for two hours and came home..... Just another day in the life of me.... I know without counseling, I can now see nothing will go anywhere, I suggested it again and she said "what damn good will that do".... bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Hi Bob, I don't get to reply on weekends. When she mentions 'what damn good will that do', tell her it will do alot. It will bring up things that might be hard to fanthom now, which will get to the root of the problem. It's been 5 months since that incident in February. I believe there is something else to the situation. I'm not sure what she wants from you. You can't take back what happened then, just like she can't take back the things she said to you in the past. Talk to her about counciling, in that it will allow her to discuss and deal with the situations that happened in the past. Doing that will allow her to then put that behind her and focus on the future. Whether the future would be with you or not, it'll allow the both of you to think ahead. Dwelling on the past will do nothing but have negative effects. But she hasn't dealt with it accordingly, which is letting her fester on it. This job, make sure she knows you are doing this for the both of you. That you aren't doing it just so you can keep the house if she moves out. Apparently she is holding alot of resentment for some reason or another. For her to hold this much hositility over one incident, 5 months ago seems a little overboard. I would again ask the both of you to write down what is bothering each of you, and then go over the list one by one. It's hard to guess why she is feeling the way she is at times. Hang in there And thanks for the offer regarding the vechile. You are going to continue to have this rollar coaster, regarding your relationship until both of you can settle things. That's what counciling will do. To deal with issues in a constructive way so you don't have these kind of days. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 In reply to what she is "over"...she said since the Feb incident, I've still not trusted her...I've still "checked up on her" and she said this was just the end when I did what I did in Feb....Truth is, I let go but was suspicious because of the suspicion placed by her AND she was so stand offish and not acting as she has before when mad that she gave me reason to wonder. However, it has been months since I was checking up...but she looks for anything which can be construed as checking up. I can't call her, otherwise that is checking, I can't ask what time she'll be home; even if it is so I could plan dinner, I couldn't do anything! She did things on purpose too like add fuel to the fire such as not telling me where she has a trip to, where in the heck even the state is she is going no less the city, no less the hotel. Also, she just constantly berates me as if she thinks she is better than me...meaning of that is simple, she is harboring resentment. In her words, a long, long pent up resentment of my having to know where she is, what she is doing, etc.....I don't think I was overboard but then again, I care, darn it, I didn't ask because I wanted to know for possessive reasons, I asked because of caring reasons. And another thing, she brings up crap from literally the first year of marriage and all the years in between....countless things to make ME feel like crap, countless things to bring me down, countless rage that is like held inside and now is bursting at the seams. But..what have I done wrong? By 90% of the population who has stayed married, we were less than average on fighting, more than average on possessiveness on BOTH accounts. For example, in Florida, they did these off site sales in various cities in florida, all the mgt, sales people stayed the weekend in hotels and went out partying at night. I REFUSED to go, I stayed with my family, I worked the store and damn if it didn't cause me heat. I would do things for her like few would do, I took our child to work, picked him up and dropped him at school while on the job, and went home several times a day to check on the dogs......ALL so she could take multiple classes, and then do her clinicals QUICKLY....and ultimately she was able to get a higher degree in a shorter time, she was also provided a new vehicle which I paid for, I worked like 70-80-plus hours per week to save money so we'd have a future together once she finished school. And what happened???? Well in short, I was driving home with the family from a skiing trip and we were pounded by an RV....and the kicker is I was driver and SWERVED so on purpose we wouldn't be hit dead center in the rear of the car...HAD I not done that, it would have been almost definite that she would have been injured, our son injured or worse, and I would have possibly been injured but certainly not as severely I presume. Reason was I allowed the RV to hit my side on the rear and I literally had a bent seat from the impact which crunched the rear on my side and closed every seam where each door on the driver side became one big creased closed section. You couldn't have fit a credit card in between the seams, it was that bad. And I got disabled after still working and trying HARD TO WORK for a year post accident....ultimately had surgery, placed on disbility and she spread her wings and worked up the ranks of nurses. I've seen a change in her that nobody can quite get.....She is TOTALLY different since losing weight....I mean totally. She doesn't care seemingly about any of us, she almost provokes me to cry by telling me what a piece of s I am....all the while when on the phone, she is LAUGHING, carrying on, and without me saying a word, our son said she seems like she wants to disown being a family and be single. This came from a 17 year old kid who can think for himself......constantly I battle with him to stop being nasty, even he is suspicious, I don't have to even ask him what is wrong, I can even see it in his eyes after she yells at him for no apparent reason. However, it does seem as though one day she felt like OKAY, Bryan you are an adult now, POOF, you are done .... now you can be a man, but she doesn't treat him nor accept his feelings as they parrallel in similarity with mine therefore IT MUST BE MY IDEA. She and her son have separated far worse than I could have imagined. He told her blunt that he under no circumstances wants to live with her. They literally didn't talk for 4 hours I was told on their trip back from Ohio visiting her ill mom.....and he other than having grandma being sick didn't want to go because he didn't want to spend the time in the car alone with her as all she does is yell at him. Literally, I mean literally over the course of 6-8 months, she has driven her son so far away from him, he is almost a latch key on me. I can't even go to bed without him wanting to come in and watch tv with me.....and TRUST ME, I don't turn him away, I don't say a word and like today, I made it a point to come home early because he called me saying he missed me and had a headache. So what did I do? Like a responsible parent, I planned out my appointments for the next day, rearranged one appointment I had for this evening and came home, and I have made dinner and it is in the oven baking. I had him shower, I meanwhile walked the dog for him, and picked up around the house which is his chore. Kids don't necessarily need material things, they just need to know someone is there for them when they need them to be and Cathy CERTAINLY by no stretch cares. He said he called "mom" at work when he called me and said she said "so what do you want me to do about your headache" and said "hello---are you going to talk or just breathe into the phone" I'm busy----uh, I gotta go.... Ya, I'm pissed...I don't think bryan deserves this treatment since he is innocent. Sure, he feels like mom is abandoning him but over and over and over until I've been blue in the face have I told him that she is just under stress at work......and by the way, we don't fight in front of him so he had no idea that things were so bad until she said she was moving out. She "assumed" he knew because she thought I was telling him things which I wouldn't since they didn't involve him, they were none of his business. But because he said things to her that were semi parrallel with comments I'd made in the past about her focusing on her blossoming career and leaving home go "south", she "assumed" wrong. I've had to have countless talks with him, to quote him he was completely "shocked" when mom said she was going to do a trial separation with dad and that dad agreed with it. He came to me crying.... Jeff, I just don't know, I just don't know what is bothering her so much. MANY people would love to have our lives....we all have our health, we have good credit, a good home, nice cars, friends, and plenty to eat. We can even go back to Xmas when she said it was the best Xmas ever.....I remember that exact phrase. I'll say this....IF she moves out and has someone else...I'm not saying she does, she could just be going through the change or is mentally ill....but IF after what she has done is all caused by a MR.........then I could only assume he has been pressuring her to leave her family and then I won't even state what will happen as then it would be presumed premeditated. Jeff, I'm venting....just venting. Truly, my "list" of things IF we each wrote them down would be simple.....I just want to have my wife back, is that too much to ask? I don't care who did what, when I did this, she did that, I can't go back in time so why even look at that? What I'd do is "list" the things I'd like to see her do such as become a mother again, not just this lady who comes home and occasionally when pressed hugs her son. I'd like to see her be responsible and responsive to his need for a mom. IF she did that, I would be hard pressed to ask for anything more.... Oh....she even has been disrespecting my doctor in florida who knows her and was on her side....!!! Ya, she disrespected him even saying he doesn't know this and that. He does know....he isn't stupid even though not a marriage counselor, he does know. It is all common sense... 85% of my wanting to work is for both of us to enjoy life, to allow me to be happy.....to pay for upcoming college for our son and for all purposes, be responsible which I had only been a father figure not someone who would be proud all the time but at least I'd listen and help with homework even when I was on morphine... 15% is my wants and needs, you know, the selfish reasons for wanting her back as in love, passion, etc. but I could settle for just being friends still. HOW do you get someone like the above to listen? Something has to drastically change in order for her to contemplate changing her emotional state. For her, leaving me will solve her problems...... By the way, I was so screwed up today, I couldn't focus on my job, I was brain f***ed.....I cried thinking how mean she is being. No I'm not depressed...No not anything but hurt. I know not to listen to what she says in anger as truth but one can only be pounded on for so long and not have any sink in as being gospel. Again, I've changed, I've realized I can be productive, I can continue finally with my career, I can balance work and home life, and things could be better than ever for me if I had the only love of my life back. After 17 years, I love her more than life itself, I've thought and thought about it, I've tried to dislike her like she does me but to no avail.....other than her coming up to me and saying I am in love with so in so and not you, I'd say I could take anything. She'd never EVER tell me if there was someone else as she knows my strength and temper when it comes to being dishonest. I call what I have strength in GOOD core values of being a person who loves, honors and cherishes.....and I might add in sickness and in health. I wouldn't have left her..... I didn't leave when she was fat, when she was sick to the point of almost dying from an infection of the brain, I RAN to her when she cried, I ran to her side when she was hurting, I ran to her whenever she needed anything.....hell, I even stepped up when her father died and I took care of her mother's house, did all her mom's needs, fixed her mom's house, PAID her mom's bills when she had problems.....and yes, I also have her mom saying I'm the best thing for her, she told me that she feels I'm more of a son than a son in law.... FYI...speaking of her mom, I got her son who was not speaking with her mother for over 2 years to come over, for them to speak and for them to hug. and now they are friends..... Also, she has 4 brothers.....3 of them have been married and divorced over and over and over and over.....only my wife and her eldest brother are on marriage #1. When I say over and over, I mean as in 4 and 5 marriages, one time one brother divorced and the X married another brother. They've got a few bolts loose or something.....I call it lack of will to continue to commit, like you say, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. What I have inside after being berated is low self esteem to think HOW will I ever meet someone, date....I wouldn't even know where to go, or what to say. I'm really scared at the thought of being alone as I can't see myself with another woman, I just can't see myself dating..... Sorry for the long poured out drama.... bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Hi Bob, I was in the same boat as you with my now ex-fiancee. It would start with little comments, and then it grew over time. It got to the point where she would say 'Eat **** and die', and constantly giving me back the engagement ring everytime something wasn't right. I was walking on eggshells, pondering everyday what could I do to make things good again. She ended up leaving me for my now ex-best friend of 15 years. After she left I took on alot of guilt, because I thought the things she was telling me was true. How I screwed up, etc.. It took me 6 months of no contact with her to realize that it wasn't my fault. Yea, I could have done some things better, but she had alot of growing up to do. That a relationship is 100/100 on each side. She wasn't loving me like she should have, so I reacted by pulling away. That was the only way to avoid conflicts. She had an abusive past, and sometimes when you are with someone who's been abused, they lash out on the ones closest to them. Three years passed by before she came and apologized for everything she did. It still has an effect on me in alot of ways, especially with some insecurity issues. My current fiancee has been very patient with me regarding that. What I am trying to get here is that your wife is not acting like one. She is emotionally and verbally abusing you. This is just as bad as physical abuse. Right now you are doing all the 'doing' in the relationship. If she is going to act like a baby and become this way, then the best thing to do is ignore her. The only way to beat her at this little game of hers, is to not play. Bob there is a time where you need to tell her enough is enough. This has been going on for months. It's time for her to make a decision on what she is going to do, because not making one will destroy all your self-worth. Either she changes her attitude about the relationship and her son, or let you go so you can move on to other things. I know what you mean about other women wanting to go out, etc.. When my ex left, I didn't date for over a year. I put myself down quite a bit during that time. Thinking she was the only one for me, and the abuse I got I somehow deserved it. It was actually when we went shopping together and I saw a couple in front of us holding hands, smiling that I knew then we just grew apart. That what she had me going through is not a healthy relationship. That what that couple was doing, we haven't done in about a year. I am now engaged, and getting married next month. We were best friends for a year before. So it does work out in the end for most people. If you two were to seperate, you can't dwell on the bad things, but realize this was a big learning experience for you. Life is, in general. You really need to put your foot down and force her to either face the issues or to leave. This is what is causing all your mental anguish. She is putting you through this torture because she knows she can. That you'll stay around and take as much punishment as she can dish out. It's time for this to stop. You really need to do this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 The one difference is there is a boy of 17 years old involved, they carry guilt no matter what and I'm trying because he doesn't want mom to leave. I really want him to be able to enjoy his last year of school even though what I know to be the best. No matter what, I know she is going to move out, it is a question of just when.... Gotta go to work, going in later today...I'll reply tonight. Sorry to hear you've gone through what I am now...it really sucks BAD. And on top of it all I still have friggen headaches and a mental disability which just further complicates my rational side to be able to cope. The thought of suicide crossed my mind...just crossed....but I know I'm too chicken to do it which is a good thing. Besides, I have too many people to piss off before I go naturally...but it is this kind of irrational thought that has me on meds....Normal people take things and rationalize, I take things to the nth degree. I have a wide swing in my rationalization and I must stop, step back, say okay this is stupid, and use cognitive thinking to eliminate. I'm scared, really scared.... bob Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 13, 2004 Author Share Posted July 13, 2004 I think I need help in dealing with this, I am still wanting to have something that won't work as in my marriage...... How can I change her mind? I don't think it is for another man, she says over and over that she wants freedom but I've given her the freedom to do as she pleases but she has it in her head that moving out and being alone is the solution, therefore, SHE I believe must move out. She once said that if I moved out for a while she could deal with that. I wanted to seek help, other than my long distance help from my doc who I don't get to talk to enough. You've been great and an asset to helping me. I just feel you don't have the time to devote to helping....and I don't wanna burden you with daily details as I feel bad, especially since you went through a similar thing and I don't want you to digress from your good luck and think you aren't able to help. Hope that makes sense... Responsible is what I'm trying to be yet give space.....See, the episode Sunday was kind of provoked because she feels I'm able to handle all the bills now and said I could handle the mtg...but said I'm trying to keep her here so she can be miserable and feels I'm doing it on purpose to cause her stress....which I'm not. I'm thinking of our son, nothing more..... For now I've been told to NOT talk back, my doc today said she is yelling because I'm being combative and that is NOT the right way to be. He said sometimes a year of living like this being friends has to be made and as you said until 100/100 is achieved, things will stagnate. He felt she is scared, and finds solice in thinking being separated will liven up her life. If she were cheating, she would then have thrown it all away long ago to be with her new man. IF she is being pressured by another man, it isn't likely she'd not want to date others.....and wouldn't say she wanted to not sign a lease....she would have done more sneaky things not do what she is doing. He said she probably is pissed still because I was still leary of her....that life is choices and her choice to have time apart can't happen and she is frustrated and blaming ME for it...not our situation but moreso thinking I'm keeping her here. My problem, ya it is a problem is that I don't believe in separation, heck I don't believe in divorce...... Someone at work told me that I better watch out that someday out of the blue I'd come home to a restraining order against me. He said all she'd have to do is call 911 and say I'm abusing her and I'd be out. He said if she wants out, it is better to let her go......and then find resolve in the fact she is leaving a perfectly good man. For me not to feed into her negativity because what she says is MEANT to hurt....certainly not meant to be nice. O h well... I'm told to NEVER mention sweetie, beautiful, or anything that might fire her up. But do daily things like show continually I can accept her feelings and understand her frustration. Dr. Boutin also said that in his experience, divorce can be looked at like this...... Which would I prefer....be divorced or separated and work on problems and get together OR BE together and be married and miserable? I said separated and show her respect and get together. He said people take the piece of paper as something and think what it means....it means commitment. If both are not committed, the paper is worthless but if two are living together, they are committed even though not married committed to a relationship. Only time and patience and not feeding into fights will help. If I love her, let her go.......if she comes back, then and only then will her will to patch things up begin. But....I'm still working on being better, I sure wish I could do more showing and have her see in my heart I do care. bob bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Bob it is a scary time for you, and I don't mind listening and replying to the best of my abilities. The things that happened to me with my ex are in the past. I've forgiven her and we both learned & moved on. As for your situation, perhaps Cathy just needs the OK to leave. Talk to her tonight, tell her that if she is so miserable and she really wants out, then she can go without hard feelings. As for your son, it is a hard time, but it's going to be a hard time whether she is there or not. Just by the way he is being treated by her is doing more damage than her not being there. He's relying on you, which is good. Don't be afraid to rely on him either, it'll show him he's not alone in this. Like your Dr. said it takes two to make a relationship work. She is not putting her heart into it. She is there in the house, in body, but not in mind, heart & soul. Sometimes things are better to look & think about then to actually have. It might take her to be alone, to have no one around to see that her perception of freedom is going to cost her alot. The head games must really stop, it's affecting you quite a bit. She might not see it, because she is wrapped up in her own problems. Going to counciling will unravel all of the confusion in both your heads. But, she has to be willing to go through it. You could call the counciling center again, and ask for another councilor if Carolyn is too busy. From what I understand, all of them are pretty good. Personally I would write her a letter, tell her everything that is on your mind. At the end of the letter, let her know that she is free to go if that is what her wish is. That you can't make her love you, or want to be with you. That the decision lies with her. Let her know that you are willing to work on things and do whatever it takes, but that there needs to be a common ground on where you both stand regarding you two. Remember even if she does move out, that doesn't make it permanant. Hang in there.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 She is doing things to demotivate me.....for example, she said IF she feels better, she is going to go out Friday. Didn't specify where as I didn't ask.... Not a test, a will she has is to go out......feel freedom Feel I guess free However, I'm not going to stoop that low......even if it is innocent, I'm not going to do it. I could go out on a date if I wanted....The problem is I'm nervous about it, I'm nervous about taking the next step. I feel still a duty to my commitment even though it isn't present, I still have the vow. That vow is important to me and I'd feel I broke the bond if I did. And I don't want guilt. My ring stays put until I divorce...... Whatever she does, if she does anything, she will be the sinner and ultimately have to face god, and face breaking the commandments, and break the sacred bond of marriage, NOT ME. I "had" tried to stop Zyprexa which is a mood stabilizer......and it kind of screwed me up a couple days. I tried to stop because there is a link between that and pancreatic problems. I take such a low dose that I don't think I'd have problems.....but I did learn that I can't stop it, it helps bi polar and mood stability and I've learned I stay happy and motivated while on it along with effexor, an SSRI....seratonin reuptake inhibitor, and xanax bob Link to post Share on other sites
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